College students and their safe space

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by ImLawBoy »

geezer wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
geezer wrote:but a generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s are convinced that they already have all the answers, to the point that they literally shut down opposing ideas
Doesn't that describe every generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s (at least from the perspectives of the older generations)?
Maybe? Sure, the 60's boomer protests are seen as a symbol of the era, and I guess their "sit-ins" and peaceful occupations could be seen as a physical rejection of the dominant culture's ethos, and today we have the various incidents that were the original subject of this thread, but I honestly don't recall my generation growing such fits. In fact, as I recall, we though the idea of "free speech zones" and such to be pretty repulsive. Maybe we really are the "whatever" generation and it's the impassioned kids before and after us that have it right, but generation of people that think certain ideas "hurt too much" to hear, and thus ought to be censored? That doesn't really work for me.
It doesn't work for me, either (and nicely done to bring the thread more-or-less back to its original topic). That said, I'm not sure how widespread that belief is among the current generation - I may have missed the stats if anyone posted them. I'm not saying that we have to respect and admire everything about the current generation of youth, just that all of this doomsaying about the younger generations has been going on forever (see the Aristotle quote given above), and will continue going on forever, regardless of whether its accurate. I also know that college students had some really dumb ideas back when I was going to school. Charging that a generation is lost because some of them want these ridiculous safe spaces and trigger warnings, or that they live with their parents for longer than we did, particularly given some of the reasons that they have for doing this, seems foolish to me.

In summary, we should rightly deride the youth for safe spaces, but we should ease up on the living at home thing.

I think that resolves things. Should I lock up the thread?
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by geezer »

RunningMn9 wrote:
As a follow up to geezer - I guess I would amend my comment about buying the "lie" to read that the fruits of your labor/opportunity/luck are carrot that they should be chasing. If it works for you - great. If it works for them - great. But if they want something different out of life than busting their hump for 45 years so they can afford trinkets and travel, that's their call. They get one opportunity to live the life they want. If they don't buy the line that it's all worth it because your modern serfdom is better than medieval serfdom so it's all worth it, that's for them to decide.
Hey, I agree 100% They can do whatever they want. Just don't complain when "following your passion" to develop cat memes doesn't buy you a condo on the bay in San Francisco. It's not that I think that my choice is better than theirs, it's that they seem hell-bent on arguing that they have a right *not to have to make a choice*
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by msteelers »

geezer wrote:But when someone like me is willing to adapt and realize the reality of a different mindset, but a generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s are convinced that they already have all the answers, to the point that they literally shut down opposing ideas, there's a problem, and it's not with me (Which returns us to the original topic quite nicely).
But that's a human issue, not a generational one. I see people shut down other people's ideas all the time, that's not unique to millennials.

Of course, I'm guilty as hell of doing it. If I think I'm right and I "know" the person is wrong, I act like a damn pitbull. I just attack the issue until they submit. This has of course gotten me into trouble, and it's a personal quirk that I'm working on correcting.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by geezer »

ImLawBoy wrote:
geezer wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
geezer wrote:but a generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s are convinced that they already have all the answers, to the point that they literally shut down opposing ideas
Doesn't that describe every generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s (at least from the perspectives of the older generations)?
Maybe? Sure, the 60's boomer protests are seen as a symbol of the era, and I guess their "sit-ins" and peaceful occupations could be seen as a physical rejection of the dominant culture's ethos, and today we have the various incidents that were the original subject of this thread, but I honestly don't recall my generation growing such fits. In fact, as I recall, we though the idea of "free speech zones" and such to be pretty repulsive. Maybe we really are the "whatever" generation and it's the impassioned kids before and after us that have it right, but generation of people that think certain ideas "hurt too much" to hear, and thus ought to be censored? That doesn't really work for me.
It doesn't work for me, either (and nicely done to bring the thread more-or-less back to its original topic). That said, I'm not sure how widespread that belief is among the current generation - I may have missed the stats if anyone posted them. I'm not saying that we have to respect and admire everything about the current generation of youth, just that all of this doomsaying about the younger generations has been going on forever (see the Aristotle quote given above), and will continue going on forever, regardless of whether its accurate. I also know that college students had some really dumb ideas back when I was going to school. Charging that a generation is lost because some of them want these ridiculous safe spaces and trigger warnings, or that they live with their parents for longer than we did, particularly given some of the reasons that they have for doing this, seems foolish to me.

