Holy moly... Scalia dead.

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LordMortis
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by LordMortis »

He offered no reason for his decision
not wanting to cite pressure from the republican party
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

A poll of Republicans in super Tuesday states
Only a slim majority of the likely Republican primary voters are supportive of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's position in opposition to holding confirmation hearings prior to November's election for a President Barack Obama appointee to fill the spot of deceased Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.
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Rip
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Rip »

A lack of support for something they want has never stopped them before.

Why start now?
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Grifman
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Grifman »

My principled position is that elections have consequences. Obama is still president until his term ends, and one of his duties is to submit for appointment a Supreme Court nominee when a vacancy occurs. The Constitution says nothing about no appointments in the last year of a president's terms, so Republicans are going against the Constitution which they claim to revere. They should hold hearings and give the nominee a vote. And I would say the same thing if there were a Republican president and a Democratic Senate.

That said, the Democrats are hypocrites. Biden, Reid, Leahy, and Schumer have all previously said that a president shouldn't nominate someone to the Supreme Court in the last year of his term of office, or because it would tilt the balance of the court. And Obama tried to filibuster Alito (for which he recently expressed regret - sure, now he does :) ) So I'm not exactly sympathetic to Democratic whining on this either.

Then again, on the hypocrisy scale, we can also find Mitch McConnell himself who said in 1970 in the Kentucky Law Review:
“The President is presumably elected by the people to carry out a program and altering the ideological directions of the Supreme Court would seem to be a perfectly legitimate part of a Presidential platform. To that end, the Constitution gives to him the power to nominate.”

“Even though the Senate has at various times made purely political decisions in its consideration of Supreme Court nominees, certainly it could not be successfully argued that this is an acceptable practice.”
The problem is that people only want the "rules" to apply to them when they have the power. And this is what is producing dysfunction in our govt. It's very hard for the govt to work when the rules change depending upon which party is in power. No wonder the American people are disillusioned by the process and looking towards an idiot like Trump. I won't vote for him but the current powers that be are not helping the situation.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

Maybe congress shouldn't vote on anything until after the election, so that the people have a voice in the process.

Who am I kidding... Would anyone actually notice the difference?
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Smoove_B
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Smoove_B »

When you think about Dow Chemical being willing to pay $835 million dollars in fines rather than have their case heard over price fixing without Scalia present, it only reinforces just how important the appointment is.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Grifman
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Grifman »

Defiant wrote:Maybe congress shouldn't vote on anything until after the election, so that the people have a voice in the process.
The people had a voice in the process when the President and Senate were last elected. Why do you hate the Constitution? :)
Last edited by Grifman on Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

Grifman wrote:
Defiant wrote:Maybe congress shouldn't vote on anything until after the election, so that the people have a voice in the process.
The people had a voice in the process when the President and Senate were last elected. Why do you have the Constitution? :)
Pfft, the constitution. It was created prior to when the first senate was convened. They should have waited until after the first Senate elections, so that the people would have a voice in the process. :horse:
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Chrisoc13
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Chrisoc13 »

LordMortis wrote:
He offered no reason for his decision
not wanting to cite pressure from the republican party
Probably not wanting to be a toy in this stupid game by both parties. Used by the D's to simply sick it to the R's and pressure by the R's to not create a scene for them. Nominating him smells like being games by both parties.
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Zarathud
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Zarathud »

If the Republican Senate refuses Obama's SCOTUS nominee to "let the voters decide" then the Republican Party ignores the primary vote...or the Presidential election is decided by Congress, America will have a worse Constitutional crisis than Bush v Gore.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

Defiant wrote:A poll of Republicans in super Tuesday states
Only a slim majority of the likely Republican primary voters are supportive of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's position in opposition to holding confirmation hearings prior to November's election for a President Barack Obama appointee to fill the spot of deceased Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.
More bad news for Republicans: Anger Over Supreme Court Vacancy Could Expand 2016 Senate Map
New Public Policy Polling surveys in Arizona, Iowa, Missouri, and North Carolina find that voter anger over their Republican Senators’ unwillingness to consider a replacement for Antonin Scalia on the Supreme Court could help make those seats competitive for Democrats this fall.
tl/dr version: The republicans have mediocre approval ratings. Strong majorities of voters (Democrats + Independents) want the seat filled. And even Republicans say they think not even considering a nominee is too extreme a position.
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

