Gun Politics

For discussion of religion and politics

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Isgrimnur
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

Long guns only.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Moliere
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Moliere »

Just finished Stephen King's Guns. It's a short little essay I would recommend for anyone interested in the subject. He starts by listing the stages of what happens following a shooting. Stage 16 had me laughing: "what cable news does best now begins, and will continue for the next 72 hours: the slow and luxurious licking of tears from the faces of the bereaved." :lol:
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by GreenGoo »

Well they are more of a conduit so the viewer at home can tear lick.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Montana allows open carry without a permit and has honors concealed permits from almost all other states.

Apparently you don't need a permit to carry concealed outside of town/city limits but I've never tested that.
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Paingod
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Paingod »

Maine recently passed a concealed carry law that eliminates the need for permits. So far, we haven't bad a bloodbath or tragedy I'm aware of because of it.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Punisher »

Paingod wrote:Maine recently passed a concealed carry law that eliminates the need for permits. So far, we haven't bad a bloodbath or tragedy I'm aware of because of it.
You should move now! open carry is the beginning of Anarchy!
Come down to Jersey where the laws are strict and the streets are safe!
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by GreenGoo »

It must be fun being a cop and doing a traffic stop in an open carry state.
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Punisher
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Punisher »

GreenGoo wrote:It must be fun being a cop and doing a traffic stop in an open carry state.
For some it is better... they KNOW a person has a gun on them whereas, if it's a criminal carrying concealed, they never know until later.
It does depend on the cop and the state though. States that have had open carry for a while tend to have cops who are more open to the idea in many cases.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Legal carriers are usually safe stops. Not that it's safe to assume anything, of course. Even in 2A states you lose the right to carry if you become a prohibited person.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

Our fearless leader is due to speak shortly on the Las Vegas shooting. I have no doubt it will be what we truly need to come together and heal.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Max Peck »

Isgrimnur wrote:Our fearless leader is due to speak shortly on the Las Vegas shooting. I have no doubt it will be what we truly need to come together and heal.
Hopefully his speechwriters can improve on "warmest condolences."
Last edited by Max Peck on Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Captain Caveman »

Isgrimnur wrote:Our fearless leader is due to speak shortly on the Las Vegas shooting. I have no doubt it will be what we truly need to come together and heal.
I hate to be cynical, but I bet his remarks are actually in this vein given the ethnicity of the shooter.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

My dark-horse bet is on victim-blaming for their love of redneck gun culture.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Captain Caveman
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Captain Caveman »

He also won't be able to apply his usual banal and idiotic remarks about "wouldn't it be a beautiful thing if bullets were firing in the other direction" given that the shooter was shooting down at the crowd from the 32nd floor.
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Captain Caveman
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Captain Caveman »

Captain Caveman wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Our fearless leader is due to speak shortly on the Las Vegas shooting. I have no doubt it will be what we truly need to come together and heal.
I hate to be cynical, but I bet his remarks are actually in this vein given the ethnicity of the shooter.
Yep, just watched. It was a brief, generic "unity and healing" message read from a teleprompter. Cue the Pavlovian "pivot to presidential" pundit response.

Edit: goddamit: https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/914867684348530688
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B »

And the usual crowd is offering "thoughts and prayers" to victims and families via Twitter. If only these people were in a position where they could offer something more substantive in the way of try to stem what seems to be a real problem here in the United States. No? Nothing they can do? Thoughts and prayers it is.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

As i alluded to in the other forum...i guess it is just the angry gods. What can we do? It is just the way it is. Or something equally idiotic.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Rip »

Well in this case I am expecting there will be something we can do.

I'm going to assume he didn't hold a class 3 license just based on the fact he doesn't fit the profile.

So that means he somehow obtained highly illegal military weapons or obtained conversion parts to alter a legal weapon. Obviously there are some holes in preventing that from happening. We should get right on making sure whatever method he used is far less possible.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

Agreed.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

That probably won't happen and closing a conversion gap isn't a fix that will stop these events. We need a national conversation about comprehensive fixes. Unfortunately that is pretty much impossible.
Last edited by malchior on Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

There’s nothing within the realm of near future possibilities that’s going to stop these events.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Captain Caveman »

Isgrimnur wrote:There’s nothing within the realm of near future possibilities that’s going to stop these events.
Wrong! I can think of one:
Spoiler:
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by pr0ner »

C'mon, man.
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malchior
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

Guess we shouldn't do anything then. Hopefully the gods won't take a 100 souls next time. It must be just the cost of freedom.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by noxiousdog »

malchior wrote:Guess we shouldn't do anything then. Hopefully the gods won't take a 100 souls next time. It must be just the cost of freedom.
I always enjoy watching the dichotomy of left vs. right on securing the border vs. gun control.

That being said, I would like to see if we could find some truly effective measures of keeping weapons out of the hands of crazy people.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Carpet_pissr »

malchior wrote:Guess we shouldn't do anything then. Hopefully the gods won't take a 100 souls next time. It must be just the cost of freedom.
+1
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

So your options are completely fix it immediately or do nothing? There’s no middle ground? Come on.

The odds are good that the shooter broke all sorts of laws, and had a number of people that helped him do it. Those people should be brought to justice. Let’s figure out where the holes are and work to close them. We can have an impact without throwing the baby out with the bath water.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Rip wrote:Well in this case I am expecting there will be something we can do.

I'm going to assume he didn't hold a class 3 license just based on the fact he doesn't fit the profile.

