Octopus Overlords

Sepiche wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:41 am I follow British politics fairly closely, and it's still a bit of a mystery to me how Jeremy Corbyn managed to get to the head of Labour and stay there for so long given his wild views on so many topics.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:55 am

Sepiche wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:41 am I follow British politics fairly closely, and it's still a bit of a mystery to me how Jeremy Corbyn managed to get to the head of Labour and stay there for so long given his wild views on so many topics.

I've seen some stuff indicating that Labour has some weird leadership electoral procedures, which basically provide a mechanism by which a small-ish group of committed activists was able to get Corbyn elected in a divided field.

In some ways I think it's a similar answer to how Trump got elected despite his wild views on so many topics - he has a strong committed base, and there were weird electoral rules that advantage a committed minority.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:55 am

Sepiche wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:41 am I follow British politics fairly closely, and it's still a bit of a mystery to me how Jeremy Corbyn managed to get to the head of Labour and stay there for so long given his wild views on so many topics.

I've seen some stuff indicating that Labour has some weird leadership electoral procedures, which basically provide a mechanism by which a small-ish group of committed activists was able to get Corbyn elected in a divided field.

In some ways I think it's a similar answer to how Trump got elected despite his wild views on so many topics - he has a strong committed base, and there were weird electoral rules that advantage a committed minority.

Tick bloody tock. Britain has entered the last 100 days before the nation is set to abandon the European Union. But in the House of Commons on Wednesday, lawmakers spent the afternoon accusing each other of endless dithering.

They’re right. If Brexit feels interminable, it is because it is.

After yanking a vote on her Brexit deal last week, Prime Minister Theresa May said Parliament won’t get a chance to vote until after the Christmas holidays, during the third week of January. An exact date has not been set.

Jeremy Corbyn, the opposition Labour Party leader, got to his feet Wednesday to charge May with “recklessly running down the clock” in a effort to rob the country of any real alternative to her unloved Brexit deal. “The reality is the prime minister is stalling for time,” Corbyn said.

Alongside her well-known traits of grit, stubbornness and secrecy, May’s future biographers may add brinkmanship.

Whether by cunning or blunder, she is taking Brexit to the wire — which her admirers and critics say might have been her plan all along.
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Over the holidays, May wants her fellow Tories to have a good long think about the cost of leaving the E.U. with no deal, a scary scenario that envisions economic chaos and canceled European vacations.

May’s cabinet on Tuesday activated a multibillion-dollar emergency plan to prepare for a no-deal exit, including sending letters to 140,000 British companies updating them on what they should do now, beyond pray.

Jeremy Corbyn is facing a storm of criticism from Labour activists and MPs after suggesting he would press ahead with Brexit if the party won a snap general election.

In a sign that he is losing backing among overwhelmingly pro-remain Labour supporters, Corbyn was also accused of betraying the party membership by appearing reluctant to back the idea of supporting remain in a second referendum.

MPs will vote on Theresa May's Brexit deal on Tuesday, 15 January, government sources have confirmed.
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Meanwhile, more than 200 MPs have signed a letter to Theresa May, urging her to rule out a no-deal Brexit.

It comes as a major exercise involving more than 100 lorries is being carried out in Kent to test out how to manage traffic queues near the Channel ports in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:17 pm Brexit vote fails by a huge margin; next steps uncertain.

Just a reminder that we're not the only western democracy fucking itself over.

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:26 pm It seems like there's an awful lot of idiots in the U.K. who have convinced themselves that they should get all the benefits of being a member of the EU, but without any of the costs. I really hope the EU ruling committee sticks to their guns and refuses to let them get away with that crap.

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:53 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:26 pm It seems like there's an awful lot of idiots in the U.K. who have convinced themselves that they should get all the benefits of being a member of the EU, but without any of the costs. I really hope the EU ruling committee sticks to their guns and refuses to let them get away with that crap.