In summary, we should rightly deride the youth for safe spaces, but we should ease up on the living at home thing.

I think that resolves things. Should I lock up the thread?
Do we lock threads here? Can we continue if we post a trigger warning? ;)

Edit - I re-read what you wrote and something else occurs to me... Perhaps the blame doesn't lie solely with the youth that want "safe spaces" and trigger warnings, but rather what if it's instead simply the ongoing issues of a generation of *parents* that continue, to this day, when their children are adults, their nutty helicopter parenting to the extent that they willingly indulge their kids' misplaced desire never to have a contrary idea cross their path. In other words, it's not that the kids should ask for safety and comfort, but rather the parents should grow up and tell them "no."
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

geezer wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
msteelers wrote:So is this the thread where I bitch and moan about how old people I've worked with have been terrible employees, or is that a separate thread?
This is a really good point. All things equal, I'd rather manage a team of young millennials than a team of 50+ year olds. In my experience (which should be taken as gospel and fact, of course), the younger generation is going to be much more flexible and adaptable than the older. The older generation will bitch and moan about every change and complain about how things used to be better back in the day. My worst experiences as a manager were trying to get the older employees to accept simple changes.
FWIW, I would generally concur.
I think that's self evident statement. But that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. Or is only tangentially related, at best.

"who would I rather manage?" doesn't have much to do with "why are more and more people deciding to delay moving out of their parents' homes?".
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by ImLawBoy »

GreenGoo wrote:
geezer wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
msteelers wrote:So is this the thread where I bitch and moan about how old people I've worked with have been terrible employees, or is that a separate thread?
This is a really good point. All things equal, I'd rather manage a team of young millennials than a team of 50+ year olds. In my experience (which should be taken as gospel and fact, of course), the younger generation is going to be much more flexible and adaptable than the older. The older generation will bitch and moan about every change and complain about how things used to be better back in the day. My worst experiences as a manager were trying to get the older employees to accept simple changes.
FWIW, I would generally concur.
I think that's self evident statement. But that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. Or is only tangentially related, at best.

"who would I rather manage?" doesn't have much to do with "why are more and more people deciding to delay moving out of their parents' homes?".
You're worried about a tangentially related comment in a thread that started out about "safe spaces"?

The tangential relationship is solid because the discussion (at the time) was about more than the very specific topic of younger generations staying at home. It was also about the broader topic of older generations complaining about younger generations.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by RunningMn9 »

geezer wrote:It's not that I think that my choice is better than theirs
I would bet an awful lot of money that you you think that your choice is better than theirs. ;)

But, in the spirit of unity, I would agree that choosing to prioritize your life around things other than hard work - while simultaneously lamenting that this prioritization doesn't yield the same things that a life of hard work might bring - well, that's silly.

I would only note that they probably understand that hard work is not sufficient. Many people work a lot harder than I do, and don't get the rewards that I get. I am the product of hard (enough) work, (more than one) opportunity, and (a good deal of) luck.

And even that is only amenable to me because I can get behind toiling away in order to make the battlefield safer for our soldiers. If I was still working in the telecom industry? I would spend each day plotting my own death.
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Re: College students and their safe space

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RunningMn9 wrote:I would only note that they probably understand that hard work is not sufficient. Many people work a lot harder than I do, and don't get the rewards that I get. I am the product of hard (enough) work, (more than one) opportunity, and (a good deal of) luck.

And even that is only amenable to me because I can get behind toiling away in order to make the battlefield safer for our soldiers. If I was still working in the telecom industry? I would spend each day plotting my own death.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

No one is complaining about their life choices not to do what society expects them to do. The complaints are based around the perception that they've chosen to do nothing at all.

They need to be able to subsist without relying on other people for it. Once they've got that covered, I couldn't care less what they do with their lives (although admittedly I do have our cultural respect for those who work hard and persevere. I just don't particularly care what the subject of their hard work and perseverance is).

Don't confuse our disrespect for those who choose to do nothing somehow with the idea that we expect them to become good little cogs in the machine. They aren't the same thing.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by stessier »

I think a large portion of this whole thing is media generated. We're trying to paint a broad cross section of people with an even broader brush. In the long run it really doesn't matter as long as we treat the individuals as individuals when we come across them - but seeing as that almost never happens, I find it best to ignore it all together to avoid forming biases.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by RunningMn9 »

GreenGoo wrote:No one is complaining about their life choices not to do what society expects them to do. The complaints are based around the perception that they've chosen to do nothing at all.
I would suggest that my perception is that the perception that they've chosen to do nothing at all (as a generation) is created by your feelings about them not doing what you expect them to do.

