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College students and their safe space

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malchior
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by malchior » Mon May 29, 2017 12:12 pm

Well that is some special bullshit with a side of racism. I don't think a video with a crowd yelling "Black Power" and "these racists gotta go" at a tiny white woman is probably the best image to get a 'popular' movement going.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by RunningMn9 » Mon May 29, 2017 1:50 pm

I saw the initial video (of the prof outside his office), and was thoroughly disgusted by the stupidity of the students. Gold star to the professor for keeping his cool the entire time. I read his email that "started" this and it was entirely reasonable.

College students don't realize that they're still dummies. I assume the spineless school will fire the professor in the end. Ugh.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Wed May 31, 2017 8:29 pm

WSJ Opinion piece by Bret Weinstein The Campus Mob Came for Me—and You, Professor, Could Be Next
Day of Absence is a tradition at Evergreen. In previous years students and faculty of color organized a day on which they met off campus—a symbolic act based on the Douglas Turner Ward play in which all the black residents of a Southern town fail to show up one morning. This year, however, the formula was reversed. “White students, staff and faculty will be invited to leave the campus for the day’s activities,” the student newspaper reported, adding that the decision was reached after people of color “voiced concern over feeling as if they are unwelcome on campus, following the 2016 election.”

In March I objected in an email to all staff and faculty. “There is a huge difference between a group or coalition deciding to voluntarily absent themselves from a shared space in order to highlight their vital and under-appreciated roles . . . and a group or coalition encouraging another group to go away,” I wrote. “On a college campus, one’s right to speak—or to be—must never be based on skin color.”

My email was published by the student newspaper, and Day of Absence came and went almost without incident. The protest of my class emerged seemingly out of the blue more than a month later. Evergreen has slipped into madness. You don’t need the news to tell you that—the protesters’ own videos will do. But those clips reveal neither the path that led to this psychosis, nor the cautionary nature of the tale for other campuses.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:35 pm

"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow

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em2nought
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by em2nought » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:02 am

Sort of sucks when your best and brightest can't even read their own list of demands out loud. :ninja:
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by tjg_marantz » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:17 am

Covfefe

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Max Peck » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:24 am

em2nought wrote:Sort of sucks when your best and brightest can't even read their own list of demands out loud. :ninja:
That just makes them presidential. :coffee:
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by em2nought » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:27 pm

tjg_marantz wrote:Covfefe

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touche! lol :oops:
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Enough » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:52 pm

Just be careful with what you're sourcing on YouTube, that shit will rot your brain Moliere. Exploring your source's Pepe avatared and red-pilled Twitter account (Fame Game), it becomes apparent they are still living in Gamer's Gate, live to attack SJWs, clearly hate trans people, are full-on the trump train, and they promote Islamophobia as a matter of practice. And in the video you linked they love using the cuckery terminology, ick.

The comments under the video and the other videos related to the one you posted are if anything just as bad or worse than what the students say in your linked video. Their audience includes plenty who use Nazi/SS handles and love to routinely call for extreme violence. A quick google search brought up this gem of a post, wherein your source lambasts a dad for being concerned when he discovered his daughter dabbling in Nazism online. He's staying current with railing against 'fake news' and how the networks refuse to show Islam as the dirty awful religion that it is (sic). He even literally called for right wing death squads on Twitter in reaction to London attacks. That said, as proud Greener, I am deeply saddened by this shit show (and my ire points at both sides), but sweet mother of mercy could you try to source even a halfway decent non-hysterical story about it instead of giving hits to these twits that are at best an equal part of the problem?

Oh and Professor Weinstein is trying desperately to make this all about him which speaks volumes. Funny how your source fails to mention that the call for him to be suspended has long ago been retracted by the protesters. The protests are more about the campus police and institutionalized racism by far then just him. The sort of inciting language promoted by your source and the unhinged lefty students at Evergreen could end in a very bad place. I sure hope that some crazy righty or lefty doesn't decide to take out their frustrations on campus. Ugh, here's a wannabe white supremacist active shooter situation.

