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Voter Fraud/Suppression

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Grifman
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Grifman » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:23 am

em2nought wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:14 pm
Image
As an academic on voter fraud has noted;
Election fraud happens. But ID laws are not aimed at the fraud you’ll actually hear about. Most current ID laws aren’t designed to stop fraud with absentee ballots (indeed, laws requiring ID at the polls push more people into the absentee system, where there are plenty of real dangers). Or vote buying. Or coercion. Or fake registration forms. Or voting from the wrong address. Or ballot box stuffing by officials in on the scam.

Instead, requirements to show ID at the polls are designed for pretty much one thing: people showing up at the polls pretending to be somebody else in order to each cast one incremental fake ballot. This is a slow, clunky way to steal an election. Which is why it rarely happens.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by gbasden » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:48 am

Which is why everyone knows this isn't about election integrity, it's about depressing non-white voter turnout.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:07 pm

Kansas Motor-Voter V. Kobach Trial (h/t to Lowering the Bar)
Kobach and an attorney from his office, Sue Becker, got off to a rocky start when they were blocked from showing to the court — and asking witnesses questions about — multiple documents that Kobach’s team hadn’t formally introduced as evidence.

“Evidence 101 — not going to do it,” said Judge Julie Robinson, who was appointed to the bench by then-President George W. Bush. “We’re going to follow the rules of evidence.”

Among these would-be submissions were new statistics on Kansas voter registration applications that Kobach emailed to the ACLU lawyers at 10:45 p.m. Monday night.

Kobach’s side repeatedly stumbled on other rules, too, leading the judge to cut off some of their lines of questioning to the witnesses.
...
In another instance, Becker appeared not to understand the rules for referencing depositions in court. She stood and took directions from the judge.
...
Kobach’s legal team continued to trip up on courtroom procedures, such as how to introduce evidence and quote from depositions while cross-examining witnesses.

At one point, Becker attempted to read aloud a document after being blocked by rules on admitting evidence.

“I'm not going to let you just read the contents into the record,” the judge told her.
...
Thursday’s proceedings turned to the question of whether Kobach can show non-citizens are gaming the system to vote in U.S. elections. The day’s court session ended abruptly amid a string of admonishments from the judge for the Kobach team, which repeatedly tried maneuvers that would have violated trial procedure.

“When are we going to close the door, Mr. Kobach?” she said as his team continued its practice over the past three days of trying to cite materials that hadn’t been provided to the ACLU. “You’re stuck with what you provided them before trial.”

“That's not fair, that's surprise, that's ambushing,” she said during a heated exchange that included cutting off Kobach legal team member Becker and calling her “out of line.”
...
Kobach’s office faced more hurdles to entering evidence — things the legal team hadn’t provided in advance of trial. That included new calculations related to how often non-citizens vote.

Judge Julie Robinson, in apparent consternation, asked Kobach to "please" read evidence and deposition rules that had now come up "ad nauseum."

“You can't sit down with your expert on the eve of trial and come up with new numbers,” she chided him.
...
In the afternoon, testimony from Old Dominion University’s Jesse Richman devolved quickly into argument. In the course of answering questions from the ACLU and Robinson about his data sources, the political science professor repeatedly interrupted the judge.

“Wait, wait, wait!” the judge called out as the situation heated up and more people in the courtroom began speaking simultaneously. “Especially you,” she added to Richman, instructing him not to talk except when answering questions. “You’re not here to trash the plaintiff. You’re not here to argue with me.”

Convincing the judge that Richman's statistics on non-citizen voter registration are reliable is critical to Kobach's case. The 10th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals has said he must prove the problem is significant.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:14 pm

Heritage.org, July 2017
On Thursday, The Heritage Foundation is releasing a new edition of its Voter Fraud Database. Featuring well over 100 new cases, the database documents 1,071 instances of voter fraud spanning 47 states, including 938 criminal convictions.
Lacking from that press release is that the database has to go back to 1982 to get those numbers.

So that's 1,071 over thirty-five years.

So, let's just discount everything but presidential elections over that time. Starting with 1984, that's 1 billion votes tabulated. So that's literally a one-in-a-million in terms of convictions.