I think there is a disconnect between the benefits that come from membership and the membership itself. When someone enjoys benefits, they tend to start taking them for granted. Eventually they forget why the benefits exist in the first place.

I'm not contradicting you, I'm agreeing with you, I just think there is a disconnect, rather than a rationalization.

Daveman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:07 pm If I understand things correctly, the EU has said the UK could rescind their request to leave and everything would continue as is. How would this work? A letter from the Prime Minister? Subject to Parliamentary vote?

Vorret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:56 pm I'm sure the UK thought they'd have more bargaining power but they hit one hell of a wall. Entertaining train wreck for sure.

A day after the crushing defeat of Prime Minister Theresa May’s Brexit plan, members of Parliament took up a no-confidence motion, insulting and disparaging her for hours and hours on Wednesday.

Yet she survived, by a vote of 325 to 306.
...
Although a third of May’s Conservative Party members voted against her 585-page withdrawal agreement, negotiated with European leaders over two years, and even though her party challenged her leadership in a confidence vote just last month, Conservatives supported her Wednesday. Besides not having an obvious leader waiting in the wings, the Tories do not want a general election against the opposition Labour Party, led by Jeremy Corbyn, who called for the no-confidence vote.

She will have until Monday to return to Parliament and present her Plan B.

In the United Kingdom, confidence motions are a means of testing the support of the government (executive) in a legislative body, and for the legislature to remove the government from office. A confidence motion may take the form of either a vote of confidence, usually put forward by the government, or a vote of no confidence (or censure motion[1]), usually proposed by the opposition. When such a motion is put to a vote in the legislature, if a vote of confidence is defeated, or a vote of no confidence is passed, then the incumbent government must resign, or call a general election. At least 434 votes or more than two thirds of votes of MPs are required for such a motion to pass in the House of Commons[2].

Daveman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:14 pm As I asked a few posts ago, the EU did say the U.K. could rescind the whole thing but I don't know how that could come about. Would it require another referendum, a vote in parliament, or just the PM saying "never mind"?

Parliament is inching toward a plan to delay Brexit as a way of preventing a chaotic no-deal departure.
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In Brussels, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, has been talking about Ireland -- amid controversy over remarks on Tuesday from a European Commission spokesperson that there will be a hard border on the island if the U.K. leaves the bloc without a deal.

While he used his speech to say the border would remain the U.K.’s responsibility, he didn’t conceal the problem. He underlined the importance of having checks at all of the EU’s external frontiers -- which the Irish border will become -- in order to guard against the infiltration into the bloc’s single market of sub-standard goods or unsafe food. That’s the Irish government’s dilemma in a nutshell.

The so-called backstop, enshrined in the Brexit deal, is intended to prevent controls at the Irish border unless or until a better arrangement is found, and Barnier showed no sign that the EU is willing to remove it to placate British lawmakers. He fell back on his well-rehearsed argument that the EU doesn’t ever want to use it.
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An attempt by pro-Brexit MPs to deny time to the Cooper-Boles bill, which would delay Britain’s departure (see 11.30 a.m.) has failed. The government didn’t move the business motion that the euro-skeptics were trying to amend, meaning the amendment didn’t get voted on.
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German Economy Minister Peter Altmaier confirms in public what officials have said in private: Germany would be comfortable with an extension of the exit day deadline.

“If the U.K. would need more time to clarify its position, I would not mind,” Altmaier told a panel in Davos.

He’s taken a slightly softer line than some other countries, which have argued that an extension would only be acceptable if there’s a clear new plan on the table.
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France would be willing to consider an extension to exit day but only if there’s a clear change in policy that has the backing of a majority in the U.K. Parliament.
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May faced repeated questions in the Commons over whether she should extend Article 50 and delay Brexit beyond March. She’s still against the idea, but her answers didn’t close the door on it.

