College students and their safe space

[Kraken]

I've heard tell that Thursday is the new Friday because millennials consider Fridays part of the weekend and won't work. IDK if that's true or just fits into the hate.

In my day, moving back in with your parents was the ultimate admission of failure. I would have lived under a bridge and eaten worms before I would have suffered that humiliation or taken any money from them. Adulthood began with independence, and there was something wrong with you if you weren't independent by age 18 (or early 20s for us college types).

I read that >30% of kids aged 18-34 live with their parents, making that the single most common living arrangement for the first time in 130 years. It's worst among boys (I hesitate to call them men) at nearly 50%. Living with a spouse came in a close second, living alone was third, and all other arrangements (such as roommates) made up the rest. In general, women of their generation are more independent and successful than men.

'Course, we didn't graduate $50,000 in debt into McJobs and insane rents, so mollycoddled childhoods aren't the whole explanation.

I mean, aren't you really doing a good job here of explaining why things might be so different, and it's not just because kids today are soft and overprotected?

Yeah, I know: Even-handed posts are contrary to the spirit of R&P. What can I say, I'm a "one hand, other hand" kind of guy. Part of their shortcomings come from poor parenting and part are circumstantial. That they have excuses doesn't necessarily excuse them.

I do think that we should encourage boys to play with knives, though.

[Max Peck]

I do think that we should encourage boys to play with knives, though.

That just teachs them to bring knives to a gunfight.

[tgb]

In my day, moving back in with your parents was the ultimate admission of failure. I would have lived under a bridge and eaten worms before I would have suffered that humiliation or taken any money from them. Adulthood began with independence, and there was something wrong with you if you weren't independent by age 18 (or early 20s for us college types).

Seriously. When I turned 18 I couldn't get away from my parents quickly enough. It helped that I had a job offer in Arizona (trying to break into radio at the time), but ended up going from there to San Fran - by Greyhound.

Through the years my mother would always tell me when an apartment would become available in her building and try to sell my on how great it would be for me to move back to Brooklyn and live in the same building. Somehow I managed to resist.

She once asked me why I chose to take the bus to California. I told her it was because buses don't cross the Pacific.

[RunningMn9]

I find it odd that someone would be proud of that sort of behavior.

I moved out two months after graduating college, when I got married. I derive no particular pride from this decision, it's just what happened. Financially, it was an incredibly stupid decision.

Edit to add: I also don't regret the decision, it just seems odd to me to be so proud of your decisions like that.

[Smoove_B]

My parents offered me free room and board as long as I wanted it after college graduation. I lasted 3 weeks and then moved into a questionable garden apartment and subsisted on peanut butter, rice and cheese sandwiches for a year. It made zero financial sense, but I didn't end up institutionalized either. I'm proud of that in the sense that I moved out and at that point it was 100% in my hands. All the bills, successes and failures - all mine.

[hitbyambulance]

i probably would have stayed home for *years if the parents would have let me (they wanted me OUT). i was terrified of living on my own. it's been years since and looking back, i really *wasn't ready.
my sibling was exact opposite - got out as soon as he was able and never came back

[RunningMn9]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

[geezer]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

But they are. (Generalization, of course, but the numbers bear me out.) It's not the lack of accomplishment, it's the lack of ambition.

[El Guapo]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

But they are. (Generalization, of course, but the numbers bear me out.) It's not the lack of accomplishment, it's the lack of ambition.

What are the numbers?

[tgb]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

But they are. (Generalization, of course, but the numbers bear me out.) It's not the lack of accomplishment, it's the lack of ambition.

What are the numbers?

1.753, 37, and 493.

[Zarathud]

The Baby boomers were promised if they worked hard, they would stay with and move up the company.

Generation X was promised the new digital economy where we could make our own jobs and succeed with hard work and luck.

The current generation believes in none of those promises, as they often turned out empty. There are fewer opportunities and setbacks are inevitable because they are largely disposable. How can we be surprised they are less motivated at more risk and less rewards? Sure, they don't know how to work as hard. But there is less profit on it, too.

[geezer]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

But they are. (Generalization, of course, but the numbers bear me out.) It's not the lack of accomplishment, it's the lack of ambition.

What are the numbers?

What Ironrod referenced - the number of boomerang kids, basically, and perhaps as importantly, the number of people that accept that it's ok/admissible/preferable to be one of those kids/young adults. To be clear though, the parents are likely equally responsible but the net effect is, so far, not good.

[geezer]

The Baby boomers were promised if they worked hard, they would stay with and move up the company.