In other words, I don't agree that as a generation, they are choosing to do nothing.
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Get down on their knees and pray
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Kraken »

RunningMn9 wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:
geezer wrote:but a generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s are convinced that they already have all the answers, to the point that they literally shut down opposing ideas
Doesn't that describe every generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s (at least from the perspectives of the older generations)?
Yes.
Hey, our Greatest Generation parents where aghast when we Boomers invented "tune in, turn on, drop out." The thing is, we grew up. Launched careers, founded households, started families, opened 401k's, straightened up and flew right.

Are millennials outgrowing their prolonged adolescence? IDK. I do know that they marry later, if at all. I suspect that their reproductive rate lags along with formal pair-bonding. Conventional wisdom says they also lag in forming households; data beyond the 2010 census is disputed, but those who live with their parents are by definition not forming households.

Maybe they're late bloomers.

I don't personally know enough millennials for anecdotes to mean anything. In my very limited data set, half of them are adulting and half boomeranged. Two of the boomerangs have real plans to get out and get ahead. Three others are abject failures who are content to play Nintendo in their parents' basements forever (one even brought home a wife and baby to share the lifestyle). Interestingly, the lower-income kids were compelled to make it on their own while the richer ones had the luxury of failing.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by coopasonic »

Kraken wrote:I don't personally know enough millennials for anecdotes to mean anything. In my very limited data set, half of them are adulting and half boomeranged.
Every millennial I know is a talented, career-oriented achiever... of course the only ones I know (about a half dozen) are the ones I work with and the bar to working here in a role that would interact with me is reasonably high.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

ImLawBoy wrote: You're worried about a tangentially related comment in a thread that started out about "safe spaces"?
Not normally no, only in that it was being used to show how younger workers are better than older workers because they are more pliable while discussing the lack of initiative of the younger generation.

Might as well say that I prefer older workers for bosses because they tend to have the experience and demeanour to handle crisis better.

We could be here all day discussing what we like about older and younger workers. I'm not sure how any of that applies to the context of the discussion.

It's not so much that I was critical of your statement, for which I'm pretty much in agreement.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

RunningMn9 wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:No one is complaining about their life choices not to do what society expects them to do. The complaints are based around the perception that they've chosen to do nothing at all.
I would suggest that my perception is that the perception that they've chosen to do nothing at all (as a generation) is created by your feelings about them not doing what you expect them to do.

In other words, I don't agree that as a generation, they are choosing to do nothing.
Shrug. As a generation, what would you agree that they are choosing to do?
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Re: College students and their safe space

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Kraken wrote:Are millennials outgrowing their prolonged adolescence? IDK. I do know that they marry later, if at all. I suspect that their reproductive rate lags along with formal pair-bonding. Conventional wisdom says they also lag in forming households; data beyond the 2010 census is disputed, but those who live with their parents are by definition not forming households.

Maybe they're late bloomers.
Interesting that you point this out. There was an article in Time about marriage, and all the data (and they had a fair amount of it) shows that first marriage later in life (after 26, IIRC) and in a more stable economic environment (for example, after saving some money for a few years by living at home after graduation) leads to longer, more stable, and more satisfying marriages.
GreenGoo wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote: You're worried about a tangentially related comment in a thread that started out about "safe spaces"?
Not normally no, only in that it was being used to show how younger workers are better than older workers because they are more pliable while discussing the lack of initiative of the younger generation.

Might as well say that I prefer older workers for bosses because they tend to have the experience and demeanour to handle crisis better.

We could be here all day discussing what we like about older and younger workers. I'm not sure how any of that applies to the context of the discussion.
It's not about whether we prefer older or younger workers. It's about the older generation complaining about the younger generation and their lack of initiative and all that rot (that every older generation complains about), while seeming to ignore the problems of older generations relative to younger. It's not directly on point (hence why I agree it's a tangent), but it's still relevant and worth noting in a thread that has a lot of "Get off my lawn!" shouting.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by RunningMn9 »

GreenGoo wrote:As a generation, what would you agree that they are choosing to do?
I don't think that as a generation they are acting towards some broad, shared purpose. I think they came of age in a time when circumstances dictated a different set of options than were available to me at the start of the dot com boom. So they have chosen from a different set of possible paths. I think that there is sufficient change between each successive generation that it fosters the same criticisms over an over. Like, the generations that had to do real, actual labor would probably shit all over whatever imagined "work ethic" the modern office drone thinks he has.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
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Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

