It's not only North America where countries get in arguments over fault.
Desperate migrants poured into the Keleti train station in Budapest on Thursday morning but were prevented from traveling to Germany as Hungary’s prime minister, Viktor Orban, insisted that the migrant crisis was a “German problem” and argued that Europe had a moral duty to tell migrants not to come here.
The comments from Mr. Orban, combined with scenes of chaos at Keleti, which has emerged as a potent symbol of Europe’s struggle to come to terms with the migration crisis, underlined Europe’s lack of preparedness to cope with an influx of refugees from Africa, the Middle East and elsewhere.
In the first seven months of 2015, Turkish Coast Guard Command rescued 18,598 migrants in 585 operations in the Aegean Sea, arresting 39 human traffickers. They consists of a small fraction of 1.9 million Syrian refugees currently hosted by Turkey, which accused the European Union and other developed countries of leaving it alone with the crisis.
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The decades-old dispute between Turkey and Greece over sovereignty and related rights in the area of the Aegean Sea complicates the question of which side should intervene to stop, rescue or detain migrants.
Similarly, the European Union has been haggling to adopt new conditions about asylum seekers and migrants, after the refugee crisis triggered by the Syrian civil war worsened.
With a solution to the ongoing tragedy still not found by the international community, boats keep sinking in the Aegean and humans keep dying.
It's such a hot topic... I really don't know how I feel about the whole thing.
On one hand, I got lucky, I was born in a "good" country and maybe I should share this with the less fortunate.
On the other hand, we already have rampant poverty (Canada/USA) and a whole lot of domestic problem that need fixing, can we really afford to bring in a bunch of new people who are most likely going to end up without jobs? I pay a boatload of taxes already on my salary (35ish%) and another boatload whenever I buy something (15%).
I feel bad for being selfish but I can't help it
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
I say give each refugee an AK-47, three clips and a weeks rations and send em back where they came from with the admonition that if they come back they will be shot. Europe doesn't need their kind of trouble.
Drazzil wrote:I say give each refugee an AK-47, three clips and a weeks rations and send em back where they came from with the admonition that if they come back they will be shot. Europe doesn't need their kind of trouble.
Only mostly joking here.
If they all just go hang out in a park all of that will be provided, and a train ticket too!
Holman wrote:Hating foreigners is the new patriotism.
There are a lot of homeless people. Do you hate them if you don't want them living in your house?
There are a lot of war refugees. Do you hate them if you'd rather see them dead than allow them to seek sanctuary? And since when is Europe your house (or Drazzil's)?
"What? What?What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
Max Peck wrote:
There are a lot of war refugees. Do you hate them if you'd rather see them dead than allow them to seek sanctuary? And since when is Europe your house (or Drazzil's)?
It's so much easier to make that decision for someone else.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
Max Peck wrote:
There are a lot of war refugees. Do you hate them if you'd rather see them dead than allow them to seek sanctuary? And since when is Europe your house (or Drazzil's)?
It's so much easier to make that decision for someone else.
Meh, Texas and California seem to do pretty well with a constant influx of immigrants.
Saudi Arabia, UAE and Bahrain could each build every single refugee a mansion 3x bigger than my house and not even consider the cost. And yet they don't. Those refugees must be the wrong kind of Muslims.
Max Peck wrote:
There are a lot of war refugees. Do you hate them if you'd rather see them dead than allow them to seek sanctuary? And since when is Europe your house (or Drazzil's)?
It's so much easier to make that decision for someone else.
Meh, Texas and California seem to do pretty well with a constant influx of immigrants.
Yes and no. It certainly depresses wages for skilled but uneducated labor. There are certainly extra strains placed on public services.
There's lots of positives as well, but there's a balance in having the right number per year.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
[L]ast week, Chancellor Merkel visited a centre for asylum seekers in Heidenau in east Germany where there had been rightwing extremist rioting a few days earlier.
“There can be no tolerance of those who question the dignity of other people,” she said, standing in front of placards accusing her of being the people’s traitor. “There is no tolerance of those who are not ready to help, where, for legal and humanitarian reasons, help is due.”
Confronted by forces that would overwhelm British leaders, the woman the Greek left (and many on the British left who should know better) mistakenly accuse of being the leading advocate of conservative neoliberalism has stood up to be counted. Being the country to which so many want to migrate should be a source of pride, she says. She wants to keep Germany and Europe open, to welcome legitimate asylum seekers in common humanity, while doing her very best to stop abuse and keep the movement to manageable proportions. Which demands a European-wide response. So far, her electorate and her press back her.
Independent wrote:Canada’s immigration minister has suspended his re-election campaign to investigate why a refugee application was reportedly rejected for Aylan Kurdi’s family.
Chris Alexander was travelling to Ottawa today as anger mounted over how the three-year-old and his family were allegedly driven to attempt their fatal voyage to Greece by the refusal.
Relatives claimed the Canadian immigration department rejected their application in June, forcing them to leave Turkey on a smugglers’ boat that sank, drowning three-year-old Aylan with his mother, brother and at least nine other refugees.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
When the Icelandic government announced it would accept 50 refugees, its citizens rallied, using a Facebook event page to volunteer their homes and pressure the government to grant more refugees asylum.
