Fundraising complete, next renewal is August 2022. Paypal Donation Links US dollars CDN Dollars

Brexit

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 36241
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Brexit

Post by El Guapo »

So why would turkeys be in the position of preventing Christmas?
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 64102
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by LordMortis »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:03 pm So why would turkeys be in the position of preventing Christmas?
My instinct would be to say that the turkeys are to be slaughtered for traditional Christmas dinner and the people will be happy and well fed. But the word even betrays that interpretation. So I got nothing.

It does make me wonder we sang "Christmas is coming and the goose is getting fat" The Internet say the Brits have been eating turkey for X Mas for centuries.

http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/food/food- ... 4219321074
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 8967
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: Brexit

Post by Max Peck »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:03 pm So why would turkeys be in the position of preventing Christmas?
Christmas is the oncoming election. He's saying that the Members of Parliament that are blocking an immediate election (the turkeys) won't survive the election once it inevitably arrives.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 36241
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Brexit

Post by El Guapo »

Do people eat a lot of turkey at Christmas? I thought ham was the big Christmas dish.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

66% of Brits do turkey at Chrimbo.
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 37514
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Kraken »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:39 pm Do people eat a lot of turkey at Christmas? I thought ham was the big Christmas dish.
We have nachos on Tgiving and meat loaf on xmas. We're rebels.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

I go for Italian on Cinco de Mayo.
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 12367
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Brexit

Post by Jaymann »

I eat French food to celebrate La Retraite.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

Jaymann wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:55 pm I eat French food to celebrate La Retraite.
I hear it's a decent Catholic School for Girls.
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 41530
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: Brexit

Post by hepcat »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:03 pm So why would turkeys be in the position of preventing Christmas?
Your average turkey in England is well over 5 feet in height and can weigh up to 20 stone. If they want to stop a holiday, they can certainly do it. Fun fact: everything I’ve learned about turkeys I’ve learned while drunk.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33379
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: Brexit

Post by Remus West »

hepcat wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:06 pm verything I’ve learned I’ve learned while drunk.
Fixed?

On a side note, there are more and more wild turkey groups (herds? clusters?) around my area. Those birds are BIG. We had one male that lived on the corner near us that was blocking the road in front of my car one day. I got out to shoo it away. When it straightened it's neck it was taller than me (6'1")!!
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
Z-Corn
Posts: 4639
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:16 pm
Location: GR, MI

Re: Brexit

Post by Z-Corn »

A few years ago I was stopped at a light around the corner from my house and a big tom ran out of the bushes and starting pecking the side of my Jeep.

He could see his reflection and thought he needed to fight a rival.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33379
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: Brexit

Post by Remus West »

Z-Corn wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:20 am A few years ago I was stopped at a light around the corner from my house and a big tom ran out of the bushes and starting pecking the side of my Jeep.

He could see his reflection and thought he needed to fight a rival.
The one I mentioned eventually got hit and killed doing something similar. It was very sad as he had become a sort of neighborhood mascot. People put up memorials at the corner when it happened.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 12367
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Brexit

Post by Jaymann »

Z-Corn wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:20 am
He could see his reflection and thought he needed to fight a rival.
I thought you were talking about Boris.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Z-Corn
Posts: 4639
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:16 pm
Location: GR, MI

Re: Brexit

Post by Z-Corn »

Jaymann wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:16 am
Z-Corn wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:20 am
He could see his reflection and thought he needed to fight a rival.
I thought you were talking about Boris.
Naw, you can tell by looking at him he's never seen his reflection.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 5844
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: Brexit

Post by Alefroth »

Z-Corn wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:16 pm
Jaymann wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:16 am
Z-Corn wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:20 am
He could see his reflection and thought he needed to fight a rival.
I thought you were talking about Boris.
Naw, you can tell by looking at him he's never seen his reflection.
:clap:
Biyobi
Posts: 5385
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:21 pm
Location: San Gabriel, CA

Re: Brexit

Post by Biyobi »