In the spirit of fairness, here's another side to this story and here's an actual real media story on Weinstein that shows nobody was initially coercing him in the literal sense. Fwiw, I have checked in with some Greeners who still went to class and nobody was coerced in any way for not taking part in the Day of Absence. Weinstein has some solid points, but he inflamed the situation and way overstated/played his hand. Edit and just to be clear, I overall think highly of Weinstein from what I know of him.

Second edit: I'm reading that only 200 staff, faculty and students out of roughly 4,800 at Evergreen left campus to take part in this year’s Day of Absence. Interesting we are not besieged by reports of the other thousands that didn't participate getting harassed.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:42 pm

I usually don't bother reading YouTube comments unless I need a laugh for their absurdity. I just found the video interesting for showing all the crazy stuff happening elsewhere while I play video games.

A Second Evergreen Professor Speaks Out
The tale is about two men trying to save Evergreen. One is an absolute coward (Bridges) and the other is an ultimate hero (Weinstein). Who should be forced to resign? Weinstein reluctantly went on Fox News, because no other news source would pick up his story. His excellent op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal followed. Videos don’t lie, Weinstein’s logic prevailed, and cognitive dissonance set in amongst Evergreen faculty. This was the first time that I found out that those who watch Tucker Carlson are the “alt-right”. I should probably tell my family. Objections were made about whether Weinstein had mischaracterized Day of Absence/Day of Presence as “forcing” white students off campus. He didn’t, but why would this detail negate everything else that Weinstein wrote? When one is confronted with truths that contradict closely held beliefs, the mind begins to make outlandish rationalizations. The faculty email response will someday be used in psychology textbooks as a case study in group thinking.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:26 pm

Enough wrote:Oh and Professor Weinstein is trying desperately to make this all about him which speaks volumes. Funny how your source fails to mention that the call for him to be suspended has long ago been retracted by the protesters. The protests are more about the campus police and institutionalized racism by far then just him. The sort of inciting language promoted by your source and the unhinged lefty students at Evergreen could end in a very bad place. I sure hope that some crazy righty or lefty doesn't decide to take out their frustrations on campus. Ugh, here's a wannabe white supremacist active shooter situation.

In the spirit of fairness, here's another side to this story and here's an actual real media story on Weinstein that shows nobody was initially coercing him in the literal sense. Fwiw, I have checked in with some Greeners who still went to class and nobody was coerced in any way for not taking part in the Day of Absence. Weinstein has some solid points, but he inflamed the situation and way overstated/played his hand. Edit and just to be clear, I overall think highly of Weinstein from what I know of him.
Joe Rogan Experience #970 - Bret Weinstein

He talks about a number of these issues. I found it worth listening to.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Sepiche » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:55 am

Looks like our own Mr. Fed took to the pages of the LA Times to give his thoughts on 1st Amendment tropes:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Kurth » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:38 am

Sepiche wrote:Looks like our own Mr. Fed took to the pages of the LA Times to give his thoughts on 1st Amendment tropes:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html
Great article by Mr. Fed. I regret reading the comments, though. Not a Yahoo-like cess pool, but some really, really dumb ones.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by gbasden » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:53 am

Kurth wrote:
Sepiche wrote:Looks like our own Mr. Fed took to the pages of the LA Times to give his thoughts on 1st Amendment tropes:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html
Great article by Mr. Fed. I regret reading the comments, though. Not a Yahoo-like cess pool, but some really, really dumb ones.
Ugh. I should have learned by now not to look at the comments, even when prompted to by your evil provocations. Ken's article was fantastic, though.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:13 pm

Multiple arrested after fight inside Berkeley’s ‘empathy tent'

I think they're confused by the word "empathy". :lol:
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by em2nought » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:28 pm

Moliere wrote:Multiple arrested after fight inside Berkeley’s ‘empathy tent'

I think they're confused by the word "empathy". :lol:
Empathy is probably a word we can go ahead and remove from the dictionary. :mrgreen:
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:34 pm

“liberalism is white supremacy”
Sept. 27, Black Lives Matter protestors at the College of William and Mary interrupted “Students and the First Amendment,” a scheduled event co-sponsored by AMP and the American Civil Liberties Union.

