Octopus Overlords

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:53 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:23 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:02 am Normal people don't go shoot other people. Just possessing a gun doesn't make normal people go shoot other people. It's a people problem.

Yeah, all we need to do is fix people. In any event, the bigger issue with the "it's a problem with people argument" is that it doesn't really explain the vast differences in frequency of mass shootings between nations (and really, between the United States and most nations), unless you think there is something uniquely American about shooting a lot of people.

You could have included the next sentence:

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:02 am Granted you can fix access much easier than fixing people so ultimately we probably need to work on both.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:23 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:19 am Fort Hood was two handguns, one being a revolver. 46 shot with 14 fatalaties. On a military base.

Regular military personnel do not carry weapons, and certainly not combat loaded, while on base.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:42 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:53 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:23 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:02 am Normal people don't go shoot other people. Just possessing a gun doesn't make normal people go shoot other people. It's a people problem.

Yeah, all we need to do is fix people. In any event, the bigger issue with the "it's a problem with people argument" is that it doesn't really explain the vast differences in frequency of mass shootings between nations (and really, between the United States and most nations), unless you think there is something uniquely American about shooting a lot of people.

You could have included the next sentence:

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:02 am Granted you can fix access much easier than fixing people so ultimately we probably need to work on both.

Right, but the thing is that I'm not disagreeing with that part (the "do anything that works" part). I'm saying that if "people" (and the fixing thereof) were a part of the problem, you would need to account for why mass shooting rates are disproportionately high in the United States. Presumably either there is something uniquely problematic about people in the United States, or the problem is disproportionately about access to guns rather than "people".

But again, all for any combination of things that works.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:18 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:23 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:19 am Fort Hood was two handguns, one being a revolver. 46 shot with 14 fatalaties. On a military base.

Regular military personnel do not carry weapons, and certainly not combat loaded, while on base.

Of course not. But they have shooter protocols and base security. I think a civilian police officer engaged the shooter within a few minutes but he shot her. Several individuals attempted to subdue the shooter as well, with improvised weapons. Point was that it wasn't a school or concert or theater and a pair of handguns still did that much damage (and could have done a lot more if he hadn't intentionally avoided civilian targets).

Modern firearms are extremely effective at killing. All of them, not just the scary looking rifles.

U.S. Rep. Ralph Norman, R-Rock Hill, told The Post and Courier he pulled out the weapon and placed it on a table for several minutes in attempt to make a point that guns are only dangerous in the hands of criminals. He was speaking to constituents about gun violence during a public meeting at a diner in Rock Hill.

"I'm not going to be a Gabby Giffords," Norman said afterward, referring to a former Arizona congresswoman who was shot outside a Tucson-area grocery store in 2011. "I don't mind dying, but whoever shoots me better shoot well or I'm shooting back."

Lori Carter, who also attended the meeting, said Norman put the gun on the table about 20 minutes in the conversation. She said he had just finished telling the group that gun violence is a mental or emotional issue, not a gun issue.

"And then he chose to take the gun out and put it on the table not knowing if any of us had mental health issues," said Carter, a public school teacher from Charlotte, N.C. "What was to prevent me from leaning across the table to take that gun? So to me, it was contradictory."

Enough wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:19 pm For f'ing f's sake. U.S. Rep. Ralph Norman pulls out loaded gun in constituent meeting to make point about safety

U.S. Rep. Ralph Norman, R-Rock Hill, told The Post and Courier he pulled out the weapon and placed it on a table for several minutes in attempt to make a point that guns are only dangerous in the hands of criminals. He was speaking to constituents about gun violence during a public meeting at a diner in Rock Hill.

"I'm not going to be a Gabby Giffords," Norman said afterward, referring to a former Arizona congresswoman who was shot outside a Tucson-area grocery store in 2011. "I don't mind dying, but whoever shoots me better shoot well or I'm shooting back."

Lori Carter, who also attended the meeting, said Norman put the gun on the table about 20 minutes in the conversation. She said he had just finished telling the group that gun violence is a mental or emotional issue, not a gun issue.

"And then he chose to take the gun out and put it on the table not knowing if any of us had mental health issues," said Carter, a public school teacher from Charlotte, N.C. "What was to prevent me from leaning across the table to take that gun? So to me, it was contradictory."

