Gun Politics

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Paingod
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Paingod »

Already used for a couple shootings, and rolling out in the streets unregulated.

Ghost Guns.

TL;DR: Buy a gun kit without a functional receiver, along with the parts and instructions needed to complete a receiver. In three hours you have a perfectly legal, functional, and untraceable firearm.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni »

It's only "untraceable" in that it doesn't have a serial number. Not unlike a regular firearm with the serial number removed.

It still has a barrell and a firing pin so it is as traceable forensically as any other gun.

Criminals have better sources. And a completed ghost gun is a firearm under the law so while the route to get it may effectively skirt some purchasing laws and reqs, possessing it is still illegal if you're prohibited.


Where this is concerning is for other prohibited persons, like the severely mentally ill. They shouldn't have firearms and don't have the criminal connections or the wherewithal to source firearms otherwise.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

What's the Venn diagram of severely mentally ill with the technical skills to make a ghost gun? It's obviously not zero, but is it something most of us should lose sleep over? Especially when it's a lot easier to steal them:
Research by Wright and Rossi in the 1980's found that most criminals prefer guns that are easily concealable, large caliber, and well made. Their studies also found that the handguns used by the felons interviewed were similar to the handguns available to the general public, except that the criminals preferred larger caliber guns.
...
Studies of adult and juvenile offenders that the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services conducted in 1992 and 1993 found that 15% of the adult offenders and 19% of the juvenile offenders had stolen guns; 16% of the adults and 24% of the juveniles had kept a stolen gun; and 20% of the adults and 30% of the juveniles had sold or traded a stolen gun
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Moliere »

Remington bankruptcy could put rifle settlement at risk, attorneys say
An expected bankruptcy filing by Remington, which the gun manufacturer announced on Monday, could jeopardize a landmark class action settlement involving the company's iconic Model 700 bolt-action rifle, according to an attorney involved in the case.

"If they file for bankruptcy, it will stay all proceedings," said Mark Lanier, a lead attorney for plaintiffs who claim that for decades, Remington covered up a deadly design defect that allows the rifle — and a dozen similar models — to fire without the trigger being pulled.

In 2014, while still maintaining the guns are safe, Remington agreed to replace the trigger mechanisms, free of charge, on millions of guns in order to settle the case. But two Model 700 owners, Richard Denney of Oklahoma and Lewis Frost of Louisiana, appealed the settlement. They argue the agreement deliberately downplays the risks from the guns, and does not do enough to notify the public. A three-judge panel of the Eighth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is scheduled to hear oral arguments in the case on Wednesday in Kansas City.
...
The events are the latest in what has turned out to be a disastrous bet by private equity firm Cerberus, which began buying up gun companies — including Remington — a decade ago. In 2009, the company announced plans for an initial public offering of what was then known as Freedom Group, which also included iconic brands such as Marlin and Bushmaster.

But soon after CNBC's initial investigation of Remington in 2010, Freedom Group dropped its plans for the IPO, citing market conditions.

Then, in 2012, came the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, in which 20 children and six adults were killed with a Bushmaster AR-15 assault-style rifle. With institutional investors seeking to distance themselves from gun-related investments, Cerberus announced it would exit the gun business. But it was unable to find a buyer.
Interesting that gun sales are down during Trump's Presidency.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

ATF data for 2017 won't be available until next year.
AFMER data is not published until one year after the close of the calendar year reporting period because the proprietary data furnished by filers is protected from immediate disclosure by the Trade Secrets Act. For example, calendar year 2012 data was due to ATF by April 1, 2013, but not published until January 2014.
And looking at the stats for 2009-2013, the Obama panic was good for business.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Moliere »

I was making a reference to Remington's 30% drop mentioned in the article I quoted. Also:

Gun sales fall by $100 million due to the 'Trump slump'
American Outdoor Brands, one of the largest gun manufacturers in the United States, experienced a 48.5 percent decrease in firearms revenue this quarter compared with the same time last year, The Guardian reports. Sales fell $100 million as a result of what has been called the "Trump slump."

The political climate has influence over gun sales. The expectation of many Americans that Hillary Clinton, the vocal pro-gun-control candidate, was going to win the presidential election in November is considered largely responsible for last year's surge.