First Amendment rights have dominated national conversation in recent months, with opposing sides debating the extent to which hate speech counts as free speech. Following the Aug. 11-12 Charlottesville protests, the ACLU voiced a decisive stance on the issue by defending white nationalists’ right to free speech. The move attracted widespread backlash from ACLU supporters and detractors alike, as well as the College’s BLM chapter, which responded by staging its Sept. 27 protest.

The ACLU discussion never occurred because protesters took over the stage within five minutes of Executive Director of the ACLU of Virginia Claire Guthrie Gastañaga’s entrance. Signs in hand, the protesters shouted chants such as “liberalism is white supremacy” and “the revolution will not uphold the constitution.”
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:08 pm

Nutters.

Maybe Westboro church was full up on their nut quota?

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Max Peck » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:15 pm

Since this is basically the "kids these days" thread: The new generation is the worst, and always has been.
Millennials may be the world’s most hated generation – at the moment. But is disdain towards youth a new dynamic? By delving into the archives, we found that older people have been griping about young people for more than 2,000 years.

Far more surprising is that, throughout the centuries, their criticisms have been remarkably similar. From complaints that the next generation are both too cautious and yet downright dangerous, too worried about the world and at the same time too self-absorbed to care, here are some of our favourites.
I'm not sure, though, that Millennials are the most hated generation at this point in time; I'd probably give that honor to the Boomers.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Kraken » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:34 pm

Depends on who's doing the hating. You gotta feel kinda sorry for Gen X, though; nobody talks about them anymore, or really ever had much to say about them.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by ImLawBoy » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:01 am

Kraken wrote:Depends on who's doing the hating. You gotta feel kinda sorry for Gen X, though; nobody talks about them anymore, or really ever had much to say about them.
We're pretty "meh" about the whole thing.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:56 pm

Brandeis University cancels play about political correctness to avoid offending anyone.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by pr0ner » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:59 pm

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by geezer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:28 pm

Kraken wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:34 pm
Depends on who's doing the hating. You gotta feel kinda sorry for Gen X, though; nobody talks about them anymore, or really ever had much to say about them.
I think we still just mostly keep our heads down and work. We shake our heads at our boomer parents who we've lost to Fox News, and get annoyed at millennials in the workplace who seem to do a whole fuck-ton of not much.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:55 am

Penn Jillette: If Brandeis wants to censor Lenny Bruce, I don't need college
I just read in the news that Brandeis University, one of the real universities that I didn’t go to, canceled a play about Lenny Bruce. Just drink in the irony: A school named for Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis — a champion of free speech — censored a play about a satirist of such renown that the school acquired his papers to advance its scholarship funded in part by the Brandeis Legacy Fund for Social Justice and the ACLU of Massachusetts.

The powers that be (I guess that’s the students, right?) thought that some of Lenny’s old material would be offensive to 21st century college students. No kidding. Lenny Bruce invented transgressive modern American stand-up comedy. Lenny didn’t “go there” — he discovered “there.” He lived “there.”

To college-age people in the 21st century, Lenny Bruce is wicked offensive, even rougher than he sounded back in the '60s. Even the greatest speaker of the 20th century, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., used some language that doesn’t sound quite right to our ears today. But Lenny Bruce wasn’t even right to '60s ears. He was arrested for what he said and wasn’t pardoned until the 21st century.

I can’t imagine any 18-year-old listening to Lenny Bruce’s words and not being shocked. Lenny is hard. He serves up a lot to think and worry about. That was his gig.

