The American Apocalypse

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Captain Caveman
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Captain Caveman »

Kurth wrote:
malchior wrote:I deleted a post about that CNN bullshit last night because i was pretty pissed about it. I'm still pretty pissed so guess i will go with it. CNN is truly plumbing the depths in a way that stirs the pot versus illuminates it. Angrifying.
I thought calling Spencer and the "alt-right" out for the hateful garbage they are spewing was a good thing, no? I watched that CNN segment, and I didn't find anything objectionable about the content, although the "paraphrasing" by the host was lazy and sloppy.
I thought the whole segment was reprehensible. The two commentators had a "pro vs con" discussion about whether Trump should denounce his Nazi supporters. "One the one hand, some say Nazis are not a good thing. On the other hand, this is part of his base that he doesn't want to alienate".

Abysmal.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Kraken »

Grifman wrote:
Kraken wrote:The Boston Globe still rocks it, too. Anyone here see Spotlight? That unit is still at work and still making a difference, at least locally.
Just saw it on Netflicks, that was a great movie.
Me, Wife, and several of our friends have worked in the newspaper industry in the past; we all agreed that it was a highly accurate picture of how journalists really work. Kudos to the director for making a suspenseful movie whose outcome is known in advance, and whose action scenes primarily involve interviewing and note-taking. :)
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Re: The American Apocalypse

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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by geezer »

Defiant wrote:
That guy... I looked at his policy positions during the campaign - there's not a lot he and I agree on (though there is some), but I could *respect* him. Good for him for speaking up.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Skinypupy »

geezer wrote:That guy... I looked at his policy positions during the campaign - there's not a lot he and I agree on (though there is some), but I could *respect* him. Good for him for speaking up.
I had lots of Mormon friends and family who voted for him, and I felt the same way. I completely disagree with him on most issues, but he is a solid character guy.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by geezer »

Skinypupy wrote:
geezer wrote:That guy... I looked at his policy positions during the campaign - there's not a lot he and I agree on (though there is some), but I could *respect* him. Good for him for speaking up.
I had lots of Mormon friends and family who voted for him, and I felt the same way. I completely disagree with him on most issues, but he is a solid character guy.
I was curious, so I went back and looked at his stuff again.

Anti Roe of course, which would be a nonstarter for a lot of people, including likely myself, though I'm not sure to what extent he allows for early term, health of the mother, rape/incest or other conditionals.

Acknowledges climate change.

Wants to reform entitlements, including means testing - I actually have no problem with that in concept.

Tax cutter (again, of course), and I believe philosophically that's wrong and inevitably leads to social program cuts from necessary services, but that's a difference of policy opinion that I think a discussion can reasonably be had around.

There are a few more, but those seem to be the touchpoints. As I said, I don't think I would vote for the guy, but I wouldn't think less of someone who did.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by malchior »

Captain Caveman wrote:
Kurth wrote:
malchior wrote:I deleted a post about that CNN bullshit last night because i was pretty pissed about it. I'm still pretty pissed so guess i will go with it. CNN is truly plumbing the depths in a way that stirs the pot versus illuminates it. Angrifying.
I thought calling Spencer and the "alt-right" out for the hateful garbage they are spewing was a good thing, no? I watched that CNN segment, and I didn't find anything objectionable about the content, although the "paraphrasing" by the host was lazy and sloppy.
I thought the whole segment was reprehensible. The two commentators had a "pro vs con" discussion about whether Drumpf should denounce his Nazi supporters. "One the one hand, some say Nazis are not a good thing. On the other hand, this is part of his base that he doesn't want to alienate".

Abysmal.
Exactly - it treats hate as some political faction we have to tolerate because the great leader needs them for support. How is that a legitimate discussion? How did we get here? Seriously - we are at rock bottom here and people are just meh-ing it.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by LordMortis »

malchior wrote:
Captain Caveman wrote:
Kurth wrote:
malchior wrote:I deleted a post about that CNN bullshit last night because i was pretty pissed about it. I'm still pretty pissed so guess i will go with it. CNN is truly plumbing the depths in a way that stirs the pot versus illuminates it. Angrifying.
I thought calling Spencer and the "alt-right" out for the hateful garbage they are spewing was a good thing, no? I watched that CNN segment, and I didn't find anything objectionable about the content, although the "paraphrasing" by the host was lazy and sloppy.
I thought the whole segment was reprehensible. The two commentators had a "pro vs con" discussion about whether Drumpf should denounce his Nazi supporters. "One the one hand, some say Nazis are not a good thing. On the other hand, this is part of his base that he doesn't want to alienate".

