I want a Lamborghini

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El Guapo
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by El Guapo »

Not that I think that there is anything to this, *but* it's not exactly a surprise that the ranking democrats on the committee (who do not, of course, control the committee, since they're the minority party) have concluded that there is nothing to support the majority's investigation. It would be news if the ranking Republicans say that, of course.

Also, it seems dubious for the Energy and Commerce committee to be exercising jurisdiction here.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by LawBeefaroni »

El Guapo wrote: Also, it seems dubious for the Energy and Commerce committee to be exercising jurisdiction here.
I don't know, they routinely deal with public health and health services and consumer protection. And darned if I can't think of another House committee that would be a better fit.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by Isgrimnur »

Surely the Judiciary Committee has some paper-thin justification for theirs.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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Isgrimnur wrote:Surely the Judiciary Committee has some paper-thin justification for theirs.
On the Senate side, sure. It's their hearing at any rate. Of course the Senate does have a Health and Education committee, right?
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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El Guapo wrote:Not that I think that there is anything to this, *but* it's not exactly a surprise that the ranking democrats on the committee (who do not, of course, control the committee, since they're the minority party) have concluded that there is nothing to support the majority's investigation. It would be news if the ranking Republicans say that, of course.
Perhaps the telling part is that the Republicans are not speaking out. So while they are not making the claims, they are allowing them to be made. Which may be a way for them to save a bit of face...

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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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El Guapo wrote:Not that I think that there is anything to this, *but* it's not exactly a surprise that the ranking democrats on the committee (who do not, of course, control the committee, since they're the minority party) have concluded that there is nothing to support the majority's investigation. It would be news if the ranking Republicans say that, of course.

Also, it seems dubious for the Energy and Commerce committee to be exercising jurisdiction here.
You don't think that Democrats would want to act if actual evidence of wrong doing was found?
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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GreenGoo wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Not that I think that there is anything to this, *but* it's not exactly a surprise that the ranking democrats on the committee (who do not, of course, control the committee, since they're the minority party) have concluded that there is nothing to support the majority's investigation. It would be news if the ranking Republicans say that, of course.

Also, it seems dubious for the Energy and Commerce committee to be exercising jurisdiction here.
You don't think that Democrats would want to act if actual evidence of wrong doing was found?
I certainly don't. Just look at the Hillary e-mail situation. Never has there been a more concrete example of someone being in violation of laws that their subordinates are immediately punished for and I doubt there will be many if any Democrats interested in seeing her charged. A DIA staffer would have been jailed long ago for the obvious violations.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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GreenGoo wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Not that I think that there is anything to this, *but* it's not exactly a surprise that the ranking democrats on the committee (who do not, of course, control the committee, since they're the minority party) have concluded that there is nothing to support the majority's investigation. It would be news if the ranking Republicans say that, of course.

Also, it seems dubious for the Energy and Commerce committee to be exercising jurisdiction here.
You don't think that Democrats would want to act if actual evidence of wrong doing was found?
That's not it, it's just that democrats' political interests are more aligned with there not being an issue, while Republicans' political interests are more aligned with there in fact being an issue. Either could be correct, it's just more compelling / interesting when a politician is acting contrary to their political interest - it's more probative than a politician saying something that is consistent with their political interest.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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Rip wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Not that I think that there is anything to this, *but* it's not exactly a surprise that the ranking democrats on the committee (who do not, of course, control the committee, since they're the minority party) have concluded that there is nothing to support the majority's investigation. It would be news if the ranking Republicans say that, of course.

Also, it seems dubious for the Energy and Commerce committee to be exercising jurisdiction here.
You don't think that Democrats would want to act if actual evidence of wrong doing was found?
I certainly don't. Just look at the Hillary e-mail situation. Never has there been a more concrete example of someone being in violation of laws that their subordinates are immediately punished for and I doubt there will be many if any Democrats interested in seeing her charged. A DIA staffer would have been jailed long ago for the obvious violations.
I believe I've mentioned I'm not too fond of Hillary. If enough evidence comes out that she's committed some serious wrongdoing, I'll be happy to see her charged. After all the Benghazi bullshit, though, lets just say I'm skeptical and need something other than the outrage of the right before I endorse putting her to trial.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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Considering that there's ample evidence that she's not the only one who used personal email for government correspondence (Powell, Rice...both of whom relied on personal email AND can't even produce a history of their emails from that time), this is a policy problem in government IT. Users are going to always get around bad IT policies through even worse methods. That's IT 101 (something I'm surprised Rip hasn't learned after all these years). You don't toss the users in jail for this, you fix the damn problem at the source.