Generation X was promised the new digital economy where we could make our own jobs and succeed with hard work and luck.

The current generation believes in none of those promises, as they often turned out empty. There are fewer opportunities and setbacks are inevitable because they are largely disposable. How can we be surprised they are less motivated at more risk and less rewards? Sure, they don't know how to work as hard. But there is less profit on it, too.

And? They're disposable because they think creating cat memes should pay a living wage, just like 500k other 20-somethings in their city. The fact that I'm not guaranteed anything made and makes me work harder, not give up and crawl back to mom's basement, as comforting as the idea sounds some days. Anecdotal, but in my experience it's not that these kids can't earn a living, it's that they can't earn a living doing what they want in a "cool place" they want to live. But some - the ones that hustle and work their asses off - do.

[RunningMn9]

You bought the lie, they didn't. Fighting each other for scraps is not appealing to them.

[GreenGoo]

I find it odd that someone would be proud of that sort of behavior.

I moved out two months after graduating college, when I got married. I derive no particular pride from this decision, it's just what happened. Financially, it was an incredibly stupid decision.

Edit to add: I also don't regret the decision, it just seems odd to me to be so proud of your decisions like that.

You find it odd that people are proud when they start making their way in the world, becoming self-reliant?

[GreenGoo]

You bought the lie, they didn't. Fighting each other for scraps is not appealing to them.

Fighting for scraps is all we've ever done. If they want to opt out, great, I guess. The generation after them (assuming there is one) can find solace in the fact that their parents didn't think there was enough payoff for working hard, so they didn't. Who's home is the next generation going to live in until they're 30?

What could go wrong?

I get that you think corporate america is a scam perpetrated on the middle class, and that's fine. The solution isn't to sit in your mom's basement playing video games until you're 30.

[geezer]

You bought the lie, they didn't. Fighting each other for scraps is not appealing to them.

What lie is that? I mean, I can't go buy a Lear and jet around like a Kardashian so I can play in Monaco, but I can travel freely, read and learn more than I could ever hope to in a single human lifetime (and understand more than pretty much any human that's come before me in the process), love and spend my life with a friend of my choosing, and all for the relatively meager price of 1/2 my waking hours during 5/7 of my week? Woe is me, I guess? I mean, if you find some truth or honor in tilling the field of your feudal master from sunup to sundown, then dying of an infection at 30 to be somehow more honest or noble, then knock yourself out, but that's fuckall crazy IMHO.

[El Guapo]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

But they are. (Generalization, of course, but the numbers bear me out.) It's not the lack of accomplishment, it's the lack of ambition.

What are the numbers?

What Ironrod referenced - the number of boomerang kids, basically, and perhaps as importantly, the number of people that accept that it's ok/admissible/preferable to be one of those kids/young adults. To be clear though, the parents are likely equally responsible but the net effect is, so far, not good.

I can't help but notice the lack of numbers here. Kraken referenced the percentage of kids living at home after college, though that's an incredibly thin reed for asserting a lack of ambition amongst the next generation.

[geezer]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

But they are. (Generalization, of course, but the numbers bear me out.) It's not the lack of accomplishment, it's the lack of ambition.

What are the numbers?

What Ironrod referenced - the number of boomerang kids, basically, and perhaps as importantly, the number of people that accept that it's ok/admissible/preferable to be one of those kids/young adults. To be clear though, the parents are likely equally responsible but the net effect is, so far, not good.

I can't help but notice the lack of numbers here. Kraken referenced the percentage of kids living at home after college, though that's an incredibly thin reed for asserting a lack of ambition amongst the next generation.

They love stuff, are less willing to work for it.

[Holman]

This thread is Lawn.

Anecdotally, I see my 6th- and 4th-grader doing an hour of homework every night. At that age I had precisely no homework assigned. From this I conclude that kids today have a work ethic greater by a factor of infinity.

[El Guapo]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

But they are. (Generalization, of course, but the numbers bear me out.) It's not the lack of accomplishment, it's the lack of ambition.

What are the numbers?

What Ironrod referenced - the number of boomerang kids, basically, and perhaps as importantly, the number of people that accept that it's ok/admissible/preferable to be one of those kids/young adults. To be clear though, the parents are likely equally responsible but the net effect is, so far, not good.

I can't help but notice the lack of numbers here. Kraken referenced the percentage of kids living at home after college, though that's an incredibly thin reed for asserting a lack of ambition amongst the next generation.

They love stuff, are less willing to work for it.

