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Gun Politics

For discussion of religion and politics

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LawBeefaroni
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:46 am

Punisher wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:15 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:39 pm
Punisher wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:45 pm
I think the hoopla is because they are concerned that it will make it easier for criminals to get access to illegal guns..
All it takes is a few hundred dollars to get an illegal gun. Cheaper than a 3d printer.
The 3D printed one will also be untraceable and, if printed n all plastic, harder to detect with metal detectors.
Polymer 80s are untracable. So are home made AR15s. There are a ton of legal, untracable guns out there that weren't 3d printed.

A gun printed in all plastic will last for one or two shots. I guess if we're concerned about assassinations I can see why it's so scary. Maybe? Plus they're illegal to produce. So anyone printing an all plastic gun is breaking the law.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Rip » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:31 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:43 pm
Don't be obtuse.

The point being that you don't shoot people with your printer, you shoot them with the hundreds of guns you print from it at a fraction of the cost. If not now, then soon.
You think some law that says distributing the files is going to stop it? Just like piracy laws stopped software piracy?

:roll:

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:26 am

Yeah, that's what I said.

:roll:

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Rip » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:48 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:26 am
Yeah, that's what I said.

:roll:
Fine then let's focus on what you said. So I print hundreds of guns with one printer. How many bullets can I fire from each gun I print? Two? Maybe half a dozen at most. I can take a $50 street gun and shoot thousands of rounds through it. At the end of the day this entire issue is about people overreacting to something that isn't even a substantial threat and never will be. There isn't going to be a bunch of plastic guns running around whether the files are out there or not.

The real crime is that the courts are wasting time and resources on this silly crap.

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Rip » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:03 am




:lol:

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by em2nought » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:02 am

Rip wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:03 am



:lol:
I don't like CETMEs, they feel so freakin' huge.

The only "real" bad thing about printing guns is that you might end up buying something crappy on the used market. Folks here should like that, second hand sales of firearms becoming dangerous. I'd think it would drive more buyers to legitimate sources actually.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by wonderpug » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:10 am

Just throwing this out there. In an AR-15 style gun, the receiver part circled in red is the only part that is considered a firearm when you are purchasing parts:
Enlarge Image

You can be a drug addict convicted felon fugitive from justice renounced citizen and buy all the other parts legally. When you want that final receiver piece, if you're not in the mood to trust a 3d-printed version you can instead buy an "80% lower". It's a receiver that's 80% of the way to being manufactured, just short of being considered a firearm. There are kits available (legally) to make it as easy as possible for you to do the last 20% of manufacturing.

This route isn't anywhere near as inexpensive per-gun as the fully 3d printed guns people are worried about, but this route gives you a fully functional real AR-15. If the primary concern is "people will be able to make their own untraceable firearms", we've already had that problem for years.

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:16 am

em2nought wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:02 am
Rip wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:03 am



:lol:
I don't like CETMEs, they feel so freakin' huge.

The only "real" bad thing about printing guns is that you might end up buying something crappy on the used market. Folks here should like that, second hand sales of firearms becoming dangerous. I'd think it would drive more buyers to legitimate sources actually.
Riiiight, to legit guns like KelTec and Hi Point? :lol:

Anyway, there is no used market for printed firearms; you can't legally sell home made guns. If they are unserialed, you can own them but they can never be sold legally.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by em2nought » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:17 am

wonderpug wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:10 am
If the primary concern is "people will be able to make their own untraceable firearms", we've already had that problem for years.
There are entire forums dedicated to making AKs from parts kits. You just have to manufacture the lower receiver from a readily available blank, or buy a completed one, which is sold with the same checks as an actual firearm, for around $60. Making a lower receive mostly just involves spot welding two rails in place.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Max Peck » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:32 pm

Someone doesn't seem to be a fan. At least he makes it clear where he gets his marching orders on the issue.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:40 pm

What doesn't make much sense? That he spoke to the NRA? Their response? That his own DOJ gave the green light to Defense Distributed (and even paid them for their trouble)?