Remus West wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:05 am
On a side note, there are more and more wild turkey groups (herds? clusters?) around my area.
I believe group of wild turkey are called a "case".
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 3928
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: Brexit

Post by em2nought »

Jaymann wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:16 am
Z-Corn wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:20 am
He could see his reflection and thought he needed to fight a rival.
I thought you were talking about Boris.
Trump should start some Lend-Lease to Boris. :mrgreen:
Image
Good Night, and Good Luck.
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 14509
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Brexit

Post by Zarathud »

El Guapo wrote:So why would turkeys be in the position of preventing Christmas?
tryptophan and food poisoning, duh
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNBC
Prime Minister Boris Johnson will on Wednesday unveil his final Brexit offer to the European Union and make clear that if Brussels does not engage with the proposal, Britain will not negotiate further and will leave on Oct. 31.
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 36241
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Brexit

Post by El Guapo »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:59 pm CNBC
Prime Minister Boris Johnson will on Wednesday unveil his final Brexit offer to the European Union and make clear that if Brussels does not engage with the proposal, Britain will not negotiate further and will leave on Oct. 31.
Isn't he now legally required to seek an extension over a no deal, though?
Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 14595
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:41 am
Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:59 pm CNBC
Prime Minister Boris Johnson will on Wednesday unveil his final Brexit offer to the European Union and make clear that if Brussels does not engage with the proposal, Britain will not negotiate further and will leave on Oct. 31.
Isn't he now legally required to seek an extension over a no deal, though?
Yeah - he has hinted previously that he might ignore the law on that. This is obviously more explicit and I'm sure is going to draw a lot of scorn.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 36241
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Brexit

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:46 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:41 am
Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:59 pm CNBC
Prime Minister Boris Johnson will on Wednesday unveil his final Brexit offer to the European Union and make clear that if Brussels does not engage with the proposal, Britain will not negotiate further and will leave on Oct. 31.
Isn't he now legally required to seek an extension over a no deal, though?
Yeah - he has hinted previously that he might ignore the law on that. This is obviously more explicit and I'm sure is going to draw a lot of scorn.
I wonder what the legal remedy for that would be. Given the Parliamentary prorogation (or whatever that's called) decision by the UK Supreme Court, I would think it reasonably likely that they would be willing to issue some sort of hostile opinion if Johnson refused to comply with the extension mandate.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

BBC: Can a no-deal Brexit still happen?
The law states that it is the prime minister himself who would have to request an extension directly to the president of the European Council.

It even includes the exact wording of the letter.

So, theoretically, Mr Johnson could refuse to write or sign that letter. But that would almost certainly lead to more court action.

There have been suggestions that Mr Johnson could follow the law by sending the letter - but send another letter setting out his political policy to leave on 31 October.
...
Even if Mr Johnson agrees to write the letter, it would still have to be accepted by all of the other EU governments.
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

WaPo
European policymakers said Thursday that a new Brexit proposal from British Prime Minister Boris Johnson was unworkable, heightening the prospects of a chaotic British departure from the European Union within weeks.

Although leaders, politicians and negotiators did not dismiss Johnson’s plan out of hand, they made clear the current offer would not win support from the 27 countries that need to sign off on any withdrawal deal, and they were downbeat about it serving as the basis for serious negotiations.
...
Johnson’s most substantive plan so far, presented to E.U. leaders Wednesday, tries to address issues in Northern Ireland — the major barrier to a withdrawal agreement. But his written proposal crosses several E.U. red lines. Some policymakers assessed that it would be more damaging to the European Union than the economic and political instability that could come with an abrupt “no-deal” Brexit without any transition period to buffer the way.
...
Many European leaders appear to be deferring — for now — to Ireland because of how directly it would be affected by the terms of a Brexit withdrawal.