RunningMn9 wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:As a generation, what would you agree that they are choosing to do?
I don't think that as a generation they are acting towards some broad, shared purpose. I think they came of age in a time when circumstances dictated a different set of options than were available to me at the start of the dot com boom. So they have chosen from a different set of possible paths. I think that there is sufficient change between each successive generation that it fosters the same criticisms over an over. Like, the generations that had to do real, actual labor would probably shit all over whatever imagined "work ethic" the modern office drone thinks he has.
Fair enough, except that generationally patterns emerge. What you've written in this thread is just what you've expressed as your own personal opinion since becoming disenfranchised with corporate america (a view I mostly share). While you suggest different paths and derision for those who you assume demand the younger generation get on the treadmill, you really haven't given us anything concrete.

What choices do you see being made by the generation being discussed? Assuming we don't have a full set of data on every individual out there, but having read articles on topics such as student debt, economy, early employment out of college, whatever.

If we agree that they have a different set of possible paths, what choices do you think they are making? I'm not going to pester you for details on the different set.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Rip »

To some degree I would think that later generations aren't in as much a hurry to get on with life because they have longer to look forward to. With life expectancy being so much longer and people being healthy and active much later in life.

:think:
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Re: College students and their safe space

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I wrote out a personal anecdote but it came across too self serving so I deleted it.

Sorry about that.
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College students and their safe space

Post by Chrisoc13 »

I don't know if I fit in as a millennial (I'm 31) but I have to laugh reading this thread. Half of it is essentially grumpier old men. People are people. We simply haven't changed that much. Among my friends from high school there is not one I can think of that has had prolonged adolescence. Among my class and best friends there are entrepreneurs, doctors, accountants, a navy seal, and more. Sure it's a sample size of only my experiences but this thread is hilarious from my point of view.

Now in our twenties did some of us wander aimlessly for a time? Of course. I didn't graduate from college until eight years after high school for a variety of reasons, some of it being aimless wandering. I even moved back in with my parents for a year when I was wandering. I don't think it was a poor choice. It gave me time to figure out what I wanted with my life. Guess that makes me lazy.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Zarathud »

RunningMn9 wrote:Like, the generations that had to do real, actual labor would probably shit all over whatever imagined "work ethic" the modern office drone thinks he has.
My mom has always been content to work with her hands -- sewing, woodworking, manufacturing, etc. -- and thinks sitting in an office all day must be mind-numbingly dreadful with all the meetings where nothing happens but stress. She intellectually knows I work hard lawyering, but it's all unproductive bullshit to her.

I almost went insane working manufacturing and shipping jobs while in college, so I have the opposite view. But she can point to her tangible daily output, while I really can't. So she "wins" even though my value added is higher.
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Re: College students and their safe space

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Chrisoc13 wrote:Now in our twenties did some of us wander aimlessly for a time? Of course. I didn't graduate from college until eight years after high school for a variety of reasons, some of it being aimless wandering. I even moved back in with my parents for a year when I was wandering. I don't think it was a poor choice. It gave me time to figure out what I wanted with my life. Guess that makes me lazy.
What exactly did you do for food and lodging when you weren't living with your parents? This has always been a mystery to me. If you have no money and no job, how do you stay alive?

I am asking the person here who had "aimlessly wandered", not your poor-ass specifically.
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College students and their safe space

Post by Chrisoc13 »

killbot737 wrote:
Chrisoc13 wrote:Now in our twenties did some of us wander aimlessly for a time? Of course. I didn't graduate from college until eight years after high school for a variety of reasons, some of it being aimless wandering. I even moved back in with my parents for a year when I was wandering. I don't think it was a poor choice. It gave me time to figure out what I wanted with my life. Guess that makes me lazy.
What exactly did you do for food and lodging when you weren't living with your parents? This has always been a mystery to me. If you have no money and no job, how do you stay alive?

I am asking the person here who had "aimlessly wandered", not your poor-ass specifically.


I've never not had a job or money. Home was just cheaper for a year and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life. Oh and I went to Europe for a long while too (cliche I know). But I was better at school when I decided it was what I actually wanted to do and went back. Which is good because if I hadn't taken time to wander I might not have had the focus to get the grades to get into my career.