Even if you try to spike the incidence by stating there are a lot more that aren't reported/convicted, you get to offset that with midterm/state/local elections.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Pyperkub » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:49 pm

So basically, we've probably tried to write more laws about Voter Fraud than there have actually been occurrences of Voter Fraud, right?
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:27 pm

And probably spend millions per conviction.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Pyperkub » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:38 pm

I'll take misleading bombastic claims for fun and profit for 1000, Alex!
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Moliere » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:54 pm

Tarrant County woman sentenced to five years in prison for illegally voting in 2016
A judge sentenced a Rendon woman to five years in prison Wednesday for voting illegally in the 2016 presidential election while she was on supervised release from a 2011 fraud conviction.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:59 pm

Moliere wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:54 pm
Tarrant County woman sentenced to five years in prison for illegally voting in 2016
A judge sentenced a Rendon woman to five years in prison Wednesday for voting illegally in the 2016 presidential election while she was on supervised release from a 2011 fraud conviction.
Crystal Mason, 43, waived her right to a jury trial and chose to have state District Judge Ruben Gonzalez assess her sentence.

J. Warren St. John, her defense attorney, said after the verdict that an appeal had already been filed and that he is hopeful his client will soon be released on bond.

"I find it amazing that the government feels she made this up," St. John told the court. "She was never told that she couldn't vote, and she voted in good faith. Why would she risk going back to prison for something that is not going to change her life?"
...
She had gone to vote at her mother's insistence and brought her driver's license as identification, according to her testimony. When poll workers could not find her name on the list of registered voters, Mason said, she obtained a provisional ballot and was coached through the process by a worker.

Mason testified that she did not remember the form saying anything about people on supervised release being prohibited from voting.
Last edited by Isgrimnur on Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by malchior » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:59 pm

5 years for mistakenly voting? Yeah - I have a feeling melanin levels had a *strong* influence here.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by El Guapo » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:29 pm

Jesus. It probably wouldn't take that many jail sentences for voting to dissuade a significant number of minority voters from going to the polls, I would imagine.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:08 pm

Texas
Handing the state another voting rights loss, a federal judge has sided with a civil rights group that claimed Texas violated federal law by failing to register residents to vote when they updated their drivers’ license information online.

In a court order made public on Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Orlando Garcia of San Antonio ruled that Texas was in violation of the federal National Voter Registration Act. A portion of that law requires states to give residents the opportunity to register to vote at the same time that they apply for or renew their driver’s licenses.
...
The Texas Attorney General's Office, which fought the case on behalf of DPS, pledged Wednesday to appeal the decision.

"We are not surprised by the order issued on Tuesday by this particular judge," spokesman Marc Rylander said. "The Fifth Circuit will not give merit to such judicial activism because Texas voter registration is consistent with federal voter laws."

The voter registration lawsuit was filed in 2016 against the Texas secretary of state and the Texas Department of Public Safety. Alleging that Texas was disenfranchising thousands of voters, the plaintiffs also claimed that Texas was violating the Constitution’s Equal Protection Clause by treating voters who deal with their driver’s licenses online differently than those who register in person.

DPS followed the law for in-person voter registration, but residents trying to register online ran into convoluted and misleading language, the plaintiffs claimed.

Plaintiffs objected to what they called a misleading process on the agency’s website. When users checked “yes” to a prompt that said “I want to register to vote,” they were directed to a registration form that they had to print out and send to their county registrar.

Though the website specifies that checking yes “does not register you to vote,” that language has caused “widespread confusion” among Texans who incorrectly thought their voting registration had been updated, the plaintiffs claimed.
...
Last February, Garcia sanctioned Texas for dragging its feet on the case, citing a months-long delay in turning over thousands of pages of documents related to the lawsuit. The state attorney general’s office’s delays, he wrote, have been “disruptive, time-consuming, cost consuming” and burdened the plaintiffs. The state was ordered to pay some of the plaintiffs’ legal fees.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Rip » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:54 pm

Does away with online renewals in 3...2....1...

