Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Apollo wrote:If anything, it required more training to be a soldier during the Revolutionary War period. Can you imagine standing straight up, in line formation, and going through a 20 step process to load your rifle, while bullets are flying all around you and your buddies are dropping like flies?
Don't confuse training with discipline. What took years, as Grif and geezer note, was developing discipline, cohesion, and leadership, as well as getting properly supplied.

The basic soldering skills were not the bottleneck. Especially once basic soldiering skills no longer included standing in rank formation waiting to be shot.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Holman »

The FBI closed in on the remaining four militia members last night, encircling them and calling for their surrender.

If you're a glutton for hysteria, you can listen to the hours-long audio of the occupiers reacting to events. I gave up early, but it seemed to be mostly panicked screaming and half-remembered manifestos, even though the Feds were just standing around without even a whiff of tear gas.

In related news, Cliven Bundy was just arrested on charges relating to his earlier standoff.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote:The FBI closed in on the remaining four militia members last night, encircling them and calling for their surrender.

If you're a glutton for hysteria, you can listen to the hours-long audio of the occupiers reacting to events. I gave up early, but it seemed to be mostly panicked screaming and half-remembered manifestos, even though the Feds were just standing around without even a whiff of tear gas.

In related news, Cliven Bundy was just arrested on charges relating to his earlier standoff.
Well, bear in mind that they're seeing this through the lens of a world where the federal government is Stalinist Russia. Panic is entirely sensible given that.

Also glad to see Bundy Sr. getting what's due to him for his standoff. Altogether it seems like the government's done a great job with this (to date, anyway).
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Apollo »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Apollo wrote:If anything, it required more training to be a soldier during the Revolutionary War period. Can you imagine standing straight up, in line formation, and going through a 20 step process to load your rifle, while bullets are flying all around you and your buddies are dropping like flies?
Don't confuse training with discipline. What took years, as Grif and geezer note, was developing discipline, cohesion, and leadership, as well as getting properly supplied.

The basic soldering skills were not the bottleneck. Especially once basic soldiering skills no longer included standing in rank formation waiting to be shot.
How do you think discipline was developed?
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Isgrimnur »

Done
The armed occupation of a wildlife refuge ended Thursday morning after more than a month, as the final occupant — a distraught-sounding man who had been yelling about having suicidal thoughts — could be heard surrendering to authorities.
...
On Thursday morning, three of the four people surrendered without much incident, but on a telephone call from inside the refuge broadcast to more than 31,000 listeners on YouTube, a man identified as David Fry insisted that he would not come out “unless my grievances are heard.”
...
Fry at one point called President Obama a traitor, and his other comments veered from abortion and drone strikes in Pakistan to references to Vietnam, the Cold War and the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin, a black teenager killed in Florida in 2012.

Shortly before 11 a.m., Fry could be heard being told to put his hands behind his back and his side of the feed cut out.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Moliere »

"This is the way the world ends, not with a bang, but a whimper."
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Sepiche »

The criminal complaint against Cliven Bundy is online now and contains a fascinating account of the incident in 2014 near the Bundy Ranch:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/298981770/Cri ... -Bundy-pdf

Judging by the charges and the account of what happened in there I expect Bundy and his boys are going to be in jail for a while.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Enough »

Thanks for posting that complaint, it's quite the read.

Oh and I'll just leave this here:

The Ballad of the Malheur Patriots (Song of the Oregon Wildlife Refuge Standoff)

:D :horse:
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Kraken »

That's brilliant.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Exodor »

W.T.F.
PORTLAND, Ore. — Shawna Cox, one of Malheur Wildlife Refuge occupiers facing federal charges, has filed a court document claiming federal damages from the works of the devil for $666,666,666,666.66.

There's a link to the full document on that site and it's a glorious eruption of insanity.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Rip »

Exodor wrote:W.T.F.
PORTLAND, Ore. — Shawna Cox, one of Malheur Wildlife Refuge occupiers facing federal charges, has filed a court document claiming federal damages from the works of the devil for $666,666,666,666.66.

There's a link to the full document on that site and it's a glorious eruption of insanity.
I hadn't realized the devil was under federal jurisdiction.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Enough »

Her very own Krimnal Sopina. :wink:
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by El Guapo »

Why stop there? Why not ask for $666,666,666,666,666.66?
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Enough »

My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Skinypupy »

El Guapo wrote:Why stop there? Why not ask for $666,666,666,666,666.66?
See, Skinny Puppy was smart about it when they invoiced the government for unauthorized use of their music. They only invoiced for $666,666.00...a more reasonable sum. :)
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Enough »

And now in total there were 14 more indictments today. I am stoked one of them is this guy (Eric Parker is actively training his gun at BLM agents out of the picture below):

