The politics of bathrooms

[Isgrimnur]

He's dressing as a woman to shoplift by using the bathrooms.

[El Guapo]

He's dressing as a woman to shoplift by using the bathrooms.

Ahhh, good job. My best guess was that he had switched his shopping to Amazon.

[Zarathud]

That's ok -- Target security is making its money back by selling videos of em2 undressing in the women's bathrooms on the internet.

[em2nought]

That's ok -- Target security is making its money back by selling videos of em2 undressing in the women's bathrooms on the internet.

Anyone paying for that is going to be disappointed at best. Especially since some of my earlier work is available for free from websites like pornhub.

[Andrew Wonser]

Wait you mean you are an attractive young woman, currently in my area, looking for a quick hook-up?

[Smoove_B]

Former N.C. governor can't find a job

McCrory said in an interview with a World Radio podcast, according to the News & Observer, that the backlash following the law “has impacted me to this day, even after I left office. People are reluctant to hire me, because ‘oh my gosh, he’s a bigot’ — which is the last thing I am.”

[coopasonic]

Former N.C. governor can't find a job

McCrory said in an interview with a World Radio podcast, according to the News & Observer, that the backlash following the law “has impacted me to this day, even after I left office. People are reluctant to hire me, because ‘oh my gosh, he’s a bigot’ — which is the last thing I am.”

Umm... is that a sarcastic sad face? please?

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, sorry, it absolutely is. He should be hired as a bathroom attendant somewhere based on all his knowledge.

[Isgrimnur]

Texas

The Texas Senate on Tuesday tentatively signed off on the “bathroom bill” on a 21-10 vote with one Democrat — state Sen. Eddie Lucio Jr. of Brownsville — voting in favor of the bill.
...
The vote on the controversial legislation came after a four-and-a-half-hour debate over the bill’s impact on an already vulnerable population, the need for uniform bathroom policies across the state and whether the proposed regulations would actually deter men from entering women’s restrooms.

Before passing the bill, senators considered 22 amendments. Republican senators joined the bill's author, state Sen. Lois Kolkhorst, R-Brenham, in rejecting all but three amendments that make minor tweaks to the legislation but did not alter the main bathroom policies proposed in the legislation.
...
“I think the people of Texas expect boundaries between gender,” Kolkhorst said.

This prompted a long line of questioning from Democrats who insisted that the legislation was a solution in search of a problem and would lead to unnecessary economic fallout.
...
Democrats also raised concerns about the legislation’s “unintended consequences,” with San Antonio Democrats raising concerns about the 2018 Men’s Final Four slated to be held in San Antonio. And they pointed to warnings from tourism officials from across the state that the legislation is already causing organizations to reconsider planned events in their cities — a move that could cost each of them millions of dollars.

While insisting that her proposal was carefully crafted to avoid cancellations, Kolkhorst said that she believed sports associations’ “threats are real” but she insisted that the NCAA and the NFL shouldn’t be “dictating policies” for states.

[mmmintu]

Hello
I am mmmintu I have to thank you for this community and his member because they given me a member of this forums that is why thanks.

Thank you

[Jaymann]

Just be careful which bathroom the community takes his member into.

[Isgrimnur]

Mmmintu, I have come to bargain!

[Rip]

Sorry this facility is for those without members.

[Smoove_B]

Apparently it was a late night in North Carolina, because they're proposing some changes today:

The new proposal would repeal HB2 but would leave state legislators in charge of policy on public multi-stall restrooms. Local governments also couldn't pass ordinances extending nondiscrimination protections in private employment and in places such as hotels and restaurants covering categories like sexual orientation and gender identity until December 2020. That temporary moratorium, according to GOP House Speaker Tim Moore and Senate leader Phil Berger, would allow time for pending federal litigation over transgender issues to play out.

"Compromise requires give and take from all sides, and we are pleased this proposal fully protects bathroom safety and privacy," Berger and Moore said in a statement. It's not clear whether the NCAA would be satisfied by the changes.

Since apparently this isn't about anything other than chasing NCAA $$$, I hope the NCAA tells them to get stuffed.