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:56 pm

Motor Voter will not allow that outcome.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:28 pm

Rip wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:54 pm
Does away with online renewals in 3...2....1...
That's a rational and reasonable response.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:20 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:07 pm
Kansas Motor-Voter V. Kobach Trial (h/t to Lowering the Bar)
A federal judge has ordered that Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach be held in contempt of court for disobeying her orders in the proof-of-citizenship voter registration case.

Judge Julie Robinson in her decision Wednesday bashed Kobach’s failure to send postcards to voters whose registrations were restored by her previous move to block the proof-of-citizenship requirement for the 2016 election.
...
She also took issue with Kobach’s refusal to update the state’s training manual for election officials to reflect her 2016 order blocking the proof-of-citizenship requirement. Kobach had argued that he need not change the manual until the Supreme Court had a chance to weigh in on the case, and that he communicated with election officials via email the changes in policy due to her 2016 order.

However he also refused to change the publicly available online version of the manual, until finally taking it down weeks before the contempt hearing in March.
...
The judge also criticized Kobach for appearing to throw his staff under the bus in his ever-changing defenses of his actions regarding her 2016 order, and said she was “troubled by Defendant’s failure to take responsibility for violating this Court’s order.”
...
She ordered that Kobach cover the attorneys fees’ of the challengers in the case or the costs of their efforts to bring Kobach in compliance with her order. She said further remedies would be deferred until her final decision in the ACLU’s lawsuit challenging to the proof-citizenship requirement. The trial was in March.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Pyperkub » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:10 am

Trump will just pardon him, I expect. Won't get out of attorney's fees at least, tho.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:28 pm

Texas
Justice of the Peace Russ Casey pleaded guilty Monday to tampering with a government record and resigned after an investigation showed he turned in fake signatures to secure a place on the March 6 primary ballot.

The embattled judge, who worked in Northeast Tarrant County, was sentenced to two years in jail that was probated over five years.
...
Monday's legal action sparked criticism from some who say women convicted of voter fraud received much harsher punishment.
...
Casey, first elected in 2007, has a history of making headlines.

Last year, he was reprimanded for having an "improper sexual relationship" with a former clerk by the State Commission on Judicial Conduct.
...
Last month, a judge sentenced Crystal Mason of Rendon to five years in prison for illegally voting in the 2016 presidential election while she was on probation from an earlier fraud conviction.

And in 2017, Rosa Maria Ortega, a Grand Prairie mother of four, was convicted of illegally voting and sentenced to eight years in prison. Ortega, who has a green card, was sentenced for illegally voting in the 2012 general election and the 2014 Republican primary runoff.
...
When asked about Casey's sentence, as compared to the sentences these two women received, prosecutor Matt Smid noted that neither woman accepted probation offers that had been offered as Casey did.

"He pled guilty," Smid said. "He accepted accountability for what he did."
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:31 pm

Kansas
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach got a tongue lashing Tuesday from the judge who will decide whether he violated federal law by blocking tens of thousands of voter applications.

Federal Chief District Judge Julie Robinson, a George W. Bush appointee, accused Kobach of engaging in "gamesmanship" and skirting her orders.

In the nearly two years since Robinson ordered him to register those voters, she said, he has forced her and the American Civil Liberties Union to monitor his actions down to the tiniest details in an effort to get him to comply.

"I've had to police this over and over and over again," she said.
...
Robinson will consider whether to hold him in contempt while working on a ruling in this month's trial against Kobach.
...
Kobach, who hopes to be Kansas' next governor, asked the judge not to find him in contempt. The Republican candidate argued he doesn't control the county officials who carry out logistics such as sending postcards to voters to let them know where their polling stations are.

"We ask them to do things. We plead with them to do things," he said. "If the counties did fail, it was their mistake."
...
Robinson, at times sounding livid with the secretary, gave him a dressing-down.

"These people are not second-class registered voters," she told him. "You assured me that they had or they would get the postcards."

She questioned why Kobach had had no problem getting Kansas' 105 counties to require birth certificates and similar documents from voters in recent years, yet denied he could make them mail postcards or comply with other aspects of her orders.
...
The scolding that Kobach endured Tuesday was just one of many he and his legal team received during the trial over the past few weeks. Robinson repeatedly chastised them for attempting to submit evidence they hadn't shown the ACLU in advance of trial, and for violating other court procedures.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:49 pm

Maybe a few days in jail would help him find ways to motivate the postcard mailers.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:40 pm

If you can't disqualify the voters,try to disqualify the candidates.

