50 Reported Dead, 53 Injured In Shooting At Fl. Club

[Smoove_B]

Clearly more rights should be taken away so it doesn't happen again. /s

Hilarious. I have a buddy that lives across the border in PA. He can walk into a gun store with his PA drivers license and walk out with a .50 rifle. In comparison, he can not go into a liquor store and purchase a 6 pack of beer (that's illegal - only cases can be purchased) nor can he visit a retail warehouse that sells fireworks and purchase them (also illegal). On what planet does any of that make sense?

[msteelers]

Why does he need firecrackers when he can fire his gun at things?

[Rip]

Clearly more rights should be taken away so it doesn't happen again. /s

Hilarious. I have a buddy that lives across the border in PA. He can walk into a gun store with his PA drivers license and walk out with a .50 rifle. In comparison, he can not go into a liquor store and purchase a 6 pack of beer (that's illegal - only cases can be purchased) nor can he visit a retail warehouse that sells fireworks and purchase them (also illegal). On what planet does any of that make sense?

Can't buy beer in a 6-pack, hurry someone call the ACLU.

[Isgrimnur]

Why does he need firecrackers when he can fire his gun at things?

Tannerite FTW.

[coopasonic]

Why does he need firecrackers when he can fire his gun at things?

Zombies are drawn to the firecrackers, giving you time to get away, reload, repair your weapon or loot something.

[msteelers]

Zombies are drawn to the firecrackers, giving you time to get away, reload, repair your weapon or loot something.

Wait, you can't buy sky flowers? Unacceptable!

[Smoove_B]

Can't buy beer in a 6-pack, hurry someone call the ACLU.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

If you believe that allowing someone to walk into a store and purchase a .50 rifle in cash and walk out, handing over nothing but a drivers license is terrific but that same person can't purchase a six pack of beer or sparklers I don't even know what to say. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be able to purchase a .50 rifle. I'm suggesting that maybe we need to look at what's going on here.

Once again, you question the logic and immediately it's Constitution! Forefathers! Blood of Patriots! Again, here is what is coloring my perspective in NJ. The idea that anyone could walk into a store and 20 minutes later walk out with a firearm is laughable. I understand that's not the norm around the country but I'm pretty sure there's room to figure out better options for everyone.

[Isgrimnur]

Gotta love the states' rights.

[Rip]

We need a law to make people buy cases of guns not just singles or six-packs!

[Moliere]

the first hour of this podcast focuses on Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, and the political implications of the recent terrorist attack in Orlando.

Spoiler:

Guns are not the problem.

[em2nought]

Why does he need firecrackers when he can fire his gun at things?

Tannerite FTW.

That stuff is awesome, I really need to get some before more folks find out about it.

[Carpet_pissr]

It's hard to believe that so many people saw something wrong with this guy and reported it, and yet nothing was done. It shows just how hard it is to stop the lone wolf attacks.

'See something? Say something!'
Or not. Doesn't really matter.

[Combustible Lemur]

Apparently we need Tom Cruise and his crack team of imprison before crime police.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Zounds, those there are some high-falutin' words son. But if you don't know who he is, why do you give so much credence to his "counterintelligence background" in the first place?

Apologies for any confusion to your Canuckian cognition. It's not a matter of giving "so much credence"; I simply credit the author with some credence and knowledge of the Intelligence Community in which he indisputably worked (which doesn't necessitate agreeing with his politics, or everything he's ever written or, ahem, photographed). After all, the whole debacle surrounding Nidal Hasan's "workplace violence" and the (initial) denial of benefits to the poor victims' families clearly illustrates the truth of what was written regarding how far the White House was willing to go to put the kibosh on any discussions of radical Islam as a security problem.

[hepcat]

Why does he need firecrackers when he can fire his gun at things?

Tannerite FTW.

That stuff is awesome, I really need to get some before more folks find out about it.

I think you should too.

[Max Peck]

Zounds, those there are some high-falutin' words son. But if you don't know who he is, why do you give so much credence to his "counterintelligence background" in the first place?

Apologies for any confusion to your Canuckian cognition. It's not a matter of giving "so much credence"; I simply credit the author with some credence and knowledge of the Intelligence Community in which he indisputably worked (which doesn't necessitate agreeing with his politics, or everything he's ever written or, ahem, photographed). After all, the whole debacle surrounding Nidal Hasan's "workplace violence" and the (initial) denial of benefits to the poor victims' families clearly illustrates the truth of what was written regarding how far the White House was willing to go to put the kibosh on any discussions of radical Islam as a security problem.

