Gun Politics

[Pyperkub]

This part bothers me:

Specifically, the HIPAA Privacy Rule change will enable mental health providers to show the identities of patients subject to a federal mental health prohibitor that prevents them from shipping, transporting or possessing a firearm, according to OCR.

I am 100% against this as much as I think that mental illness and guns needs to be addressed, this isn't the way to do it.

[Rip]

Rep. Barry Ivey, R-Central, has a constitutional amendment in HB4 that would expand the definition of the right to keep and bear arms to include carrying a concealed handgun without a permit. The only exception would be if an individual is already prohibited from carrying a firearm under state law. Ivy is also sponsoring HB6, which seeks to do the same by statute.

https://www.businessreport.com/article/ ... ar-session

[Pyperkub]

Irrelevant. The chances of a constitutional amendment passing are nil.

[Rip]

Irrelevant. The chances of a constitutional amendment passing are nil.

Not talking about US constitution, it is the Louisiana constitution. While still a long shot, the chances are far above nil.

[hepcat]

The bits and pieces I'm reading about Obama's Town Hall meeting on gun control makes me realize how damn good he is when it comes to public discourse. He fought back criticism of his work with compassion and logic.

The biggest take away is that he's sick of the NRA's conspiracy theory bullshit. This whole "He doesn't support the individual right to own a firearm." crap is a bold faced lie.

[Smoove_B]

New study from The Lancet suggests the passing of three laws could drop gun deaths by 90%:

After adjustment for relevant covariates, the three state laws most strongly associated with reduced overall firearm mortality were universal background checks for firearm purchase...ammunition background checks...and identification requirement for firearms...

Ars Technica piece:

“I'm generally skeptical of cross-sectional studies of association,” Garen Wintemute, an emergency physician who studies violence prevention at UC Davis, told the Los Angeles Times. “Evidence from such studies is not considered to be strong.”

In a commentary published alongside the study in The Lancet, the Harvard School of Public Health's David Hemenway echoed the concern, noting the impressive claim of a 90 percent reduction with just three laws. “That result is too large—if only firearm suicide and firearm homicide could be reduced so easily,” he wrote.

Still, the authors defend their analysis and emphasize that the study highlights the need to focus on gun control measures that definitively work at reducing gun-related deaths. Currently in the US, guns kill about 90 people every day.

[Rip]

A shrewd politician would tie identification for gun purchase to be equal to what is required to vote.

[em2nought]

A shrewd politician would tie identification for gun purchase to be equal to what is required to vote.

Wonder who would block that? LMAO

I need to get some green tip soon!

[PLW]

“I'm generally skeptical of cross-sectional studies of association,” Garen Wintemute, an emergency physician who studies violence prevention at UC Davis, told the Los Angeles Times. “Evidence from such studies is not considered to be strong.”

I'm with Garen. Multivariate regression is not sufficient for these sorts of policy questions, especially when we know that there are TONS of underlying factors that correlate with both policy and gun violence. I doubt we can learn anything reliable from this sort of approach.

Edit: Apparently, Garen and I aren't alone:

[Isgrimnur]

More great news from the VA

The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) has reported more than 257,000 former members of the military who cannot manage their finances to the FBI’s list of people who are not allowed to own guns, Republicans claim, even though "it has nothing to do with regulating firearms.”

"The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is effectively a national gun ban list and placement on the list precludes the ownership and possession of firearms,” Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee Chairman Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) wrote in a recent letter to VA Secretary Robert McDonald.

The VA is responsible for appointing a fiduciary to help veterans who it determines cannot manage their own finances, but the agency is also taking the additional step of reporting these veterans to the “mental defective” category of the FBI’s background check system, even if they do not pose a danger to society, the senators allege.

The senators called the practice “highly suspect” and said veterans' ability to manage their own finances is “totally unrelated” to whether they should be prohibited from owning a gun.

[em2nought]

More great news from the VA

The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) has reported more than 257,000 former members of the military who cannot manage their finances to the FBI’s list of people who are not allowed to own guns

Apply that to the population as a whole and there won't be any democrats with guns, well maybe the elitists.

