Re: Brexit
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:05 pm
I think what malchior is really saying at the end of the day is that this whole thing is a shitshow, which is pretty undeniable.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
http://www.octopusoverlords.com/forum/
The US is currently a shit show. Does that mean your democracy is "totally broken"? Do you understand "totally broken" to mean "shit show" in that context?
OkayGreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:39 pm
But is it "totally broken"?
You know the referendum was non-binding, right? Like, none of this has to happen. There is no legal requirement for this to go forward. It could end today. Full stop. Well, however long it takes to tell the EU "we were just kidding".
Separately, a country's population should absolutely have the final word on the fate of the country. Without citizens, there is no country. It's not the other way around.
Yes - it was significantly stupid. Their system had all kinds of problems before that vote that led to that referendum. In fact, one big problem is their system has no escape mechanism that prevents radical change such as this vote. The US at least has that though those mechanisms have been abused. In a very real sense, the British system has very limited protection from populism. If one wanted to get to some root causes of this shit show there is one right there.
So you did know? Then what's broken? The same thing that's broken with Congress?
Substitute 'sick' for 'broken' or whatever makes the point sink in for you. The point is the way much of the West is deciding its future is not working. And that it is 'working as intended' is frankly very debatable from many viewpoints. That multiple systems 'working as intended' are systemically leading to outcomes likely terrible to catastrophic for actual people's lives are not something to just shrug at. It isn't an 'extreme opinion' -- it is a cold hard reality that is coming for all of us.
Which suggest that what's broken is the populace.
You’re thinking of Iceland.El Guapo wrote:I would argue that the system is Bjorked.
I did not. I was surprised at that.So you did know?
I think a system that let's an act of stupidity dissolve a country (intentionally hyperbolic, I don't think Brexit will dissolve the UK) is broken, you think it's working as intended. I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this.Brexit is moronic. Let's not conflate an act of stupidity with the system of governance being "totally broken".
No system can prevent people from making bad decisions. During the Peloponnesian War the Athenians executed a group of admirals that had just won a significant naval victory because they had abandoned crewmen from ships that had been sunk due to a storm that had arisen after the battle. You might think that a mitigating circumstance but the democratic assembly thought otherwise and executed 6 of the 8 admirals that had won the victory. Two years later the Spartans destroyed the Athenian fleet in battle. With no fleet, Athens was starved out and lost the war. One could argue that the loss of six successful and experienced admirals might have contributed to that defeat. Athenian democracy worked as it had been designed but it could not prevent the people from making a foolish decision.malchior wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:48 pmSubstitute 'sick' for 'broken' or whatever makes the point sink in for you. The point is the way much of the West is deciding its future is not working. And that it is 'working as intended' is frankly very debatable from many viewpoints. That multiple systems 'working as intended' are systemically leading to outcomes likely terrible to catastrophic for actual people's lives are not something to just shrug at. It isn't an 'extreme opinion' -- it is a cold hard reality that is coming for all of us.
In another nail-biting vote in the U.K.'s Parliament, lawmakers voted by a majority of just one to force Prime Minister Theresa May to seek an extension to the Brexit process and avoid a no-deal departure.
Members of Parliament (MPs) voted for the draft legislation on Wednesday evening to prevent a shock no-deal exit on April 12 (the date of a new deadline granted by the EU) by 313 votes to 312. The bill will need to be approved by the upper house of parliament, the House of Lords, to become law.
Despite last night's vote in favor of a delay to Brexit, it's far from certain that the EU will grant the U.K. an extension when European leaders meet next Wednesday, April 10, at an emergency summit dedicated to Brexit.
The U.K. was originally meant to leave the EU on March 29 but granted more time by the EU. Ahead of the U.K. Parliament's vote last night, the European Commission President Jean-Claude reiterated that April 12 was the final date for the approval of the Brexit deal and that no short extension would be possible.
The Telegraph wrote:British Transport Police (BTP) said the two obstructions occurred on the railway near Yaxley, Cambridgeshire on March 21 and Netherfield in Nottinghamshire on March 27.
Police said staff at Network Rail identified the devices, which were "intended to cause disruption" to train services, and the saboteurs had "put their life at risk" to plant the obstructions.
A note reportedly attached to the device read: "Government betrayal. Leave means leave. We will bring this country to its knees if we don't leave."
Alefroth wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:50 pmI did not. I was surprised at that.So you did know?
I think a system that let's an act of stupidity dissolve a country (intentionally hyperbolic, I don't think Brexit will dissolve the UK) is broken, you think it's working as intended. I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this.Brexit is moronic. Let's not conflate an act of stupidity with the system of governance being "totally broken".
Somebody better check on Jussie's alibi for this one.malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:33 am No one can know how this is going to play out now - but the histrionics are already starting to ratchet up.
Exhibit 2: Attempted rail sabotage linked to Brexit.
The Telegraph wrote:British Transport Police (BTP) said the two obstructions occurred on the railway near Yaxley, Cambridgeshire on March 21 and Netherfield in Nottinghamshire on March 27.
Police said staff at Network Rail identified the devices, which were "intended to cause disruption" to train services, and the saboteurs had "put their life at risk" to plant the obstructions.
A note reportedly attached to the device read: "Government betrayal. Leave means leave. We will bring this country to its knees if we don't leave."
British Prime Minister Theresa May said Friday that her nation ... will likely hold elections next month for an E.U. legislature that she is desperate to quit.
...