Ah, OK, so it's a straight-up appeal to authority. Got it. And that's "Canuckistani cognition" btw.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Zounds, those there are some high-falutin' words son. But if you don't know who he is, why do you give so much credence to his "counterintelligence background" in the first place?

Apologies for any confusion to your Canuckian cognition. It's not a matter of giving "so much credence"; I simply credit the author with some credence and knowledge of the Intelligence Community in which he indisputably worked (which doesn't necessitate agreeing with his politics, or everything he's ever written or, ahem, photographed). After all, the whole debacle surrounding Nidal Hasan's "workplace violence" and the (initial) denial of benefits to the poor victims' families clearly illustrates the truth of what was written regarding how far the White House was willing to go to put the kibosh on any discussions of radical Islam as a security problem.

Ah, OK, so it's a straight-up appeal to authority. Got it. And that's "Canuckistani cognition" btw.

If you say so; I defer to your pedantry.

[AWS260]

Scalzi on thoughts and prayers...

Thoughts and prayers.

[Max Peck]

Zounds, those there are some high-falutin' words son. But if you don't know who he is, why do you give so much credence to his "counterintelligence background" in the first place?

Apologies for any confusion to your Canuckian cognition. It's not a matter of giving "so much credence"; I simply credit the author with some credence and knowledge of the Intelligence Community in which he indisputably worked (which doesn't necessitate agreeing with his politics, or everything he's ever written or, ahem, photographed). After all, the whole debacle surrounding Nidal Hasan's "workplace violence" and the (initial) denial of benefits to the poor victims' families clearly illustrates the truth of what was written regarding how far the White House was willing to go to put the kibosh on any discussions of radical Islam as a security problem.

Ah, OK, so it's a straight-up appeal to authority. Got it. And that's "Canuckistani cognition" btw.

If you say so; I defer to your pedantry.

Does knowing the actual meaning of buzz words like ad hominen make me a pedant, or just not completely clueless?

[Anonymous Bosch]

Zounds, those there are some high-falutin' words son. But if you don't know who he is, why do you give so much credence to his "counterintelligence background" in the first place?

Apologies for any confusion to your Canuckian cognition. It's not a matter of giving "so much credence"; I simply credit the author with some credence and knowledge of the Intelligence Community in which he indisputably worked (which doesn't necessitate agreeing with his politics, or everything he's ever written or, ahem, photographed). After all, the whole debacle surrounding Nidal Hasan's "workplace violence" and the (initial) denial of benefits to the poor victims' families clearly illustrates the truth of what was written regarding how far the White House was willing to go to put the kibosh on any discussions of radical Islam as a security problem.

Ah, OK, so it's a straight-up appeal to authority. Got it. And that's "Canuckistani cognition" btw.

If you say so; I defer to your pedantry.

Does knowing the actual meaning of buzz words like ad hominen make me a pedant, or just not completely clueless?

Well, you are clueless as to the 'appeal to authority' (but I lacked the time to get into it yesterday); but it was more of a flippant response to "Canuckistani cognition".

[Max Peck]

Zounds, those there are some high-falutin' words son. But if you don't know who he is, why do you give so much credence to his "counterintelligence background" in the first place?

Apologies for any confusion to your Canuckian cognition. It's not a matter of giving "so much credence"; I simply credit the author with some credence and knowledge of the Intelligence Community in which he indisputably worked (which doesn't necessitate agreeing with his politics, or everything he's ever written or, ahem, photographed). After all, the whole debacle surrounding Nidal Hasan's "workplace violence" and the (initial) denial of benefits to the poor victims' families clearly illustrates the truth of what was written regarding how far the White House was willing to go to put the kibosh on any discussions of radical Islam as a security problem.

Ah, OK, so it's a straight-up appeal to authority. Got it. And that's "Canuckistani cognition" btw.

If you say so; I defer to your pedantry.

Does knowing the actual meaning of buzz words like ad hominen make me a pedant, or just not completely clueless?

Well, you are clueless as to the 'appeal to authority' (but I lacked the time to get into it yesterday); but it was more of a flippant response to "Canuckistani cognition".

I get the impression that one of us is enjoying this more than the other. But if you feel the need to get your screed on, fill yer boots me son (as we like to say in Soviet Canuckistan). I'm always up for a learning experience.