Abysmal.
Exactly - it treats hate as some political faction we have to tolerate because the great leader needs them for support. How is that a legitimate discussion? How did we get here? Seriously - we are at rock bottom here and people are just meh-ing it.
If we're looking for a good line to cut off Trump Supporters as idiots that you can't hold a discussion with, refusing to repudiate Nazis is one of those pretty good litmus tests.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Holman »

There's now swastika graffiti in my neighborhood. It feels like Trump is making America great already.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Captain Caveman
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Captain Caveman »

Holman wrote:There's now swastika graffiti in my neighborhood. It feels like Trump is making America great already.
A friend of mine on facebook posted a picture of a swasitka scrawled on his car. And this was in Portland, Oregon.

(He's not Jewish, but might have been a target because he's in a non-traditional polyamorous family)
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Paingod »

On the other side of the country, in Portland, Maine, a town where everything generally rolls nicely and people get along, we've had similar incidents. At least one swastika I've heard about on the radio, and this incident where someone actually climbed into the car, slashed her seats to hell, and carved "TRUMP" into the dashboard because of her bumper sticker. Others have threatened or attacked our Somali population (in one case, a woman tried to pull the Hajib off a Somali girl).
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Jeff V »

Holman wrote:There's now swastika graffiti in my neighborhood. It feels like Trump is making America great already.
A great new America that will last 1000 years...
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Defiant »

“Alt-right” (quotation marks, hyphen and lower case) may be used in quotes or modified as in the “self-described” or “so-called alt-right” in stories discussing what the movement says about itself.

Avoid using the term generically and without definition, however, because it is not well known and the term may exist primarily as a public-relations device to make its supporters’ actual beliefs less clear and more acceptable to a broader audience. In the past we have called such beliefs racist, neo-Nazi or white supremacist.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Defiant »

One White Supremacist says if there's an NAACP, there should be an WAACP

Who wants to tell him?
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Kraken »

Defiant wrote:One White Supremacist says if there's an NAACP, there should be an WAACP

Who wants to tell him?
NAAW...
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Defiant »

Defiant wrote:
Defiant wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote:
Defiant wrote:Which works out to about 35 incidents per day.
So for that 5.5 days, we are looking at 2 to 2.5 times the expected daily rate?

NOTE: Having an "expected daily rate" of hate crimes is nauseating in its own right.
Something like that (ideally a report by the FBI over the past week would be the best way to compare). That number might go up some as more reports of incidents during that time are found (eg, between when the first report of 200 and the update of 437, the number of incidents listed for 11/9 went up from just over 100 to just over 140).
701 incidents between 11/9 - 11/16

Around two thirds took place during the first three days (although, as I said above, the numbers will probably continue to rise. The number for 11/9 have gone up to ~175 incidents)
867 in the first ten days following the election, or 2.48x the normal rate. The count for 11/9 has gone up to 202.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Rip »

What is the rate of hoaxes compared to the normal rate?
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Re: The American Apocalypse

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Rip wrote:What is the rate of hoaxes compared to the normal rate?
I'm sure a lot of normal folks are going to go out and paint swastikas on their own homes in order to get attention. Most normal (non-white supremesists) would rather proudly put up a "Not my President" sticker than paint vile hate logos on their own homes. So I'm guessing the hoax rate is something like 0.01%. Even if someone went out and did this as a "hoax" to rile people up, it still sends the same message to everyone else and it quickly stops being a hoax to everyone else involved.

This is becoming the golden age of the internet troll, finally crawling out of their basement caves and slopping their shit in reality. They're just following the Great Leader's example.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Rip »

Paingod wrote:
Rip wrote:What is the rate of hoaxes compared to the normal rate?
I'm sure a lot of normal folks are going to go out and paint swastikas on their own homes in order to get attention. Most normal (non-white supremesists) would rather proudly put up a "Not my President" sticker than paint vile hate logos on their own homes. So I'm guessing the hoax rate is something like 0.01%. Even if someone went out and did this as a "hoax" to rile people up, it still sends the same message to everyone else and it quickly stops being a hoax to everyone else involved.

This is becoming the golden age of the internet troll, finally crawling out of their basement caves and slopping their shit in reality. They're just following the Great Leader's example.
On Saturday morning, two students vandalized Griffin Hall to bring attention to the potential impact of the presidential election on campus.

The students poured a red wood-stain substance resembling blood down the main stairwell of Griffin Hall and wrote “AMKKK KILL” in the stairwell. In addition, the perpetrators splattered the stain substance around the lobby outside of Griffin 3.

