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In other news...

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau used his United Nations platform to address Canada's historic failings regarding indigenous people.

He said the country's legacy of colonialism and its lasting impact on First Nations Canadians was one of "humiliation, neglect and abuse" .

Mr Trudeau took power in 2015 promising to fix the country's relationship with aboriginal peoples.

But he has faced criticism over his handling of indigenous affairs.

The prime minister used his 30 minutes on Thursday at the General Assembly to reaffirm his commitment to reconciliation.

"Canada is not a wonderland where the difficulties others face do not exist," Mr Trudeau said. "Canada is a work in progress."

He highlighted the unsafe drinking water on many First Nation reserves and the gaps in education and health between aboriginal and non-aboriginal Canadians.

His government has vowed to end the boil-water advisories on First Nations reserves by 2020, but has yet to make a major dent.

The Trudeau Liberals have faced criticism from some indigenous groups for green-lighting pipeline projects.

The national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous woman in Canada has seen frustrated victims' families and high-profile resignations.

In an August cabinet reshuffle, Mr Trudeau split the indigenous affairs portfolio between two ministers. It was a first step towards a major restructuring of the federal department of indigenous and northern affairs - a focal point in the government's relationship with indigenous people.

"Though this path is uncharted, I am confident that we will reach a place of reconciliation," Mr Trudeau told the UN.

Hopefully we'll see some substantive walk to go with that talk, sooner rather than later.

The NDP has selected it's new leader: Jagmeet Singh. You may remember him from a certain viral video, wherein he adroitly dealt with a breathtakingly low-information protester.

I don't know how somebody managed to screw this up, but...

A plaque has been removed from Canada's Holocaust memorial because it neglected to mention Jewish people.

PM Justin Trudeau opened the National Holocaust Monument last week in the capital Ottawa.

The plaque commemorated the "millions of men, women and children murdered" but did not specifically mention Jewish people or anti-Semitism.

About six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, the largest group to be persecuted by the Nazis.

The omission was seized upon by MPs and senators of the opposition Conservative Party on Tuesday.

"If we are going to stamp out hatred toward Jews, it is important to get history right," said MP David Sweet.

Heritage Minister Melanie Joly assured parliament that the plaque had been removed, and would be replaced with one that reflects "the horrors experienced by the Jewish people".

The omission on the plaque appears to have been an oversight - during the opening on 27 September both anti-Semitism and the effects of the Holocaust on the Jewish people were mentioned.

"Today we reaffirm our unshakeable commitment to fight anti-Semitism, racism, xenophobia and discrimination in all its forms, and we pay tribute to those who experienced the worst of humanity. We can honour them by fighting hatred with love, and seeking always to see ourselves in each other," Mr Trudeau said at the unveiling.

Until then, Canada had been the only Allied power to not have a national Holocaust memorial.

Earlier this year, US President Donald Trump was admonished for failing to use the word Jew on Holocaust Remembrance Day.

Trudeau protests to Drumpf regarding import tariffs on bombardier at the behest of Boeing. UK joins in on Trudeau's side of things.

Drumpf making noise about NAFTA.

Fun times for everyone.

GreenGoo wrote:Trudeau protests to Drumpf regarding import tariffs on bombardier at the behest of Boeing. UK joins in on Trudeau's side of things.

Drumpf making noise about NAFTA.

Fun times for everyone.

Trump has been making noise about NAFTA since day one, so I suspect this is more a case of correlation rather than causation. Trump's one-size-fits-all trade position is that he wants to tear up multilateral trade deals and replace them with individual bilateral deals that are all in America's favour (because his idea of a good deal is one where he gets everything and the other guy gets screwed). In terms of nationalist ideology, this makes sense because in any bilateral deal America will be the dominant partner whereas in a multilateral deal American interests are offset by the aggregate economic power of the overall group. Ergo, divide and conquer.

He has ramped up his NAFTA talk recently.

GreenGoo wrote:He has ramped up his NAFTA talk recently.

Yes, but I'd expect that because we're currently in a round of negotiations. I just don't think the pushback on the Bombardier tariff issue has much to do with the American position on NAFTA per se. They were going to trash (or at the very least, trash-talk) NAFTA regardless. However, I believe that Bombardier-Boeing is a taste of things to come if/when they do tear up their multilateral trade treaties.

The Bombardier stuff is likely NAFTA adjacent. I think Boeing saw an opportunity with the NAFTA talks to capitalize on Trump administration willingness to help. And I agree it is a taste of things to come - increasing kleptocracy in particular. Essentially it is donate money. Get influence. Suppress actual competition. The consumer's ultimately eat the cost of all this. And the chosen plutocrats prosper.

Max Peck wrote:

GreenGoo wrote:He has ramped up his NAFTA talk recently.