[Unagi]

the first hour of this podcast focuses on Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, and the political implications of the recent terrorist attack in Orlando.

Spoiler:

Guns are not the problem.

Thanks for sharing that.

I know it doesn't help here for me to say it, but I have great admiration for Sam Harris, how he thinks, and articulates it.

[Kasey Chang]

Wonkette has a series of coverage on how Anderson Cooper is calling out Pam Bondi (Florida AG) on her position on gay marriage and whether her current efforts are crocodile tears. Let's just say Bondi is sweating hard and resorting to reframe a LIVE interview on CNN as some sort of "misconstruing" her message.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Well, you are clueless as to the 'appeal to authority' (but I lacked the time to get into it yesterday); but it was more of a flippant response to "Canuckistani cognition".

I get the impression that one of us is enjoying this more than the other. But if you feel the need to get your screed on, fill yer boots me son (as we like to say in Soviet Canuckistan). I'm always up for a learning experience.

A fallacious appeal to authority is defined as follows:

Description of Appeal to Authority

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:

1. Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
2. Person A makes claim C about subject S.
3. Therefore, C is true.

This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious.

Person A = John Schindler, author of the relevant op-ed, an authority on
Subject S = Work within the Intelligence Community
Claim C = The White House put the kibosh on discussions of radical Islam as a security problem, including the Intelligence Community

Person A did work within the Intelligence Communtiy, so regardless of his politics or photographic choices, he's a legitimate authority on Subject S, and qualified to reliably make Claim C. Considering Schindler's occupation along with the debacle of Nidal Hasan's alleged "workplace violence" lends some credence to the points raised in his op-ed regarding the White House quashing discussions of radical Islam as a security problem within the Intelligence Community. And FWIW, former FBI Assistant Director James Kallstrom also echoes much of what was stated in Schindler's op-ed:

(CNSNews.com) -- Former FBI Assistant Director James Kallstrom, who headed the FBI’s New York City office, said on The Kelly File on Thursday that FBI agents are “petrified” of being fired apparently because of White House orders that say the bureau cannot investigate “anything to do with Muslims” in the traditional way the bureau would pursue criminals or potential criminals and terrorists.

Kallstrom also stressed that we need to “get this wet blanket of political correctness off the backs of law enforcement, off the backs of the FBI,” to better protect U.S. citizens.

When asked about apparent problems with the FBI, Kallstrom said, “The rules of engagement, what the Bureau is being told what they can and what they can’t do. They can’t go sniffing around -- anything to do with Muslims.”

“They can’t go to mosques, they can’t do things that they normally do,” he said. “I’m not talking things that are off the charts, I’m talking about the things that would normally be done.”

“But the orders have come down from the White House,” said Kallstrom. “The same people that took all the [radical Islam] language out of the training documents and can’t be used in any memoranda. Those are the same people.”

Now, I honestly don't know anything about Kallstrom's politics, if he has a blog, or if he took any untoward selfies, but even if so, that doesn't logically equate to "everything he says must be disregarded as false."

[RunningMn9]

There's that "political correctness" trigger word again...

[killbot737]

If we substituted the term "Islamic Radical" with "Misguided religious fanatic" do y'all think that might solve anything?

[Anonymous Bosch]

If we substituted the term "Islamic Radical" with "Misguided religious fanatic" do y'all think that might solve anything?

If Kallstrom is to be believed, I doubt it. He gives the impression that FBI agents are more concerned with their specific rules of engagement and available investigative procedures when dealing with suspects the White House has deemed unpalatable, than the particular verbiage used to describe them. Also, eschewing the T-word can be detrimental to victims' families (e.g. Nidal Hasan's "workplace violence" at Fort Hood).

[Canuck]

Just how is it detrimental? I'm honestly curious.

[malchior]

If we substituted the term "Islamic Radical" with "Misguided religious fanatic" do y'all think that might solve anything?

If Kallstrom is to be believed, I doubt it. He gives the impression that FBI agents are more concerned with their specific rules of engagement and available investigative procedures when dealing with suspects the White House has deemed unpalatable, than the particular verbiage used to describe them. Also, eschewing the T-word can be detrimental to victims' families (e.g. Nidal Hasan's "workplace violence" at Fort Hood).

Kallstrom retired something like 20 years ago. While I'm sure he has some contact...it seems a bit of a reach that he can make wide claims to the effect of policy on the current organization reliably.

