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Where is the Libertarian Party?

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Moliere » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:43 pm

Kurth wrote:I thought the dynamic between Johnson and Weld was a little off, with Johnson often deferring to Weld and Weld often taking lead and overshadowing Johnson.
This seemed true only with questions about the Justice Department, since Weld worked there under Reagan. It's the opposite of Trump who never let's anyone else talk. It was both understandable and disappointing when Johnson is ducking questions about victimless crimes like prostitution. Just say it should be legalized and regulated. Move on. No reason to make vague references to Nevada and the women being the real victims.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by LordMortis » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:25 pm

Moliere wrote: It was both understandable and disappointing when Johnson is ducking questions about victimless crimes like prostitution. Just say it should be legalized and regulated. Move on. No reason to make vague references to Nevada and the women being the real victims.

I don't think it is understandable. This is where Johnson and I part ways and I can't support him. His platform suggests that everything is going to work itself out and it will all be awesome. In this case I concur that prostitution should be legalized and regulated but that's not good enough. There needs to be a plan for regulation. In other areas, usually tax cut and ignore areas, I can't abide how our all already collapsing infrastructure will survive his plans and what the alternative is if you don't give a damned about infrastructure.

Johnson is like 85% of the way there for me but the 15% is sooooo damned important it can't be overlooked because it's really the core 15% for me and that's dealing with debt and publicly funded public needs.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:33 pm

Libertarian economic policies lead to domed cities and megacorps.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Holman » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:44 pm

Libertarianism is a thought experiment. As a politics of its own, it's the worst possible response to economic insecurity, environmental collapse, infrastructural breakdown, and any social ills you care to name.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Moliere » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:37 pm

Jesse Ventura advocating for letting Gary Johnson into the debates as a way to eventually get rid of the Electoral College.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Moliere » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:15 pm

"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Holman » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:27 pm

Wait. Calling themselves "#TheAdults" is really their branding?

Did they not attend their own convention?
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Moliere » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:54 pm

Larry the Cable Guy pays the 'Fox & Friends' a visit!

"I'm a Trump man and when I say Trump Man, I mean Gary Johnson."
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Moliere » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:04 pm

Cornell College Republicans Decertified After Endorsing Gary Johnson
Last Friday the Cornell University Republicans endorsed Libertarian Gary Johnson for president, calling him "the true conservative in this election" and saying "this election's unprecedented nature has made blind commitment to our Party unpalatable." But blind commitment is what political parties are all about, so the very next day the New York Federation of College Republicans decertified the Cornell chapter, insisting that you cannot be a true Repubican if you aren't willing to swallow the steaming pile of shit that is Donald Trump.

"Clubs are within their right not to endorse certain candidates within the party and decide to reallocate their resources down the ballot," the state federation explained on Facebook. "What is unacceptable, however, is using a party-affiliated organization as a tool to support another party's candidate in an election, whomever that candidate may be and whatever office the election may be for."
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by El Guapo » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:06 pm

That seems like a totally legit and reasonable decision by the state federation. Like, I get that Trump is obviously a big pile of excrement, but I can see how the state federation for a party would frown on using federation resources to support a different party.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by pr0ner » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:22 pm

Well then.
Hodor.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:44 am

Aleppo?
Asked on Wednesday's "Morning Joe" what he would do if elected president about the city in Syria at the center of the refugee crisis, Johnson earnestly asked: "What is Aleppo?"

"You're kidding me," responded Mike Barnicle, who had asked the question, and then began to explain what Aleppo is to the candidate.

"OK, got it, got it," Johnson said, cutting him off. He added: "With regard to Syria I do think it's a mess. mess. I think that the only way that we deal with Syria is to join hands with Russia to diplomatically bring that at an end."

"It's just a mess," he said.
Maybe Trump will give him SecState after the election.
UPDATE: Following the "Morning Joe" interview, Johnson told Mark Halperin on camera that he's "incredibly frustrated with himself."