An Associated Press analysis this week found that HB2 already will cost the state more than $3.76 billion in lost business over a dozen years.

[Carpet_pissr]

Hello, mmmintu, I am Baymax. It is customary among our people to give members to newcomers, such as yourself. Enjoy the member well, and cherish it every day by rubbing it 54 times with ritualistic fervor. Welcome to the Member's Only club!

[msteelers]

Mmmintu, I have come to bargain!

Winner

[Isgrimnur]

[YellowKing]

The NC GOP is at it again, filing frivolous bills right and left.

The first looks to once again ban gay marriage.

The bill says the Supreme Court not only overstepped their power in North Carolina but also overstepped the “the decree of Almighty God that ‘a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24, ESV)'”

These are the kinds of religious fucknuts running my state.

The second bill I call the "I'll take my ball and go home" bill. They've introduced a bill that would require UNC-Chapel Hill and NC State to leave the ACC conference should the ACC ever boycott the state again.

(I'm assuming) both of these bills don't have a chance in hell and that Cooper has the veto power to kill them outright, but it still reaffirms my choice not to vote for any of these psychos.

[Jeff V]

The NC GOP is at it again, filing frivolous bills right and left.

Sounds to me like they are mostly filling right and further right. Not much left in those examples.

[Max Peck]

The NC GOP is at it again, filing frivolous bills right and left.

The first looks to once again ban gay marriage.

The bill says the Supreme Court not only overstepped their power in North Carolina but also overstepped the “the decree of Almighty God that ‘a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24, ESV)'”

These are the kinds of religious fucknuts running my state.

These kinds of fucknuts?

A day after setting off one firestorm, a Cabarrus County lawmaker set off another Wednesday by calling Abraham Lincoln “the same sort (of) tyrant” as Adolf Hitler.

Republican Rep. Larry Pittman of Cabarrus County made the comparison in a Facebook post in response to a comment criticizing a bill he’d introduced that would nullify the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision on same-sex marriage in North Carolina.

In his post, Pittman said North Carolina should uphold traditional marriage “in spite of the opinion of a federal court.”

“And if Hitler had won, should the world just get over it?” he wrote. “Lincoln was the same sort if (sic) tyrant, and personally responsible for the deaths of over 800,000 Americans in a war that was unnecessary and unconstitutional.”

[gbasden]

These kinds of fucknuts?

A day after setting off one firestorm, a Cabarrus County lawmaker set off another Wednesday by calling Abraham Lincoln “the same sort (of) tyrant” as Adolf Hitler.

Republican Rep. Larry Pittman of Cabarrus County made the comparison in a Facebook post in response to a comment criticizing a bill he’d introduced that would nullify the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision on same-sex marriage in North Carolina.

In his post, Pittman said North Carolina should uphold traditional marriage “in spite of the opinion of a federal court.”

“And if Hitler had won, should the world just get over it?” he wrote. “Lincoln was the same sort if (sic) tyrant, and personally responsible for the deaths of over 800,000 Americans in a war that was unnecessary and unconstitutional.”

Once again, I'm questioning the wisdom of fighting. Wishing them well and helping them pack seems like it might have been the better option.

[Moliere]

At Cromwell High, Transgender Athlete Competes With Girls For First Time

Moving forward, Andraya will start the long process toward sex reassignment surgery. She will next begin by taking puberty blockers and, later, hormone blockers.

No surgery and no hormone therapy. Just a guy who decides he's now a girl. Now he competes against and crushes the girls in track and field. How is this a fair competition?

[Smoove_B]

How is this a fair competition?

Seriously! Some people will do anything to win.

[Daehawk]

Most are easy to fix or leave alone.

Bathrooms - Dont build multi stall ones. Build multiple single use bathrooms.

Marriage - Mind your own business and allow equality for all.

Its sports and competition I see a problem. Allow them to compete together is not fair nor will it ever be. Try to separate them into their own sports together and a shit storm will erupt. I dont see an easy fix for competitive sports and transgender. Its like that boxing guy that said he was a girl and nearly killed some female boxer.

[Moliere]

How is this a fair competition?

Seriously! Some people will do anything to win.