When I wasn't living with my parents I was in apartments with roommates a couple states away. But if I had gone to college close to home I probably would have stayed with them to save money.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by coopasonic »

Zarathud wrote:So she "wins" even though my value added is higher.
Allegedly higher.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by RunningMn9 »

GreenGoo wrote:What choices do you see being made by the generation being discussed?
I did mention that, I think that it's been a big component of the return of multi-generational family living here in the US. I think that coming out of school into a contracting economy and job market forced many of these young adults back home or back to school (exacerbating the educational debt problem they were already facing). For the most part though, they seem to be exactly the same as my generation (GenX) coming out of college (aside from the living arrangements dictated by very different circumstances). A few anecdotal observations that I've seen:

1) Those that chose to stay living at home seem to have a significantly stronger financial base going forward than anyone that I knew coming out of college (most of which moved out on their own and proceeded to struggle to varying degrees for many years).

2) Those that chose to head out on their own have avoided renting altogether, choosing instead to buy homes, even if they are single. This group has accelerated well past the traditional path that people took (renting, buying starter home, buying bigger/forever home). They just jumped right into buying $300K homes.

Either way though, as a generation, there is nothing particularly remarkable about them in my experience. They are typical young people. I suppose I would say that they are much more apt to use leave to do fun things (i.e. golf, travel, etc.). I am still generally in the mold of using leave when I am sick or when it's a family vacation thing. They are in the mold of "it's a beautiful day, F this, I'm playing golf."

I like their strategy better.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by RunningMn9 »

Zarathud wrote:So she "wins" even though my value added is higher.
Value based on what scale?
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

RunningMn9 wrote: I like their strategy better.
Assuming their strategy is working for them, they sure do seem to complain a lot about not getting what they want when they want it.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

RunningMn9 wrote:
Zarathud wrote:So she "wins" even though my value added is higher.
Value based on what scale?
Based on a capitalist scale. You know, the scale that your economy is based on.

I'm a HUGE proponent of being happy. Huge. The last thing I would suggest to someone is take a job that is soul crushing just because it pays well. But even I find your viewpoint to be a little pie in the sky.

People need to eat. People need to have a roof over their heads. I do not recommend relying on others for what you need to subsist, because other people go away. They change their minds, they get hit by buses, they go broke themselves...

If the millennial generation can find a way to subsist and still do what they want when they want to, more power to them. We are in agreement on that. But that's not what I'm hearing about them. I'm hearing they have huge student debt, no job prospects and a lack of interest in starting at the bottom.

If what you and Chrisoc and coop are correct, then we've got nothing to worry about. If news reports, economic and job data are correct, then the future doesn't look so good. For everyone.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Chrisoc13 »

For all the talk of being a lazy generation it sure seems a lot of fields are much more competitive than they've ever been. In my profession (I'm a urology resident) it is incredibly competitive, more than it ever has been by a long shot. Let me give examples. When my father's generation applied to medical school they studied flash cards for a few days and then took the mcat. My generation? You don't take a preparatory course and study for every day for months good luck getting into an allopathic med school in the U.S. I studied for six months daily on top of my course work. Then with that in mind the acceptance rates hover around sixty percent. But that's a lazy generation right? My father's generation applied to one school. One. Without stress. Me? I applied to 25 with a score in the 99th percentile. And only 14 interviewed me. I received only five acceptance offers. Older doctors heard about my score and assumed I would walk into any school I wanted. But the competition from my lazy generation is real.

Then once applying to residency it weeds out more. My father's generation when they wanted to do surgical sub specialties what did they do? Acceptance rates were high and many were simply called and asked if they wanted to do it. They applied to less than five programs. My generation? I applied to 75 out of the approximately 100 programs that exist which on average take 2 applicants each. With solid scores and grades I got a grand total of fifteen interviews, and that's considered a really good number. Well above average. But yeah there's no competition because this generation is lazy and can't apply themselves when needed.

That's just an example of my field. But most degrees are more competitive than ever. My wife has similar experiences. So did all my friends.

Lazy? Hardly. Wanting more for less? Hardly. Wanting something different than previous generations? I sure hope so. We grew up in a time of excess and graduated into a shrinking economy with historic education costs. That doesn't make us lazy. It largely makes us not value accumulating wealth for the sake of having it. Would huge sums of wealth be nice to have? Sure. But will it make me happy? We already know it won't.