Incidentally, plastic guns are not "being sold to the public." Plans for 3D printed guns/gun parts are being made available for purchase.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:48 pm

The NRA is possibly against plastic guns! Imagine my shock. It is almost like they are a gun manufacturers' lobby or something! Oops I mean a group of concerned citizens.

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Max Peck » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:50 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:40 pm
Incidentally, plastic guns are not "being sold to the public."
Fake news!

Enlarge Image
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by em2nought » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:19 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:16 am


Riiiight, to legit guns like KelTec and Hi Point? :lol:

Anyway, there is no used market for printed firearms; you can't legally sell home made guns. If they are unserialed, you can own them but they can never be sold legally.
Those KelTec bullpups look good, both the .308 rifle and the shotgun. I wish they would be as good as they look. My 9mm certainly wasn't, but that was from the 90's so maybe they've improved. The reviews I've seen have been ok.

I forgot for a minute that you can't buy a home built from someone else, duh. :doh:
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Jeff V » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:24 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:40 pm
Incidentally, plastic guns are not "being sold to the public." Plans for 3D printed guns/gun parts are being made available for purchase.
That was my first thought.

I read yesterday that printed guns are kind of prone to blowing up. I smell a Tide Pod challenge coming up...how many bullets can your printed gun fire before it blows up and takes you out?

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by hepcat » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:49 pm

It takes a rare form of stupid to trust a firearm you've downloaded off the internet and printed at home.

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by em2nought » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:09 pm

hepcat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:49 pm
It takes a rare form of stupid to trust a firearm you've downloaded off the internet and printed at home.
We've sent people off to war with a rifle designed by a convicted murderer so... :think:
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by hepcat » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:41 am

So now you’re calling our soldiers stupid for using rifles designed by a convicted criminal even though it was extensively tested and made by human hands? :think:
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by malchior » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:47 am

em2nought wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:09 pm
hepcat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:49 pm
It takes a rare form of stupid to trust a firearm you've downloaded off the internet and printed at home.
We've sent people off to war with a rifle designed by a convicted murderer so... :think:
Besides the convicted murderer thing making absolutely no sense it seems like he had...ahem...material expertise.

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Paingod » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:05 am

Punisher wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:22 am
I firmly believe that once the technology actually gets there, it will be cheaper and easier to 3D print a lot of things.
FTFY.

And, as an added bonus, with the plans in the wild, they'll never really die and new versions will come around regularly.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:38 am

Scanner software and drivers have blocks that refuse to scan US currency, presumably to combat counterfeiting.

Off the shelf 3D printers may include something similar for firearms and maybe evern patent protection.

Obviously there will be workarounds, just like with scanners and money, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by wonderpug » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:14 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:38 am
Scanner software and drivers have blocks that refuse to scan US currency, presumably to combat counterfeiting.

Off the shelf 3D printers may include something similar for firearms and maybe evern patent protection.

Obviously there will be workarounds, just like with scanners and money, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.
Hi, I'm Clippy! It looks like you're trying to print an illegal firearm. Would you like help?

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by UsulofDoom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:28 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:38 am
Scanner software and drivers have blocks that refuse to scan US currency, presumably to combat counterfeiting.

Off the shelf 3D printers may include something similar for firearms and maybe evern patent protection.

Obviously there will be workarounds, just like with scanners and money, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.
Ebay and other sites are full of scanned US currency for sale.

Since you can by kits for 3d printers any blocking tried would just hurt commercial enterprises.

A lot of 3d printers can be made using off the self parts. The code is open source.

You could use a Arduino.

[url]https://all3dp.com/1/diy-arduino-3d-printer/[url]

I have yet to see a 3d printed gun reviewed to work reliably , accurately or even if deadly.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:48 pm

Like I said, there are work-arounds. But off the shelf, scanners and photo copiers (and Photoshop) all block it.

These kinds of blocks aren't always well thought out (remember all the stupid copy protection stuff?). Doesn't mean they won't try.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Jeff V » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:19 pm

Paingod wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:05 am
Punisher wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:22 am
I firmly believe that once the technology actually gets there, it will be cheaper and easier to 3D print a lot of things.
FTFY.