Holman wrote:Hating foreigners is the new patriotism.
There are a lot of homeless people. Do you hate them if you don't want them living in your house?
No. How is that relevant?
It is relevant in that just because you don't want to forfeit what is yours to someone else in need != hating them. I am rather disturbed by the trend of accusing people of hating others just because they are resistant to forfeiting or sharing what they have with others who need it. By that measurement anyone who enjoys having a home and doesn't invite others to live in it must hate them, which is ridiculous.
In the same sense the suggestion that any country who doesn't want refugees from other countries just flooding across their borders must indicate they hate them. Particularly when we show no commitment to stopping the travesties that make them flee their own countries in the first place.
After a day of defiance by increasingly desperate refugees, the government of Hungary metaphorically threw up its hands Friday and offered to bus thousands of migrants to the Austrian border, sending the crisis spinning closer to the heart of the Continent.
An aide to Prime Minister Viktor Orban said in a statement that the buses would transport the thousands still thronging the Keleti railroad station in Budapest and the approximately 1,200 people who stormed out of the train station earlier on Friday and set off on foot toward the Austrian border.
“This does not automatically mean that they can leave the country,” the official, Janos Lazar, said. “We are waiting for the Austrian government’s response.” He added that the govermnment was doing this to avoid blockage of the nation’s transit system.
It was not clear what the government planned for the thousands already being held in reception centers around the country, nor what the Austrian government would do when confronted with thousands of refugees at its borders. On Thursday the government made a similar offer of a train ride to the west, but then tried to force the migrants off the train and bus them to a refugee camp outside Budapest.
But there was little doubt that after days of trying, halfheartedly, perhaps, to comply with European Union regulations and registering the refugees, Hungary was ready to follow Greece and Macedonia and pass the burden of the refugees on to the next country to the west, in this case Austria.
...
The chaos in Hungary reflected the inadequacy of a refugee policy across the 28-member European Union that has forced migrants to register or apply for asylum in the country where they arrive — though in many cases that becomes the country where they are discovered or detained by the authorities.
Once they register and apply, they must remain there — even if that country is as hostile to migrants as Hungary, which is building a 110-mile fence on its border with Serbia to keep them away.
...
The United Nations said Hungary’s leaders had declined to accept assistance from the agency that supports refugees, including for migrants at Keleti, the main Budapest railway station, where thousands have been stranded in recent days. The meager humanitarian aid at the station is provided by a group of volunteers that formed on Facebook.
Rip wrote:
In the same sense the suggestion that any country who doesn't want refugees from other countries just flooding across their borders must indicate they hate them. Particularly when we show no commitment to stopping the travesties that make them flee their own countries in the first place.
Rip wrote:
In the same sense the suggestion that any country who doesn't want refugees from other countries just flooding across their borders must indicate they hate them. Particularly when we show no commitment to stopping the travesties that make them flee their own countries in the first place.
You mean like destroying Iraq?
That is like suggesting hitting some pile of junk in you back yard I destroyed your car. The fall of the Ottoman empire destroyed Iraq, everything since then has been naively misguided efforts to fix it.
Holman wrote:Hating foreigners is the new patriotism.
There are a lot of homeless people. Do you hate them if you don't want them living in your house?
No. How is that relevant?
I am rather disturbed by the trend of accusing people of hating others just because they are resistant to forfeiting or sharing what they have with others who need it.
Holman wrote:Hating foreigners is the new patriotism.
There are a lot of homeless people. Do you hate them if you don't want them living in your house?
No. How is that relevant?
I am rather disturbed by the trend of accusing people of hating others just because they are resistant to forfeiting or sharing what they have with others who need it.
Is that happening here? I don't see it.
Hating foreigners is the new patriotism.
The only thing I can take from this is that not wanting a stream of refugees invading your country means you hate them. The hate really should be directed where it belongs instead of on countries trying to maintain the integrity of their borders.
Holman wrote:Hating foreigners is the new patriotism.
There are a lot of homeless people. Do you hate them if you don't want them living in your house?
There are a lot of war refugees. Do you hate them if you'd rather see them dead than allow them to seek sanctuary? And since when is Europe your house (or Drazzil's)?
Europe isn't my house, but the people who live there should be consulted before massive amounts of Muslim war refugees are allowed to set up in their backyard. Europe already has issues with the Muslims they have now. Just because their country is broken doesn't obligate the world to throw open the doors, especially when the group in question is infamous for not integrating. I say arm them and send them back. As long as the European union allows massive amounts of war refugees to leave, it will serve as a pressure release valve for these countries that would otherwise be forced to confront their problems head on.
[L]ast week, Chancellor Merkel visited a centre for asylum seekers in Heidenau in east Germany where there had been rightwing extremist rioting a few days earlier.
“There can be no tolerance of those who question the dignity of other people,” she said, standing in front of placards accusing her of being the people’s traitor. “There is no tolerance of those who are not ready to help, where, for legal and humanitarian reasons, help is due.”