[Archinerd]

George Zimmerman is Auctioning off the gun used to shoot Trayvon Martin.
BBC news story link.

The one-day online auction opens at 11:00 EDT (15:00 GMT) on Thursday. The opening bidding price for the 9mm pistol is set at $5,000.
On the auction site, Mr Zimmerman refers to the gun as an "American icon", and says it was recently returned to him by the US Department of Justice.

Disgusting.

EDIT; Oh, the main OO discussion seems to be here.

[LawBeefaroni]

Agreed that it's disgusting. Would hate to see him get the money but hopefully someone buys it and just gets rid of it. Actually, I wouldn't hate to see him get the money, chances are good he'd squander it in a self-destructive way. As long as he doesn't beat more women or threaten more drivers or whatever other shit he has done as he implodes.

[Blackhawk]

Agreed that it's disgusting. Would hate to see him get the money but hopefully someone buys it and just gets rid of it.

Or some museum buys (for a pittance) it to display in an exhibit somewhere on the issues facing early 21st century Americans, using it for a constructive purpose in exactly the opposite manner that Zimmerman hopes for.

[GreenGoo]

Agreed that it's disgusting. Would hate to see him get the money but hopefully someone buys it and just gets rid of it.

Or some museum buys (for a pittance) it to display in an exhibit somewhere on the issues facing early 21st century Americans, using it for a constructive purpose in exactly the opposite manner that Zimmerman hopes for.

It's my opinion that he needs money. He doesn't give two craps about what it is used for. He's phrased his sale in such a way as to attract the people he thinks will pay the most for it.

I don't disagree that he's a scumbag and his sales pitch is ugly and offensive. I just don't agree that he has any motive for selling it beyond needing money.

[tjg_marantz]

YouTube press guy...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[LawBeefaroni]

Agreed that it's disgusting. Would hate to see him get the money but hopefully someone buys it and just gets rid of it.

Or some museum buys (for a pittance) it to display in an exhibit somewhere on the issues facing early 21st century Americans, using it for a constructive purpose in exactly the opposite manner that Zimmerman hopes for.

It's my opinion that he needs money. He doesn't give two craps about what it is used for. He's phrased his sale in such a way as to attract the people he thinks will pay the most for it.

I don't disagree that he's a scumbag and his sales pitch is ugly and offensive. I just don't agree that he has any motive for selling it beyond needing money.

He's like the Pete Rose of racist, cowardly, woman-abusing, assholes.

[Max Peck]

Trayvon Martin gun 'removed from sale'

The pistol used to kill unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin appears to have been removed from an online auction. George Zimmerman, who shot and killed the 17-year-old, had planned to auction it on the website Gun Broker. The bidding was due to begin on Thursday, with the first bid starting at $5,000 (£3,450). Mr Zimmerman, 32, a neighbourhood watchman, was cleared over the death of the teenager in February 2012 after saying he acted in self-defence. In an online posting to announce the auction, Mr Zimmerman said that he would use the profits to "fight" the Black Lives Matter movement and oppose Hillary's Clinton's presidential campaign.
...
On the auction site, Mr Zimmerman refers to the gun as an "American icon", and says it was recently returned to him by the US Department of Justice. He claimed that the Smithsonian museums had expressed interest in buying the 9 mm handgun, but Smithsonian officials denied that in a statement.
...
This is not the first time that Zimmerman has sought to cash in on his notoriety. His first painting of an American flag, emblazoned with the words "God One Nation with Liberty and Justice For All," sold on eBay for the staggering sum of $100,000. But it did not impress critics, who called it "primitive" and "appalling."

Harsher language will no doubt be used to describe the sale of the pistol that killed Trayvon Martin.

[Pyperkub]

Anyone outside of the Smithsonian or a (civil rights?) museum who is interested in buying this needs to have their head examined.

[Isgrimnur]

SCOTUS

In a majority 6-2 decision on Monday, the Supreme Court upheld a federal law that restricts gun ownership for a person convicted of reckless domestic assault.