Enough wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:19 pm For f'ing f's sake. U.S. Rep. Ralph Norman pulls out loaded gun in constituent meeting to make point about safety

U.S. Rep. Ralph Norman, R-Rock Hill, told The Post and Courier he pulled out the weapon and placed it on a table for several minutes in attempt to make a point that guns are only dangerous in the hands of criminals. He was speaking to constituents about gun violence during a public meeting at a diner in Rock Hill.

"I'm not going to be a Gabby Giffords," Norman said afterward, referring to a former Arizona congresswoman who was shot outside a Tucson-area grocery store in 2011. "I don't mind dying, but whoever shoots me better shoot well or I'm shooting back."

Lori Carter, who also attended the meeting, said Norman put the gun on the table about 20 minutes in the conversation. She said he had just finished telling the group that gun violence is a mental or emotional issue, not a gun issue.

"And then he chose to take the gun out and put it on the table not knowing if any of us had mental health issues," said Carter, a public school teacher from Charlotte, N.C. "What was to prevent me from leaning across the table to take that gun? So to me, it was contradictory."

A federal judge on Friday dismissed a lawsuit that challenged Massachusetts’ 20-year ban on assault weapons, delivering a significant victory to gun-control advocates and to Attorney General Maura Healey, who had warned sellers of “copycat” firearms that they risked prosecution.

In his ruling, US District Judge William Young of Massachusetts wrote that the state’s ban on assault weapons and large-capacity magazines does not violate the right to bear arms under the Second Amendment.

“The AR-15 and its analogs, along with large capacity magazines, are simply not weapons within the original meaning of the individual constitutional right to ‘bear Arms,’ ” Young wrote in a 47-page ruling. “In the absence of federal legislation, Massachusetts is free to ban these weapons and large-capacity magazines. Other states are equally free to leave them unregulated and available to their law-abiding citizens. These policy matters are simply not of constitutional moment.”

Young cited a landmark 2008 Supreme Court decision that found that “weapons that are most useful in military service — M-16 rifles and the like” are not protected under the Second Amendment and “may be banned.”

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:06 pm AR-15s aren't useful in military service because they do not support burst or automatic fire.

Gov. Phil Murphy wants you to have better access to info about New Jersey's gun violence -- including where the firearms used in those crimes come from.

Murphy on Friday signed an executive order for the state to issue monthly reports online about gun crimes, showing where they occur, how many people were killed or injured, and the type of weapon involved.

And every three months, New Jersey will publish a report listing the states from which those guns originated.

"If it means naming and shaming other states, that's exactly what we're going do," Murphy, a Democrat, said during a news conference at Asbury Park Middle School.

em2nought wrote: ↑Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:17 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:06 pm AR-15s aren't useful in military service because they do not support burst or automatic fire.

Magazine fed semi-autos are close enough to a military weapon to let "we the people" feel like we'd at least have a shot equal to what the Vietcong had (against our government) if it ever came to it.

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:25 pm

em2nought wrote: ↑Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:17 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:06 pm AR-15s aren't useful in military service because they do not support burst or automatic fire.

Magazine fed semi-autos are close enough to a military weapon to let "we the people" feel like we'd at least have a shot equal to what the Vietcong had (against our government) if it ever came to it.

Did you know Vietnam is a country thousands of miles away? Seriously, it’s true.

em2nought wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:53 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:25 pm

em2nought wrote: ↑Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:17 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:06 pm AR-15s aren't useful in military service because they do not support burst or automatic fire.

Magazine fed semi-autos are close enough to a military weapon to let "we the people" feel like we'd at least have a shot equal to what the Vietcong had (against our government) if it ever came to it.

Did you know Vietnam is a country thousands of miles away? Seriously, it’s true.

...and we could put a man on the moon back then. Today we can't even decide which bathroom to use.

em2nought wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:53 am ...and we could put a man on the moon back then. Today we can't even decide which bathroom to use.

Reagan Stevens, a deputy director in the Mayor’s Office of Criminal Justice, and two young men were arrested for illegal weapons possession while sitting in a double-parked car near the scene of a Saturday night shooting in Queens, cops said.

A loaded, 9mm semi-automatic pistol with its serial number defaced was hidden in the car’s glovebox, and there was a spent shell casing on the floor near Stevens’ feet in the rear of the 2002 dark red Infiniti SUV, law enforcement sources said.