So that means he somehow obtained highly illegal military weapons or obtained conversion parts to alter a legal weapon. Obviously there are some holes in preventing that from happening. We should get right on making sure whatever method he used is far less possible.
I am sure the NRA, its lobby and members will be fine with that sensible and conservative approach.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior »

Isgrimnur wrote:So your options are completely fix it immediately or do nothing? There’s no middle ground? Come on.

The odds are good that the shooter broke all sorts of laws, and had a number of people that helped him do it. Those people should be brought to justice. Let’s figure out where the holes are and work to close them. We can have an impact without throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Not what i said. What I am suggesting is that fixes around the edges using existing law isn't doing anything. Notice I'm not all ban all guns either because well that ship has sailed. I'm saying comprehensive reform. Try something bigger than hope the prayers are answered.

Blue ribbon panels. Meaningful reform. That is all I want to try. That isn't even possible because of our sick twisted and corrupt politics.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur »

Not at the federal level, certainly. Unfortunately, the 2nd Amendment means the feds get to put their nose into every move made at the lower levels.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B »

malchior wrote:Blue ribbon panels. Meaningful reform. That is all I want to try. That isn't even possible because of our sick twisted and corrupt politics.
Wait until the right people start whispering to our fearless leader that Obama removed the ban on gun violence research. I'm sure it'll be dismantled in 24 hours - and what a great time to raise that concern. With all this gun violence.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Enough »

Worth noting that Nevada Senator Dean Heller voted against renewing a ban on assault weapons, voted against limiting the size of magazines to 10 rounds and for good measure voted against a bipartisan proposal to extend background checks. Heller sure knows how to keep his A+ rating with the NRA.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Captain Caveman »

A likely soon-to-be U.S. Senator pulled out a pistol at a political rally last week. Our country has a real sickness, and unfortunately the fear events like today creates increases the attraction people have to guns.
Last edited by Captain Caveman on Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Captain Caveman »

pr0ner wrote:C'mon, man.
My apologies. I guess I'm just feeling despair about the direction recent events have taken us...
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Enough »

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Rip wrote:Well in this case I am expecting there will be something we can do.

I'm going to assume he didn't hold a class 3 license just based on the fact he doesn't fit the profile.

So that means he somehow obtained highly illegal military weapons or obtained conversion parts to alter a legal weapon. Obviously there are some holes in preventing that from happening. We should get right on making sure whatever method he used is far less possible.
I am sure the NRA, its lobby and members will be fine with that sensible and conservative approach.
In all honesty I am thrilled to see a gun nut saying what Rip just did. He wants laws against owning certain types of guns to be aggressively enforced and loopholes closed? Sign me up. Maybe next we can talk with the gun community on where the line on what's appropriate to own for a citizen falls. Clearly Rip feels it's valid to restrict the right to own certain types of guns, now we are just working on defining what that line is.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Rip »

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Rip wrote:Well in this case I am expecting there will be something we can do.

I'm going to assume he didn't hold a class 3 license just based on the fact he doesn't fit the profile.

So that means he somehow obtained highly illegal military weapons or obtained conversion parts to alter a legal weapon. Obviously there are some holes in preventing that from happening. We should get right on making sure whatever method he used is far less possible.
I am sure the NRA, its lobby and members will be fine with that sensible and conservative approach.
I'm an NRA member and I'm fine with it. I think most NRA members would be fine with closing down any methods that allow someone to obtain fully automatic weapons without license. NO ONE wants to see those on the streets.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Enough »

FWIW, Rip is a bit confused here. Gun buyers don't obtain a Class 3 license, the seller does (Federal Firearms Licensee). What an NFA firearms buyer needs is a tax stamp from ATF (and the tax amount hasn't changed since the 1930s).
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Sectoid »

Can I ask a question? I don't post much in R&P because frankly I find it futile.
Here goes. The reasoning I can see from gun owners for owning assault rifles (AR15, etc) is that they are exercising their 2nd amendment right to own firearms in case the government comes to take their guns, land, etc. The question being do you seriously think that you and your buddies stand a goddamn chance against a runaway military budget? What good is even a fully automatic rifle in a civilian's hands when an M1A1 rolls up to your house? Or if they decide to take you out with a predator drone?
Even if it is just the local police. Do you think you stand a chance against a fully trained SWAT team with the military-grade armaments and vehicles they can get now?
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Rip »

Enough wrote:FWIW, Rip is a bit confused here. Gun buyers don't obtain a Class 3 license, the seller does (Federal Firearms Licensee). What an NFA firearms buyer needs is a tax stamp from ATF (and the tax amount hasn't changed since the 1930s).
True, though you have to obtain it from a class 3 dealer. Still extremely hard to obtain and requires a pretty extensive background check. That said is if he did obtain it legally and we need to tighten that system even farther I am all onboard with that. No one not in a warzone needs a fully automatic weapon to defend themselves.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Rip »

Sectoid wrote:Can I ask a question? I don't post much in R&P because frankly I find it futile.
Here goes. The reasoning I can see from gun owners for owning assault rifles (AR15, etc) is that they are exercising their 2nd amendment right to own firearms in case the government comes to take their guns, land, etc. The question being do you seriously think that you and your buddies stand a goddamn chance against a runaway military budget? What good is even a fully automatic rifle in a civilian's hands when an M1A1 rolls up to your house? Or if they decide to take you out with a predator drone?
Even if it is just the local police. Do you think you stand a chance against a fully trained SWAT team with the military-grade armaments and vehicles they can get now?
The government is only one of the things you need to defend yourself from. Plus a 100+ million people with small arms > 6000 tanks. We could barely muster 100 tanks per state.
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