“There are elements of this proposal that simply will not be part of any deal,” Irish deputy leader Simon Coveney said Thursday.
...
Although British Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay had admonished that the ball was in the European Union’s court, Bertaud emphasized, “This work is for the U.K. to do, not the other way around.”
:pop:
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 41530
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: Brexit

Post by hepcat »

Looks like the sun will be setting even faster on the British empire soon.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

BBC
Boris Johnson will send a letter to the EU asking for a Brexit delay if no deal is agreed by 19 October, according to government papers submitted to a Scottish court.

The document was revealed as campaigners sought a ruling forcing the PM to comply with the law.

Their QC said the submission contradicted statements by the prime minister last week in Parliament.

But Downing Street said the UK would still be leaving the EU on 31 October.
...
A senior Downing Street source said: "The government will comply with the Benn Act, which only imposes a very specific narrow duty concerning Parliament's letter requesting a delay - drafted by an unknown subset of MPs and pro-EU campaigners - and which can be interpreted in different ways.

"But the government is not prevented by the Act from doing other things that cause no delay, including other communications, private and public.

"People will have to wait to see how this is reconciled. The government is making its true position on delay known privately in Europe and this will become public soon."
...
Mr Johnson has said he would rather be "dead in a ditch" than ask for a delay.

In a tweet on Friday afternoon, he said: "New deal or no deal - but no delay."
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
malchior
Posts: 14595
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Brexit

Post by malchior »

One way to interpret that craziness is they go to the EU and explain that they don't want the delay. I have to think that the EU knows this is insane so I have to think they will cook up some leverage. This is a really bad timeline.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 36241
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Brexit

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:10 pm One way to interpret that craziness is they go to the EU and explain that they don't want the delay. I have to think that the EU knows this is insane so I have to think they will cook up some leverage. This is a really bad timeline.
So they need to send a letter requesting a delay. Strictly speaking they can theoretically do other things that impede the delay, possibly including sending a subsequent letter saying that they don't want a delay. Some interesting questions - if the EU immediately grants the delay upon receiving the letter, I would assume that delay would still be binding.

Also if they are too cute in what they do, I assume a court would regard them as being in defiance of a reasonable interpretation of the law.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

BBC
A Scottish judge has dismissed a move to force Boris Johnson to comply with a law aimed at avoiding a no-deal Brexit.

Campaigners had wanted to ensure that the prime minister would write to the EU to request an extension if no deal is in place by 19 October.

They argued that statements made by the government showed that it could not be trusted.

But Lord Pentland said there could be "no doubt" that the prime minister had agreed to abide by the law.

As a result, he said there was no need for "coercive orders" against the UK government or against the prime minister.

And he said it would be "destructive of one of the core principles of constitutional propriety and of the mutual trust that is the bedrock of the relationship between the court and the Crown" if Mr Johnson reneged on his assurances to the court.
...
In his ruling, Lord Pentland said the UK government had accepted it must "comply fully" with the act and would not seek to "frustrate its purpose".

As a result, he said there was "no proper basis" on which the court could decide that the government would fail to deliver on that undertaking.
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 68861
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Isgrimnur »

BBC
A No 10 source has said a Brexit deal is "essentially impossible" after a call between the PM and Angela Merkel.

Boris Johnson and the German chancellor spoke earlier about the proposals he had put forward to the EU - but the source said she made clear a deal based on them was "overwhelmingly unlikely".

Mrs Merkel's office said it would not comment on "private" conversations.

But the BBC's Adam Fleming said there was "scepticism" within the EU that Mrs Merkel would have used such language.

And the EU's top official warned the UK against a "stupid blame game".
Black Lives Matter

Unrelated: "It's its own cloaca, shaped in its perfect, unique way"
User avatar
Jolor
Posts: 3021
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:25 am

Re: Brexit

Post by Jolor »

If only - at least ONE - of the previous PMs had been able to secure a "deal" with the EU for Leave, to at least provide a framework; a point to build on / move forward from. But, alas.