"No one is taking this more seriously than me, I feel horrible," the governor said. "I have to get smarter, and that's just part of the process."
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by El Guapo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:50 am

Yes, "I have to get smarter" is definitely what I want to hear out of the next president.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:52 am

I have no problem with the candidates getting smarter. I just think that two months prior to the election is well past the best window of opportunity.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:23 am

Isgrimnur wrote:I have no problem with the candidates getting smarter. I just think that two months prior to the election is well past the best window of opportunity.
And yet his solution is almost certainly what has to happen. But everyone (including the current administration) knows that already. How to make it happen is the hard part. The people in office today are trying to do exactly that.

Russia isn't exactly friendly with the US right now. Maybe Drumpf can get them to cooperate by saying nice things about them first. That's his super secret negotiating technique. That and walking away from the table.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Moliere » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:30 am

What Abe Lincoln Prophesied About Trump and Hillary

Balanced Rebellion
Get paired up with another voter from the opposite party so neither of you are helping the opposing candidate. It keeps you from having to vote for someone you don't like to prevent helping someone you hate.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by The Meal » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:00 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Aleppo?
Asked on Wednesday's "Morning Joe" what he would do if elected president about the city in Syria at the center of the refugee crisis, Johnson earnestly asked: "What is Aleppo?"

"You're kidding me," responded Mike Barnicle, who had asked the question, and then began to explain what Aleppo is to the candidate.
Ouch.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Blackhawk » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:57 pm

I dunno. Everyone has a brain fart from time to time. I've seen lots of people (including myself) not recognize some obvious reference when it is brought up without context after a change of subject.

I don't know if that's what happened here (most of the videos just have that one question, not the bits leading up to that), but it happens. I'm not really a Johnson supporter, but I do get tired of every human mistake a politician makes - a mixed up word, a missed reference, a forgotten date six months back, a misspelled tuber - becomes evidence of their overall competence.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Captain Caveman » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:03 pm

Trump's answer would have been his typical, "Well, many people are saying it's a big, big problem and we're going to fix it" pablum and most people wouldn't care. He gives this same vacuous answer whenever he has no earthly idea what's being asked of him.

Of course it's kind of appalling that Gary Johnson hasn't heard of Aleppo-- I also seem to recall a few months back him not know who Harriet Tubman was-- but on some level, it is refreshing that he admits his ignorance and doesn't just try to bullshit his answer like Trump.
Last edited by Captain Caveman on Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:03 pm

Blackhawk wrote:a misspelled tuber
:shock:

Regardless, with the explanation it didn't come across as a momentary loss of recall, it comes across as a complete lack of knowledge. Those are potatoes of a different color.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:13 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:a misspelled tuber
:shock:

Regardless, with the explanation it didn't come across as a momentary loss of recall, it comes across as a complete lack of knowledge. Those are potatoes of a different color.
Alas, even in the brief follow-up interview he did with Mark Halperin, he managed to sound like he was trying to present a book report on something he'd never read.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Moliere » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:27 pm

New York Times Tries To Factcheck Gary Johnson On Aleppo, Repeatedly Steps On A Rake Instead
Alan Rappeport of the New York Times quickly published the definitive piece for the paper of record excoriating Johnson for his ignorance. Unfortunately for Rappeport, his piece was also riddled with errors. Unlike Johnson, who was asked a question on the spot, the New York Times reporter had the Internet, paid editors, and all the time in the world to help him avoid making a bunch of embarrassing errors.

In spite of all that, NYT was still forced to publish not one, but two corrections of Rappeport’s reporting:
Image
:lol:
Facts are hard.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:59 pm

For the record I have never heard the name spoken. If someone asked me about it I might have to ask them what they are talking about because I might not recognize the pronunciation.

In any case, I'm willing to give him a pass. Seems like an unfortunate blanking that he recovered from quickly. Not with anything useful, but at least it wasn't another "huh?".

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by hepcat » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:01 pm

Good Lord, a candidate who has no clue meets a newspaper run by old folks who refuse to use google apparently. :doh:
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:12 pm

GreenGoo wrote:For the record I have never heard the name spoken. If someone asked me about it I might have to ask them what they are talking about because I might not recognize the pronunciation.