The European Union has a message for British Prime Minister Theresa May as she plots a path out of the Brexit impasse: a backup plan for the Irish border can be tweaked but will have to be included in any divorce deal.
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Ahead of Tuesday’s votes in the British parliament on a way forward, MPs in May’s party are pushing for her to demand the European Union drop the backstop and replace it with something else.

Ireland said the backstop was staying and the European Commission repeated on Monday that the withdrawal agreement text, and its backstop component, is not open for renegotiation.
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The backstop is a type of insurance policy aimed at preventing a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and the British province of Northern Ireland if no other solutions can be agreed. It is the most contentious part of May’s deal.
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Possible amendments floated by EU officials range from further public assurances that the backstop would probably never be used or only for a brief period to amending the text which accompanies the treaty and which lays out expectations for the trading relationship that will come in after the transition.

The EU has explicitly said if Britain were to stay in a customs union indefinitely, as the opposition Labour Party favours, that could leave the backstop redundant.
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However, a looming no-deal Brexit, in which the EU insists Ireland cannot leave an open door to British goods, has highlighted the difficulty Ireland will face if the backstop issue scuppers an agreement.

Facing a series of crucial votes in Parliament, Prime Minister Theresa May raised the stakes on Tuesday by promising to reopen Britain’s withdrawal agreement with the European Union, putting her on a direct collision course with the bloc.

Mrs. May’s move came at a critical time, with Parliament voting Tuesday evening on a series of amendments to her Brexit plan, which earlier this month suffered one of the greatest defeats in modern British history. Before the night is out, Parliament could reverse decades of protocol and practice and assert control over policymaking that has been dominated by the governing party and its prime minister.

Mrs. May told Parliament that she would seek “significant and legally binding” changes in the 585-page text, painstakingly negotiated over more than two years, to secure changes in the so-called Irish backstop plan that aims to ensure that goods cross the Irish frontier without any customs checks.

Britain and the European Union refused to budge an inch Thursday toward any compromise over Brexit, but at least they are on speaking terms again about their impending divorce.

They agreed to further negotiations in the next few weeks, although that means any deal will come perilously close to the scheduled deadline of March 29. That risks a chaotic departure for Britain that could be costly to both sides — both to businesses and ordinary people.

“A no-deal is for us not an option. It is a disaster on both sides of the Channel,” said Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament’s chief Brexit official.

Looking at the ever-tighter deadline, British Prime Minister Theresa May said after talks at EU headquarters in Brussels, “it’s not going to be easy.”

But she vowed: “I am going to deliver Brexit. I am going to deliver it on time.”

May was able to clear the air after EU Council President Donald Tusk exacerbated the frosty climate Wednesday by wondering aloud what “special place in hell” might be reserved for those who backed Brexit with no idea of how to deliver it.

May said she had “raised with President Tusk the language that he used,” saying his words “caused widespread dismay” in Britain.

British Prime Minister Theresa May, faced with the near-impossible task of renegotiating part of her Brexit deal with the European Union before the rapidly approaching Brexit deadline, has resorted to the time-honored strategy of stalling for time.

“Having secured an agreement with the European Union for further talks, we now need some time to complete that process,” May said in a speech to Parliament on Tuesday. “When we achieve the progress we need, we will bring forward another meaningful vote.”
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When that next “meaningful vote” in Parliament will actually take place, though, is still unclear. But it’s getting precipitously close to the March 29, 2019, deadline, the date when the UK will leave the EU, with or without an agreement in place.

“The talks are at a crucial stage,” May told Parliament on Tuesday. “We now all need to hold our nerve to get the changes this House requires and deliver Brexit on time.”

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:54 pm This is like watching a train barrelling towards another train, and not taking any of the clearly marked off ramps. In sloooooow motion.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:48 am

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:54 pm This is like watching a train barrelling towards another train, and not taking any of the clearly marked off ramps. In sloooooow motion.

Hey, the people voted for a head-on collision. Who are we to question the will of the people?