Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

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Exodor
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Exodor »

All defendants found not guilty on all charges. WTF


Armed insurrection is now legal in Oregon apparently. :grund: :doh:
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hepcat
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by hepcat »

We need to start urging some states to secede. It's for the best.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by $iljanus »

Wow I have some choice words about the different kinds of justice in this country but I'll keep it to myself.
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Grifman
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Grifman »

Geez, I am beyond words. WTF?!
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Holman »

What are the odds we won't see some Bundys stumping with Trump in the next few days?
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by $iljanus »

I'm reading on Wikipedia about Wounded Knee just to see how that turned out and the Native American instigators in that incident were acquitted. Some differences and yet to me some similarities as well. Interesting reading.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Enough »

This portends extremely poorly for if Drumpf wins or loses. Holy Schnikies.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Smoove_B »

Wait...so the guy that stole login information and was able to get nude photos of celebrities was hit with 18 months in prison and these guys walk after armed insurrection? I need a lawyer-type to explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old, because I don't get it.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Max Peck »

Alex, I'll take Jury Nullification for $200 please.
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malchior
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by malchior »

This fits nicely into the jury nullification ethos that you hear about in the sovereign citizen movement. Also more evidence that a lot of folks are downright angry at the government. They don't know why but they are mighty angry.

Edit: I think we might need to start talking about how the country is finally splitting at the seams in very real ways
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by em2nought »

How did the gov't not make sure everyone on the jury was somehow on the federal payroll? :ninja:
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Blackhawk »

They charged them with hindering Federal employees from working and having a firearm in a Federal building?

That's the best they could come up with?
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by em2nought »

Out in time to vote!
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Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Alefroth
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Alefroth »

em2nought wrote:How did the gov't not make sure everyone on the jury was somehow on the federal payroll? :ninja:
Because this is the real world?
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Alefroth »

Blackhawk wrote:They charged them with hindering Federal employees from working and having a firearm in a Federal building?

That's the best they could come up with?
Conspiring to hinder Federal employees which is probably even harder to get a conviction for.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by gbasden »

Smoove_B wrote:Wait...so the guy that stole login information and was able to get nude photos of celebrities was hit with 18 months in prison and these guys walk after armed insurrection? I need a lawyer-type to explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old, because I don't get it.
You and me both. This is goddamned ridiculous. At least the Bundys are being sent back to Nevada to face additional charges there.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by malchior »

Blackhawk wrote:They charged them with hindering Federal employees from working and having a firearm in a Federal building?

That's the best they could come up with?
There also were gun charges which were admitted. Also Destruction of property that was admitted to. Pure jury nullification.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by El Guapo »

Sounds like the government attorneys did a bad job during the jury selection process.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Fitzy »

$iljanus wrote:I'm reading on Wikipedia about Wounded Knee just to see how that turned out and the Native American instigators in that incident were acquitted. Some differences and yet to me some similarities as well. Interesting reading.
:shock:

I am hoping you are talking about the 1970s AIM incident and not the 1890s massacre when referring to Native American instigators.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Enough »

El Guapo wrote:Sounds like the government attorneys did a bad job during the jury selection process.
Agreed that probably is one factor, but the fact that the FBI treated the Bundy Militia like honored guests for 41 days likely didn't help the prosecution either. I suspect the result of this trial will be a reduced interest in waiting out the nice white protesters peacefully and lead to a push back to Branch Davidian days/ways.

Also it seems like maybe juror #4 should have also been removed.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by malchior »

From all the reading ive seen voir dire wasn't poorly executrd from the prosecution side. It is just a largely white and very skeptical population in general.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Exodor »

Alefroth wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:They charged them with hindering Federal employees from working and having a firearm in a Federal building?

That's the best they could come up with?
Conspiring to hinder Federal employees which is probably even harder to get a conviction for.
Apparently they pursued the conspiracy charges because they come with longer potential prison sentences instead of pursuing lesser charges.

What a shit show. The entire country watches the Yeehadists occupy the refuge and destroy property and yet they somehow walk.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Blackhawk »

Exodor wrote:Yeehadists

This word. I like it. It is mine now.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by gameoverman »

It kind of shows how law enforcement is in a no win situation. If you go in guns blazing, the public gets upset. If you give the offenders room to breathe and don't escalate things, and they walk, the public gets upset.

