Fundraising for 2019/2020: 12 Months Renewed - We are good until October 2020. Paypal Donation Link Here

Brexit

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:08 pm

Look at the progress that we've made as a civilization in the past three centuries. It's not always been a continuous upward swing, as you can tell when they make documentaries calling it The Century of Warfare. But things continue to get better. And, unless we exterminate ourselves, we can certainly continue to do so.

But never forget that the crab mentality is ever-present and there are always those that will resist or resent improvement for a myriad of reasons. We continue to rise as a species on the efforts of those that fight them and work for a better world regardless.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:34 pm

WaPo
British Prime Minister Boris Johnson faced defections from senior allies Thursday as a backlash built and opponents planned legal challenges to his decision to suspend Parliament to push his Brexit plans.

The resignation of Ruth Davidson, who had been touted as a future prime minister, along with another senior Conservative in the House of Lords, was a sign of rising worry within Johnson’s ranks that the move to suspend Parliament was sidelining Britain’s elected representatives during one of the biggest political crises in generations.
...
The resignations came after protesters jammed streets in cities around the country, including in London, Edinburgh and Manchester. Outside of Parliament, demonstrators chanted “stop the coup!” A petition calling for the government to stop the suspension quickly surged past 1 million signatures. Johnson’s adversaries promised to appeal his move in the courts. And Brexit opponents were strategizing about how to use their dwindling time in Parliament to halt the relentless move toward an uncontrolled break from Europe.
...
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn said that when Parliament reconvenes after summer break Tuesday, he would move immediately to pass legislation to keep the chamber open and to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
...
Davidson’s departure after eight years leading the Scottish wing of the party is a major blow for the Conservatives, whose fortunes she helped to turn around in an area of Britain where the Conservative Party was for decades a toxic brand.

Davidson’s resignation came shortly after that of George Young, a former cabinet minister who left his post as a government whip in the House of Lords.

The move “risks undermining the fundamental role of parliament at a critical time in our history, and reinforces the view that the Government may not have the confidence of the House for its Brexit policy, Young wrote.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 34420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Kraken » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:47 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:08 pm
Look at the progress that we've made as a civilization in the past three centuries. It's not always been a continuous upward swing, as you can tell when they make documentaries calling it The Century of Warfare. But things continue to get better. And, unless we exterminate ourselves, we can certainly continue to do so.

But never forget that the crab mentality is ever-present and there are always those that will resist or resent improvement for a myriad of reasons. We continue to rise as a species on the efforts of those that fight them and work for a better world regardless.
Futurists and sf writers generally foresaw positive progress, leaving aside nuclear war scenarios that became popular from the 1950s onward. The public in general assumed that technology, medicine, and society would continue to advance in fits and starts toward a more peaceful, prosperous, healthier future.

I'm not sure when dystopias came to outnumber utopias in the popular imagination -- maybe as early as the 1970s, although I don't think we became almost universally pessimistic until the 2000s. Wherever you want to put the tipping point, cheerful, optimistic views of the future are few and far between now. With the Amazon burning, the poles melting, species stampeding toward extinction, and fascists on the rise everywhere, it's easy to understand why.

malchior
Posts: 9010
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by malchior » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:56 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:08 pm
Look at the progress that we've made as a civilization in the past three centuries. It's not always been a continuous upward swing, as you can tell when they make documentaries calling it The Century of Warfare. But things continue to get better. And, unless we exterminate ourselves, we can certainly continue to do so.
I wish I could agree with you but many indicators are showing the opposite and the benchmarks such as generational wealth/debt issues, xeno-racism, and climate activity all heading in the wrong direction in tandem are only going to put pressure on systems unable or unwilling to correct themselves. And this isn't just the US. We are seeing this in multiple advanced democracies. In any case, past success is at least at present not looking like it is predicting the future here.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:04 pm

malchior wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:56 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:08 pm
Look at the progress that we've made as a civilization in the past three centuries. It's not always been a continuous upward swing, as you can tell when they make documentaries calling it The Century of Warfare. But things continue to get better. And, unless we exterminate ourselves, we can certainly continue to do so.
I wish I could agree with you but many indicators are showing the opposite and the benchmarks such as generational wealth/debt issues, xeno-racism, and climate activity all heading in the wrong direction in tandem are only going to put pressure on systems unable or unwilling to correct themselves. And this isn't just the US. We are seeing this in multiple advanced democracies. In any case, past success is at least at present not looking like it is predicting the future here.
Oh, I didn't say it was going to happen soon, or even in some of our lifetimes. There are many reasons that I went back for my Master's. The coming economic system meeting the side of a mountain of shortsightedness and active profit-taking was one of the first.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:02 pm