Dallas
A judge on Monday dismissed a lawsuit that would have removed more than 80 Democrats from the November general election ballot, putting to rest a controversy that threatened to toss Dallas County elections into chaos.

State District Judge Eric Moyé issued an order tossing out Dallas County Republican Party Chairwoman Missy Shorey's lawsuit against Democratic Party Chairwoman Carol Donovan and 127 Democrats originally listed on the March 6 primary election ballot. After the primary, the names of the candidates that were in jeopardy dwindled to 82.

The lawsuit contended that Donovan did not sign the candidate applications of 127 Democrats before they were forwarded to the Texas secretary of state's office. That signature, according the lawsuit, was needed in order to certify the candidates for the election.

But Moyé on Monday sided with the defense and dismissed the claims. In a hearing Friday a team of lawyers, led by Randy Johnston, argued that Shorey did not have standing to bring the suit. They also said Donovan isn't required by law to sign candidate petitions and that the matter is moot because the election is already underway. In his order, Moyé didn't elaborate on the reasons he dismissed the controversial lawsuit.
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Pyperkub » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:42 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:31 pm
Kansas
Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach got a tongue lashing Tuesday from the judge who will decide whether he violated federal law by blocking tens of thousands of voter applications.

Federal Chief District Judge Julie Robinson, a George W. Bush appointee, accused Kobach of engaging in "gamesmanship" and skirting her orders.

In the nearly two years since Robinson ordered him to register those voters, she said, he has forced her and the American Civil Liberties Union to monitor his actions down to the tiniest details in an effort to get him to comply.

"I've had to police this over and over and over again," she said.
...
Robinson will consider whether to hold him in contempt while working on a ruling in this month's trial against Kobach.
...
Kobach, who hopes to be Kansas' next governor, asked the judge not to find him in contempt. The Republican candidate argued he doesn't control the county officials who carry out logistics such as sending postcards to voters to let them know where their polling stations are.

"We ask them to do things. We plead with them to do things," he said. "If the counties did fail, it was their mistake."
...
Robinson, at times sounding livid with the secretary, gave him a dressing-down.

"These people are not second-class registered voters," she told him. "You assured me that they had or they would get the postcards."

She questioned why Kobach had had no problem getting Kansas' 105 counties to require birth certificates and similar documents from voters in recent years, yet denied he could make them mail postcards or comply with other aspects of her orders.
...
The scolding that Kobach endured Tuesday was just one of many he and his legal team received during the trial over the past few weeks. Robinson repeatedly chastised them for attempting to submit evidence they hadn't shown the ACLU in advance of trial, and for violating other court procedures.
Actually Found in Contempt:
Robinson imposed sanctions on Kobach on Wednesday, saying he had to pay the ACLU for attorney fees and that “any further remedial measures” would be decided when she ruled on the merits of the case...

...“The Secretary of State’s Office will be appealing this decision,” said a Kobach spokesperson after the contempt ruling. “Secretary Kobach has no additional comment at this time.”

Robinson’s Wednesday order was scathing, and was particularly directed to Kobach, who made the unusual choice to represent his own office at the trial. She said that Kobach, who is running for governor of Kansas, had made disingenuous arguments to the court and suggested that her 2016 order was dynamic and not law. She also said Kobach had a history of “noncompliance” and “disrespect” for the court in the case. Kobach, who ran President Donald Trump’s voter fraud commission until it was disbanded in January, was fined $1,000 for making misleading statements to the court in the case last year.

“The judge found that Kris Kobach disobeyed the court’s orders by failing to provide registered voters with consistent information, that he willfully failed to ensure that county elections officials were properly trained, and that he has a ‘history of noncompliance and disrespect for the court’s decisions,’”
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by El Guapo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:57 am



Just top notch work, guys.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Pyperkub » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:38 pm

Meanwhile, in Arizona (for today's Special Election):
As residents of Arizona’s eighth congressional district cast ballots in a special election to replace former Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) in Congress, roughly 140,000 of them may be unaware they are eligible to vote because they did not receive the ID card the county is required to send them after they register.