“A reckless domestic assault qualifies as a ‘misdemeanor crime of domestic violence’ under §922(g)(9),” said Justice Elena Kagan in the majority opinion in Voisine v. United States.

The Voisine case was about the ability to restrict gun ownership for someone previously convicted of a misdemeanor crime of recklessness. Under federal law §922(g)(9), a person convicted of such a crime, as defined by a state, is also considered to fall under a category of conviction for domestic abuse under federal law.

“[Our] conclusion follows from the statutory text. Nothing in the phrase ‘use. . . of physical force” indicates that §922(g)(9) distinguishes between domestic assaults committed knowingly or intentionally and those committed recklessly,’” said Kagan.

Justices Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor dissented.

“Under the majority’s approach, a parent who has a car accident because he sent a text message while driving can lose his right to bear arms forever if his wife or child suffers the slightest injury from the crash,” Thomas said. “This is obviously not the correct reading of §922(g)(9). The ‘use of physical force’ does not include crimes involving purely reckless conduct.”

Stephen Voisine was convicted in Maine of domestic assault under the state’s broad definition of the law for “intentional, knowing, or reckless” causing an assault. He was later found in possession of a rifle after his Maine conviction.

The Justices considered whether a “reckless” act is actually a use of force under the federal law, which probably caused some debate in private among the Justices about the definition of the words “use” and “reckless.” They didn’t consider direct Second Amendment issues – just the interpretation of the federal statute.

[Moliere]

What? Guns can be used in self defense? That's just crazy NRA talk.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, if only this 22 year old was carrying a gun to protect herself and her sister. Absolutely tragic.

[Isgrimnur]

Absolutely. The mother exhibited signs of mental instability well before this.

[GreenGoo]

The answer to gun violence is more gun violence. Do unto others before they do unto you.

That just doesn't work for me.

[Rip]

The answer to gun violence is more gun violence. Do unto others before they do unto you.

That just doesn't work for me.

May you rest in peace.

[Unagi]

SCOTUS

the Supreme Court upheld a federal law that restricts gun ownership for a person convicted of reckless domestic assault.
"Nothing in the phrase ‘use. . . of physical force” indicates that §922(g)(9) distinguishes between domestic assaults committed knowingly or intentionally and those committed recklessly"

....

Justices Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor dissented.

“Under the majority’s approach, a parent who has a car accident because he sent a text message while driving can lose his right to bear arms forever if his wife or child suffers the slightest injury from the crash,” Thomas said. “This is obviously not the correct reading of §922(g)(9). The ‘use of physical force’ does not include crimes involving purely reckless conduct.”

Wait wait wait. Set aside the 'restrict gun ownership' side of this for a moment...

Why on earth would the above be considered "domestic assault" at all? Thomas speaks of a husband being charged with domestic assault through a texting while driving accident... Does that happen?

[Pyperkub]

SCOTUS

the Supreme Court upheld a federal law that restricts gun ownership for a person convicted of reckless domestic assault.
"Nothing in the phrase ‘use. . . of physical force” indicates that §922(g)(9) distinguishes between domestic assaults committed knowingly or intentionally and those committed recklessly"

....

Justices Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor dissented.

“Under the majority’s approach, a parent who has a car accident because he sent a text message while driving can lose his right to bear arms forever if his wife or child suffers the slightest injury from the crash,” Thomas said. “This is obviously not the correct reading of §922(g)(9). The ‘use of physical force’ does not include crimes involving purely reckless conduct.”

Wait wait wait. Set aside the 'restrict gun ownership' side of this for a moment...

Why on earth would the above be considered "domestic assault" at all? Thomas speaks of a husband being charged with domestic assault through a texting while driving accident... Does that happen?