WaPo
Britain’s Parliament returns from its summer recess and is facing a titanic showdown over Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s plans to leave the European Union. Here’s what we know:

●Johnson has lost his majority in Parliament, with the defection of Conservative Phillip Lee to the Liberal Democrats.

●The opposition, including members of Johnson’s party, is seeking to pass legislation to delay Brexit.

●Johnson, who is addressing Parliament now, has said that if his foes succeed he will call early elections.
...
Johnson has warned that if his foes succeed, he will trigger a snap general election — and bar those who vote against him this week from running as Conservatives.

malchior
Posts: 9010
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by malchior » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:51 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:02 pm
Johnson has warned that if his foes succeed, he will trigger a snap general election — and bar those who vote against him this week from running as Conservatives.
This instantly blew up in his face. You can't stop them for running if they aren't in your party anymore!

malchior
Posts: 9010
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by malchior » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:50 am

I'm watching PMQ right now - it certainly sounds like Parliament is going to force the Government to go back to EU to get an extension and also Johnson will likely lose a vote to hold a general election. The outcome is that they still are lurching towards 'no deal' and again throws them to the mercy of the EU (to extend the time limit again). It is bonkers.

User avatar
gameoverman
Posts: 5296
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:21 pm
Location: Glendora, CA

Re: Brexit

Post by gameoverman » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:17 pm

I haven't been paying much attention to this topic, but decided to read up on some stuff. The part that shocked me was that someone put up leaving the EU for vote, and people voted to leave, and apparently only now are they trying to hash out the terms(deal) of leaving. It reminds me of the kinds of stupid proposals we see here in the US a lot.
"Hey everyone, let's do this thing!"
"How will it work?"
"We'll figure that out later but we need to do this thing right now."

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:31 pm

They've had over two years to figure it out. They negotiated an agreement with the EU. Parliament rejected that agreement, unchanged, three times under May. The EU refuses to change the negotiated agreement. The party in power keeps insisting that they will.

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32878
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Brexit

Post by El Guapo » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:32 pm

malchior wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:50 am
I'm watching PMQ right now - it certainly sounds like Parliament is going to force the Government to go back to EU to get an extension and also Johnson will likely lose a vote to hold a general election. The outcome is that they still are lurching towards 'no deal' and again throws them to the mercy of the EU (to extend the time limit again). It is bonkers.
What are the odds that the EU grants another extension? Didn't they say that the last extension would be the final one?

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:36 pm

Vox
The UK Parliament has voted to block a no-deal Brexit, an attempt to prevent Prime Minister Boris Johnson from pulling the country out of the European Union without a plan in place.

Members of Parliament pushed the vote through Wednesday, a day after Parliament seized control to do exactly this.
...
The legislation they passed Wednesday says the prime minister must seek a three-month Brexit extension (until January 2020) unless he somehow manages to get a Brexit deal through Parliament by October 19 or unless Parliament explicitly votes to leave the EU without a deal before that date.

Parliament opposes a no-deal exit, and Johnson and the EU have made no progress on renegotiating the Brexit deal, so this is basically a bill that would, once again, postpone the divorce. (For those of you keeping score, the original Brexit deadline was March 29, 2019, and it has since been extended twice, to April and then October.)

Lawmakers want to make this a law by the end of the week. They’ve passed the first hurdle — getting the legislation through Parliament’s House of Commons. It will now go to the House of Lords (Parliament’s upper house, whose members are not directly elected), where another battle will play out. If it passes there, it then goes to the queen, who has to give her “royal assent” in order for it to become a formal Act of Parliament. That last part is mostly a formality, as the queen usually stays out of politics.

But Boris Johnson wasn’t just sitting idly by as Parliament handed him the first defeats of his prime ministership. He immediately introduced to call for general elections — on October 15, just weeks before the Brexit deadline.