Brandeis banned this play about Lenny Bruce because students thought it might upset them. Maybe it’s not a good play. Who cares? I don’t have a dog in this fight. I never went to college. I’m not paying for college. College students can choose to spend their money to avoid the risk of being offended. It’s a lot of jingle — family money, scholarships, government loans and personal loans. Maybe they don’t want to pay to be challenged. That’s a lot of debt to carry to be comfortable.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:25 pm

Williams College Students Can Report Each Other for 'Making Comments on Social Media' About Religion or Politics
Williams College is one of at least 100 campuses with a system in place for students to report each other for saying or doing something slightly offensive. These trivially disturbing occurrences are known as "bias incidents"—and at Williams, virtually anything could qualify.

According to the Massachusetts college's website, "name-calling and stereotyping" are examples of bias. Telling a joke that draws its humor from a stereotype is also wrong. Students shouldn't use slurs, or the word "gay" as an insult, or display "a sign that is color­coded pink for girls and blue for boys," or imitate someone's "cultural norm or practice."
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Jag » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:33 pm

Definitely think that is overkill, but I think it's time to retire gay and retard as insults. Sometime I will hear my kids use them against each other or with friends and I lay into them for it.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Jaymann » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:37 pm

Jag wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:33 pm
Definitely think that is overkill, but I think it's time to retire gay and retard as insults. Sometime I will hear my kids use them against each other or with friends and I lay into them for it.
True, but it is hard to renconcile free speech with college students narcing on each other for thought crimes.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by El Guapo » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:42 pm

A lot of it depends on how it operates in practice. If someone's regularly calling another person gay, at some point that amounts to harassment, and it's proper for the administration to get involved. If it's like one person crossing a line one time, then not so much.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by malchior » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:45 pm

That schools position about free speech is to protect students from bad feelings using totalitarian police state tactics is a *cue Bob Uecker voice* bit over the top. When they get to the real world they'll surely be protected the same way from harsh words.

Edit: I agree with El Guapo's note though - there are lines that demarcate harassment. However there have been ways to deal with that for years. Back when I was worked in education and sat on tribunals...the process was pretty fair. Though I saw it venture into star chamber on occasion. My experience may or may not have been typical. Still true harassment has no place in education, the workplace, or in the community.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Moliere » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:25 pm

Not college, but think of the children!!!

The mindless attack on letting kids have ‘best friends’
Our schools began to ban best friends, too. Most parents know that schools have been doing this informally for some time, but psychologist Barbara Greenberg caused a stir with a recent piece in US News & World Report, noting that she sees a trend of American schools implementing an actual ban.

Greenberg approves of the move because she is concerned by what she calls the “emotional distress” of a kid losing the status of best friend or the “inherently exclusionary” nature of best-friendship itself. Greenberg writes that “child after child comes to my therapy office distressed when their best friend has now given someone else this coveted title.”

Is it tough for a 6-year-old when their best friend drops them? Of course. But shake it off, kid, life gets much harder than that. As my babushka used to say, “Let this be the worst thing that ever happens to you.”
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Defiant » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:36 pm

The tl/dr version is that college aged people aren't that different from other people when it comes to free speech, and if anything, are a little more tolerant to offensive speech after completing school.

A selection of some of the tweets:















I don't quite agree with all of whats in the thread, but it's worth reading through.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Remus West » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:13 am

It seems Spencer is trying to come to Ann Arbor to speak this summer. I'm going to open the floor as to what I should have on the sign I hold while sitting outside his venue if he comes. The snarkier the better. Preferably something that won't get me arrested though.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Enough » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:23 pm

I will admit that I have had some heartburn over this thread's focus on students as if there is something downright unique about students needing safe spaces with the implicit assumption that other groups don't engage in similar behavior. How about a high schooler calling a congressman on a gun walkout saying Congress needs to get off their fucking asses and then Amodei's office reported said student to the school for profanity who has now been suspended and deprived of his class officer position for that call?
Rep. Mark Amodei (R-NV) defended one of his staffers on Monday after a high school student’s profanity-laced call led the staffer to report the call to the student’s school, resulting in the student’s suspension.