Definition of reckless causing of assault to a domestic partner (such as crashing a car with the family in it while texting and driving) is apparently the law in Maine where I think the case originated. At least that's my reading

[YellowKing]

Well to be fair, gun laws wouldn't have stopped crazy mom from killing her kids, as the gun used had been passed down to her from her grandfather. One could argue, however, that the gun culture attitude contributed heavily. If you have a history of depression, mental instability, and your family still thinks it's a good idea to have a gun within your reach because "2nd Amendment, Obama takin' my guns, Murrica" then the time bomb is ticking.

[hepcat]

The police had been called to her place on 11 occasions over the course of a year, 3 of which were for suicide attempts. She'd also been committed to mental health facilities numerous times. She openly discussed her ownership of guns on facebook. I know common sense gun control laws along the lines being discussed currently wouldn't have prevented her from acquiring those guns, but Jesus H. Christ, someone should have taken those goddamn things away from her at some (early) point. Are there no laws anywhere that call for firearms to be taken away from those who are proven danger to themselves or others due to mental health issues?

On a side note, I know she was suffering from mental health issues. But killing your own children in order to punish your mate? My God, I can't view that as anything but pure evil...and I know that's what health care professionals and those familiar with mental health problems would say is wrong...but good Lord.

[GreenGoo]

The answer to gun violence is more gun violence. Do unto others before they do unto you.

That just doesn't work for me.

May you rest in peace.

High-larious.

[em2nought]

"2nd Amendment, Obama takin' my guns, Murrica" then the time bomb is ticking.

You've got us. It's true, there are some folks that Obama doesn't mind having guns http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/ ... e-phoenix/

[hepcat]

You can blame Bush for starting that whole mess.

"Gunwalking", or "letting guns walk", was a tactic of the Arizona Field Office of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which ran a series of sting operations between 2006 and 2011.

[em2nought]

You can blame Bush for starting that whole mess.

"Gunwalking", or "letting guns walk", was a tactic of the Arizona Field Office of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which ran a series of sting operations between 2006 and 2011.

Proving they all need to go, and we need some fresh blood in there that's going to rattle the tree to see what rotten fruit falls out.

[Isgrimnur]

Calif.

Gov. Jerry Brown signed six stringent gun-control measures Friday that will require people to turn in high-capacity magazines and require background checks for ammunition sales, as California Democrats seek to strengthen gun laws that are already among the strictest in the nation.

Brown vetoed five other bills, including a requirement to register homemade firearms and report lost or stolen weapons to authorities.

The Democratic governor's action is consistent with his mixed record on gun control. Some of the bills enacted duplicate provisions of a ballot measure by Democratic Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom that will appear on the November ballot.

One bill he vetoed would have asked voters to strengthen penalties for stealing a gun, because he said voters will already be deciding it through Newsom's initiative. Newsom's ballot measure also will ask voters to require reporting of lost and stolen firearms — an idea Brown rejected Friday and has rejected least twice before.
...
The measures Brown signed will:
— Outlaw assault rifles with a feature known as a bullet button, which allows shooters to use a small tool to quickly change magazines
— Mandate background checks when a gun is loaned to someone other than a close relative of the owner
— Boost penalties for filing false reports of stolen guns, a measure targeting straw purchasers who buy weapons on behalf of people prohibited from doing so
— Create regulations for ammunition, including requirements that ammo sellers get a license and that purchases be screened
— Ban possession of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds, requiring people who already own them to turn them in to authorities

He vetoed bills that would:
— Ask voters to stiffen penalties for stealing guns, which were inadvertently reduced when voters approved Proposition 47 that raised the threshold for a theft to be considered a felony
— Require registration of homemade firearms, which critics call "ghost guns" because they're not required to have serial numbers
— Expanded the types of people who can seek gun-violence restraining orders under a six-month-old program that allows courts to temporary revoke gun ownership rights of people suspected to be dangerous to themselves of others
— Require gun owners to report lost or stolen firearms to authorities within five days
— Restrict all firearm purchases to one per month, a limitation that currently applies only to handguns

[Unagi]

You can blame Bush for starting that whole mess.

"Gunwalking", or "letting guns walk", was a tactic of the Arizona Field Office of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which ran a series of sting operations between 2006 and 2011.