Hold on...you're telling me that kids today like having more stuff, but would like to get it while minimizing the amount of work? That's madness.

[gbasden]

Hold on...you're telling me that kids today like having more stuff, but would like to get it while minimizing the amount of work? That's madness.

Say it ain't so!

I work with some really talented and driven Millenials and I haven't seen them behave any differently than the norm I remember when I started my first few real jobs. OTOH, there have been days I've driven to work, felt awful, and went out and took a nap in my car. I'm also on call 24x7 and work frequently at 1am. I don't give anyone shit for not doing a cookie cutter 8-5 work day. As long as your shit gets done, I couldn't care less when people do it.

[tgb]

Hold on...you're telling me that kids today like having more stuff, but would like to get it while minimizing the amount of work? That's madness.

Say it ain't so!

I work with some really talented and driven Millenials and I haven't seen them behave any differently than the norm I remember when I started my first few real jobs. OTOH, there have been days I've driven to work, felt awful, and went out and took a nap in my car. I'm also on call 24x7 and work frequently at 1am. I don't give anyone shit for not doing a cookie cutter 8-5 work day. As long as your shit gets done, I couldn't care less when people do it.

Depends on the job. Like you, i don't worry about hours. Every day I have a "to do" list, and my work day is over when the list is complete. Some days it takes one hour, others 10. Of course, being self-employed helps.

But as to a call center, when your job is to sit from 8 to 5 taking phone calls, how else would your work be "complete"?

[RunningMn9]

You find it odd that people are proud when they start making their way in the world, becoming self-reliant?

No, I don't find that an odd thing to be proud of, although I don't feel any particular pride over doing that either. I find it odd to be proud of the need to be as far away as possible from a family support structure.

I understand the need in some circumstances. I don't understand the pride, or the presumption that people that don't mimic it are co-dependent pussies.

Geezer - the lie that the point of life is to work hard, or the lie that working hard is sufficient. I know many millennials that have a perfectly acceptable work ethic. Some moved out on their own at an early age, others had great jobs but still lived at home until their late 20s. Financially, the ones that lived at home until their late 20s made *much* better decisions and are better off as a result.

I don't judge millennials for doing things differently than I did, because I attach no particular value to the path that I took. It's the path that worked for me. If the path that works for someone else is to stay home or to move back and rely on that support structure for longer than I did, more power to them. I totally get it.

[RunningMn9]

Multigenerational living arrangements only fell out of favor here in the US after WW2 and are still very common in many countries.

[tgb]

. I find it odd to be proud of the need to be as far away as possible from a family support structure.

I never said I was proud of it. I'm not ashamed of it either. I was stating it as a fact.

Spare me your judgement.

[El Guapo]

. I find it odd to be proud of the need to be as far away as possible from a family support structure.

I never said I was proud of it. I'm not ashamed of it either. I was stating it as a fact.

Spare me your judgement.

I mean, saying that you took the bus to California only because you couldn't take it across the Pacific doesn't exactly sound like a neutral statement of "I decided to not move home."

[msteelers]

I find it irritating that there is this perception that it's lazy for people to live with their parents after college. First, keep in mind that this idea of kids having to move out as soon as they are old enough is new. The norm throughout most of human history is for families to live together. And it's not like people are just moving home because they are lazy. Have you seen rent prices lately? I live in the "affordable" part of town, and a 1-bedroom apartment that is under 800 square feet costs just under $1,000. Coming out of college into the Great Recession meant that for a lot of millennials they were getting into the work force at the worst time. Not a lot of jobs, the ones that existed didn't pay well, we were burdened with a lot of debt right away. So we were faced with a choice: grind it out because we are "independent" and stubborn, or move home to pay off debts and save for a future.

I'm 32, which puts me on the older side of the millennial generation. Most of my friends have lived at home at one point in their life, but none of them did it because they were lazy. One friend lived at home while he worked his way up the corporate chain. He's now a homeowner, and helps support his sister (Gen X'er) and niece. Another moved back home to help out her mom take care of her dying father. The best man at my wedding lived at home with his parents for years while he built his company up from scratch. I have two friends who didn't move home. One walked out of college into a leadership position at his father's company. The other dropped out of college to live in Israel. That didn't last long, and when he moved back home he worked his butt off to succeed in the business world.

Personally, I spent most of my 20s struggling to make it on my own. After a breakup with a long-term girlfriend, I was faced with a choice. I could continue working at a job that I didn't really like and struggling to make it on my own, or I could take a risk and move back in with my parents while I switched careers into something that I actually wanted to do. That risk appears to be paying off. My new career is going well, I met my future wife, and I'm now a homeowner. My life would be completely different, and I would be significantly less happy and successful, if I didn't move back in with my parents.