The big difference between my parents generation and me? I work to live, I don't live to work. If I need to work my butt off to achieve something I will. But I won't do it just to have money, it just isn't worth that much to me.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by RunningMn9 »

GreenGoo wrote:Assuming their strategy is working for them, they sure do seem to complain a lot about not getting what they want when they want it.
As a practical matter, I haven't seen that. There are occasional complaints that I hear based on their impatience. They don't seem to have an awareness that you build as you go. My wife and I rented an apartment for a year when we got married, then rented a larger townhouse for a couple of years, than bought a larger townhouse that we lived in until both of my kids were born, then we bought the house that we would raise our kids in.

They are jumping from nothing to the sort of house that a family would raise their kids in.

I started out with a beater car, then a slightly less beater car, then a slightly less beater car, then I could finally afford my first brand new car, then I eventually could get a nicer car, than I spent a long time getting practical cars, and then finally I got a car that I actually wanted, at age 41.

They are jumping from their initial beater car, to the car they actually wanted.

The ones that do it have made it work, so I don't begrudge them their decisions, but I have observed that they are very impatient about acquiring these things, and I don't think they thought them through all the way. But I have pointed out on occasion that they have made things harder for themselves by skipping the intermediate steps and taking their time.

They seem largely happy though (except for their student loans).
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

RunningMn9 wrote: They seem largely happy though (except for their student loans).
If that's true then more power to them. I realize my opinion is based mostly on media accounts, which are often sensationalized for profit. Shrug. Even if I knew any millennials personally (I don't) I wouldn't know enough of them to know what they are experiencing generationally, so I have to rely on others to tell me what's going on with them.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by RunningMn9 »

GreenGoo wrote:Based on a capitalist scale.
I absolutely understand that this is the scale that Zarathud is using. That's not why I asked the question. ;)

I imagine his mom does not use that scale, so his "value added" is "0" as far as she is concerned. And that's the point. There are different scales. Not everyone uses the same one. Z and his moms clearly aren't using the same one (and that's ok for the both of them).

My point that lead to that was that as high as Zarathud might think of his work ethic, crusty members of the Greatest Generation that have been shaking hands with the devil in a coal mine for 50 years (thanks Bill Burr for the reference) would laugh at his concept of "work ethic". It's all relative. This "kids are lazy pieces of garbage" is something that every generation feels about every succeeding generation, because in a lot of ways, the things that were hard for their generation are less hard (progress!). And because they are further along in life, they are blissfully unaware of the new challenges that have cropped up that they never had to deal with.

Virtually all of my friends at my current work are millennials, so I see the different obstacles they face that I didn't. And they are pretty effective at highlighting when I sound like a grumpy old man.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Chrisoc13 »

GreenGoo wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote: They seem largely happy though (except for their student loans).
If that's true then more power to them. I realize my opinion is based mostly on media accounts, which are often sensationalized for profit. Shrug. Even if I knew any millennials personally (I don't) I wouldn't know enough of them to know what they are experiencing generationally, so I have to rely on others to tell me what's going on with them.
So we're going off sensationalized media reports from baby boomers and gen xers about how the next generation sucks? No actual real world experience with them? Got it.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by msteelers »

RunningMn9 wrote:They are jumping from nothing to the sort of house that a family would raise their kids in.
I'm certainly guilty of this, but I also didn't set out to get exactly what I wanted.

When I bought a car, I knew what I could afford. I was content to look at old used cars, but ended up with a damn near new car. Not because it was shiny, but because it was basically the same price as all the old beaters. They gave me a deal I couldn't refuse.

When we bought our house in December, I expected to only be able to afford a starter home. But one of the first homes we looked at was this big, awesome house, smack dab in the middle of our budget. We didn't get the house, but it made me much pickier when we looked at other homes. Why spend all of our budget on a gross house that needed a ton of work, when we knew eventually a home would pop up that would be much nicer for the same price?

We ended up buying a 3-bedroom home with a ton of space. It's so much nicer than what I expected us to be able to afford. And the price is crazy. My rent for a 1-bedroom apartment was $900. My mortgage is now $1,100.