“It is in the interests of neither the United Kingdom as a departing member state, nor the European Union as a whole, that the United Kingdom holds elections to the European Parliament,” May wrote Friday in a letter to European Council President Donald Tusk, announcing her grudging decision to prepare for the elections anyway.
...
Now she has proposed a delay until June 30. That’s two days before the new European Parliament will sit for the first time, which would render the entire election a meaningless exercise. She said that if Britain manages to ratify a divorce deal before late May, she would seek to depart from the bloc more quickly and skip the vote.
But policymakers in London and the rest of Europe expect that Britain will end up with a much longer extension after E.U. leaders gather on Wednesday to decide what to do. Tusk has proposed a year-long “flextension” that could end early if British leaders settle on a divorce approach in the meantime, according to diplomats familiar with the discussions.
The UK had such great commercials which they showed before films at the cinema. I wonder if they're having fun with BREXIT?
I don't get it.em2nought wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:46 pmSomebody better check on Jussie's alibi for this one.malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:33 am No one can know how this is going to play out now - but the histrionics are already starting to ratchet up.
Exhibit 2: Attempted rail sabotage linked to Brexit.
The Telegraph wrote:British Transport Police (BTP) said the two obstructions occurred on the railway near Yaxley, Cambridgeshire on March 21 and Netherfield in Nottinghamshire on March 27.
Police said staff at Network Rail identified the devices, which were "intended to cause disruption" to train services, and the saboteurs had "put their life at risk" to plant the obstructions.
A note reportedly attached to the device read: "Government betrayal. Leave means leave. We will bring this country to its knees if we don't leave."
Another act designed to make a "group" of people look bad is what I was inferring.Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:27 pmI don't get it.em2nought wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:46 pmSomebody better check on Jussie's alibi for this one.malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:33 am No one can know how this is going to play out now - but the histrionics are already starting to ratchet up.
Exhibit 2: Attempted rail sabotage linked to Brexit.
The Telegraph wrote:British Transport Police (BTP) said the two obstructions occurred on the railway near Yaxley, Cambridgeshire on March 21 and Netherfield in Nottinghamshire on March 27.
Police said staff at Network Rail identified the devices, which were "intended to cause disruption" to train services, and the saboteurs had "put their life at risk" to plant the obstructions.
A note reportedly attached to the device read: "Government betrayal. Leave means leave. We will bring this country to its knees if we don't leave."
A bill implementing the Brexit deal will be introduced in the first week of June, the government has confirmed.
Downing Street said this was "imperative" if the UK was to leave the EU before MPs' summer recess.
The government also said talks with Labour would continue on Wednesday in an attempt to agree a way through the Brexit impasse.
Brexit talks between Britain’s two main political parties collapsed in a heap of finger-pointing Friday, with opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn saying the “weakness and instability” of Prime Minister Theresa May’s government had damaged negotiations.
With her own Conservative Party lawmakers openly demanding a timetable for her departure, not a day goes by without Britain’s political class guessing when May will leave office. Will it be next month? Or July? Or October?
May has promised to offer a date soon.
...
May said this week she will seek an unprecedented fourth vote on her withdrawal treaty — you read that number right — in early June. The first three attempts ended in failure.
Why don't they ask for another exit vote? It's pretty clear that Britons didn't know what they were getting into. Hold another vote.Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 1:23 pm WaPo
Brexit talks between Britain’s two main political parties collapsed in a heap of finger-pointing Friday, with opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn saying the “weakness and instability” of Prime Minister Theresa May’s government had damaged negotiations.
With her own Conservative Party lawmakers openly demanding a timetable for her departure, not a day goes by without Britain’s political class guessing when May will leave office. Will it be next month? Or July? Or October?
May has promised to offer a date soon.
...
May said this week she will seek an unprecedented fourth vote on her withdrawal treaty — you read that number right — in early June. The first three attempts ended in failure.
British Steel has been placed in compulsory liquidation, putting 5,000 jobs at risk and endangering 20,000 in the supply chain.
The move follows a breakdown in rescue talks between the government and the company's owner, Greybull.
The Government's Official Receiver has taken control of the company as part of the liquidation process.
The search for a buyer for British Steel has already begun. In the meantime, it will trade normally.
The Official Receiver said British Steel Ltd had been wound up in the High Court and the immediate priority was to continue safe operation of the site.
The company was transferred to the Official Receiver because British Steel, its shareholders and the government were not able to, or would not, support the business. That meant the company did not have to funds to pay for an administration.
...
British Steel's more recent troubles have been linked to a slump in orders from European customers due to uncertainty over the Brexit process.
It has has also struggled with the weakness of the pound since the EU referendum in June 2016 and the escalating US-China trade war.
...
Labour's shadow business secretary, Rebecca Long Bailey, called for the company to be nationalised.
She said: "The government must act quickly to save this strategically important industry and the livelihoods and communities of those who work in it, by bringing British Steel into public ownership.''
Prime Minister Theresa May has shelved plans to publish her Brexit legislation this week after senior members of her Cabinet withdrew their support for her plans.
The prime minister had planned to publish the Withdrawal Agreement Bill on Friday ahead of a vote on it at the start of June but will now seek to rewrite it.
A spokesman for May on Thursday said she was "listening to the concerns of colleagues" over the bill and "would have further discussions today."
...
The leader of the House of Commons, Andrea Leadsom, resigned on Wednesday evening in protest over the contents of the bill.
It is my understanding that the conservatives (not the UK's version of the Tea Party), as part of their campaigning, promised to hold a vote. When they were voted in, they were pressured to fulfill their campaign promise, which they moronically did. And here we are.