Yes, but I'd expect that because we're currently in a round of negotiations. I just don't think the pushback on the Bombardier tariff issue has much to do with the American position on NAFTA per se. They were going to trash (or at the very least, trash-talk) NAFTA regardless. However, I believe that Bombardier-Boeing is a taste of things to come if/when they do tear up their multilateral trade treaties.

Certainly possible.

As the US's biggest importer, I'm not sure why Drumpf thinks it's a good idea to screw us over, but I guess we'll see how it turns out. Hopefully it doesn't destroy too many peoples' livelihoods when it does.

GreenGoo wrote:

Max Peck wrote:

GreenGoo wrote:He has ramped up his NAFTA talk recently.

Yes, but I'd expect that because we're currently in a round of negotiations. I just don't think the pushback on the Bombardier tariff issue has much to do with the American position on NAFTA per se. They were going to trash (or at the very least, trash-talk) NAFTA regardless. However, I believe that Bombardier-Boeing is a taste of things to come if/when they do tear up their multilateral trade treaties.

Certainly possible.

As the US's biggest importer, I'm not sure why Drumpf thinks it's a good idea to screw us over, but I guess we'll see how it turns out. Hopefully it doesn't destroy too many peoples' livelihoods when it does.

The grown-ups among his own advisors have pointed out how badly he'd be screwing over his own constituents in the US by shredding NAFTA. But Trump does what he does because it is what he does; he generally acts on instinct and animus, not actual policy or ideology. Still, it might all be wind and bluster intended to give the US more leverage in the negotiations. Trump has talked crazy tough on any number of issues without any real follow-through, so this could end up being more of the same. Time will tell.

Canada's largest school board is phasing out the word "chief"

The Toronto District School Board's decision raised eyebrows in some quarters, but a spokesman said the action was taken "in the spirit" of recommendations made by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

However, Ryan Bird said that to his knowledge no Indigenous people had reached out to ask the board to remove the phrase from its job titles.
...
From here on out, the word is being replaced with terms like "manager" and "executive officer" within the school board. For instance, Bird said, the person once called the chief of social work is now the manager of social work.

Word of the TDSB's efforts drew questions from observers online who wondered if the board may have gone too far. Some questioned the need for the move while others pointed out that the word "chief" is widespread in job titles across the world.

Mark Morton, who works at the University of Waterloo's Centre for Teaching Excellence and studies the origin of words, said the root of the word "chief" is believed to predate Latin, and also spawned words such as "captain."

Reminds me of the complaint about having two hard drives in your computer and calling them Slave and Master.

Next on the agenda: Convince them that "manager" is misogynistic.

Gurrash, the War Chief is not happy with Canada's decision.

Moliere wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:03 am

Gurrash, the War Chief is not happy with Canada the Toronto District School Board's decision.

What, you couldn't dig up a troll war chief reference? Gurrash of the Ear Seekers is just an orc war chief.

Lazy trolling is the lamest trolling.

Max Peck wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:41 am What, you couldn't dig up a troll war chief reference? Gurrash of the Ear Seekers is just an orc war chief.

Lazy trolling is the lamest trolling.

Too early in the morning two search for a pun response for that to.

Quebec, still the most xenophobic corner of Canada.

'I should see your face, and you should see mine,' Quebec premier says of new religious neutrality law

A new law that would effectively force Muslim women who wear a niqab or burka to uncover their faces to use public services is based on a principle "the vast majority of Canadians, and not just Quebecers" can agree on, Premier Philippe Couillard said.

The Liberal government's Bill 62 on religious neutrality was passed Wednesday in Quebec's National Assembly.

"We are just saying that for reasons linked to communication, identification and safety, public services should be given and received with an open face," Couillard told reporters.

"We are in a free and democratic society. You speak to me, I should see your face, and you should see mine. It's as simple as that."

The law prohibits public workers — including doctors, teachers and daycare employees — as well as those receiving a service from the government from covering their faces.

It was extended to municipal services, including public transit, in an amendment made in August.

The Liberals, who hold a majority in provincial parliament, voted in favour of the bill, while all the other parties voted against.

The two main opposition parties, the Parti Québécois and Coalition Avenir Québec, have argued the legislation doesn't go far enough, while civil rights advocates and Muslim groups argue it discriminates against religious minorities.

Apparently "neutrality" has a very different meaning in French than in English.

That's the 'fun' thing about politics: words mean whatever you want them to mean. Literally.

It's obviously an attack on Muslims since they're the one covering their faces, I... kinda don't mind it. I see it as a sign of oppression that shouldn't exist here.

But I guess that makes me a racist, oh well I can live with that

Vorret wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:18 pm It's obviously an attack on Muslims since they're the one covering their faces, I... kinda don't mind it. I see it as a sign of oppression that shouldn't exist here.