I can't help but take it a little personal when I see older generations call millennials lazy, and that the fact that we move back in with our parents is somehow proof that we are man-babies. But now that I know people used to try and stab themselves for fun, I'm not so sure the views of the older generations are all that important.

[Vorret]

I find it irritating that there is this perception that it's lazy for people to live with their parents after college. First, keep in mind that this idea of kids having to move out as soon as they are old enough is new. The norm throughout most of human history is for families to live together. And it's not like people are just moving home because they are lazy. Have you seen rent prices lately? I live in the "affordable" part of town, and a 1-bedroom apartment that is under 800 square feet costs just under $1,000. Coming out of college into the Great Recession meant that for a lot of millennials they were getting into the work force at the worst time. Not a lot of jobs, the ones that existed didn't pay well, we were burdened with a lot of debt right away. So we were faced with a choice: grind it out because we are "independent" and stubborn, or move home to pay off debts and save for a future.

I'm 32, which puts me on the older side of the millennial generation. Most of my friends have lived at home at one point in their life, but none of them did it because they were lazy. One friend lived at home while he worked his way up the corporate chain. He's now a homeowner, and helps support his sister (Gen X'er) and niece. Another moved back home to help out her mom take care of her dying father. The best man at my wedding lived at home with his parents for years while he built his company up from scratch. I have two friends who didn't move home. One walked out of college into a leadership position at his father's company. The other dropped out of college to live in Israel. That didn't last long, and when he moved back home he worked his butt off to succeed in the business world.

Personally, I spent most of my 20s struggling to make it on my own. After a breakup with a long-term girlfriend, I was faced with a choice. I could continue working at a job that I didn't really like and struggling to make it on my own, or I could take a risk and move back in with my parents while I switched careers into something that I actually wanted to do. That risk appears to be paying off. My new career is going well, I met my future wife, and I'm now a homeowner. My life would be completely different, and I would be significantly less happy and successful, if I didn't move back in with my parents.

I can't help but take it a little personal when I see older generations call millennials lazy, and that the fact that we move back in with our parents is somehow proof that we are man-babies. But now that I know people used to try and stab themselves for fun, I'm not so sure the views of the older generations are all that important.

I moved out at 23, after working over 4 years at my current job.
I don't see a problem with it, especially with houses being as expansive as they are right now saving a bit while staying home seems logical to me, pay some rent/food money to your parents if they ask for it but otherwise just save some money for your future.

I dated a girl a year and a half ago who still lived with her parents at 31 years old, that was slightly odd to me, she tried to buy a condo, couldn't and she wouldn't move into an apartment until she could afford to buy either a house or a different condo, this was bad.

[geezer]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

But they are. (Generalization, of course, but the numbers bear me out.) It's not the lack of accomplishment, it's the lack of ambition.

What are the numbers?

What Ironrod referenced - the number of boomerang kids, basically, and perhaps as importantly, the number of people that accept that it's ok/admissible/preferable to be one of those kids/young adults. To be clear though, the parents are likely equally responsible but the net effect is, so far, not good.

I can't help but notice the lack of numbers here. Kraken referenced the percentage of kids living at home after college, though that's an incredibly thin reed for asserting a lack of ambition amongst the next generation.

They love stuff, are less willing to work for it.

Hold on...you're telling me that kids today like having more stuff, but would like to get it while minimizing the amount of work? That's madness.

No, I'm telling you that kids today like having more stuff but are *less willing* than our generation to work for it (just as our generation is less willing than the one before us was), if you believe the self-reported numbers in that link.

[RunningMn9]

I never said I was proud of it. I'm not ashamed of it either. I was stating it as a fact.

Spare me your judgement.

That's how it came across. Spare me your indignity at my comment/judgement.

[RunningMn9]

I can't help but take it a little personal when I see older generations call millennials lazy, and that the fact that we move back in with our parents is somehow proof that we are man-babies.

Like everything else, the criticism stems from a need to validate their own choices.

I'm not a millennial, but my awareness of history extends beyond 50 years. Multi-generational family living arrangements have been (and are) common throughout most of human history. Even within this country, it wasn't until the post-WW2 era where this suddenly became a source of shame. While I never moved back in with my parents, I did have my in-laws move in with me for a few years. While it wasn't without it's difficulties, it offered tremendous benefits to my family as well (few of which were financial by the way).