This is not about everyone getting a participation trophy and no winners are declared. Organized sports have winners and losers. A guy with no female hormone therapy is going to have a competitive advantage over the girls. That's why most sports are split by gender.

[YellowKing]

Yeah, it's uncharted territory. However, we're talking a really small number of people. A fraction of the population that is transgender and then another fraction of those that are athletes.

It will have to be dealt with at some level, but I think the risk is high for the sports inequality factor to be used as a weapon against transgender rights in other areas.

[El Guapo]

North Carolina Residents Terrified After Hearing State Passed New Law

RALEIGH, NC—Saying they didn’t even want to think about what the legislation might possibly authorize or prohibit, North Carolina residents expressed feelings of deep-seated terror Thursday after hearing their state had passed a new law. “Oh God, this can’t be good,” said Raleigh resident Jennifer Mathis, echoing the sentiment of overwhelming dismay felt by citizens across the state upon learning their legislature had passed a bill and their governor had subsequently signed it into law. “I read the words ‘North Carolina Passes Law’ and my heart just sank. And it looks like they approved it really quickly, too. Christ, this is horrifying.” Several reports indicate that after skimming the first line of an article, the residents of North Carolina had quickly shut down their computers and backed away in fear.

[El Guapo]

How is this a fair competition?

Seriously! Some people will do anything to win.

This is not about everyone getting a participation trophy and no winners are declared. Organized sports have winners and losers. A guy with no female hormone therapy is going to have a competitive advantage over the girls. That's why most sports are split by gender.

It's a fixable issue. Say, you compete as a boy until your gender reassignment therapy is complete, for example.

[Kurth]

How is this a fair competition?

Seriously! Some people will do anything to win.

This is not about everyone getting a participation trophy and no winners are declared. Organized sports have winners and losers. A guy with no female hormone therapy is going to have a competitive advantage over the girls. That's why most sports are split by gender.

From the linked article:

"I know they'll say it is unfair and not right, but my counter to that is: Why not?" her mother said. "She is competing and practicing and giving her all and performing and excelling based on her skills. Let that be enough. Let her do that, and be proud of that."

I can think of more than a few reasons why policies surrounding transgender athletes are not so simple. In track and field, there really aren't any safety concerns I can think of, but there are certainly issues surrounding fairness and maintaining the integrity of the sport. This is a tough one.

[Smoove_B]

That's why most sports are split by gender.

Is it? I thought it was because girls are icky. You know, like the gays. I honestly am not up on the history of high school sports so I don't really know why genders are split, but my gut is telling me that historically it wasn't about competitive advantage.

Regardless, just as I'm not in a position to tell someone which bathroom facility they should use, if they are "living life" as [gender], I'm not in a position to tell them they can't throw a ball or run a race unless they submit to hormone shots or genital reassignment. I mean, there are so many f-ed up things happening right now for me to care that someone's feelings are hurt because a transgender high school student is breaking track records.

[Kurth]

That's why most sports are split by gender.

Is it? I thought it was because girls are icky. You know, like the gays. I honestly am not up on the history of high school sports so I don't really know why genders are split, but my gut is telling me that historically it wasn't about competitive advantage.

Regardless, just as I'm not in a position to tell someone which bathroom facility they should use, if they are "living life" as [gender], I'm not in a position to tell them they can't throw a ball or run a race unless they submit to hormone shots or genital reassignment. I mean, there are so many f-ed up things happening right now for me to care that someone's feelings are hurt because a transgender high school student is breaking track records.

So much to unpack here.

(1) Any evidence to back up your gut feeling that athletics are split male/female because "girls are icky" and not because of issues of fairness and competitive advantage? That would be really interesting to see.
(2) No one is suggesting that trans athletes can't compete. Rather, it's a question of who they should be competing against. That's a question that's asked and determined in many, many other contexts across sports.
(3) The fact that you don't care about track records doesn't really do much to move the needle here.

[noxiousdog]

Is it? I thought it was because girls are icky. You know, like the gays. I honestly am not up on the history of high school sports so I don't really know why genders are split, but my gut is telling me that historically it wasn't about competitive advantage.