And, sadly, Stay was never supported by the populace.
So sayeth the wise Alaundo.
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 30740
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: Brexit

Post by Blackhawk »

The passengers are bickering over who gets the nicest lifeboat while the ship is sinking.
________________________________________
The light at the end of the tunnel

Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 5844
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: Brexit

Post by Alefroth »

I mentioned Brexit to a co-worker today and she had never heard the term. I wonder how common it is to have absolutely zero interest in the world at large.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 37514
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: Brexit

Post by Kraken »

Alefroth wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:41 am I mentioned Brexit to a co-worker today and she had never heard the term. I wonder how common it is to have absolutely zero interest in the world at large.
A quote that I recently saw from a woman who doesn't pay attention to politics clarified this for me. To her, politics is like a sport that she isn't interested in. As someone who is keenly interested in politics, but pays zero attention to any form of sportsball, I understood that. Sure it's a false equivalence; politics ultimately affect everyone's life, whereas sportsball affects nothing -- but in terms of perception, sports is immediate and clear and thrilling and easy to follow, while politics is long-term and opaque and boring and complicated.

Anyway, seeing those two things equated gave me an inkling how somebody can be as oblivious to politics as I'm oblivious to sportsball.
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 30740
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: Brexit

Post by Blackhawk »

As someone who took years (too many years) to start paying attention to politics, I have to say that the biggest problem is that it doesn't make sense. The comparison would be more like a sport that had a massive, detailed rulebook, and everyone had to follow that rulebook. You look at the politicsball and you read the rulebook - ok, overly complicated, but you get it. Except that nobody does what's in the book. Each person writes their own rulebook that is designed to make it look like they're following the official one, then pays the referees to argue on their behalf about how their rulebook is actually the right one.

How do you learn to follow that?
________________________________________
The light at the end of the tunnel

Black Lives Matter
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 26665
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: Brexit

Post by stessier »

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:07 am As someone who took years (too many years) to start paying attention to politics, I have to say that the biggest problem is that it doesn't make sense. The comparison would be more like a sport that had a massive, detailed rulebook, and everyone had to follow that rulebook. You look at the politicsball and you read the rulebook - ok, overly complicated, but you get it. Except that nobody does what's in the book. Each person writes their own rulebook that is designed to make it look like they're following the official one, then pays the referees to argue on their behalf about how their rulebook is actually the right one.

How do you learn to follow that?
Also, there is no "winning" or even permanence to any decision. Anything can change at any time if you get enough people to agree with you. It's pretty nuts.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 30740
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: Brexit

Post by Blackhawk »

I think the hardest part is that everything you hear is suspect. The reporting - for both sides - is dishonest. Claims made while campaigning aren't true, and aren't expected to be followed. Public statements are spun so much that they're completely irrelevant. Official press conferences are just advertising blitzes for one side. Explanations of systems are filled with bias. Motivations are hidden.

If you decide to take an interest in politics, where do you get your information in that kind of environment? How can you have confidence that you're learning what's real and not just being manipulated?
________________________________________
The light at the end of the tunnel

Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 5844
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: Brexit

Post by Alefroth »

Kraken wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:40 am
Alefroth wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:41 am I mentioned Brexit to a co-worker today and she had never heard the term. I wonder how common it is to have absolutely zero interest in the world at large.
A quote that I recently saw from a woman who doesn't pay attention to politics clarified this for me. To her, politics is like a sport that she isn't interested in. As someone who is keenly interested in politics, but pays zero attention to any form of sportsball, I understood that. Sure it's a false equivalence; politics ultimately affect everyone's life, whereas sportsball affects nothing -- but in terms of perception, sports is immediate and clear and thrilling and easy to follow, while politics is long-term and opaque and boring and complicated.

Anyway, seeing those two things equated gave me an inkling how somebody can be as oblivious to politics as I'm oblivious to sportsball.
I can see the parallels and I'm nearly as apathetic about sports, yet I still can't avoid seeing the big stories while I consume other news. I can't imagine the sort of media isolation needed to never have heard of Brexit until now.
Post Reply