NATO

[Remus West]

Gullible people are fun.

Given the election results I have to disagree with this.

[Isgrimnur]

Welcome, Montenegro!

NATO member states formally invited Montenegro to join the alliance, drawing a prompt response from Russia that it plans to suspend cooperation with the tiny Adriatic nation. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry insisted that NATO is "not a threat to anybody."

Trigger for WWIII

President Trump, who rattled U.S. allies at a NATO meeting last week, voiced concern in a television interview broadcast Tuesday night that sending troops from the alliance to defend an “aggressive” Monte­negro could result in World War III.

Trump was asked about Monte­negro, which joined NATO last year and has a population smaller than the District of Columbia, during a Fox News interview with host Tucker Carlson.

Carlson pressed Trump on the purpose of the alliance, which was created in 1949 to protect the United States, Canada and a host of Western European nations from Soviet incursion. The organization calls for member nations to come to the aid of any ally that is attacked.

“Why should my son go to Montenegro to defend it from attack?” Carlson asked in the interview, which was recorded Monday after Trump’s summit with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin in Helsinki.

“I understand what you’re saying, I’ve asked the same question,” Trump responded. “You know, Montenegro is a tiny country with very strong people. … They are very aggressive people, they may get aggressive, and congratulations, you’re in World War III. But that’s the way it was set up. Don’t forget, I just got here a little more than a year and a half ago.”
...
Trump and Montenegro have a bit of a history: The U.S. president appeared to shove Montenegrin Prime Minister Dusko Markovic aside at a NATO summit last year, the first at which Monte­negro was represented.

[Daehawk]

I guess trump lacks the ability to see it in the reverse...if someone attacks the US we are not alone either.......but may be these days.

[Fireball]

I guess trump lacks the ability to see it in the reverse...if someone attacks the US we are not alone either.......but may be these days.

1,200 soldiers from our NATO allies have died in Afghanistan, fighting in the NATO mission to respond to the 9/11 attack on the United States.

[Rip]

I guess trump lacks the ability to see it in the reverse...if someone attacks the US we are not alone either.......but may be these days.

1,200 soldiers from our NATO allies have died in Afghanistan, fighting in the NATA mission to respond to the 9/11 attack on the United States.

Almost half as many as us.

http://icasualties.org/oef/

The fight is far from being just about 9/11 however. Many places have been victims of those terrorists.

[Holman]

Wow. You're really downplaying allied deaths?

[Fireball]

Wow. You're really downplaying allied deaths?

There's no level so deep that he won't dig even further down.

Those allied soldiers died because we were attacked by Al Qaeda and our allies invoked Article V of the NATO treaty specifically because of it. These Germans, Britons, French, Italians, etc, died fighting for the United States.

[Rip]

Wow. You're really downplaying allied deaths?

Of course not. I highly value the lives of all lost fighting for freedom and democracy.

Just dispelling the notion that they are somehow dying just for us as though there is no reason outside that for them to be there.

[LawBeefaroni]

The fight is far from being just about 9/11 however. Many places have been victims of those terrorists.

Bullshit. They went to war and died for the US.
They wouldn't have waded into Afghanistan without our headlong rush in.

Subsequently, whether it was because they went to war for us or not, they experienced domestic attacks. They were already dying in Afghanistan.

[Captain Caveman]

I'd love to see some polling on NATO. I fear Trump is succeeding in making it just another partisan issue.

[Fireball]

I'd love to see some polling on NATO. I fear Trump is succeeding in making it just another partisan issue.

I saw polling that showed that support for NATO has been steady, and basically even, amongst Rs and Ds for decades... and now Rs are turning against it.

[Captain Caveman]

Yeah, just went looking for it. Partisan shifts in both directions that I bet is even larger now:



And here's a recent 538 piece on the issue

[milo]

Overly simple explanation - maybe Republicans only hated the Soviet Union for the Communism. The totalitarianism thing was actually fine with them.

[Holman]

Racist, nativist Americans hated Europe even before the Cold War. This is the return of that.

Only the Russophilia is new, but it's almost inevitable in terms of Christian/White Supremacy.

[LordMortis]

Overly simple explanation - maybe Republicans only hated the Soviet Union for the Communism. The totalitarianism thing was actually fine with them.

As I keep hearing Reagan's name evoked with regard to today's republican party....

We're approaching the end of a bloody century plagued by a terrible political invention, totalitarianism. Optimism comes less easily today, not because democracy is less vigorous, but because democracy's enemies have refined their instruments of repression.

No wait. Here's one that really stings

I have seen the rise and fall of Nazi tyranny, the subsequent cold war and the nuclear nightmare that for fifty years haunted the dreams of children everywhere. During that time my generation defeated totalitarianism. As a result, your world is poised for better tomorrows. What will you do on your journey?