Historically, no, but that has been different for a long time. Women would be extraordinarily unlikely to make a JV team, so it's about providing extra opportunities.

[Smoove_B]

(1) Any evidence to back up your gut feeling that athletics are split male/female because "girls are icky" and not because of issues of fairness and competitive advantage? That would be really interesting to see.

No, not really. Again, I'm not a scholar on high school sports (or any sports for that matter). I can only point to Title IX.

(2) No one is suggesting that trans athletes can't compete. Rather, it's a question of who they should be competing against. That's a question that's asked and determined in many, many other contexts across sports.

No, I do think that's the subtext of what they're saying. Can't compete with men because ewww you are dressing like a girl. Can't compete with women because gross you have a penis. If you identify as [X], then you should be doing whatever that means. If it's a form a parent has to sign or a box you check on a state issued ID card to declare it, terrific.

(3) The fact that you don't care about track records doesn't really do much to move the needle here.

I wasn't thinking anyone was caring all that much about my opinions. I have a general disdain for organized sports and have been around insufferable parents now for 5+ years with our middle school child participating in various leagues. While I have not seen it, I can easily imagine some of the local parents I've interacted with becoming verbally upset over "fairness" as children kick a ball or hit one with a bat. I can only assume then as she grows older and high school sports become "serious business", the concerns will escalate.

[Moliere]

It's a fixable issue. Say, you compete as a boy until your gender reassignment therapy is complete, for example.

I could go along with that solution. I agree that it's not about preventing transgender from competing, but deciding on the most appropriate and fair place for them to compete. A guy announcing that he's now a girl shouldn't be allowed to play on the women's basketball team and shower in the women's locker room.

[Daehawk]

In some sports a male to female would still hold advantages such as larger denser muscle mass, larger denser bones, thicker tendons and ligaments. Theres not much to do about all that.

[Moliere]

In some sports a male to female would still hold advantages such as larger denser muscle mass, larger denser bones, thicker tendons and ligaments. Theres not much to do about all that.

Yes, after puberty the former males will still have a physiological advantage even with female hormone therapy.

[Zarathud]

It's a fixable issue. Say, you compete as a boy until your gender reassignment therapy is complete, for example.

Therapy is not always completed. A transgender friend continues to have hormone therapy but ran out of cash to do the genital surgery.

It's fixable by adopting a medical standard based on hormone levels, for example.

[El Guapo]

It's a fixable issue. Say, you compete as a boy until your gender reassignment therapy is complete, for example.

Therapy is not always completed. A transgender friend continues to have hormone therapy but ran out of cash to do the genital surgery.

It's fixable by adopting a medical standard based on hormone levels, for example.

Right. I don't know much about the details of gender transitioning, so I meant more like, it seems plausible for reasonable people to find some sort of defensible solution to this problem.

[em2nought]

Bathrooms - Dont build multi stall ones. Build multiple single use bathrooms.

I blame ancient Greece for our bathroom problems. Shared showers at PSU, and too many people taking a crap in one place at Target. I wonder how much inappropriate behavior shared school showers have produced? Hell the bully factor alone should do away with them. These are ideas we should have dropped long ago. Seriously, it can't be that much more expensive. Added benefit no more children in the bathroom with anyone. I don't trust those little buggers not to fabricate some story anyway. The minute a child walks into the men's bathroom alone, I get myself out of there as quickly as possible. If a child walks into the men's rest room ahead of me, I wait till they come out before I go in. It's such dumb crap (hehe) to be wasting (hehe) time over.

I did again today reap the benefits of Target's CEO being overly political. Nice WW2ish clone jacket on clearance for $11.86, turkey breast for $0.99 per lb, and an outdoor wall clock on sale that I've been wanting for several years now. Never did find one on clearance in all that time so I figured the sale was the best I could do. I figure I owe Target, their actions probably played a small part in who's in charge now. haha

[YellowKing]

I don't see how multiple single bathrooms isn't prohibitively more expensive than multi-stalls, even if you had the significantly extra room it would require. All to solve a problem that doesn't exist outside the minds of religious whack jobs who are seemingly obsessed with what other people do with their private parts.