President Barack Obama is likely to announce either Judge Sri Srinivasan or Judge Merrick Garland as his pick for U.S. Supreme Court nominee and the announcement could come as early as Wednesday, a source familiar with the selection process said on Tuesday.
link
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El Guapo
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by El Guapo »

I'm hoping for Srinivasan from what I've read about him. Though I'm not sure whether America is ready for a justice who is neither jewish nor catholic.
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AWS260
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by AWS260 »

Nomination is scheduled for 11am today. I'm crossing my fingers that it will be Larry David.
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

What I want is someone who is qualified, and also on the left side of the spectrum (that is, center left or mainstream left). From what little I've read (so I could be wrong) these two sound like they're in the middle.
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Smoove_B »

El Guapo wrote:I'm hoping for Srinivasan from what I've read about him. Though I'm not sure whether America is ready for a justice who is neither jewish nor catholic.
If it is, I'm guessing the frothing over Obama trying to have Sharia Law in place before November will start up nearly immediately.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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El Guapo
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by El Guapo »

Smoove_B wrote:
El Guapo wrote:I'm hoping for Srinivasan from what I've read about him. Though I'm not sure whether America is ready for a justice who is neither jewish nor catholic.
If it is, I'm guessing the frothing over Obama trying to have Sharia Law in place before November will start up nearly immediately.
Obama wants to impose Hindu law on America! Start hoarding hamburgers!!!
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Isgrimnur »

Merrick Garland
There's your winner.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
malchior
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by malchior »

Great pick considering Hatch just endorsed him days ago. The Republicans have set themselves up to look very unhinged in the face of reason. Whigs party of 2?
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

The point is not that Judge Garland is conservative. None of the candidates under serious consideration is. Rather, there are gradations between the views of the three, and there are questions on which they would disagree. On a number of issues, particularly those related to criminal law, Judge Garland is the least likely to adopt a liberal position. There are, however, some potential counter-examples involving the First Amendment and environmental law.
http://www.scotusblog.com/2010/04/the-p ... k-garland/
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Smoove_B »

And the official response from Senator McConnell is here:
“As Chairman Grassley and I declared weeks ago, and reiterated personally to President Obama, the Senate will continue to observe the Biden Rule so that the American people have a voice in this momentous decision.

“The American people may well elect a President who decides to nominate Judge Garland for Senate consideration. The next President may also nominate someone very different. Either way, our view is this: Give the people a voice in the filling of this vacancy.
Petulant children. This is why Trump is happening. This is exactly why.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Zaxxon
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Zaxxon »

So long as McConnell & Co also recuse anyone in the senate/house whose seat is up for reelection this November from casting any further votes before the election, we cool.

...

Oh, what's that you say? They're not doing that? Oh.
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by GreenGoo »

Smoove_B wrote:And the official response from Senator McConnell is here:
“As Chairman Grassley and I declared weeks ago, and reiterated personally to President Obama, the Senate will continue to observe the Biden Rule so that the American people have a voice in this momentous decision.

“The American people may well elect a President who decides to nominate Judge Garland for Senate consideration. The next President may also nominate someone very different. Either way, our view is this: Give the people a voice in the filling of this vacancy.
Petulant children. This is why Trump is happening. This is exactly why.
Does he realize that the next president is either going to be Hillary or Trump? Which one of those would he prefer nominate the next justice, as compared to Obama's nominations?

It's like the train's coming and he refuses to get off the tracks.
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

GreenGoo wrote: Does he realize that the next president is either going to be Hillary or Trump? Which one of those would he prefer nominate the next justice, as compared to Obama's nominations?

It's like the train's coming from both directions and he refuses to get off the tracks.
FTFY.