I'm no fan of Hillary, but these stupid distractions only serve to take the focus away from the real problems she brings to a potential presidency.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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But will she be able to keep the Iranians from using personal e-mail for their nuclear program?
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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Rip wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Not that I think that there is anything to this, *but* it's not exactly a surprise that the ranking democrats on the committee (who do not, of course, control the committee, since they're the minority party) have concluded that there is nothing to support the majority's investigation. It would be news if the ranking Republicans say that, of course.

Also, it seems dubious for the Energy and Commerce committee to be exercising jurisdiction here.
You don't think that Democrats would want to act if actual evidence of wrong doing was found?
I certainly don't..
I don't understand this position. Democrats, in general, are socially liberal. That said, agreeing that women should have the right to choose whether they want to be pregnant or not is not the same position as supporting an illegal baby manufacturing and harvesting industry (which obviously doesn't exist, despite Rip's fears to the contrary).

I'm pretty cynical myself these days, but if something like this did come to light, I would expect everyone except the criminals involved to lose their shit over it, especially since it's not a position that any sizable constituency holds. There would literally be no risk (and a lot to gain) by pushing the investigation forward and charging those involved (even if it were Planned Parenthood).

So, sure, Democrats might be seen as Pro-choice, pro-sex ed, pro-contraception usage, but to equate that (El Guapo does too) with pro-baby harvesting for profit is a bit of a stretch. On the one hand you have women's health. On the other you have an industry predicated on harvesting baby parts for profit. There is no way to conflate these two unless you have a problem with abortion in general and just want to confuse the issue for political benefit.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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GreenGoo wrote:
So, sure, Democrats might be seen as Pro-choice, pro-sex ed, pro-contraception usage, but to equate that (El Guapo does too) with pro-baby harvesting for profit is a bit of a stretch. On the one hand you have women's health. On the other you have an industry predicated on harvesting baby parts for profit. There is no way to conflate these two unless you have a problem with abortion in general and just want to confuse the issue for political benefit.
Did you read what I wrote? I did nothing of the sort. All I said was that democrats' general political interests (in addition to their policy preferences) are better served if there is no scandal at Planned Parenthood, while Republicans' general political interest are better served if there is. A scandal at PP gives political cover / impetus for Congress and states to go after PP / abortion rights, which Republicans are inclined to support and Democrats are inclined to oppose. Therefore Republicans' political interest will tempt them to find a scandal even if the evidence is weak, while Democrats' political interest will tempt them to bury a scandal even if the evidence is strong.

When politicians go against their political interests it is more probative, because that suggests that the information / evidence available to them is compelling enough to override their political self-interest (or to change their political self-interest).

Nothing in this says that illegal fetus selling is the same as abortion rights or reproductive services. It's just that an illegal fetus selling scandal would lead pretty directly to new attempts to destroy Planned Parenthood and curtail abortion rights.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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El Guapo wrote: Nothing in this says that illegal fetus selling is the same as abortion rights or reproductive services. It's just that an illegal fetus selling scandal would lead pretty directly to new attempts to destroy Planned Parenthood and curtail abortion rights.
Which grants enough political motivation to put down a misinformation campaign but not enough to attempt to hide/deny criminal activity.

They're calling bullshit where there's bullshit. I think if there were any real evidence of criminal activity in this instance, they wouldn't try to suppress it.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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hepcat wrote:Considering that there's ample evidence that she's not the only one who used personal email for government correspondence (Powell, Rice...both of whom relied on personal email AND can't even produce a history of their emails from that time even), this is a policy problem in government IT. Users are going to always get around bad IT policies through even worse methods. That's IT 101 (something I'm surprised Rip hasn't learned after all these years). You don't toss the users in jail for this, you fix the damn problem at the source.

I'm no fan of Hillary, but these stupid distractions only serve to take the focus away from the real problems she brings to a potential presidency.
Mrs. Clinton continues to insist that her use of a private server was permitted. “What I did was allowed,” she told the Associated Press the day before her ABC interview. “It was allowed by the State Department.”

Mrs. Clinton used similar words last Friday, when NBC’s Andrea Mitchell pressed her on warnings about personal email accounts in the State Department’s operating manual and the U.S. code. “It was allowed,” Mrs. Clinton said. “I chose to do it, as others who had been in high official positions had, as well.”

Even the liberal-leaning Ms. Mitchell wasn’t buying this. “I don’t think there’s any precedent for anyone just relying on a personal email system at your level of government,” she replied. Ms. Mitchell went on to ask: “Did anyone in your inner circle say, ‘This isn’t such a good idea. Let’s not do this’?” Mrs. Clinton’s response: “I was not thinking a lot when I got in. There was so much work to be done.”