And, as an added bonus, with the plans in the wild, they'll never really die and new versions will come around regularly.
Maybe it will become possible to download plans for printing Kevlar t-shirts.

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:55 am

Rolling Stone
The National Rifle Association warns that it is in grave financial jeopardy, according to a recent court filing obtained by Rolling Stone, and that it could soon “be unable to exist… or pursue its advocacy mission.” (Read the NRA’s legal complaint at the bottom of this story.)

The reason, according to the NRA filing, is not its deep entanglement with alleged Russian agents like Maria Butina. Instead, the gun group has been suing New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and the state’s financial regulators since May, claiming the NRA has been subject to a state-led “blacklisting campaign” that has inflicted “tens of millions of dollars in damages.”

In the new document — an amended complaint filed in U.S. District Court in late July — the NRA says it cannot access financial services essential to its operations and is facing “irrecoverable loss and irreparable harm.”

Specifically, the NRA warns that it has lost insurance coverage — endangering day-to-day operations. “Insurance coverage is necessary for the NRA to continue its existence,” the complaint reads. Without general liability coverage, it adds, the “NRA cannot maintain its physical premises, convene off-site meetings and events, operate educational programs … or hold rallies, conventions and assemblies.”

The complaint says the NRA’s video streaming service and magazines may soon shut down.
...
In addition to its insurance troubles, the NRA court filing also claims that “abuses” by Cuomo and the New York State Department of Financial Services “will imminently deprive the NRA of basic bank-depository services … and other financial services essential to the NRA’s corporate existence.”
...
The lawsuit stems from actions taken by New York financial regulators to halt the sale of an illegal, NRA-branded insurance policy. The NRA actively marketed “Carry Guard,” a policy to reimburse members for legal costs incurred after firing a legal gun. In May, the state of New York found that Carry Guard “unlawfully provided liability insurance to gun owners for certain acts of intentional wrongdoing.” The NRA’s insurance partners agreed to stop selling the policies and pay a $7 million fine.
...
According to the NRA, the “conspiracy” has been effective. This winter, its longtime insurer broke off negotiations and “stated that it was unwilling to renew coverage at any price.” [Emphasis in original.] The NRA claims it “has encountered serious difficulties obtaining corporate insurance coverage to replace coverage withdrawn.” In addition, the NRA contends that “multiple banks” have now balked at doing business with it “based on concerns that any involvement with the NRA — even providing the organization with basic depository services —would expose them to regulatory reprisals.”
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:01 pm

Carry Guard was stuoid. There were plenty of options out there, it was just the NRA going for a money grab.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Fitzy » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:24 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:01 pm
Carry Guard was stuoid. There were plenty of options out there, it was just the NRA going for a money grab.
So one might say they shot themselves in the foot?

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Punisher » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:12 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:48 pm
Like I said, there are work-arounds. But off the shelf, scanners and photo copiers (and Photoshop) all block it.

These kinds of blocks aren't always well thought out (remember all the stupid copy protection stuff?). Doesn't mean they won't try.
I have never heard of this and will have to test it this weekend
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:58 pm

Punisher wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:12 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:48 pm
Like I said, there are work-arounds. But off the shelf, scanners and photo copiers (and Photoshop) all block it.

These kinds of blocks aren't always well thought out (remember all the stupid copy protection stuff?). Doesn't mean they won't try.
I have never heard of this and will have to test it this weekend
Use a new-ish $5 or higher. See "Eurion Constellation".
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Paingod » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:21 pm

wonderpug wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:10 am
Just throwing this out there. In an AR-15 style gun, the receiver part circled in red is the only part that is considered a firearm when you are purchasing parts:
Enlarge Image

You can be a drug addict convicted felon fugitive from justice renounced citizen and buy all the other parts legally. When you want that final receiver piece, if you're not in the mood to trust a 3d-printed version you can instead buy an "80% lower". It's a receiver that's 80% of the way to being manufactured, just short of being considered a firearm. There are kits available (legally) to make it as easy as possible for you to do the last 20% of manufacturing.