But I guess that makes me a racist, oh well I can live with that

No, it doesn't make you racist, because "Muslim" isn't a race. It might make you an ignorant xenophobic bigot, though.

A woman should be able to wear what she wants to wear. Telling her that she can't ride a bus while wearing a headscarf is every bit as oppressive as telling her that she can't leave the house without wearing a headscarf.

Do you get triggered when you see a Catholic nun wearing a wimple?

To be honest I can't remember the last time I've seen a nun in public (or a priest) but I do see a boatload of woman wearing a burka/niqab around town (including at the Amazoo, in the wave pool, they looked really comfortable) so nah it doesn't trigger me, I just think it's silly. Be free, show your face, live a little.

Max Peck wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:27 pm
No, it doesn't make you racist, because "Muslim" isn't a race. It might make you an ignorant xenophobic bigot, though.

It might. But probably not. He has given his reasons for supporting the law, and they are clearly not xenophobic or bigoted. I might give you ignorant, but explaining politely why the ban *is* based on xenophobic bigotry, and how his position, while one of support for human rights, is misplaced, because of the reasons you gave, would probably help inform his opinion.

I don't see any reason to attack well meaning but errant people, if the goal is to have less human rights issues in general.

The law is almost certainly based on scary muslims hiding their faces though, which is of course xenophobic bigotry.

Vorret wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:29 pm To be honest I can't remember the last time I've seen a nun in public (or a priest) but I do see a boatload of woman wearing a burka/niqab around town (including at the Amazoo, in the wave pool, they looked really comfortable) so nah it doesn't trigger me, I just think it's silly. Be free, show your face, live a little.

Have fun trying to use public transport or any other service when they make you take off whatever you Canadians use to make sure your face doesn't freeze directly to the air in the middle of winter.

Our buses are heated.

Are your bus shelters?

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:42 pm Are your bus shelters?

The busy ones, yes.

I didn't know if I should put this in the Canada thread or the U.S. healthcare thread...

Doctor ‘stunned’ over years-long wait for specialist appointment

A Kingston doctor is sounding the alarm about medical wait times in Ontario after one of her patients was told she’d wait 4.5 years before seeing a specialist.

Dr. Joy Hataley, a family practice anesthetist, told CTVNews.ca she was “shocked” after she tried to refer one of her patients to a neurologist at Kingston General Hospital and was told in a letter that it would take years before her patient could get an appointment.

The letter says that if Hataley deems the time frame “unacceptable,” she could opt to refer her patient to specialists in other cities.

There are tons of problems with Ontario health care, and wait times are definitely a problem (less so than in the UK by a large margin), but that's somewhat misleading. Kingston is a town of less than 200,000 people. the fact that there is a neurologist specialist there at all is pretty impressive. There's no way there is a 4.5 year waiting period to service 200,000 (how many head injuries/Alzheimer's/strokes can a population of 200,000 people get anyway?) so I assume the Kingston General is servicing more than just the town. I'm pretty sure there is at least 1 other hospital in that town.

Probably more importantly, it's a teaching hospital with a very strong medical program at the local university. It's possible that experimental treatments are being developed there and long shot cases are being referred there from all over the country.

In Ottawa (1 million pop, 6 or 7 hospitals plus children's hospital) there are a number of neurologists and neuro-surgeons. You can wait 3 months to be seen, depending on what the issue is. You can also be seen within a week, again, depending on the seriousness of the issue.

That's how socialized medicine works. Everybody pays, and everyone gets seen, but triage is a constant thing that can reshuffle the waiting list based on priority and new patients.

I guess what I'm saying is that this is almost certainly a cherry picked stat being reported on because of how insane it sounds. There is NO WAY this is common for serious issues, and I can pretty much guarantee that the patient is extremely low priority for whatever reason. I'm not a doctor, so I can't give you what those reasons would be.

Long wait times are a MAJOR complaint of our medical system. It's the additional price we pay for socialized medicine. People with money and no patience can just head south if they're willing to pay out of pocket, and some (many?) do.

I've always said there are pros and cons to the American system and the Canadian system. One of the cons in the Canadian system is that you can't just decide one day that you need to talk to a specialist, walk into his office, plunk down your cash and get an appointment that day/week/even month sometimes. You go in the system and let it do its thing. You push when you need to push and sometimes that helps. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, if it squeaks in the right way sometimes.

We're also 1/10 the size of the US, which means the bureaucracy and redtape can be smaller (it's still huge of course, just smaller because smaller population).

Edit: Lastly, it is EXTREMELY common to go where the best specialists are. Almost always, that means a trip to Toronto (but Ottawa has a number of excellent specialists in many areas of medicine) or another city. Going to where the best are is just part of the system. Keep in mind that they are all "good". Only the most difficult cases need the best (which also often means experimental treatment).