People buy firearms at the highest rates when they fear regulations will be enhanced. The mass shooting at an Orlando nightclub shooting in June of 2016 also spurred record sales. According to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), over 27.5 million firearm background checks for gun transactions were processed in 2016. That was over 4 million more than the previous year, and double the number of transactions in 2008.
2016 was a boom year which makes year over year sales comparisons misleading.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:24 pm What's the Venn diagram of severely mentally ill with the technical skills to make a ghost gun? It's obviously not zero, but is it something most of us should lose sleep over? Especially when it's a lot easier to steal them:
That was kind of the point. Ghost guns really only appeal to hobbyists, individuals seeking legal ownership in highly regulated states, and those otherwise prohibited like, but not limited to, the mentally ill. That last group is the only real concern. But I wouldn't say it's not worth looking at just because it's a relatively small group.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

Limited time, limited resources, limited political capital. Don't ignore them, but hit the big nails first.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:07 pm Limited time, limited resources, limited political capital. Don't ignore them, but hit the big nails first.
California has unlimited stores of all three when it comes to regulating firearms. Everyone will wait to see what they do.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

At least all the ones trying to ban violent video games have gone away.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Kraken »

Moliere wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:54 pm I was making a reference to Remington's 30% drop mentioned in the article I quoted. Also:

Gun sales fall by $100 million due to the 'Trump slump'
American Outdoor Brands, one of the largest gun manufacturers in the United States, experienced a 48.5 percent decrease in firearms revenue this quarter compared with the same time last year, The Guardian reports. Sales fell $100 million as a result of what has been called the "Trump slump."

The political climate has influence over gun sales. The expectation of many Americans that Hillary Clinton, the vocal pro-gun-control candidate, was going to win the presidential election in November is considered largely responsible for last year's surge.

People buy firearms at the highest rates when they fear regulations will be enhanced. The mass shooting at an Orlando nightclub shooting in June of 2016 also spurred record sales. According to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), over 27.5 million firearm background checks for gun transactions were processed in 2016. That was over 4 million more than the previous year, and double the number of transactions in 2008.
2016 was a boom year which makes year over year sales comparisons misleading.
Y'know what's funny about this? Soon after Trump was elected, Wife, who has never even held a gun before, suggested that we should get licensed and buy one. Some of us worry more about nazis marching in the streets than about the evil regulators.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kraken wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:38 pm
Moliere wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:54 pm I was making a reference to Remington's 30% drop mentioned in the article I quoted. Also:

Gun sales fall by $100 million due to the 'Trump slump'
American Outdoor Brands, one of the largest gun manufacturers in the United States, experienced a 48.5 percent decrease in firearms revenue this quarter compared with the same time last year, The Guardian reports. Sales fell $100 million as a result of what has been called the "Trump slump."

The political climate has influence over gun sales. The expectation of many Americans that Hillary Clinton, the vocal pro-gun-control candidate, was going to win the presidential election in November is considered largely responsible for last year's surge.

People buy firearms at the highest rates when they fear regulations will be enhanced. The mass shooting at an Orlando nightclub shooting in June of 2016 also spurred record sales. According to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), over 27.5 million firearm background checks for gun transactions were processed in 2016. That was over 4 million more than the previous year, and double the number of transactions in 2008.
2016 was a boom year which makes year over year sales comparisons misleading.
Y'know what's funny about this? Soon after Trump was elected, Wife, who has never even held a gun before, suggested that we should get licensed and buy one. Some of us worry more about nazis marching in the streets than about the evil regulators.
Well, in 2016 you had everyone stockpiling ARs. People were buying a dozen. Now you have a lot of new gun owners buying a single gun, maybe 2.

Prices have come down a ton. All those guys looking to retire on grandfathered AR sales are kind of screwed. It's a good time to be a new buyer.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Enough »

So, what does Trump and the NRA party do today?

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.
Of course.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by tjg_marantz »

Enough wrote:So, what does Trump and the NRA party do today?

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.
Of course.
From last year

https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-ri ... ld-be-fair
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

tjg_marantz wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:50 am
Enough wrote:So, what does Trump and the NRA party do today?