Locals stick together, I see this case as a prime example of that in action.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Enough »

gameoverman wrote:It kind of shows how law enforcement is in a no win situation. If you go in guns blazing, the public gets upset. If you give the offenders room to breathe and don't escalate things, and they walk, the public gets upset.

Locals stick together, I see this case as a prime example of that in action.
It's basically a case of jury nullification based on local sensibilities, yep.
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Exodor
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Exodor »

gameoverman wrote:Locals stick together, I see this case as a prime example of that in action.

Sort of - the trial was held in Portland which is a whole different world from SE Oregon.

I've read elsewhere that the gun charges were somehow contingent on the conspiracy charge so if they're not guilty on that count they have to be found not guilty on the gun charge. It seems to me this failure has to be blamed on the prosecutors who decided to charge them with conspiracy rather than just trespassing, destruction and theft of property and firearms charges.

Hopefully they won't make the same mistake in the Nevada trial.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Kurth »

Exodor wrote:
gameoverman wrote:Locals stick together, I see this case as a prime example of that in action.

Sort of - the trial was held in Portland which is a whole different world from SE Oregon.

I've read elsewhere that the gun charges were somehow contingent on the conspiracy charge so if they're not guilty on that count they have to be found not guilty on the gun charge. It seems to me this failure has to be blamed on the prosecutors who decided to charge them with conspiracy rather than just trespassing, destruction and theft of property and firearms charges.

Hopefully they won't make the same mistake in the Nevada trial.
(1) The trial was in district court in Portland, but the jury was drawn from all over the state. This is not a local sensibilities thing.

(2) I think a major factor here is jury fatigue. At least, that's one of the angles being played up here in the local coverage on NPR and elsewhere. Remember, the jury had already been deliberating for a week before the one member was ousted due to bias. They were then told on a Thursday that they needed to start from square one, throwing out all the work they had done. I've never sat on a jury before, but I've watched many of them (both real and mock) struggle to build consensus for a verdict. When a jury takes more than a week to not reach a verdict, and then is ordered to start from scratch and reaches a verdict in a few hours, it suggests that jury was exhausted with the process and just wanted to get to a verdict.

And to hepcat for suggesting my newly adopted state of Oregon should secede, a big FU. :wink:
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Enough »

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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Isgrimnur »

Guilty
Jason Patrick of Georgia and Darryl Thorn of Washington state were found guilty of conspiring to prevent federal workers from doing their jobs at the refuge, while Duane Ehmer of Oregon and Jake Ryan of Montana were acquitted of conspiracy in U.S. District Court in Portland, Oregon, according to the Oregonian newspaper.
...
Ehmer and Ryan did not win complete acquittals on Friday. Both were found guilty of depredation of government property for using an excavator to dig trenches at the refuge during last year’s occupation of the site, the newspaper reported.

The jury of seven women and five men deliberated for three days, also finding Thorn guilty of possessing a firearm in a federal facility, but the panel acquitted Patrick and Ryan of that charge, according to the Oregonian.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by LordMortis »

Not Guilty

http://katu.com/news/local/ammon-bundy- ... and-oregon
Standoff leaders Ammon and Ryan Bundy and five others were charged with conspiring to impede federal workers from their jobs at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Several also were charged with possessing a firearm in a federal facility.

All seven defendants were found not guilty Thursday on all charges. The jury had no verdict for Ryan Bundy's theft of government property charge.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by gbasden »

I guess jury nullification works. I don't understand why anyone sympathizes with these shitheels, but there you are. Given that a majority of Republicans seem to be fine with Nazis now, nothing should surprise me anymore.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Moliere »

mistrial
A federal judge declared a mistrial Wednesday in the case of a Nevada rancher accused of leading an armed standoff against the government in 2014, blaming prosecutors for withholding key evidence from defense lawyers, including records about the conduct of FBI and Bureau of Land Management agents.

Chief U.S. District Judge Gloria Navarro in Las Vegas dismissed a jury seated last month for the long-awaited trial of Cliven Bundy, his sons Ryan and Ammon Bundy and self-styled Montana militia leader Ryan Payne.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

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Is there a gofundme where you can send dildos?
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