Also, it's completely reasonable for a doctor who is upset and concerned about the availability of a specific specialist to immediately go to twitter to find out what's going on.

I know when the mailroom hasn't delivered a package that I'm expecting, I immediately go to twitter to ask the minister what is going on. Or when the cooling unit in the server room is down yet again, straight to twitter.

I don't in any way find a waiting list 4.5 years long to be reasonable, just so we're clear.

but:

a) they are asking for a specific specialist, not just a specialist.
b) they are in a town with a teaching hospital where some of the very best go to become doctors. Similarly, some of the very best go there to research/teach/practice.

There's only so many patients a single person can see in a day. If you're really, really popular (I have no idea about this guy/gal) then you're going to be very, very busy. 4.5 years busy? Apparently. It's not like there aren't any other specialists out there. Ottawa is only 2 hours away, for example.

This whole thing annoys me because it's an outlier and the very real problems with the system are not nearly so extreme, yet it's portrayed as the system at the breaking point, which is sensationalist propaganda.

I have trouble believing there is not more to this story or that it is not an automated response issue. It is sorta idiotic no matter what because how could you feasibly know about someone's availability in 4.5 years anyway.

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:03 pm I have trouble believing there is not more to this story or that it is not an automated response issue. It is sorta idiotic no matter what because how could you feasibly know about someone's availability in 4.5 years anyway.

Having read the article again, I believe the story, although you are also probably right, in that there is some reason why this particular patient is so low priority that 4.5 years is the best they can do.

No sane person with real neurology issues is going to wait 4.5 years. Or even a year. Or even 6 months. For traumatic head injuries, you get seen immediately, which means other people get pushed down the list. I mean, car accident, head injury, ambulance, evaluation, surgery can all happen within an hour (depending on travel time and who's at the hospital at that time). It's not like stroke victims are waiting 6 months to see someone.

Honestly, it's almost certainly a rock star neurologist with referrals from all over the entire country, with many people willing to simply wait because they must see HIM/HER for various reasons. If this patient has to wait 4.5 years, there is very likely someone who has decided that waiting 4.4 years is a better idea that going to someone else (and Kingston is wedged right between Toronto and Ottawa, two other major cities with major medical centers). Think on that a little.

At a guess, I feel like this doctor feels that operating out of Kingston should give her special priority when referring to another doctor in Kingston, and when she didn't (and it was an absurd slap in the face) she decided enough was enough and it was time to remind people that the sky is falling.

The Ontario Health Insurance Plan is far from perfect system, but 4.5 years is not the norm. Or even a "normal" extreme.

Bonjour to our fellow OO'ers to the north!

Mords-moi peau de zob.

Rip wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:08 pm Mords-moi peau de zob.

When this is our biggest issue, I know we're doing something right.

I feel a bilingual greeting shows that the clerk is willing and able to speak in either language, which allows the customer to pick the language they are most comfortable.

It's a great customer service technique.

I realize there are major political issues around language, so unlike many colleagues, I don't get outraged over things of this nature.

It's been a year or so since I've been to Montreal but the many times I've been there I can't remember one time where the introduction wasn't in French

There is no controversy, domestic or international, that escapes the all-seeing eye of The Jester...

NHB baby!

Finally, a proper scandal.

Trudeau's tropical vacation broke rules, says ethics tsar

Canadian PM Justin Trudeau's tropical island vacations and the private aircraft that got him there have landed him in hot water.

The federal ethics commissioner has found Mr Trudeau's luxury trips to the Aga Khan's island in the Bahamas violated four conflict of interest rules.

Mary Dawson released a scathing report on Wednesday into Mr Trudeau's trips.

The PM says he erred by failing to clear the vacations in advance.

Mr Trudeau, his family, and some senior members of the Liberal Party vacationed on the island owned by the philanthropist and spiritual leader last December.

Mr Trudeau had previously vacationed on the private island in 2014, when he was an MP. His wife, Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau and guests accepted another trip in 2016.

The Aga Khan Foundation is a registered lobbyist and has received hundreds of millions from the federal government over the past several decades, from both the Liberal and Conservative parties.

Ms Dawson also said Mr Trudeau should have recused himself from discussions about private interests associated with institutions of the Aga Khan.

And she found the PM should have found alternatives to using the Aga Khan's private aircraft to travel between Nassau and his island.

Ministers and their families are barred from accepting travel on private aircraft except for during official duties or with prior approval.

Mr Trudeau promised on Wednesday to clear all future vacations with the ethics office.

However, the commissioner found Mr Trudeau did not participate in any decisions relating to the Aga Khan and his institutions or give them preferential treatment.

She also found that he did not break conflict of interest rules when he accepted the gift of a vacation in 2014 when he was a member of Parliament.