According to the Arizona Republic, Maricopa County officials have not sent all voters the cards they can use to cast a ballot under Arizona’s voter ID law because of an issue with the company used to print the materials. The paper reports that just 60,000 ID cards have been mailed to people who recently registered or changed their registration, while about 140,000 have not been sent...

...But because of an error by the company used to print the ID cards, they have not been mailed out since December.
Sorry, 4 months ain't a "hiccup".
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by El Guapo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:55 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:38 pm
Meanwhile, in Arizona (for today's Special Election):
As residents of Arizona’s eighth congressional district cast ballots in a special election to replace former Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) in Congress, roughly 140,000 of them may be unaware they are eligible to vote because they did not receive the ID card the county is required to send them after they register.

According to the Arizona Republic, Maricopa County officials have not sent all voters the cards they can use to cast a ballot under Arizona’s voter ID law because of an issue with the company used to print the materials. The paper reports that just 60,000 ID cards have been mailed to people who recently registered or changed their registration, while about 140,000 have not been sent...

...But because of an error by the company used to print the ID cards, they have not been mailed out since December.
Sorry, 4 months ain't a "hiccup".
That said, I'm not super concerned because of this:
“It’s not that big of an impact on voters because we have redundancies in our system,” said Fontes, a Democrat who took office in 2016 after he campaigned on a promise to fight voter suppression and expand the right to vote in a county notorious for voting issues. “Every voter already got either a ballot in the mail or they got a sample ballot in the mail.”

Fontes added that people who don’t have the voter ID card should not be turned away from the polls Tuesday if they have other forms of acceptable ID.
So this should only effect people who: (1) Did not get the ID card; (2) did not get a ballot in the mail; (3) Did not get a sample ballot in the mail; (4) Assume without checking that the lack of all these things means that they can't vote. There's a good chance that number isn't huge, and I'm not sure that there's an obvious reason to think that this would impact one candidate more than another.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Pyperkub » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:58 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:55 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:38 pm
Meanwhile, in Arizona (for today's Special Election):
As residents of Arizona’s eighth congressional district cast ballots in a special election to replace former Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) in Congress, roughly 140,000 of them may be unaware they are eligible to vote because they did not receive the ID card the county is required to send them after they register.

According to the Arizona Republic, Maricopa County officials have not sent all voters the cards they can use to cast a ballot under Arizona’s voter ID law because of an issue with the company used to print the materials. The paper reports that just 60,000 ID cards have been mailed to people who recently registered or changed their registration, while about 140,000 have not been sent...

...But because of an error by the company used to print the ID cards, they have not been mailed out since December.
Sorry, 4 months ain't a "hiccup".
That said, I'm not super concerned because of this:
“It’s not that big of an impact on voters because we have redundancies in our system,” said Fontes, a Democrat who took office in 2016 after he campaigned on a promise to fight voter suppression and expand the right to vote in a county notorious for voting issues. “Every voter already got either a ballot in the mail or they got a sample ballot in the mail.”

Fontes added that people who don’t have the voter ID card should not be turned away from the polls Tuesday if they have other forms of acceptable ID.
So this should only effect people who: (1) Did not get the ID card; (2) did not get a ballot in the mail; (3) Did not get a sample ballot in the mail; (4) Assume without checking that the lack of all these things means that they can't vote. There's a good chance that number isn't huge, and I'm not sure that there's an obvious reason to think that this would impact one candidate more than another.
I would assume that every ballot/sample ballot says the Voter ID is REQUIRED, so that they may think they aren't registered - remember these are the people who recently registered... in other words, receiving them may make it even less likely for them to vote if they didn't get their Voter ID (as the other valid id is likely in the fine print).
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by El Guapo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:35 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:58 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:55 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:38 pm
Meanwhile, in Arizona (for today's Special Election):
As residents of Arizona’s eighth congressional district cast ballots in a special election to replace former Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) in Congress, roughly 140,000 of them may be unaware they are eligible to vote because they did not receive the ID card the county is required to send them after they register.