Image

Here's on this round:
Melvin D. Bundy, 41, of Round Mountain, Nevada

David H. Bundy, 39, of Delta, Utah

Brian D. Cavalier, 44, of Bunkerville

Blaine Cooper, 36, of Humboldt, Arizona

Gerald A. DeLemus, 61, of Rochester, New Hampshire

Eric J. Parker, 32, of Hailey, Idaho

O. Scott Drexler, 44, of Challis, Idaho

Richard R. Lovelien, 52, of Westville, Oklahoma

Steven A. Stewart, 36, of Hailey

Todd C. Engel, 48, of Boundary County, Idaho

Gregory P. Burleson, 52, of Phoenix

Joseph D. O’Shaughnessy, 43, of Cottonwood, Arizona

Micah L. McGuire, 31, of Chandler, Arizona

Jason D. Woods, 30, of Chandler, Arizona
Drexler and Stewart were also photographed pointing guns at BLM agents. Per the indictment, Parker, Drexler, Stewart, Lovelien, Engel, Burleson, McGuire, and Woods all are described as "gunman who threatened." And I imagine there are still a few out there shaking in their boots, "We will continue to work to identify the assaulters...”

Edit: just found the below on twitter. It looks like we are up to 41 total arrests.

Image
Last edited by Enough on Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Jaymann »

Wow, a self-inflicted sting operation.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Smoove_B »

You know...I was wondering what ever happened to that rifle-pointing knucklehead and if anything ever came of it. Glad to see they were apparently just letting the rope go slack and giving them all as much as they needed before finally pulling tight.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Moliere »

FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting
An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice at Robert "LaVoy" Finicum and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in covering up afterward, authorities revealed Tuesday.

The bullets didn't hit Finicum and didn't contribute to his death, but now all five unnamed agents, part of an elite national unit, are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department. Inspector General Michael Horowitz is leading the independent inquiry.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by hepcat »

It's not an excuse, but I can understand the agents' desire to not have the letters "FBI" attached to the actual shooting in light of that group and their supporters and their hatred of all things federal.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Sepiche »

Ammon Bundy et al have had additional charges leveled against them including weapons possession charges that could carry a life sentence.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ammon ... possession

And this gem of a quote:
Ammon Bundy's attorneys told the judge that he wanted to be advised of his rights. U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown denied the request, noting that they were read at three prior court appearances.

"I know I have no rights, so thank you," Bundy said.
Said the man... to the judge... at his trial... while sitting next to his attorneys. :doh:
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Max Peck »

Oregon refuge takeover is over, but aftershocks remain
Winter and spring have passed since an armed occupation of a federal wildlife refuge ended, but its aftershocks are still shaking this high desert region of Oregon, with activists setting up "Camp Freedom" where an occupier was killed and organizing a recall election this week against a top county official.

The headquarters of the 188,000-acre Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, which was occupied for 41 days, is still closed. Down the road, at The Narrows cafe, saloon, shop and gas station, things have settled. Co-owner Linda Gainer said the business she got from journalists, agents, occupiers, protesters against the occupation, and from protesters protesting the protesters, more than made up for any slower days now. The last militants surrendered Feb. 11.

"I met some awesome people. And you know, everybody that came through, they were all polite," she said, describing how even militia members and anti-occupation protesters exchanged greetings.

At her place, 26 miles south of Burns, Gainer feels isolated from the divisions that broke open during the takeover and still linger. Burns is the main town in Harney County, which at more than 10,000 square miles is the largest in Oregon. With only 7,100 residents, it is also one of the least populated.

Those divisions are evident in the signs about Tuesday's special recall election against County Judge Steve Grasty, who for the past 18 years has been the county's top administrative official. Grasty blocked occupation leader Ammon Bundy from holding a public meeting in a county building, an act cited as justification for the recall effort. Grasty says it was absurd for Bundy, who said he wanted to turn the federal refuge over to local residents, to ask to use county property.

"He had already taken over, with firearms, a whole compound of buildings. And (the request) didn't make sense to me, nor did it fit public policy about public safety," Grasty, his shirt adorned with a "No Recall" button, said in an interview in the county courthouse.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by em2nought »

Enough wrote:And now in total there were 14 more indictments today.
Silly patriots forgot to disguise themselves as Indians when dealing with an oppressive regime. :wink:
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by hepcat »

Or LBGT, huh!

Thought I'd just cover your next attempt at a joke so you wouldn't have to.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Max Peck »

em2nought wrote:
Enough wrote:And now in total there were 14 more indictments today.
Silly patriots forgot to disguise themselves as Indians when dealing with an oppressive regime. :wink:
Silly rabbit, that disguise wouldn't work. Indians dealing with oppressive regimes wouldn't have all those guns.

Enlarge Image
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by GreenGoo »

Max Peck wrote:
em2nought wrote:
Enough wrote:And now in total there were 14 more indictments today.
Silly patriots forgot to disguise themselves as Indians when dealing with an oppressive regime. :wink:
Silly rabbit, that disguise wouldn't work. Indians dealing with oppressive regimes wouldn't have all those guns.