“I’m not apologizing because my guy accurately described what happened in the phone call,” Amodei told the Nevada Independent.

17-year-old Noah Christiansen called Amodei’s office during Wednesday’s national school walkout to say that lawmakers needed to “get off their fucking asses” and do something about gun violence, such as raising the minimum age to purchase firearms.

The staffer who took the call contacted the principal of Christiansen’s high school about the incident, who then slapped the student with a two-day suspension for “disrespectful language.” Christiansen was also barred from assuming his role as elected class secretary-treasurer.
That sounds pretty "safe-spacey" to me. When I look at the youth of today I am increasingly seeing more activism overall, but I sure don't see the majority of those activists fitting this thread's narrative.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by pr0ner » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:28 pm

From that article:
“I’m smart enough to use better words than of course the f-word,” Christiansen told the Independent. “But, at the same time, even if I do want to use words and use them over and over again, it’s my right to do so.”
Guess now is as good a time as any for him to learn that while it's his right to say whatever he wants, it doesn't exempt him from the consequences of his word choice.
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:40 pm

The school has a right to police speech where it's disruptive to the conduct of the school. Reading the post above, nowhere is there evidence that this follows that rule. The school is a government entity, and needs to be mindful of student rights, especially free speech ones.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by stessier » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:41 pm

The article doesn't say what type of high school the kid attends. If must be a private school because at a public school, the ACLU would have been doing a lot more than just suggesting they wipe the suspension.
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Isgrimnur
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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:43 pm

Ledger-Enquirer
Noah Christiansen, a 17-year-old student at Robert McQueen High School in Reno, Nevada, had some choice words when he called his congressman, Rep. Mark Amodei, to demand action on gun control.
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Robert McQueen High School is a public secondary school in Reno, Nevada, USA. It is part of the Washoe County School District.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:46 pm

WaPo
In the past, the ACLU wrote, Christiansen typically did what the school asked without complaint. For example, he had once protested a dress code that forbade girls, but not boys, from going sleeveless by wearing a shirt that read “Free the Shoulder.” When administrators told him to take the shirt off, he took it off, the ACLU said.

But as he met with his principal Wednesday, Christiansen balked upon learning that he would be suspended for swearing, which Washoe County School District has deemed an act of official “defiance/disrespect/insubordination,” according to the ACLU.

“Noah protested this extreme disciplinary action and even offered to serve detention instead,” the group wrote. But the school held firm, the Las Vegas Review-Journal wrote — suspending him Thursday and Monday (while allowing him to attend the statewide debate championship on the Friday between).

As he served his suspension, the ACLU wrote, Christiansen learned that administrators were also refusing to seat him as class secretary and treasurer because of his offense.

“It was quite sad to recognize that people think that students’ opinion don’t matter and they feel the need to retaliate against them,” Christiansen told the Review-Journal while finishing his suspension Monday.

He told much the same to the ACLU, which sent letters to Superintendent Traci Davis, principal Amy Marable and the congressman, demanding all punishments and complaints be revoked.

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Re: College students and their safe space

Post by stessier » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:47 pm

I happened to be reading a 538 article on free speech and it noted that the current Supreme Court had generally increased the right except in a few instance, one of which was students in schools. Unless he made the call during a class, though, I can't see how the school can punish him for it. I mean, I know how they can, but I can't see why it should stand. Particularly "disrespectful speech." Does the school have sports teams? You're telling me none of those teams has a kid who taunts the opponents? Administrators can be so stupid. They should have come out and said "while we disagree with how he said it, we respect his right to voice his concerns to his representatives."
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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