[RunningMn9]

We're getting very close to the point where I automatically disregard everything a person says, as soon as they mention "political correctness".

[Daehawk]

Im no fan of Sarah Palin but in a response she posted online to Obama the girl is whip smart...

OBAMA IS A SPECIAL KIND OF STUPID

Enough is enough, Mr. President. There's no "due respect" due you after pulling this stunt.

Exploiting a sick, evil, ideological-driven attack on Americans to further your twisted anti-Second Amendment mission is disgusting. Today you're demanding an "explanation" from law abiding gun owners, but not demanding the same from followers of Islam, the religion behind this terror?

If the demented Orlando terrorist doesn't represent all Islamic followers, then why do you insinuate he represents all gun owners?

And why, after any shooting, do you always want to take away firearms from the innocent people who didn't do it?

Forget your asinine gun control, do your job and engage in Islamic terrorist control.

Yes, it's a special kind of stupid to demand we explain ourselves. But if you really want them, get ready for our explanations. Here's mine:
…/631166-hold-president-obama-visit-to-or…/…

- Sarah Palin

Some random poster online simply said ..."Everytime some maniac shoots someone the Democrats want to take citizens guns away"

[Anonymous Bosch]

Just how is it detrimental? I'm honestly curious.

A coalition of 160 victims and family members of the deadly rampage at Fort Hood in 2009 sees similarities in the Obama administration’s reluctance to label the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Libya as a terrorist act and wants government officials to belatedly deem the assault in Texas as terrorism as they now have done with Benghazi.

“To have it not be called terrorism is a slap in the face,” said Shawn Manning, who was facing his third deployment the day authorities say Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Hasan shot him six times.

The assault on the army post in Killeen, Texas, was the most lethal terrorist attack on U.S. soil since 9/11, leaving 13 dead, more than 30 wounded by gunshots and dozens more injured. Survivors, many who suffered from multiple bullet wounds, have spent the past three years trying to rehabilitate their bodies and rebuild their lives. Maj. Hasan, 42, is awaiting trial and faces the death penalty if convicted.

For the service members who died and those who were wounded, the terrorism distinction would mean that the military considered that their injuries took place in a combat zone, making them eligible for Purple Heart medals and, the victims say, access to medical care and benefits similar to what soldiers wounded in Iraq or Afghanistan receive.

Civilian victims, such as Kimberly Munley, the civilian police officer employed by the Army who shot Maj. Hasan four times and is credited with bringing him down and helping prevent a bigger massacre, aren’t eligible for Purple Hearts. But Mrs. Munley said the designation would recognize the severity of the attack and provide her and others with much-needed closure.

“To be honest with you, it would just help everyone, including me, start to be able to have closure and start to heal,” she said. “To this day, mentally and emotionally, I don’t think any of us have started to heal.”

Mrs. Munley was wounded in both legs and her wrist during the close-range gunfight and her injuries prevented her from remaining in the police forces’ Special Reaction Team. She starts a new job as a researcher for government background checks Nov. 5, the third anniversary of the attack at Fort Hood.

Calling the attack as terrorism would show “that our sacrifice meant something that day — that it wasn’t just a random act of violence,” Mr. Manning said. “We were fighting a domestic enemy. It would mean that the Army or the government finally recognized that what we went through was important. Everybody who was there that day was headed out for deployment.”

The National Defense Authorization Act in 2015 did broaden criteria for awarding the Purple Heart and its civilian-equivalent which helped somewhat, though many are still faced with a protracted legal battle:

Nearly seven years after an Army major’s shooting rampage left 13 dead and dozens wounded at Fort Hood, Texas, lawyers for about 130 of the victims and family members have asked a federal judge to lift a stay in their civil case against the service and other defendants.

While many of those killed or injured received Purple Heart Medals (and the financial benefits that accompany those awards) in 2015, Reed Rubinstein, one of the lawyers on the case, said the Army and other defendants – including the FBI – have yet to pay in full the debt owed to the victims.

“Nothing, nothing is going to happen on this case, if the government has its way, until well into 2017,” said Rubinstein, who first filed the lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia in November 2012. “Long after the people involved are gone, and presumably … long after everybody will have forgotten about Fort Hood.”