This route isn't anywhere near as inexpensive per-gun as the fully 3d printed guns people are worried about, but this route gives you a fully functional real AR-15. If the primary concern is "people will be able to make their own untraceable firearms", we've already had that problem for years.
You know, for as "easy" as it sounds to get an AR-15 into the hands of a felon, I can't recall a single story I've heard where a self-made AR was used in the crime. Everything we hear about is legally purchased.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:46 pm

I think we were talking about this a page ot two ago.


Also keep in mind that AR15s aren't really a good weapon for committing crime. They're difficult to conceal and dispose of. Of course you can get a Glock clone polymer 80 just like an 80% lower but they aren't used much in crimes either. Mostly because it's cheaper to buy a cheap, manufactured gun than it is to build one from scratch. A G19 clone barrel alone will set you back more than a complete cheapie with the same specs. And considering that most guns used in crimes are stolen, they're even cheaper on the street.
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by Smoove_B » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:03 pm

For those keeping track: It's acceptable to use federal funding to buy guns for teachers. It is not acceptable to use federal funding for children or women's health. JFC.
The Education Department is considering whether to allow states to use federal funding to purchase guns for educators, according to multiple people with knowledge of the plan.

Such a move appears to be unprecedented, reversing a longstanding position taken by the federal government that it should not pay to outfit schools with weapons. And it would also undermine efforts by Congress to restrict the use of federal funding on guns. As recently as March, Congress passed a school safety bill that allocated $50 million a year to local school districts, but expressly prohibited the use of the money for firearms.

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by em2nought » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:35 pm

NPR says the US gov't has been inflating the number of reported school shootings by 66%. WOW

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by hepcat » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:41 pm

Isn't NPR one of those "fake news" outlets to you Trumpers? Make up your mind, for cryin' out loud! :mrgreen:
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by em2nought » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:48 pm

hepcat wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:41 pm
Isn't NPR one of those "fake news" outlets to you Trumpers? Make up your mind, for cryin' out loud! :mrgreen:
Saw it on Breibart, but thought y'all would prefer the original source which I actually went to in order to confirm as it seems like a complete betrayal of all they stand for to report this. lol :wink: Are they trying to become a source of legitimate news? It sure would be welcome. :mrgreen:
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by hepcat » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:17 pm

That's even worse. A known Trump licker is also confused over what's fake news now.

Weird times. What's next? Mexico pays for a wall? North Korea doesn't lie to grandpa Donald? Trump tells the truth accidentally?
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Re: Gun Politics

Post by YellowKing » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:23 pm

Whether or not the mass shooting takes place in a school or not is completely irrelevant to the problem.

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by gameoverman » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:44 pm

Education money for guns...I'm embarrassed for anyone who'd even consider this on a 'what if' basis.

For one thing, guns are worthless without a person to fire the weapon. So school district Small Town USA spends $10k on guns, guns which just sit there in storage. Or are they going to pair this with a law compelling school staff to Pick Up That Weapon, Maggot! Does the school district spend more educational funding paying for firearms training? Or is there going to be a law compelling school staff to pay for their own damn training? When an employee accidentally shoots someone, who pays for that?

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Re: Gun Politics

Post by LawBeefaroni » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:03 pm

gameoverman wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:44 pm
Education money for guns...I'm embarrassed for anyone who'd even consider this on a 'what if' basis.

For one thing, guns are worthless without a person to fire the weapon. So school district Small Town USA spends $10k on guns, guns which just sit there in storage. Or are they going to pair this with a law compelling school staff to Pick Up That Weapon, Maggot! Does the school district spend more educational funding paying for firearms training? Or is there going to be a law compelling school staff to pay for their own damn training? When an employee accidentally shoots someone, who pays for that?
They're "considering it." Hopefully less idiotic heads prevail and they don't do it. But this is the Fed Ed. Run by the woman whose brother made his fortune in Blackwater. Which is all about guns.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

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