Translation: She was so buried with her new job, she didn’t think about the consequences of abandoning the department’s email system and setting up an unsecured private server in her basement for herself and her top staff.

Yet at least one question remains. Did anyone ask the State Department Office of the Legal Adviser for permission for her jury-rigged email arrangement? Or did she simply decide its legality on her own?
On Saturday the Washington Post revealed that a State Department tech staffer, Bryan Pagliano, was hired to set up and maintain her private server. Since her husband and daughter also used the server, Mr. Pagliano was paid directly by the family, the Clinton Foundation or another related entity. Government employees must report this outside income, which cannot exceed 15% of their annual salaries. Yet Mr. Pagliano did not list these payments on his annual financial disclosures for the years 2009 to 2013, which would violate the law.

Did Mrs. Clinton or her people consult either the State Department’s Office of the Legal Adviser or the U.S. Office of Government Ethics to receive permission for this highly unusual arrangement?


Then there is Huma Abedin, who in June 2012 was granted “special government employee” status. The Office of Government Ethics says Congress created this designation in 1962 to allow “experts, consultants and other advisers” to be temporarily brought into government without having to “forego their private professional lives as a condition of temporary service.” A special government employee may serve “for not more than 130 days during any period of 365 consecutive days.”

So while Ms. Abedin was a State Department employee making $135,000 a year, she was also employed by Teneo, an international consultancy founded by President Bill Clinton’s former adviser Doug Band. The firm’s website proclaims that “we sit at the center of information and networks, offering unparalleled execution to capture opportunities and solve complex problems.”

In addition, Ms. Abedin was a contractor to the Clinton Foundation and at some point was also paid by Mrs. Clinton personally, drawing as many as four paychecks.
The same question arises: Did Mrs. Clinton or her office ask the State Department’s Office of the Legal Adviser for approval? Was Ms. Abedin’s unusual arrangement blessed by the department’s ethics officials, as the U.S. Office of Government Ethics recommends?

For months, Mrs. Clinton has made statements about her email server that have turned out to be misleading or false. The claim that everything was allowed looks to be the latest. The burden rests on Team Clinton: Produce the lawyers who approved these shenanigans.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillarys-em ... 1441841939
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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I agree that Clinton fucked up badly. But isn't that something for the existing Hillary Clinton thread?

Please?
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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This is Rip. Everything is the Hillary Clinton thread.

You know, kind of the way Benghazi is Vincent Foster.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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I think that we can all agree that what this thread really needs is an extensive discussion of Deflategate and Tom Brady.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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Holman wrote:This is Rip. Everything is the Hillary Clinton thread.

You know, kind of the way Benghazi is Vincent Foster.
To be fair to Rip, I did lend some help to the derail. :wink:
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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LawBeefaroni wrote: They're calling bullshit where there's bullshit. I think if there were any real evidence of criminal activity in this instance, they wouldn't try to suppress it.
Thank you. Those are my thoughts as well.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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The Hill
A federal judge said Friday that the anti-abortion group targeting Planned Parenthood with hidden cameras cannot refuse to turn over potential pieces of evidence by pleading the Fifth Amendment.

Judge William Orrick said in a hearing that the Center for Medical Progress must comply with the court’s requests for documents, escalating the weeks-long legal battle over the secret videos. The organization’s founder, David Daleiden, had previously told the court that the group planned to invoke the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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One week
The White House has started its formal preparations for a potential government shutdown, as only seven days remain before governing funding runs out.

A conference call with senior agency officials was held Monday to “remind agencies of their responsibilities to review and update orderly shutdown plans."
...
With the shutdown deadline looming, leadership has no time to waste -- and must also contend with conservatives’ calls to defund Planned Parenthood.

House Republicans have pledged to oppose any measure that doesn’t defund the organization and are likely to force a vote on House Speaker John Boehner’s leadership if they don’t have their way.

But Senate Democrats will block any measure that targets the organization -- teeing up a shutdown unless Republican leaders marshal “clean” spending bills through both chambers.
...
Before the Senate can move to that clean C.R., however, it will first vote Thursday on a short-term measure that would fund the government into December but defund Planned Parenthood.
...
Republican leaders maintain that they will avoid a repeat of 2013, when the government shutdown for sixteen days. According to Standard & Poor’s, that shutdown cost the U.S. economy $24 billion.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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Who thought complete fraud that is identified as such could have such a positive outcome to their end goals anyway.