Proving they all need to go, and we need some fresh blood in there that's going to rattle the tree to see what rotten fruit falls out.

Not a great job for a lumberjack though.

[hepcat]

Everyone's an armchair president these days.

[Unagi]

I think everything's a Lumberjack's armchair these days.

[Arcanis]

Well I guess Brown isn't interested in making changes to gun laws that may actually do something to aid in gun violence. I've seen the reports of the gunpocolypse in Cali since yesterday but I'll just pull out the parts from Isg.'s quote to address.

Outlaw assault rifles with a feature known as a bullet button, which allows shooters to use a small tool to quickly change magazines

What a BS attempt to make guns sound magically dangerous. This really translates to you can't have a box magazine which is roughly 90% of firearms.

Mandate background checks when a gun is loaned to someone other than a close relative of the owner

So what constitutes a loaned firearm? Is it if they take it home? How about if I let a friend shoot my gun while we are at the range together? That doesn't even get into the mess of how does a private citizen perform a background check on someone, this is the same problem with what everyone terms the gunshow loophole. What level of background check is sufficient?

Boost penalties for filing false reports of stolen guns, a measure targeting straw purchasers who buy weapons on behalf of people prohibited from doing so

This I'm actually in favor of. Cutting down on straw purchases is going to be one of the few things that IMO will reduce gun crime. There may be a shit ton of guns already in circulation in criminal circles, but if you can curb the number of guns being purchased by people who will hand them over to those who can't legally own them then you can slow down gun crimes.

Create regulations for ammunition, including requirements that ammo sellers get a license and that purchases be screened

This is just an end around trying to deny the second amendment without using the word gun. You are making the process a whole lot more difficult for everyone to do nothing. Useless waste of time and resources.

Ban possession of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds, requiring people who already own them to turn them in to authorities

See the bullet button comments. This is just an attempt to whittle away at what you can legally own until they can get an outright ban.

Ask voters to stiffen penalties for stealing guns, which were inadvertently reduced when voters approved Proposition 47 that raised the threshold for a theft to be considered a felony

The only reason I see for him to have vetoed this is if it is one of the items covered in the November vote. This is one of the things that will help with straw purchases and use of stolen guns in crimes, or at least make it a more severe punishment if they have a crime committed with a stolen gun.

Require registration of homemade firearms, which critics call "ghost guns" because they're not required to have serial numbers

Not too sure on this one. I thought federal law required home made firearms have a serial number, but I could be wrong on that point. In either case I'm not exactly a fan of firearm registration as lists will be used for political purposes.

Expanded the types of people who can seek gun-violence restraining orders under a six-month-old program that allows courts to temporary revoke gun ownership rights of people suspected to be dangerous to themselves of others

I don't know enough details to make a good argument for or against this one. In premise I'm on the fence, as I'd like for people to have some protection from that violent ex and such, but I also wouldn't want this to be a weapon of the vindictive ex either.

Require gun owners to report lost or stolen firearms to authorities within five days

More straw purchase prevention. Why block this? You find your gun is missing, you search for a couple of days to try and find it, then you report it. What the hell is the problem? Don't have your SN for your gun, then why are you not recording it? I have the model and SN of every gun my wife and I have owned recorded in a simple google doc, including the one we have sold and on exactly what date. It took me less than 5 minutes to do this. There is no reason someone shouldn't report a lost or stolen gun, seriously what is the worst case scenario you find it and call the police back to say it is now accounted for.

Restrict all firearm purchases to one per month, a limitation that currently applies only to handguns

More BS. How about we apply the same to Op. Ed pieces. You are only allowed to voice your opinion one time per month.

Brown signed for the most part crap that just makes the ignorant feel like they are doing something and then vetoed stuff that may actually make a difference in gun violence. Seriously who the hell thinks any of the politicians pushing for more gun control actually give a shit about people.

[GreenGoo]

You tell'em arc.

What would you suggest to help solve the seemingly constant mass murders happening in the US?

[Blackhawk]

Stop trying to solve the problem by focusing on the statistical outliers?