Confronted by forces that would overwhelm British leaders, the woman the Greek left (and many on the British left who should know better) mistakenly accuse of being the leading advocate of conservative neoliberalism has stood up to be counted. Being the country to which so many want to migrate should be a source of pride, she says. She wants to keep Germany and Europe open, to welcome legitimate asylum seekers in common humanity, while doing her very best to stop abuse and keep the movement to manageable proportions. Which demands a European-wide response. So far, her electorate and her press back her.
Merkel is a self serving idiot blind to the fact that she is driving her populace (who already struggle with the Muslims they have now) increasingly rightward. That's why she planted the facility in East Germany rather then the West.
Rip wrote:
Time has come to take this asshole out.
The time was a year or two ago at least.
Now is better late than never, but then we'd be allied with ISIS.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
Holman wrote:Hating foreigners is the new patriotism.
There are a lot of homeless people. Do you hate them if you don't want them living in your house?
No. How is that relevant?
I am rather disturbed by the trend of accusing people of hating others just because they are resistant to forfeiting or sharing what they have with others who need it.
Is that happening here? I don't see it.
Hating foreigners is the new patriotism.
The only thing I can take from this is that not wanting a stream of refugees invading your country means you hate them. The hate really should be directed where it belongs instead of on countries trying to maintain the integrity of their borders.
Like
Time has come to take this asshole out.
Because allowing dictators to fall/taking them out has worked so well in the past.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
Rip wrote:
In the same sense the suggestion that any country who doesn't want refugees from other countries just flooding across their borders must indicate they hate them. Particularly when we show no commitment to stopping the travesties that make them flee their own countries in the first place.
You mean like destroying Iraq?
That is like suggesting hitting some pile of junk in you back yard I destroyed your car. The fall of the Ottoman empire destroyed Iraq, everything since then has been naively misguided efforts to fix it.
An infographic (that I saw in print and can't find online) said that the three largest sources of refugees to Europe right now are Syria, Afghanistan, and Iraq. The US and its European allies are directly complicit in two out of three.
If geography weren't what it is, I wonder what you'd say about waves of Afghani and Iraqi refugees washing up on US shores. Because geography being what it is, Europeans are confronting chickens coming home to roost.
Independent wrote:Canada’s immigration minister has suspended his re-election campaign to investigate why a refugee application was reportedly rejected for Aylan Kurdi’s family.
Chris Alexander was travelling to Ottawa today as anger mounted over how the three-year-old and his family were allegedly driven to attempt their fatal voyage to Greece by the refusal.
Relatives claimed the Canadian immigration department rejected their application in June, forcing them to leave Turkey on a smugglers’ boat that sank, drowning three-year-old Aylan with his mother, brother and at least nine other refugees.
As the father of a two year old boy that photo (and the one where he's been picked up) just destroys me. Just destroys me. Fuck Canada.
Independent wrote:Canada’s immigration minister has suspended his re-election campaign to investigate why a refugee application was reportedly rejected for Aylan Kurdi’s family.
Chris Alexander was travelling to Ottawa today as anger mounted over how the three-year-old and his family were allegedly driven to attempt their fatal voyage to Greece by the refusal.
Relatives claimed the Canadian immigration department rejected their application in June, forcing them to leave Turkey on a smugglers’ boat that sank, drowning three-year-old Aylan with his mother, brother and at least nine other refugees.
As the father of a two year old boy that photo (and the one where he's been picked up) just destroys me. Just destroys me. Fuck Canada.
Fuck ISIS, or fuck Syria, or Fuck the US probably, Government should have moved faster but this migrant thing is pretty unprecedented.
Germany anticipates up to 7,000 people pouring across its borders from Hungary over a 48-hour span, authorities told NBC News — a final stop for asylum seekers fleeing war and poverty in their homelands.
Most of the refugees and migrants are arriving this weekend in the German state of Bavaria, which borders Austria, and authorities are organizing buses and trains to take them to other states throughout the weekend.
About 3,700 people were received by 8 p.m. local time, Munich police tweeted.
Neighboring Austria said it received at least 6,500 refugees and migrants who flooded across the Hungarian border, where charity workers provided hospitality and much-needed bedding and food.
...
German government spokesman Georg Streiter told The Associated Press that Saturday's acceptance of migrants represented "an attempt to help solve an emergency situation. But we continue to expect Hungary to meet its European obligations."
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has led calls for other EU members to shelter more migrants as potential refugees, particularly those fleeing civil war in Syria, said in comments published Saturday that her country would observe no legal limit on the number of asylum seekers it might take.
Merkel told the Funke consortium of newspapers that "the right to political asylum has no limits on the number of asylum seekers."
Canuck wrote:As the father of a two year old boy that photo (and the one where he's been picked up) just destroys me. Just destroys me. Fuck Canada.
I'd just like to point out that this is a direct result of immigration changes that Harper has put in place since he was elected. I wish someone would staple a picture of that poor boy to Harper's forehead, so every time someone looked at him, they saw the consequences of his governance.