According to the Arizona Republic, Maricopa County officials have not sent all voters the cards they can use to cast a ballot under Arizona’s voter ID law because of an issue with the company used to print the materials. The paper reports that just 60,000 ID cards have been mailed to people who recently registered or changed their registration, while about 140,000 have not been sent...

...But because of an error by the company used to print the ID cards, they have not been mailed out since December.
Sorry, 4 months ain't a "hiccup".
That said, I'm not super concerned because of this:
“It’s not that big of an impact on voters because we have redundancies in our system,” said Fontes, a Democrat who took office in 2016 after he campaigned on a promise to fight voter suppression and expand the right to vote in a county notorious for voting issues. “Every voter already got either a ballot in the mail or they got a sample ballot in the mail.”

Fontes added that people who don’t have the voter ID card should not be turned away from the polls Tuesday if they have other forms of acceptable ID.
So this should only effect people who: (1) Did not get the ID card; (2) did not get a ballot in the mail; (3) Did not get a sample ballot in the mail; (4) Assume without checking that the lack of all these things means that they can't vote. There's a good chance that number isn't huge, and I'm not sure that there's an obvious reason to think that this would impact one candidate more than another.
I would assume that every ballot/sample ballot says the Voter ID is REQUIRED, so that they may think they aren't registered - remember these are the people who recently registered... in other words, receiving them may make it even less likely for them to vote if they didn't get their Voter ID (as the other valid id is likely in the fine print).
I wouldn't assume that, as that's clearly not the case - the Voter ID is one form of ID among many that you can use to vote in Arizona (according to the article). So if the ballot says that, that would be a huge issue in and of itself (because that's definitely wrong), separate and aside from not mailing out the IDs.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Pyperkub » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:54 pm

I would assume the other way - this is Sheriff Joe territory after all, and the general idea is to discourage voting, not encourage it.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by El Guapo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:58 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:54 pm
I would assume the other way - this is Sheriff Joe territory after all, and the general idea is to discourage voting, not encourage it.
But the guy in charge now is a Democrat who was voted in during the 2016 elections as a pushback against past voting rights issues. There isn't much reason that I can see to suspect that this is some attempt by him to disenfranchise democrats. If he were to engage in shenanigans like that, one would assume that he'd be more likely to try to find ways to disenfranchise Republicans.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Pyperkub » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:02 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:58 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:54 pm
I would assume the other way - this is Sheriff Joe territory after all, and the general idea is to discourage voting, not encourage it.
But the guy in charge now is a Democrat who was voted in during the 2016 elections as a pushback against past voting rights issues. There isn't much reason that I can see to suspect that this is some attempt by him to disenfranchise democrats. If he were to engage in shenanigans like that, one would assume that he'd be more likely to try to find ways to disenfranchise Republicans.

Hmm? Well, we'll see. Could even be the company doing the printing then (sorry, our ID printers can't handle Hispanic names and crashed ;)). Voter ID has been fraught with frauds, if you know what I mean (Kobach called van Spakovsky as an expert witness, for chrissakes...).
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by El Guapo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:08 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:02 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:58 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:54 pm
I would assume the other way - this is Sheriff Joe territory after all, and the general idea is to discourage voting, not encourage it.
But the guy in charge now is a Democrat who was voted in during the 2016 elections as a pushback against past voting rights issues. There isn't much reason that I can see to suspect that this is some attempt by him to disenfranchise democrats. If he were to engage in shenanigans like that, one would assume that he'd be more likely to try to find ways to disenfranchise Republicans.

Hmm? Well, we'll see. Could even be the company doing the printing then (sorry, our ID printers can't handle Hispanic names and crashed ;)). Voter ID has been fraught with frauds, if you know what I mean (Kobach called van Spakovsky as an expert witness, for chrissakes...).
I mean, maybe, but that's getting pretty speculative. Also, local agencies tend not to have high budgets, and poorly funded and staffed organizations tend not to produce great results. It's certainly possible that there's intentional fraud / disenfranchisement going on here, but other than the underlying fuck up, I don't see many indicia of that here.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Pyperkub » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:23 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:08 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:02 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:58 pm
Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:54 pm
I would assume the other way - this is Sheriff Joe territory after all, and the general idea is to discourage voting, not encourage it.
But the guy in charge now is a Democrat who was voted in during the 2016 elections as a pushback against past voting rights issues. There isn't much reason that I can see to suspect that this is some attempt by him to disenfranchise democrats. If he were to engage in shenanigans like that, one would assume that he'd be more likely to try to find ways to disenfranchise Republicans.