In any case, I'm willing to give him a pass. Seems like an unfortunate blanking that he recovered from quickly. Not with anything useful, but at least it wasn't another "huh?".
Despite all the pearl-clutching punditry, I doubt it'll do him much harm; as negative as it's been, he may even see a slight bump in the polls, as it's easily the most publicity his campaign has thus far received.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Alefroth » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:22 pm

Since foreign policy is a minor part of the Libertarian platform, I don't see it as much of a gaffe.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:27 pm

Alefroth wrote:Since foreign policy is a minor part of the Libertarian platform, I don't see it as much of a gaffe.
Unless he's trying to gain traction with people who aren't already diehard libertarians, maybe.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Holman » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:36 pm

GreenGoo wrote:For the record I have never heard the name spoken. If someone asked me about it I might have to ask them what they are talking about because I might not recognize the pronunciation.

In any case, I'm willing to give him a pass. Seems like an unfortunate blanking that he recovered from quickly. Not with anything useful, but at least it wasn't another "huh?".
Really? I hear the name on NPR all the time, and the pronunciation is simple. It's "Aleppo," not "Uzbekibekibekistanstan."

More to the point, I would expect a candidate for the presidency to be involved in discussions about it. Aleppo is the Sarajevo of its civil war.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Sepiche » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:51 pm

Holman wrote:Really? I hear the name on NPR all the time, and the pronunciation is simple. It's "Aleppo," not "Uzbekibekibekistanstan."

More to the point, I would expect a candidate for the presidency to be involved in discussions about it. Aleppo is the Sarajevo of its civil war.
This. The average American may not know about Aleppo, but before the war it was the largest city in Syria, and it has been making headlines for years as a major focal point of the civil war. Not to even mention the humanitarian crisis that continues to unfold there. It should be well known to anyone following the news out of Syria to any degree and anyone running for president should know a lot more than just the name.

For all the goofiness of the Libertarian party I always thought Gary Johnson was at least a credible candidate for president, but I'm not so sure after that performance, although credit to him for owning up to the mistake.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by hepcat » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:59 pm

Heck, I heard it on the way into work this morning. I guess some politician didn't know what it was or something. It was all over the news.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Moliere » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:02 pm

Interesting how much heat he's getting for admitting that he doesn't know something and asking questions before giving a response. Has Clinton or Trump ever done that?
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:02 pm

Holman wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:For the record I have never heard the name spoken. If someone asked me about it I might have to ask them what they are talking about because I might not recognize the pronunciation.

In any case, I'm willing to give him a pass. Seems like an unfortunate blanking that he recovered from quickly. Not with anything useful, but at least it wasn't another "huh?".
Really? I hear the name on NPR all the time, and the pronunciation is simple. It's "Aleppo," not "Uzbekibekibekistanstan."

More to the point, I would expect a candidate for the presidency to be involved in discussions about it. Aleppo is the Sarajevo of its civil war.
In all fairness, if you watch the original interview and question in context, the preceding question was all about the "Nader effect", so the "What about Aleppo?" question did come completely out of left field, with no transition whatsoever. Of course, that said, it was still an obvious gaffe, which he's since owned, acknowledged, and apologised for (which, let's face it, neither of the other leading candidates would ever have done). So, if nothing else, he deserves a little credit for handling it like a rational adult, instead of attacking the interviewer à la Trump, or trying to sweep it under the rug with additional mendacity à la Clinton.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Holman » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:17 pm

Moliere wrote:Interesting how much heat he's getting for admitting that he doesn't know something and asking questions before giving a response. Has Clinton or Trump ever done that?
And do they not catch relentless heat any time any such thing happens?

Why should Johnson get a pass if he's supposedly among the real candidates?
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:58 pm

Sepiche wrote:
Holman wrote:Really? I hear the name on NPR all the time, and the pronunciation is simple. It's "Aleppo," not "Uzbekibekibekistanstan."

More to the point, I would expect a candidate for the presidency to be involved in discussions about it. Aleppo is the Sarajevo of its civil war.
This. The average American may not know about Aleppo, but before the war it was the largest city in Syria, and it has been making headlines for years as a major focal point of the civil war. Not to even mention the humanitarian crisis that continues to unfold there. It should be well known to anyone following the news out of Syria to any degree and anyone running for president should know a lot more than just the name.