The case had been on ice as the Army pursued the civil trial of Maj. Nidal Hasan, who was sentenced to death in August 2013. Defendants initially told the court that “post-conviction proceedings” would take until mid-2014, according to the complaint. The judge agreed to stay the case, but delays continued; the new estimate for full completion of the court-martial now sits at early 2017.

[RunningMn9]

Im no fan of Sarah Palin but in a response she posted online to Obama the girl is whip smart.

On the contrary, she's a complete imbecile.

[msteelers]

We're getting very close to the point where I automatically disregard everything a person says, as soon as they mention "political correctness".

I've been there for a couple of years now.

[Anonymous Bosch]

If we substituted the term "Islamic Radical" with "Misguided religious fanatic" do y'all think that might solve anything?

BTW, I neglected to mention this earlier, but I think Maajid Nawaz, a Muslim peace activist and liberal, makes the strongest argument for calling radical Islam what it is. I'd strongly encourage everyone -- particularly if you think differentiating radical Islamism is wrong -- to watch his brief video on what he calls the Voldemort effect.

"These people that I refer to as the subsection of the left I refer to as the regressive left have good intentions. I recognize that. I also recognize that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and I think it’s important to understand that I am a Muslim. I’m born and raised a Muslim and every single grievance that my fellow well-intentioned liberals are worried about that a Muslim may have, I have experienced. They worry about racism. I’ve had Neo-Nazis come at me with hammers and knives and machetes. I’ve had to watch friends stabbed before my eyes — friends had hammers put to their heads. I’ve seen all of this growing up. I’ve witnessed this and I’ve experienced it. They’re worried about the war on terror. Well I’ve been a victim of the war on terror. I’ve witnessed torture in an Egyptian jail. I’ve been interned without charge and eventually I’ve been a prisoner of conscience adopted by Amnesty International. They’re worried about profiling at airports. I’ve had my DNA taken from me forcibly without my consent. I’ve had my right to silence taken from me under British war and terror laws. Everything they’re worried about, I’ve had happen to me. And I say this therefore from a place that is concerned about these civil liberties issues for Muslims because I’ve suffered them myself.

And when I say to these well-intentioned regressive leftists is that you’re good intentions in not having this conversation, not differentiating Islamism, Islamist extremism, the ideology briefly summarized as the desire to enforce a version of Islam over society — your intentions in not isolating Islamist extremism from the religion of Islam are making the problem worse, not better."

[Skinypupy]

Im no fan of Sarah Palin but in a response she posted online to Obama the girl is whip smart...

notsureifserious.jpg

[RunningMn9]

I'm also adding anyone that uses the term "leftist" to the trashbin.

[tgb]

Im no fan of Sarah Palin but in a response she posted online to Obama the girl is whip smart.

On the contrary, she's a complete imbecile.

No way did she write that. It's too coherent.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Anonymous Bosch]

I'm also adding anyone that uses the term "leftist" to the trashbin.

Lighten up, Francis. It tends to be a less pejorative term in Europe, where he resides:

Left-wing, leftist

General descriptive terms for any of several otherwise quite varied political ideologies (socialism, communism, social democracy, welfare statism, contemporary American liberalism, some versions of anarchism, etc.) that join in denouncing the extent of economic and social inequality in the present order of society and advocate the adoption of vigorous public policies to reduce or eliminate these inequalities, usually through some combination of the following:

• Reduction or elimination of legal protections for private property rights
• Greater regulation (or complete expropriation) of private economic activity
• Stringent limitations on the right to inherit wealth
• Higher tax burdens on the rich and the middle-class, and/or the provision of more tax-supported government services and money payments to the poor.

In America, the term has a somewhat more derogatory flavor than in European usage.

[gilraen]

Im no fan of Sarah Palin but in a response she posted online to Obama the girl is whip smart.

On the contrary, she's a complete imbecile.

No way did she write that. It's too coherent.

Agreed. There are too many big words in there that she wouldn't in a million years know how to use in a sentence.

Some random poster online simply said ..."Everytime some maniac shoots someone the Democrats want to take citizens guns away"

Just because it's the Pavlovian response by right wingnuts to the words "gun control" ("Democrats want to abolish the 2nd Amendment!") doesn't make it any less of a lie. As in, it has never, ever, fucking NEVER HAPPENED.

My opinion, personally - yeah, 2nd Amendment is outdated, antiquated and has no place in a civilized society. But that's probably because I wasn't born in the U.S. (and these days I'm perfectly happy realizing that I remain much more European than I thought).