And MPs soundly defeated that measure, too — handing Johnson three straight defeats in Parliament and blocking elections. At least for now.
:pop:

User avatar
gameoverman
Posts: 5296
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:21 pm
Location: Glendora, CA

Re: Brexit

Post by gameoverman » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:02 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:31 pm
They've had over two years to figure it out. They negotiated an agreement with the EU. Parliament rejected that agreement, unchanged, three times under May. The EU refuses to change the negotiated agreement. The party in power keeps insisting that they will.
That's just it, if I were a voter over there I would not have voted for it unless they had all relevant parties(Parliament/EU/Prime Minister) in agreement with the elements of the deal. What's the point of voting for something that can't be delivered? I guess if someone didn't want to bother putting a deal together before the vote to exit won the day then they'd wait. The problem with that is then it opens the door to the various parties digging their heels in and blocking the process.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 34420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Kraken » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:21 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:32 pm
malchior wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:50 am
I'm watching PMQ right now - it certainly sounds like Parliament is going to force the Government to go back to EU to get an extension and also Johnson will likely lose a vote to hold a general election. The outcome is that they still are lurching towards 'no deal' and again throws them to the mercy of the EU (to extend the time limit again). It is bonkers.
What are the odds that the EU grants another extension? Didn't they say that the last extension would be the final one?
The EU cares about defending its single market. They don't care if GB crashes out or leaves gracefully. In fact, they would like other member states to see that the consequences of leaving are not trifling. They might extend the date if they believe there's a chance that GB will reconsider, but they aren't going to renegotiate. It's my understanding that the EU has already effectively cauterized the wound, so this is a domestic British issue.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:04 pm

gameoverman wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:02 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:31 pm
They've had over two years to figure it out. They negotiated an agreement with the EU. Parliament rejected that agreement, unchanged, three times under May. The EU refuses to change the negotiated agreement. The party in power keeps insisting that they will.
That's just it, if I were a voter over there I would not have voted for it unless they had all relevant parties(Parliament/EU/Prime Minister) in agreement with the elements of the deal. What's the point of voting for something that can't be delivered? I guess if someone didn't want to bother putting a deal together before the vote to exit won the day then they'd wait. The problem with that is then it opens the door to the various parties digging their heels in and blocking the process.
There is no deal until you tell them you want to leave:
A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

malchior
Posts: 9010
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by malchior » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:42 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:32 pm
malchior wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:50 am
I'm watching PMQ right now - it certainly sounds like Parliament is going to force the Government to go back to EU to get an extension and also Johnson will likely lose a vote to hold a general election. The outcome is that they still are lurching towards 'no deal' and again throws them to the mercy of the EU (to extend the time limit again). It is bonkers.
What are the odds that the EU grants another extension? Didn't they say that the last extension would be the final one?
Hard to say but interestingly they've been silent the last few days. In the past, they've given hints that they'll engage. Maybe it means nothing (and extending costs them little) but I think this knife's edge moment is why Parliament has no patience for Johnson's antics. He has been saying he is negotiating with Brussels. Brussels says nothing of substance has happened absent the Merkel meeting. During PMQ he got battered about that several times and he just didn't answer the question about what the government is actually doing other than some bluster about negotiations are done in private. That doesn't matter much though because of what is currently happening Parliament right now.

So at days end, they voted against no deal in the House of Commons and did not go for the general election. Now the 'no deal' aka rebel bill is being filibustered in the House of Lords and the brexit hardliners are dumping tons of amendments (around 100) on the docket to run out the clock. They have to keep the bill from passing by delaying it 5 days when Parliament will be prorogued.

The bill will pass if it comes up for a vote so the Lords are doing a voting marathon. They've just broken the record for most votes in a session and are chugging away at the backlog. At present, no one knows if the filibuster will succeed. If it fails, Johnson apparently has more options to force 'no deal'. If he succeeds, they very well could still go over the cliff and all using the 'non-democratic' functions of Parliament to get there. It is madness.