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malchior
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by malchior »

Anyone who doesn't think the Republicans are the vast majority of the current problem are out of their minds. Luckily they won't likely be around much longer.
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Zarathud »

Clinton is going to cite the McConnell rule that a new President gets whoever the fuck they want after getting elected. And she's going to nominate a hard liberal as Mitch rues this moment.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Jag »

Smoove_B wrote:And the official response from Senator McConnell is here:
“As Chairman Grassley and I declared weeks ago, and reiterated personally to President Obama, the Senate will continue to observe the Biden Rule so that the American people have a voice in this momentous decision.

“The American people may well elect a President who decides to nominate Judge Garland for Senate consideration. The next President may also nominate someone very different. Either way, our view is this: Give the people a voice in the filling of this vacancy.
Petulant children. This is why Trump is happening. This is exactly why.
I'm pretty sure the American people already elected a sitting President. I think it is unconstitutional for Senators to shirk their sworn duty. Obama is such a pussy though. He should be calling each person out who refuses to meet with Garland.
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Smoove_B »

It's absolutely disgusting. But I guess as long as it's my team that's deflating the football everything is super.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Isgrimnur »

Oh, I imagine that this dog and pony show is just getting started.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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GreenGoo
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by GreenGoo »

Honestly I see Obama more willing to come up with a compromise both sides can live with better than either Hillary or Trump, and when I say Trump, I mean that Trump is not going to pick someone Republicans are happy about.

i.e. an Obama nomination is better for Republicans than either a Clinton or Trump nomination.

Trump has never been a Republican. Ever.
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

Some Republicans are saying they will meet with Garland:

Kirk (IL)
Ayotte (NH)
Flake (AZ)
Collins (ME)
Inhofe (OK)
Portman (OH)

(3 of which have elections this year, and two of those are likely tossups with the third a lean R)

I still think he should have chosen someone a little less centrist.
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Kraken »

Defiant wrote:
I still think he should have chosen someone a little less centrist.
What better way to twist the knife than by making them oppose a centrist white male? That blows up in his face if the Republicans break their promise and vote to confirm...but then they have to break their promise. Either way, the R Party takes a hit.
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El Guapo
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by El Guapo »

Defiant wrote:Some Republicans are saying they will meet with Garland:

Kirk (IL)
Ayotte (NH)
Flake (AZ)
Collins (ME)
Inhofe (OK)
Portman (OH)

(3 of which have elections this year, and two of those are likely tossups with the third a lean R)

I still think he should have chosen someone a little less centrist.
Ahhh, now we're defining reasonable in a GOP context down to "willing to meet with a Supreme Court nominee".
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by msteelers »

Even the folks on Fox News Radio were saying that McConnell's plan was awful and that they should at least hold hearings.
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

Kraken wrote:
Defiant wrote:
I still think he should have chosen someone a little less centrist.
What better way to twist the knife than by making them oppose a centrist white male? That blows up in his face if the Republicans break their promise and vote to confirm...but then they have to break their promise. Either way, the R Party takes a hit.
I don't think you play games with supreme court nominations for potential cheap victories, given that it's a lifetime appointment with lots of consequence.
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Defiant
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Defiant »

Well, there goes that nomination
Spoiler:
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Sources also confirmed that McConnell later wrapped Garland’s severed right hand in his judicial robes and mailed the package to potential nominee Sri Srinivasan.
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Rip
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Rip »

No way they confirm anyone who they aren't sure won't overturn DC -vs-Heller.

Never happen.
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AWS260
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by AWS260 »

Now some Republicans are saying that if Hillary wins, they would consider holding hearings and a vote during the lame duck session.

Let me see if I can follow the logic here: The Senate should not consider the President's nominee, because it's an election year and the American people should be given a "voice" in the process. But if the Republicans in the Senate don't like what the American people have to say, then they will ignore that "voice" and move the nomination forward.

OK then.
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Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Zarathud »

No way that happens. Garland will be asked to withdraw first. If Hillary wins, they get a "commie pinko" nominee from Hillary and choke on her mandate.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
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Rip
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Re: Holy moly... Scalia dead.

Post by Rip »

I think the entire thing is aimed at the election itself.

2nd amendment support runs deep and as long as that is a key election issue people will vote for Trump who otherwise might not.

Bold but smart political move going into the election.
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