For me, I view the re-emergence of multi-generational family living to be the result of many factors, most recently obviously the financial hardship caused by the Great Recession. But the trend has been growing since the early 80s, so it's not *just* that. Contrary to tgb's ornery response, I don't judge his path, or even really the way he framed his path (as noted by another, it was really his last comment that stood out as curious to me). I judge the assertion that his path is the "right" path. Right for him? No doubt.

But "right" in the sense that he gets to judge millennials because a different path works for them? I don't think so. I chose the path that seemed best to me at the time. My wife and I got married a few months after college graduation. While I don't regret it, even waiting a year would have created a significantly more stable financial base for our life together. It's somewhat irrelevant now, 20 years later, but it would have made a huge difference at the time I think.

I see some people taking that path now, and frankly, I congratulate them on it. They are now in their late-20s and really starting to feel the pressure to move out (from people like tgb and geezer), so that is where their path is taking them. But their path has put tens of thousands of dollars in the bank as savings to properly prepare for this next step.

Who am I to criticize that? I envy it.

As a follow up to geezer - I guess I would amend my comment about buying the "lie" to read that the fruits of your labor/opportunity/luck are carrot that they should be chasing. If it works for you - great. If it works for them - great. But if they want something different out of life than busting their hump for 45 years so they can afford trinkets and travel, that's their call. They get one opportunity to live the life they want. If they don't buy the line that it's all worth it because your modern serfdom is better than medieval serfdom so it's all worth it, that's for them to decide.

I have no doubt that they look down on you for choosing it every bit as much as you look down on them for avoiding it.

[tgb]

. I find it odd to be proud of the need to be as far away as possible from a family support structure.

I never said I was proud of it. I'm not ashamed of it either. I was stating it as a fact.

Spare me your judgement.

I mean, saying that you took the bus to California only because you couldn't take it across the Pacific doesn't exactly sound like a neutral statement of "I decided to not move home."

The shop called. Your sense of humor will be ready to be picked up at 3.

[geezer]

I find it irritating that there is this perception that it's lazy for people to live with their parents after college. First, keep in mind that this idea of kids having to move out as soon as they are old enough is new. The norm throughout most of human history is for families to live together. And it's not like people are just moving home because they are lazy. Have you seen rent prices lately? I live in the "affordable" part of town, and a 1-bedroom apartment that is under 800 square feet costs just under $1,000. Coming out of college into the Great Recession meant that for a lot of millennials they were getting into the work force at the worst time. Not a lot of jobs, the ones that existed didn't pay well, we were burdened with a lot of debt right away. So we were faced with a choice: grind it out because we are "independent" and stubborn, or move home to pay off debts and save for a future.

I'm 32, which puts me on the older side of the millennial generation. Most of my friends have lived at home at one point in their life, but none of them did it because they were lazy. One friend lived at home while he worked his way up the corporate chain. He's now a homeowner, and helps support his sister (Gen X'er) and niece. Another moved back home to help out her mom take care of her dying father. The best man at my wedding lived at home with his parents for years while he built his company up from scratch. I have two friends who didn't move home. One walked out of college into a leadership position at his father's company. The other dropped out of college to live in Israel. That didn't last long, and when he moved back home he worked his butt off to succeed in the business world.

Personally, I spent most of my 20s struggling to make it on my own. After a breakup with a long-term girlfriend, I was faced with a choice. I could continue working at a job that I didn't really like and struggling to make it on my own, or I could take a risk and move back in with my parents while I switched careers into something that I actually wanted to do. That risk appears to be paying off. My new career is going well, I met my future wife, and I'm now a homeowner. My life would be completely different, and I would be significantly less happy and successful, if I didn't move back in with my parents.

I can't help but take it a little personal when I see older generations call millennials lazy, and that the fact that we move back in with our parents is somehow proof that we are man-babies. But now that I know people used to try and stab themselves for fun, I'm not so sure the views of the older generations are all that important.

Understand that we're speaking in generational generalizations and trends here, and not to the merits of one individual. While I haven't said it, it should be obvious that I'm aware that there are a tremendous amount of millennials with incredible work ethic, drive and zest for life, and I both understand and agree with the idea that in some instances, it makes a load of sense for any one individual to live under a parent's roof during some portion of adulthood. That's not my concern. Hell, I'm not even necessarily saying that not valuing "hard work" is a shortcoming. On the plus side, studies show that millennial place very high values on parenting and ultimately, if they can become better parents that my generation (i.e. reward without being a bunch of helicopter nannies) society may be better off for it.