Edit: Updates are saying that the filibuster failed and they'll have the rebel bill and amendments back to the commons for a final vote by Monday. Now we see if Johnson has another trick ready.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:56 pm

NPR
Jo Johnson, the brother of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, has resigned from Parliament, in the latest sign of Brexit turmoil. Jo Johnson says that in recent weeks he has been "torn between family loyalty and the national interest" and that he is stepping down from his roles as both a government minister and a member of Parliament.

"It's an unresolvable tension," Jo Johnson said in a tweet, "and time for others to take on my roles as MP & Minister. #overandout"
...
Jo's resignation follows a string of defeats for Boris, who has repeatedly promised to pull the U.K. out of the European Union by the current deadline of Oct. 31. On Wednesday night, Parliament voted to block Boris' plan to leave the EU without a deal, and members of his own party have spoken out to protest his decision to purge 21 Conservative Party members of Parliament who opposed a no-deal Brexit.

The expelled Conservatives include prominent members such as Nicholas Soames, grandson of Winston Churchill, who has served as a member of Parliament for 37 years, and Ken Clarke, the longest-serving member of Parliament. Some of the lawmakers reportedly learned they had been kicked out of their party via text message.

This is the second time Jo Johnson has taken a very public stand over Brexit. Last year, he stepped down from Theresa May's government in protest of the withdrawal agreement she negotiated with the European Union. In 2016, the two brothers were on opposite sides of the referendum, with Boris pushing to leave the EU and Jo in favor of remaining.

User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 17963
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: Brexit

Post by Defiant » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:41 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:56 pm
NPR
Jo Johnson, the brother of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, has resigned from Parliament, in the latest sign of Brexit turmoil. Jo Johnson says that in recent weeks he has been "torn between family loyalty and the national interest" and that he is stepping down from his roles as both a government minister and a member of Parliament.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:05 pm

:clap:

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:43 pm

BBC
Amber Rudd has quit Boris Johnson's cabinet, with an outspoken attack on the government's approach to Brexit.

The ex-work and pensions secretary said the government was having no "formal negotiations" with the EU about a new deal, only "conversations".

Instead, 80-90% of Brexit work was spent preparing for an "inferior" no-deal option, she said.
...
Ms Rudd told the Sunday Times she would be considering whether to stand as an independent Conservative should there be an general election.

In her resignation letter to the prime minister, Ms Rudd said: "I joined your cabinet in good faith: accepting that 'No Deal' had to be on the table, because it was the means by which we would have the best chance of achieving a new deal to leave on 31 October.

"However I no longer believe leaving with a deal is the government's main objective."

She called the PM's decision to expel 21 MPs from the parliamentary Conservative party an "act of political vandalism", after her former colleagues rebelled last week over a bill designed to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

"If we become a party which has no place for the type of moderates that I am, the centre-right Conservatives, then we will not win [a general election]," she said.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:24 am

WaPo
The colorful and controversial speaker of the British House of Commons announced a surprise resignation Monday, hours before Parliament was expected to again reject Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s call for early elections.

John Bercow — known for his enthusiastic shouting of “order, order” and his stalwart defense of Parliamentary power — set the tone for a long day of debate with the announcement that he would step down on Oct. 31, if the push for an October election indeed fails.
...
“We degrade this Parliament at our peril,” Bercow told lawmakers in an emotional address, as his wife looked on from the gallery.

Most lawmakers gave him a standing ovation — a rare display on the House floor — though many hardline Brexiteers, who believe Bercow is biased toward the pro-E.U. camp, stayed seated.

Bercow has been an outspoken advocate for allowing Parliament to serve as a check on the prime minister’s power. That stance was significant last week, with Bercow giving lawmakers the chance to block Johnson’s attempts to take Britain out of the E.U. without a deal.

User avatar
AWS260
Posts: 10515
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:51 pm
Location: Brooklyn

Re: Brexit

Post by AWS260 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:03 pm

Interesting.
One theory doing the rounds in Dublin is that Boris Johnson may pull a Northern Ireland-only backstop out of the bag at the last minute as a means of forcing a Brexit deal through parliament in between 17 October and 31 October.

The idea was mooted early on in Brexit talks but famously dropped after opposition from the DUP, which accused Theresa May of trying to break up the union of the United Kingdom by creating regulatory checks down the Irish Sea.