For all the goofiness of the Libertarian party I always thought Gary Johnson was at least a credible candidate for president, but I'm not so sure after that performance, although credit to him for owning up to the mistake.
I didn't say I didn't know what it was, I said I have no idea how it's pronounced, since I've never heard it spoken.
I don't watch tv news, I don't watch tv news format shifted to video on the internet. I don't discuss the middle east with anyone verbally.

I may not know what sodium chloride is, but if you ask me a question about salt we're good to go, for example.

He does get credit for owning the mistake (because normal humans aren't crucified for claiming ignorance for all of 3 seconds) and he also gets credit for answering intelligently once he was clear on the topic. He absolutely should know what Aleppo is, and yes he made a mistake, but hardly a catastrophic one imo. He clearly knows what Aleppo is even though he said he didn't.

Is he a bad guy for not recognizing what he's being asked about, or is he a bad guy because he doesn't know what Aleppo is? Because he's only guilty of the first.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Moliere » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:16 pm

Image
Google trend rankings this morning.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by ImLawBoy » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:21 pm

Gary Johnson's press release:
This morning, I began my day by setting aside any doubt that I'm human. Yes, I understand the dynamics of the Syrian conflict -- I talk about them every day. But hit with 'What about Aleppo?', I immediately was thinking about an acronym, not the Syrian conflict. I blanked. It happens, and it will happen again during the course of this campaign.

Can I name every city in Syria? No. Should I have identified Aleppo? Yes. Do I understand its significance? Yes.

As Governor, there were many things I didn't know off the top of my head. But I succeeded by surrounding myself with the right people, getting to the bottom of important issues, and making principled decisions. It worked. That is what a President must do.

That would begin, clearly, with daily security briefings that, to me, will be fundamental to the job of being President.
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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Defiant » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:37 pm

It doesn't inspire confidence, and suggests that he's not heavily looking at foreign issues when he should be (which would be troubling if he had a chance of winning), but I don't think it's a huge blunder. I'd consider something along the line's of Ford's "no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe" or Trump's answer about the nuclear triad to be far (or some of Sander's more tenuous pivots to income inequality at the beginning of the Primary season) worse blunders, since that's about understanding the issue rather than recognizing a name.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by Sepiche » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:48 pm

GreenGoo wrote:I didn't say I didn't know what it was, I said I have no idea how it's pronounced, since I've never heard it spoken.
I don't watch tv news, I don't watch tv news format shifted to video on the internet. I don't discuss the middle east with anyone verbally.
To be clear I wasn't taking a shot at you... that's why I removed your quote from my response. I was more pointing out that a candidate for president shouldn't need prompting when asked about the significance of Aleppo.
GreenGoo wrote: Is he a bad guy for not recognizing what he's being asked about, or is he a bad guy because he doesn't know what Aleppo is? Because he's only guilty of the first.
Maybe, but here was his response in a follow up interview:
Gary Johnson wrote: When you recognize what’s going on in Syria, when you recognize that Aleppo is in kinda the epicenter between ... Aleppo! Umm, knowing that there’s a city between the two forces, really at the epicenter, but not remembering or recognizing that that’s Aleppo ... guilty.
I'm not sure that response really reassures me he actually knows Aleppo's significance in the conflict.

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:22 pm

Ok, I fudged on him giving a good response. :wink:

You suck Johnson! Get a job!

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Re: Where is the Libertarian Party?

Post by em2nought » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:08 pm

Moliere wrote: Balanced Rebellion
Get paired up with another voter from the opposite party so neither of you are helping the opposing candidate. It keeps you from having to vote for someone you don't like to prevent helping someone you hate.
They don't seem to like that one, although I think it can only help Hillary. They should be all over it. Guess they'd have to admit that there's something wrong with their candidate. :wink: All those Sanders voters will trade not bothering to vote into a vote for Johnson, and actual Trump voters will vote for Johnson.
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