I guess ultimately RM9 has a point - I may not have made their life choices and they may not respect mine, but that's ok insofar as we are able to bridge those gaps and adapt to one another to form a working society. But noting that millennials are not as independent or choose to take fewer risks in life, or are seemingly content with ceding some of theie self-actualization isn't necessarily pejorative, it's just a matter of fact and unfortunately, and IMHO, those trends may leave them less well prepared to deal with the conflict of ideas that happen all too often in the real world, when one's values are not the only ones in play. Look, I can and do handle millennials in the workplace. I'm 44. I have friends, employees and even business partners who are solidly in the millennial generation. They are, to a person, intelligent, driven and flexible, and they have in many instance helped me past my own preconceptions of how the world "ought" to work. But when someone like me is willing to adapt and realize the reality of a different mindset, but a generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s are convinced that they already have all the answers, to the point that they literally shut down opposing ideas, there's a problem, and it's not with me (Which returns us to the original topic quite nicely).

[Combustible Lemur]

I mean, I get that some people want out, and they move out and that's great. I don't get this universal "this is what I did, so fuck this generation for not doing it too. They're a bunch of co-dependent pussies." I'm paraphrasing of course.

But they are. (Generalization, of course, but the numbers bear me out.) It's not the lack of accomplishment, it's the lack of ambition.

What are the numbers?

What Ironrod referenced - the number of boomerang kids, basically, and perhaps as importantly, the number of people that accept that it's ok/admissible/preferable to be one of those kids/young adults. To be clear though, the parents are likely equally responsible but the net effect is, so far, not good.

I can't help but notice the lack of numbers here. Kraken referenced the percentage of kids living at home after college, though that's an incredibly thin reed for asserting a lack of ambition amongst the next generation.

They love stuff, are less willing to work for it.

Hold on...you're telling me that kids today like having more stuff, but would like to get it while minimizing the amount of work? That's madness.

No, I'm telling you that kids today like having more stuff but are *less willing* than our generation to work for it (just as our generation is less willing than the one before us was), if you believe the self-reported numbers in that link.

I tend to see this as a good thing. The class conflict has often been what can we get out of the poor and middle class with the least inveatment. Having the new generation look at the machine and say it's just not worth it give me a better deal, may be a step in the right direction.

The question is where the edge of that profitable cliff is. No one wants to be Greece.

[ImLawBoy]

but a generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s are convinced that they already have all the answers, to the point that they literally shut down opposing ideas

Doesn't that describe every generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s (at least from the perspectives of the older generations)?

[ImLawBoy]

So is this the thread where I bitch and moan about how old people I've worked with have been terrible employees, or is that a separate thread?

This is a really good point. All things equal, I'd rather manage a team of young millennials than a team of 50+ year olds. In my experience (which should be taken as gospel and fact, of course), the younger generation is going to be much more flexible and adaptable than the older. The older generation will bitch and moan about every change and complain about how things used to be better back in the day. My worst experiences as a manager were trying to get the older employees to accept simple changes.

[RunningMn9]

but a generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s are convinced that they already have all the answers, to the point that they literally shut down opposing ideas

Doesn't that describe every generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s (at least from the perspectives of the older generations)?

Yes.

[geezer]

but a generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s are convinced that they already have all the answers, to the point that they literally shut down opposing ideas

Doesn't that describe every generation of kids in their 20s and early 30s (at least from the perspectives of the older generations)?

Maybe? Sure, the 60's boomer protests are seen as a symbol of the era, and I guess their "sit-ins" and peaceful occupations could be seen as a physical rejection of the dominant culture's ethos, and today we have the various incidents that were the original subject of this thread, but I honestly don't recall my generation growing such fits. In fact, as I recall, we though the idea of "free speech zones" and such to be pretty repulsive. Maybe we really are the "whatever" generation and it's the impassioned kids before and after us that have it right, but generation of people that think certain ideas "hurt too much" to hear, and thus ought to be censored? That doesn't really work for me.

[geezer]

So is this the thread where I bitch and moan about how old people I've worked with have been terrible employees, or is that a separate thread?

This is a really good point. All things equal, I'd rather manage a team of young millennials than a team of 50+ year olds. In my experience (which should be taken as gospel and fact, of course), the younger generation is going to be much more flexible and adaptable than the older. The older generation will bitch and moan about every change and complain about how things used to be better back in the day. My worst experiences as a manager were trying to get the older employees to accept simple changes.

FWIW, I would generally concur.