But Johnson’s proposal for an all-island agriculture zone is one of the key elements of the backstop and now that the DUP no longer has the leverage it had because of the changed arithmetic, some believe this is where the landing zone is.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:34 pm

CBS News
Britain's Queen Elizabeth II approved legislation Monday making it illegal for Prime Minister Boris Johnson to take the U.K. out of the European Union without an agreement or the consent of Parliament on October 31. The announcement came hours before a 5-week parliamentary shutdown was scheduled to come into effect.

Last Wednesday, Parliament passed the so-called "no-deal" legislation, which — now that it has been rubber stamped by the Queen — forces Johnson to ask the EU for a three-month extension to the October 31 Brexit deadline, unless Parliament approves a new withdrawal agreement or votes to allow a "no-deal" divorce by October 19.

malchior
Posts: 9010
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by malchior » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:10 am

So if you are keeping up, Parliament was Prorogued for 5 weeks and the Prorogation ceremony got a bit...heated.


User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:17 pm

CNN
The UK government's decision to shut down Parliament in the run-up to Brexit was illegal, Scotland's highest civil court has ruled, in a serious blow to embattled Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

In a devastating ruling, a panel of three senior judges unanimously declared that Johnson's advice to the Queen to suspend Parliament for five weeks was "unlawful."

Johnson has always insisted that his decision was a routine device that allowed the government to start a new parliamentary session with a fresh legislative agenda. But the Scottish judges disagreed, saying it was motivated by the "improper purpose of stymying Parliament."
...
The court did not immediately issue an order to lift the suspension -- also known as prorogation -- noting that the High Court in London had come to a different conclusion and that the UK Supreme Court would need to resolve the issue. The government confirmed that it would appeal the Scottish court's decision to the Supreme Court.

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 61177
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by LordMortis » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:19 pm

I cannot speak to the legitimacy of the data

Enlarge Image

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:30 pm

Guardian
Boris Johnson’s Brexit negotiators have so far only presented the EU with a draft of the withdrawal agreement with the backstop scrubbed out, UK government sources have confirmed.

In a move that has caused tensions with EU leaders, Johnson’s team are refusing to put forward a written proposal to Brussels at this stage for fear it will be rejected out of hand or publicly rubbished.

Instead, they want to wait until almost the last minute before the October summit before presenting a plan to the EU, with just two weeks before the UK is due to leave the bloc.

The UK government source said the two sides had debated alternatives to the backstop in written discussion documents – such as an all-Ireland regulatory zone and customs checks away from the border – but they would not be putting forward a legal text to the EU at this stage.

There have been reports that David Frost, the UK’s lead negotiator, is keeping a plan locked safe in his briefcase but the wording has not been shared with Brussels.
Playing games with people's lives.

User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 17963
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: Brexit

Post by Defiant » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:11 pm

Looks like Brexit's going to be renewed for another season

UK ‘cannot meet’ EU deadline for Brexit plan and needs another year, government says

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 38939
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by hepcat » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:04 am

Boris' balls were just nailed to the front door of Parliament.
The supreme court has ruled that Boris Johnson’s advice to the Queen that parliament should be prorogued for five weeks at the height of the Brexit crisis was unlawful.

The judgment from 11 justices on the UK’s highest court follows an emergency three-day hearing last week that exposed fundamental legal differences over interpreting the country’s unwritten constitution.
Aw...kward.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32878
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Brexit

Post by El Guapo » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:37 am


User avatar
Sepiche
Posts: 7975
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Olathe, KS
Sepiche’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Sepiche » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:36 pm


GungHo
Posts: 3757
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
Location: Second star to the right

Re: Brexit

Post by GungHo » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:16 am

So...why did everyone want to get rid of May again? As an American I can't really say anything given our situation but this just seems really strange. I suppose that's my whole problem with this issue; I just can't comprehend the nuances of the English government. But boy is it fascinating
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

-Hiccup

User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 16143
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish

Re: Brexit

Post by coopasonic » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:34 pm

GungHo wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:16 am
So...why did everyone want to get rid of May again? As an American I can't really say anything given our situation but this just seems really strange. I suppose that's my whole problem with this issue; I just can't comprehend the nuances of the English government. But boy is it fascinating
Yeah I've watched numerous updates on the situation and it makes no sense to me. Much liking watching our own national news.
-Coop