Stevens, Hughes and Forbes were each charged with two counts of criminal possession of a weapon — one for the gun being loaded, another for its illegally obscured serial number — because no one admitted owning the pistol, sources said.

Cops were also weighing charges involving its firing, based on the video that traces the shots to the car, sources said.

Forbes and Hughes also were charged with criminal possession of a weapon related to the knives they allegedly were carrying, and Forbes was also ticketed for double parking, cops said.

Hughes’ rap sheet lists nine prior arrests, six of which are sealed. The others include an October 2010 bust in Queens on robbery and weapons charges, and a July 2016 arrest on firearm, trespassing and harassment charges, sources said.

Stevens has a sealed 2015 arrest that stemmed from allegations of driving illegally, while Forbes has no criminal record, sources said.

Stevens was released on her own recognizance, according to a spokeswoman for the Queens DA’s office. Meanwhile, Forbes was held on $3,500 bail or $7,500 bond, and Hughes was held on $10,000 bail or $20,000 bond. They are due back in court on April 24.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:00 pm And your point is...?

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:16 pm Why do you peop... Ah, I give up. Carry on.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:16 pm Why do you peop... Ah, I give up. Carry on.

• Vermont’s new law raises the minimum age for gun buyers to 21

• Bans bump stocks

• Requires gun transactions to be facilitated by a licensed dealer who would perform background checks

• Limits rifle magazines to 10 rounds

At least one state is showing bipartisan action CAN happen on guns if we have the will, albeit you probably have to be a maple-syrup-loving hippy but hey.

• Vermont’s new law raises the minimum age for gun buyers to 21

• Bans bump stocks

• Requires gun transactions to be facilitated by a licensed dealer who would perform background checks

• Limits rifle magazines to 10 rounds

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:26 am

At least one state is showing bipartisan action CAN happen on guns if we have the will, albeit you probably have to be a maple-syrup-loving hippy but hey.

Not necessarily. Most of these are already on the books in Illinois. With more restrictive laws on the books in various cities and suburbs, or Cook County.

• Vermont’s new law raises the minimum age for gun buyers to 21

- Illinois FOID requirement is 21. Over 18 can apply for FOID with FOID-issued parent sponsorship. 21 age limit for "assault rifles" regardless of FOID status. FOID is required for all firearms and ammunition purchases and possession in the state. Shops in border states also enforce this for Illinois residents.

• Bans bump stocks

- Banned in the state in February I think. Previously banned by common sense, mostly.

• Requires gun transactions to be facilitated by a licensed dealer who would perform background checks

- required in Illinois except for private sales of long guns. Private sales require proof of FOID (FOID requires background check) and 10 year retention of record of sale/transfer.

• Limits rifle magazines to 10 rounds

- no state limit here but in Cook County, Chicago, and many suburbs "assault rifles" are banned outright. Many municipalities also have rifle and handgun magazine limits.

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:14 am Learned two things today

"ammosexual" -- better known as "gun nut", with a negative connotation

Apparently, a bunch of NRA supporters are posting videos of them shooting holes in Yeti cooler products because Yeti cut ties with the NRA.

Rip wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:55 am

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:14 am Learned two things today

"ammosexual" -- better known as "gun nut", with a negative connotation

Apparently, a bunch of NRA supporters are posting videos of them shooting holes in Yeti cooler products because Yeti cut ties with the NRA.

The horror, next thing you know people will boycott restaurants for not catering to their political beliefs. Unthinkable.

GRANT STINCHFIELD (HOST): What amazes me is people have been tweeting at me, these folks on the left, somehow saying this proves that you don’t need a good guy with a gun because James -- if anything, it proves to me that he had more guts, and he was braver without the gun. But clearly if someone was there with a gun, we wouldn’t be having a manhunt right now. It doesn’t take away from the fact that a gun could have been useful in this situation.

[...]

STINCHFIELD: Anybody, whether it was Mr. Shaw, whether it was somebody else, if they had a gun, we wouldn’t be having a manhunt right now. OK? It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun. Yes, a good guy with guts stopped a bad guy with a gun momentarily, but he didn’t stop him permanently. And this guy is still on the loose.

"Your Second Amendment rights are under siege, but they will never, ever be under siege as long as I'm your president," President Trump said during NRA speech.