I'm embarrassed for the Reps.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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I'm sorry, but this shutdown is being necessitated by gullible idiots who can't be bothered to actually watch the entire video so they can see where it was edited to hide the truth, as well as the anti abortion group. The blame for this shit lies solely in the GOP camp on this one.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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Isgrimnur wrote:The Hill
A federal judge said Friday that the anti-abortion group targeting Planned Parenthood with hidden cameras cannot refuse to turn over potential pieces of evidence by pleading the Fifth Amendment.

Judge William Orrick said in a hearing that the Center for Medical Progress must comply with the court’s requests for documents, escalating the weeks-long legal battle over the secret videos. The organization’s founder, David Daleiden, had previously told the court that the group planned to invoke the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.
Wait... These guys thought they could plead the 5th and thereby refuse a subpoena/discovery request? That's BRILLIANT. I can't believe every single subpoena or request for discovery in the history of court hasn't been quashed like that. "Uh.. I'm sorry, but I refuse to answer discovery because the answers will look really really bad for me". :lol:
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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WaPo
Despite about 30 conservative lawmakers' objections, a majority of the Republicans in the GOP-led House are expected to join with Democrats to pass a short-term bill funding the government -- including Planned Parenthood -- by Wednesday.

The move would avert a shutdown over the nonprofit women's health care clinic...

The budget detente gives lawmakers two months to come up with a plan to avoid the exact same situation by the next deadline Congress has set for itself to pass a long-term spending bill, Dec. 11.
...
Republicans plan to hold at least three more hearings with Richards and other Planned Parenthood officials, which, if spaced out, could keep the momentum for their base-approved, passion-inducing cause going all the way to the next budget debate.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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Well I am sure those two months and the three additional hearings will result in an informed, well-reasoned compromise.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

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I'm just happy that the government isn't going to shut down over a fucking LIE about a women's health organization. I mean seriously, wtf. Next they'll be holding the government hostage over bookmobiles.

That Planned Parenthood could shut down the entire government is absurd. That complete fraud THAT EVERYONE KNOWS is fraud about Planned Parenthood could threaten to shut down the government is dysfunctional.

We're talking about the government of the most powerful country in the world would simply stop because some asshats with a camera, agenda and editing skills decided they didn't like Planned Parenthood.

You guys are so fucked.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by El Guapo »

GreenGoo wrote:
You guys are so fucked.
And how! House conservatives were just trying to draft Trey "Benghazi" Gowdy to be the new freaking majority leader in the House. Fortunately he's decided not to run because he wants to focus on the Benghazi investigation (which is going to blow up any day now, I'm sure).

Good god. At least that one insanity is potentially preventing another, worse, longer insanity.

I'm not sure any of this is going to get better until we fix how House representatives are districted and elected (so that they are actually routinely competitive), but god knows how that will ever happen.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by Zarathud »

Funny thing. There are various moves to reform the districting process in various states.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by Isgrimnur »

Jason Chaffetz
As if truth-telling worked out so well for his colleague Kevin McCarthy, Republican Congressman Jason Chaffetz has just admitted that the GOP’s investigation into Planned Parenthood’s misuse of federal funds turned out to be a dud.

“Did I look at the finances and have a hearing specifically as to the revenue portion and how they spend? Yes. Was there any wrongdoing? I didn’t find any,” Huffington Post’s Jennifery Bendery reports the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee chairman admitted during yet another hearing on Thursday.
...
Just last week, all three cable networks covered his grilling of Planned Parenthood CEO Cecile Richards and his tearful introduction blaming her organization for causing the death of his parents by wasting limited federal resources that could otherwise have been used for cancer research.

“Cancer in this country kills about 1,500 people a day,” Chaffetz said. “A day — and yet our federal government only spends $5 billion to fight it. If they were shooting 1,500 people a day, if there were rockets coming in, we would be fighting this with everything we’ve got.”
“Every time we spend a federal dollar,” Chaffetz added, “what we’re doing is we’re pulling money out of somebody’s pocket and we’re giving it to somebody else.”

For five hours, Republican lawmakers grilled Richards about her salary, the organization’s travel budget and of course abortions, all the while ignoring that Planned Parenthood provides crucial cervical cancer screenings.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by Isgrimnur »

WaPo
Planned Parenthood officials said Tuesday they will no longer accept payments from companies that use tissue left over from abortions for research.

In a letter to the director of the National Institutes of Health, Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards said that the payments had become fodder for anti-abortion activists. While the organization will continue to donate the tissue, its affiliates will no longer be permitted to recoup any costs from providing those donations, she said.