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.
Of course.
From last year

https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-ri ... ld-be-fair
Clock being broke and all that. None of those reasons are why they repealed that rule.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B »

In case anyone was wondering what the official stance would be:
Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives Paul Ryan, in a round of interviews with conservative radio shows on Thursday, said the Florida school shooting that killed at least 17 people on Wednesday should not threaten citizens’ rights to own guns.

...

"...Right now, I think we need to take a breath and collect the facts.”
i.e. it's too soon to start talking about how to fix this, but I'm certainly going to take the opportunity to reassure the base that we're not going to do anything.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Remus West »

Too soon after every event. There is never a time that it is good to start talking because every other week there is a shooting and they are all too fresh and all of us too emotional to deal with it.


Fuck them.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

When it comes down to it - our political elite are the worst sort of cowards. They can't band together and take a hit to save children. And ultimately that is because we accept it. We accept many awful things. We have to own up that we have a deep cultural issue in this country.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by msteelers »

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:41 am In case anyone was wondering what the official stance would be:
Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives Paul Ryan, in a round of interviews with conservative radio shows on Thursday, said the Florida school shooting that killed at least 17 people on Wednesday should not threaten citizens’ rights to own guns.

...

"...Right now, I think we need to take a breath and collect the facts.”
i.e. it's too soon to start talking about how to fix this, but I'm certainly going to take the opportunity to reassure the base that we're not going to do anything.
Marcu Rubio said something similar about "waiting to collect the facts".

That's fine. Let's use what we learned from Vegas, Orlando, Texas, San Bernardino, Fort Hood, Aurora, Columbine, Sandy Hook, and all of the other mass shootings. Surely we've learned SOMETHING by now.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Fireball »

malchior wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:53 pm When it comes down to it - our political elite are the worst sort of cowards. They can't band together and take a hit to save children. And ultimately that is because we accept it. We accept many awful things. We have to own up that we have a deep cultural issue in this country.

Don't smear all "political elites" with one brush here. There is only one group of people here who are blocking action: Republicans.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Jaymann »

msteelers wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:10 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:41 am In case anyone was wondering what the official stance would be:
Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives Paul Ryan, in a round of interviews with conservative radio shows on Thursday, said the Florida school shooting that killed at least 17 people on Wednesday should not threaten citizens’ rights to own guns.

...

"...Right now, I think we need to take a breath and collect the facts.”
i.e. it's too soon to start talking about how to fix this, but I'm certainly going to take the opportunity to reassure the base that we're not going to do anything.
Marcu Rubio said something similar about "waiting to collect the facts".
Allow me to assist: Assholes with assault rifles are mass murdering innocent people.

It is never too soon for increased gun regulations.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

Fireball wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:12 pm
malchior wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:53 pm When it comes down to it - our political elite are the worst sort of cowards. They can't band together and take a hit to save children. And ultimately that is because we accept it. We accept many awful things. We have to own up that we have a deep cultural issue in this country.

Don't smear all "political elites" with one brush here. There is only one group of people here who are blocking action: Republicans.
Fair. The political elite I refer to include some Dems, almost all of the Rs, and large segments of the political donor and special interest complex pulling the strings.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Enough »

Everytown really needs to get their shit together, ugh.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Enough wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:10 pm Everytown really needs to get their shit together, ugh.
? I get texts from them occasionally. Are you saying that because they aren't being effective overall or something specific they did?
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B »

What a great time to be a candidate for Congress and also supporting a raffle for an AR-15 to help support your campaign:
Republican Tyler Tannahill, a candidate in Kansas’ 2nd Congressional District, announced the raffle to support his campaign on Tuesday, a day before 17 people were killed in the Florida shooting. He told The Kansas City Star hours after the shooting that the raffle would continue, noting it was planned a month ago to coincide with the Kansas Republican Convention this weekend in Wichita.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Enough »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:22 pm
Enough wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:10 pm Everytown really needs to get their shit together, ugh.
? I get texts from them occasionally. Are you saying that because they aren't being effective overall or something specific they did?
They were saying this is the 18th school shooting this year and it's not unless you want to count a suicide outside a school that's been shuttered for months. It's obviously still horrific but fluffing up numbers only allows detractors to easily beat them. There are a number of stories, here's the WAPO article that got it going. Since I posted on this, they have revised down to 17 (they removed the suicide mentioned above). Edit: you can see the entire list in the second link for what they are still counting.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Kurth »

I am watching Cooper Anderson read the names of all the victims at Parkland. He says a few words about each, says their name again, then says, “We will remember.” What a load of crap. No. We won’t remember any of them, and nothing will change. Nothing.