Enlarge Image
They could hide themselves in a pile of virgins.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Max Peck »

GreenGoo wrote:They could hide themselves in a pile of virgins.
Not a pile, just one at a time.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by GreenGoo »

Max Peck wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:They could hide themselves in a pile of virgins.
Not a pile, just one at a time.
No witnesses.

Smart.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Max Peck »

GreenGoo wrote:
Max Peck wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:They could hide themselves in a pile of virgins.
Not a pile, just one at a time.
No witnesses.

Smart.
You didn't read the article?
One of the most vocal critics was Nirmal Kumar Bose, a university lecturer who served as Gandhi's interpreter in Noakhali. While conceding that no hanky-panky had taken place (Gandhi and his entourage typically all slept in the same room) Bose protested that the master was exploiting the women, each of whom felt she had a special place in his affections and became "hysterical" if slighted. (Here I follow the account by author Ved Mehta in his 1976 New Yorker series on Gandhi and his followers.) Gandhi, far from being abashed, vigorously defended himself in meetings, letters, and articles, arguing that making a woman "the instrument of my lust" would be far more exploitative than what he actually did.
Many witnesses. Smarter.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by GreenGoo »

No, I had read my own articles previously which had stated he slept with a number of women at the same time to strengthen/test his will.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Kraken »

Max Peck wrote:
em2nought wrote:
Enough wrote:And now in total there were 14 more indictments today.
Silly patriots forgot to disguise themselves as Indians when dealing with an oppressive regime. :wink:
Silly rabbit, that disguise wouldn't work. Indians dealing with oppressive regimes wouldn't have all those guns.

Enlarge Image
Image
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Pyperkub »

I... uh... yeah....
In bizarre court documents filed Tuesday, Ryan Bundy declared himself sovereign from state and federal government and wanted to be paid $1 million to accept “the role” of defendant or inmate.

Bundy, the brother of co-defendant Ammon Bundy in the case of the takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, is acting as his own attorney. The federal court filings were submitted by his court-appointed legal assistant.

Ryan Bundy said he does not accept the role as defendant or inmate without fair and just compensation of $1 million. He also said he is willing to play the “role” of “judge” or “bailiff” for $1 million.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Blackhawk »

So... he's saying he's an enemy combatant?
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Enough »

This is the same guy who was recently caught typing together his bed sheets into a 15ft rope and stockpiling items to help with an escape. When they foiled his plans, he claimed he was only “a rancher, trying to practice braiding rope.”
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

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Blackhawk wrote:So... he's saying he's an enemy combatant?
Ok, I lol'd.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by hepcat »

I should get at least a quarter mil for reading that piece of insanity.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Pyperkub »

Blackhawk wrote:So... he's saying he's an enemy combatant?
Can we send him to Guantanamo?
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Blackhawk »

That was the point. If he's a sovereign citizen and he seized a federal facility, then he's volunteered.
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Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Zarathud »

Ok, have your $1 million. Criminal penalties and damages will be -- $2 million. Glad we can all agree. And he's your income tax bill from the IRS.
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Re: Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Post by Isgrimnur »

Closing arguments
National wildlife refuge occupier Ryan Bundy twice referenced the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. during his closing argument Wednesday, and he told jurors to "stand for freedom" and find him not guilty.

Bundy, 43, is among seven defendants being tried on a charge of conspiring to impede federal workers from doing their jobs during last winter's occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns, Oregon. Jurors are expected to begin deliberations Thursday, capping a six-week trial.

Acting as his own attorney, Bundy quoted the civil rights leader at the beginning and toward the end of his hourlong argument, saying injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

Bundy said that explains why he joined the protest in support of two ranchers he believes were wrongly imprisoned. He said federal government overreach not only put ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond behind bars, it imperils the economies of places such as Harney County, where the Hammond ranch and the refuge are located.

He said the county — nearly 10 times the size of Rhode Island — has gone from a jewel to "the biggest weed patch in the country," and it's because the federal government controls most of the land and restricts logging and ranching.

Because there is no doubt the occupation occurred, Bundy repeatedly appealed to the jurors' sense of justice, essentially saying a minor infraction is justified for the greater good.

"At some point the people have to insist that the government is not our master," he said. "They are our servants, and we have given them a duty."
...
The government gave its closing statement Tuesday, with federal prosecutor Ethan Knight asserting it is "inherently intimidating" to have your workplace taken over by an armed group that doesn't like you.

Ryan Bundy did not deny taking over workspaces that belonged to U.S. Fish and Wildlife and U.S. Bureau of Land Management employees. But, as the defendants have repeatedly said, there was no conspiracy to prevent them from going to work.

"We didn't know their names, their tasks. We didn't know whose seat we were sitting in, and we didn't care," Bundy said.

That may sound callous, Bundy told jurors, but "our purpose was so beyond such considerations."
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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