“Our decision is first and foremost about preserving the ability of our patients to donate tissue, and to expose our opponents’ false charges about this limited but important work,” Richards wrote.
...
In the three-page letter, Richards reiterated the group’s position that it did nothing wrong, and said the laws governing fetal tissue donation are adequate. But the allegations have provided a “smokescreen” for anti-abortion activists to push laws curbing access to the procedure, prompting the organization to change its policy, Richards said.

One of the two affiliates that currently provide tissue for medical research does not recover any costs, she said. “Going forward, all of our health centers will follow the same policy,” she said.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by Isgrimnur »

Of course, that means they're guilty. :roll:
Hours after Planned Parenthood announced its policy change, Center for Medical Progress (CMP) President David Daleiden blasted the move as a “PR stunt” that he said offers evidence that its affiliates have been acting illegally.

"If the money Planned Parenthood has been receiving for baby body parts were truly legitimate 'reimbursement,' why cancel it?” Daleiden asked in a statement. “This proves what CMP has been saying all along – Planned Parenthood incurs no actual costs, and the payments for harvested fetal parts have always been an extra profit margin.”
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by gbasden »

Isgrimnur wrote:Of course, that means they're guilty. :roll:
Hours after Planned Parenthood announced its policy change, Center for Medical Progress (CMP) President David Daleiden blasted the move as a “PR stunt” that he said offers evidence that its affiliates have been acting illegally.

"If the money Planned Parenthood has been receiving for baby body parts were truly legitimate 'reimbursement,' why cancel it?” Daleiden asked in a statement. “This proves what CMP has been saying all along – Planned Parenthood incurs no actual costs, and the payments for harvested fetal parts have always been an extra profit margin.”
These people have as much righteous outrage as the Benghazi folks do, and just as little evidence of wrongdoing. Baseless investigations and false accusations has become a Republican hallmark tactic over the last 20 years.
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by Zarathud »

Some idiot doesn't understand expenses or the definition of profit.
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Enough
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by Enough »

gbasden wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Of course, that means they're guilty. :roll:
Hours after Planned Parenthood announced its policy change, Center for Medical Progress (CMP) President David Daleiden blasted the move as a “PR stunt” that he said offers evidence that its affiliates have been acting illegally.

"If the money Planned Parenthood has been receiving for baby body parts were truly legitimate 'reimbursement,' why cancel it?” Daleiden asked in a statement. “This proves what CMP has been saying all along – Planned Parenthood incurs no actual costs, and the payments for harvested fetal parts have always been an extra profit margin.”
These people have as much righteous outrage as the Benghazi folks do, and just as little evidence of wrongdoing. Baseless investigations and false accusations has become a Republican hallmark tactic over the last 20 years.
Wait, are you saying that the four different congressional committees currently investigating Planned Parenthood are a ruse? :P
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Zarathud
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I want a Lamborghini

Post by Zarathud »

I want the Congressional Republicans to return all the money wasted on political witch hunts and fraudulent investigations.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
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Isgrimnur
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by Isgrimnur »

Texas
Texas is eliminating taxpayer funding for Planned Parenthood in the state, based on concerns over the organization’s fetal tissue donations, the governor announced on Monday.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott’s office issued a statement, saying Texas is ending Medicaid’s participation with Planned Parenthood, which means the women’s reproductive health nonprofit will no longer receive Medicaid funding in the state. The decision came in a letter sent Monday by the Office of Inspector General at Texas Health and Human Services Commission, Abbott’s statement said.
I love it when our former Atty Gen isn't up on recent SCOTUS decisions:
Arizona cannot cut off family planning funding to Planned Parenthood simply because the organization also provides abortions, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Monday.

Without comment the justices rejected a bid by attorneys for the state and a privately financed anti-abortion group to overturn lower court rulings to the contrary. Today’s decision ends the battle.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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GreenGoo
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by GreenGoo »

Geezus.
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Pyperkub
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Re: I want a Lamborghini

Post by Pyperkub »

The ratcheting up of the rhetoric has consequences:
CLAREMONT, N.H. (AP) — An intruder used a hatchet to destroy computers, plumbing fixtures, phones and medical equipment inside a Planned Parenthood clinic, and police are investigating whether the vandalism is linked to the word "murderer" being spray-painted on the same building earlier this month....

...Funding for Planned Parenthood has been threatened nationwide since July, when an anti-abortion group released an undercover video showing agency officials discussing the disposition of fetal tissue.

There has been a corresponding increase in vandalism and arson at clinics across the country.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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