Hmm? Well, we'll see. Could even be the company doing the printing then (sorry, our ID printers can't handle Hispanic names and crashed ;)). Voter ID has been fraught with frauds, if you know what I mean (Kobach called van Spakovsky as an expert witness, for chrissakes...).
I mean, maybe, but that's getting pretty speculative. Also, local agencies tend not to have high budgets, and poorly funded and staffed organizations tend not to produce great results. It's certainly possible that there's intentional fraud / disenfranchisement going on here, but other than the underlying fuck up, I don't see many indicia of that here.
I was being a bit facetious ;).

I'm actually more open to the idea (of there not being some fraudster involved somewhere) after your posts (but I'd still like to see more information - 4 months is a LONG time for a professional printer to not get anything out at all - Kobach's delays were less than that with regards to the court orders, I think).
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by em2nought » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:44 pm

Enlarge Image
Waiting for the tide to bring me a sail.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:53 pm

Oh good, another drive-by meme pic instead of rational discourse.

Well sir, you've convinced me.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by em2nought » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:00 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:53 pm
Oh good, another drive-by meme pic instead of rational discourse.
The odds aren't in my favor. If I was to attempt discourse I'd be here all night every night. Not too mention not having a way with words, just look to the Barbara Bush thread for an example.
Waiting for the tide to bring me a sail.

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Alefroth » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:04 am

em2nought wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:44 pm
Enlarge Image
No one is telling you anything. Why would they bother?

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by em2nought » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:43 am

Alefroth wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:04 am
No one is telling you anything. Why would they bother?
Image
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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Grifman » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:52 am

em2nought wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:44 pm
Enlarge Image

Please, I see this crap all day on Facebook, don’t bring it here.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Grifman » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:02 am

em2nought wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:00 pm
GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:53 pm
Oh good, another drive-by meme pic instead of rational discourse.
The odds aren't in my favor. If I was to attempt discourse I'd be here all night every night. Not too mention not having a way with words, just look to the Barbara Bush thread for an example.
I can sympathize with that. There are a couple of areas here that I am in a distinct minority and would just get drowned out. So your concern is real. But I just choose not to engage there because my time is limited and I have to choose my fights. That is what you need to do if you do not want to engage. Posting crap like this is not going to make you very popular, and most here don’t care for drive by posts with stupid Facebook memes. We can go there if we want that.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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Re: Voter Fraud

Post by Isgrimnur » Sun May 13, 2018 12:25 am

Texas
As expected, a federal court has issued a final ruling declaring Texas to be violating national voter registration laws.

In a final ruling made public Friday, U.S. District Judge Orlando L. Garcia in San Antonio declared the Department of Public Safety cannot encourage people to renew driver's licenses online, then add additional steps to update their voter registrations that are not required of people who go to their offices in person.

The judge said that the National Voter Registration Act, often called Motor Voter, requires equal treatment.

"DPS is legally obligated, as a designated voter registration agency under the NVRA, to permit a simultaneous voter registration application with every transaction," Garcia wrote in his opinion.

Currently, Texas does not allow people who change their driver's license address online to simultaneously change their voter registration address -- something people who make the change in person are allowed to do. Online DPS customers are required to file additional forms and mail them to another agency to change the voter registration.
...
Last month when Garcia first announced he would rule in favor of the Texas Civil Rights Project, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton's office said they were looking "forward to filing an appeal." On Friday, the a spokesperson for the agency said they were still reviewing the ruling.
...
He has given the state until May 17 to come up with a plan to allow both online and in-person drivers license changes allow voter registration updates without additional steps for one over the other.
...
Between September 2013 and May 26, 2015, more than 1,800 voters filed formal complaints with the state saying they mistakenly believed their voter registration records were updated when they used the DPS online system. The Texas Civil Rights Project said that the 1,800 number is a mere fraction of voters who have been duped by the state's confusing system.
Silver - soon...

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