Now they’ve airing an interview with a mother who lost her 14 year old daughter. She’s distraught, obviously, and screaming, just screaming about why there wasn’t security at the school. She wants metal detectors at all entrances. She wants armed guards. She wants to know, if people knew Cruz had issues, how did they “just let him go?”

This coverage makes me sick.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by GreenGoo »

What kind of coverage would you consider appropriate?
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Kurth »

That’s a good question, but I’m not sure I have an answer. I just can’t stand any of it. It all seems so dishonest to me.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Skinypupy »

Evidence of Trump signing the bill that overturned Obama's restrictions on mentally ill people buying guns is being thrown down the memory hole
Following a school shooting, the White House reportedly refused requests to release a photo of President Trump signing a bill overturning an Obama-era regulation restricting certain people from buying guns.

CBS News reported Thursday that it asked the White House to release a photo of Trump signing H. J. Res. 40, legislation that the Republican Congress passed just over a month after he took office.

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders reportedly responded to CBS News in April after a dozen requests for the photo, saying, “We don't plan to release the picture at this time."
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(for the record, I am fully aware that this bill had no effect either way on this week's mass shooting. I just find it interesting that they are refusing to even acknowledge that the signing happened.)
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Skinypupy »

Just like they don’t want to solve the DACA problem, why didn’t the Democrats pass gun control legislation when they had both the House & Senate during the Obama Administration. Because they didn’t want to, and now they just talk!
Guess what, asshole. Now you're the boss. So do something or shut the fuck up.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Chaz »

BZZZZZZT! I'm sorry, the correct answer was "because any attempt was killed by the GOP, including the attempt made just after Sandy Hook."

I'm so sorry, you've lost the washer dryer and the ride on mower. Better luck next time.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Alefroth »

Skinypupy wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:50 pm
Just like they don’t want to solve the DACA problem, why didn’t the Democrats pass gun control legislation when they had both the House & Senate during the Obama Administration. Because they didn’t want to, and now they just talk!
Guess what, asshole. Now you're the boss. So do something or shut the fuck up.
Guess that means Republicans don't really want to fix health care.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Chaz »

They do care, that's why they repealed the terrible individual mandate, which is basically repealing Obamacare, I hear.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by hepcat »

He really is the single most divisive president this country has seen in at least a century. We’ll survive, I’m sure. But the damage he’s already done will take years...decades...to fix.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by YellowKing »

And he says he's not a Russian puppet. What did they get indicted for again? Oh yeah, FUELING DIVISIVENESS.

Trump couldn't be more of a Soviet stooge if he had a hammer and sickle branded on his forehead.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

What a total piece of shit and stupid on top but what he says works because the message is simple. They had control and they did nothing. Forget the reality that it was really the Republicans (as usual) who prevented progress. He just has to keep convincing enough stupid people to win in this broken system. Welcome to Hell.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B »

Apparently the solution to the gun problem in schools is that teachers need to be permitted to paddle children. This is what Republicans truly believe.
“We have a culture thing here that we’re not discussing,” Bauer insisted, shifting the topic away from gun control and the National Rifle Association (NRA). “When I grew up it was Andy Griffith. You never had school shootings and we still had prayer in school and we drove to school with guns in the car.”

“Today, we are in a different time,” he said. “The movie industry, the rap industry in general talks about these things that are common now and we have almost desensitized it. Now we have have to worry about kids eating Tide PODs. Instead of discipline — we go after parents who discipline their children. When I was in school, the principal had a paddle. It was called the Board of Education and he used it on all the students. We have changed the mindset today. It’s scary now that students would even contemplate this type of behavior.”
I'll just leave that there. I do hope President Trump personally contacted him to offer thanks for a bit of a Sunday morning smokescreen.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by YellowKing »

Yeah my Facebook feed has already blown up on several occasions that gun violence is the result of taking prayer out of schools. I guess since regular "thoughts and prayers" don't work, we should go back to pre-emptive thoughts and prayers.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B »

If you haven't seen how a Michigan woman is dealing with the "thoughts and prayers" issue, perhaps feel better after reading this.
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