So yeah, I skipped the traditional starter steps, but I feel like I made the right financial decision each time.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

Chrisoc13 wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote: They seem largely happy though (except for their student loans).
If that's true then more power to them. I realize my opinion is based mostly on media accounts, which are often sensationalized for profit. Shrug. Even if I knew any millennials personally (I don't) I wouldn't know enough of them to know what they are experiencing generationally, so I have to rely on others to tell me what's going on with them.
So we're going off sensationalized media reports from baby boomers and gen xers about how the next generation sucks? No actual real world experience with them? Got it.
Well, no, not entirely. We're going off economic and job data too. Unless you happen to personally know the circumstances of more than a few, let's say, thousand millennials, your knowledge is anecdotal at best. How is that worth more than news articles which may or may not be sensationalized?

Don't be a snot. No one is calling you personally a slacker.
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College students and their safe space

Post by Chrisoc13 »

GreenGoo wrote:
Chrisoc13 wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote: They seem largely happy though (except for their student loans).
If that's true then more power to them. I realize my opinion is based mostly on media accounts, which are often sensationalized for profit. Shrug. Even if I knew any millennials personally (I don't) I wouldn't know enough of them to know what they are experiencing generationally, so I have to rely on others to tell me what's going on with them.
So we're going off sensationalized media reports from baby boomers and gen xers about how the next generation sucks? No actual real world experience with them? Got it.
Well, no, not entirely. We're going off economic and job data too. Unless you happen to personally know the circumstances of more than a few, let's say, thousand millennials, your knowledge is anecdotal at best. How is that worth more than news articles which may or may not be sensationalized?

Don't be a snot. No one is calling you personally a slacker.
1. I was sharing my experience. You said you have no experience with millennials. I have a ton obviously. Maybe you would like to hear something beyond media reports? I'm a millennial and literally know very few people who are lazy. Guess not. Disagreeing with the media reports and pointing out that it's more grumpier old men talk is being a snot.
2. Not all my info was really anecdotal. It had twinges of it. Lots of fields are more competitive than ever. Somehow that doesn't jive with being lazy.
3. A bunch of people from older generations in here come in complaining about millennials and then one admittedly says they don't even know one... and yet you are surprised with an actual defensive response? Please. If that makes me a snot... I'll gladly be a snot.
4. I'm not concerned if you think I'm a byslacker. Because I'm not. I don't frankly care what you think of me personally. I know I'm an achiever and will continue to be successful so it doesn't matter to me. But I don't mind coming in and letting you know how ridiculous the sweeping generalizations are that are being made here.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by hitbyambulance »

GreenGoo wrote:Even if I knew any millennials personally (I don't)
i wondered why OO seems (at times) like the old people bickering-about-trivial-stuff card club. anecdotally, this gives me a bit more insight into why that is so.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

I wrote out a thing but it was overly complicated and verbose and wasn't worth posting, so here's this.

You're being a snot for taking someone's potential mea culpa and using it to beat them over the head with it. That's rude. You also framed my points of reference in ways that were potentially not applicable and you deliberately removed all but one of them so you could rant about it as if it's my sole source of information and straw manned me with it. You weren't being a snot because you had a different opinion. Please.

You want to express your contrary opinion because a bunch of old men want to complain about kids these days, fine. Half the old men here share your opinion. While it might be that older generations are gonna bitch, as Lawboy points out, it's also true that these old men (most of OO) go farther out of their way to be as informed on the topics being discussed as possible before having an opinion than pretty much anywhere else on the net. And when confronted with evidence to the contrary, admit that their opinion might not be based completely on the facts, because those facts may have been misrepresented.

I get that you feel personally criticized. But that's partly on you. No one singled you out or even claimed you were a shining example of everything that sucks about millennials. And it should go without saying that most people here understand that when talking generally it usually can't be applied specifically with any hope of accuracy. Which means that while groups can behave in general ways and there is value in identifying and discussing those ways, each individual should and must be assessed on his/her own merits. I mean, that's a given. That should be self evident.

Anyway, this is longer than I meant, even for a second pass.

You're doing well.. Keep up the good work. Don't be so fragile and I'll try not to be either.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo »

hitbyambulance wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:Even if I knew any millennials personally (I don't)
i wondered why OO seems (at times) like the old people bickering-about-trivial-stuff card club. anecdotally, this gives me a bit more insight into why that is so.
Taking a quick look at the definitions of the generations, chances are I knew many millennials in the past, given that the top end of that generation is only 6 years younger than I am, but the bottom end is 26 years younger than I am.

My generation is almost as likely to have parented a millennial as to have one as a peer. And I'm far from the oldest OO'er here. Although after 20 years on GG and OO, I'm certainly not the youngest either. :wink:
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