User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 32948
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: Brexit

Post by Remus West » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:52 pm

Not like ours at all really. In the UK the law is fighting back against those attemtping to run roughshod over it.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 38939
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by hepcat » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:07 pm

Boris and his cohorts thought the EU would bend over backwards and give them whatever they wanted. They wanted to leave the EU while still getting the majority of the perks. When the EU said...uhh...no...that's not how this works, May stepped up and got the best deal she could get. But since it wasn't everything they had before, but without EU membership, a lot of idiots blamed May for not being able to mind control EU leadership into getting everything they wanted AND a gift basket from Body Works. So she had to go, obviously. At this point, they realized that mind control was off the table because it hadn't been invented yet, so they faced either going back on their word that they'd withdraw from the EU, or keep on pushing back the deadline and grow weaker and weaker as they did so. So they decided to take the baby (England), the bathwater (common sense and decency) and an autographed photo of Tom Jones (Tom Jones) and throw them off the Cliffs of Dover. Then they started begging Satan to destroy the U.K. so no one would notice that they fucked everyone over.

Did I get it right?
Last edited by hepcat on Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32878
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Brexit

Post by El Guapo » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:12 pm

hepcat wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:07 pm
Boris and his cohorts thought the EU would bend over backwards and give them whatever they wanted. They wanted to leave the EU while still getting the majority of the perks. When the EU said...uhh...no...that's now how this works, May stepped up and got the best deal she could get. But since it wasn't everything they had before, but without EU membership, a lot of idiots blamed May for not being able to mind control EU leadership into getting everything they wanted AND a gift basket from Body Works. So she had to go, obviously. At this point, they realized that mind control was off the table because it hadn't been invented yet, so they faced either going back on their word that they'd withdraw from the EU, or keep on pushing back the deadline and grow weaker and weaker as they did so. So they decided to take the baby (England), the bathwater (common sense and decency) and an autographed photo of Tom Jones (Tom Jones) and throw them off the Cliffs of Dover. Then they started begging Satan to destroy the U.K. so no one would notice that they fucked everyone over.

Did I get it right?
Arguably this is a lot like the Trump campaign (including similar Russian interference scandals) in that a lot of people weren't expecting it to succeed, but rather were using it for politics and positioning. Johnson probably thought that he could win over the conservative base this way and position himself to take over the party / become PM. When it passed, they were stuck because the underlying promises (get money back from Brussels with no real cost or pain) were complete bullshit. So May was stuck doing an impossible job. She did the best that she could, but the best possible deal couldn't really pass muster against the promises of sunshine, rainbow, and free ice cream.

So May was replaced because she couldn't succeed at an inherently impossible job.

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 61177
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by LordMortis » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:25 pm

The irony for Brexit and for Tea Party turned Trump Decree is it's another variant on the mobocracy litanies they always warn against when they attack the tyranny of the majority. The disconnect is the stuff of Kafka nightmares.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:38 pm

Parliament is back, baby!
Prime Minister Boris Johnson flew home Wednesday to face a House of Commons filled with hooting and harrumphing lawmakers, as further calls rang out for his resignation, and Parliament reconvened to resume its seemingly endless quarreling over Brexit.

“Colleagues, welcome back to our place of work!” bellowed the John Bercow, speaker of the House of Commons, to cheers from the benches.
...
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox defended the suspension. “At all times the government acted in good faith and the belief that our approach was lawful and constitutional,” he declared.

This assertion was answered by a chorus of audible grumbling.

Cox brushed aside calls for his own ouster, saying, “If I was called upon to resign every time I lost a case, I’d never have a practice.”

Then Cox exploded at lawmakers who have prevented the government from holding an early election to break the gridlock. “This is a dead Parliament. . . . It has no moral right to sit on these green benches,” he said, prompting wild cheering and jeering.

“But the time is coming,” he warned, his booming voice rising above the din. “The time is coming, Mr. Speaker, when even these turkeys won’t be able to prevent Christmas!”

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32878
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Brexit

Post by El Guapo » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:47 pm

Ummmm...do Thanksgiving turkeys delay Christmas? Would Christmas be sooner if not for them?

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 61927
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:58 pm

They don't do Thanksgiving.

Post Reply