The vandalism was discovered by a visitor to campus, who had been inside the Thompson Memorial Chapel. After leaving the chapel, the visitor wanted to see the inside of Griffin Hall and discovered what he thought was blood upon entering the building through the main entrance on the South side. The visi-tor immediately contacted the Williamstown Police Department (WPD) at noon on Saturday and both the WPD and Campus Safety and Security (CSS), which was contacted by the WPD, responded.
http://williamsrecord.com/2016/11/16/tw ... -saturday/
Strong accusations were made by a Bowling Green State University student the day after election day.

Eleesha Long said she was assaulted and called a racial slur, but BG police said she made the story up.

Long wrote a police complaint on November 9th that reads in part, "while walking down Crim St to ask for yard signs, three boys began to throw rocks at me."

Long continued to write the white males shouted profanity at her while wearing Trump shirts. She described how all three young men looked and what they were wearing.
http://www.13abc.com/content/news/BG-po ... 14426.html
A Bowling Green State University official announced Friday that a man’s story that he was pushed to the ground, robbed, and called a derogatory slur wasn’t true.

Thomas Gibson, vice president for student affairs and vice provost, sent an email updating students about the investigation. He said filing a false report is a serious offense, but did not elaborate on the incident.

A man previously said two assailants pushed him to the ground and robbed him about 4 p.m. Tuesday behind the Student Recreation Center. They then called him a derogatory slur, according to a university spokesman.

Officials did not publicly identify him. A police spokesman was unavailable for comment Friday evening.

The incident is the second occurrence this month investigated by the university where someone claimed to have been assaulted and called a racial slur that turned out to be false.

Bowling Green city police charged a woman they said fabricated a report that she was assaulted and called a racial slur on Nov. 9 in the 200 block of Crim Street.

Officers charged Eleesha Long, 24, of Bowling Green with falsification and obstructing official business. She is set for arraignment Nov. 28 in Bowling Green Municipal Court.
http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/ ... e-too.html
Hateful notes and emails allegedly sent to a North Park University student were “fabricated,” the school’s president said Tuesday in a statement, and the woman who claimed they were aimed toward her is no longer enrolled at the school.
“We are confident there is no further threat of repeated intolerance to any member of our campus community stemming from this recent incident,” the university’s President David Parkyn said in a statement.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/no ... 56366.html
Many Stone County High School students who attended a prayer rally Wednesday said allegations that white students placed a noose around the neck of a black student and yanked it have been misconstrued.

A racially diverse group of students and residents gathered in Blaylock Park to unite in prayer after their small community came under the national spotlight with the NAACP calling for a federal hate-crime investigation into the incident.

NAACP officials held a press conference Monday, accusing a group of white students, including a member of the football team, of putting a rope around a black player’s neck. At least one pulled on the rope, but several others were involved, an NAACP official said.

Derrick Johnson, the state NAACP director, said witnesses characterized the pulling of the rope as like the tightening of a noose and said the town of Wiggins has “always been a trouble spot” for racism.

But the students and residents who spoke to the Sun Herald on Wednesday disputed those claims, saying the incident was locker-room mischief involving a jump rope — not a rope tied into a noose — with no malicious motivation behind it.

Student Dennis Rojas said the player accused of the act is actually good friends with the black student.

Rojas and students Mikayla Shaw and Breanna Hull agreed it was a prank gone wrong.

Hull said it was never an issue at the school until it gained national media attention.

Gail Collins, a Wiggins resident of more than 30 years, said she’s never personally experienced any racism in the town.
http://www.sunherald.com/news/local/art ... 25232.html
A woman who claimed in a Facebook post that she was a victim of a sexual assault and that Kirkland Police responded but did not investigate, made it all up.

Police say the woman, who they did not identify, admitted she fabricated the entire event. She told police she posted the false claim because she was “distraught over the recent election.”
http://q13fox.com/2016/11/18/woman-post ... -election/
Police said Friday morning that a woman who claimed a stranger slashed her in the face made the whole story up.
The 20-year-old woman had previously said that she was walking on a lower Manhattan sidewalk Thursday when she was slashed in the face by stranger who called her a "terrorist."
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/EM ... 91921.html
A 15-year-old transgender teen admitted to police Tuesday that he made up a story about being sexually assaulted a day earlier in the boys bathroom at Hercules Middle High School, authorities said.
The boy acknowledged making the false report - which raised alarm at the school and around the Bay Area - after investigators told him that the evidence gathered in the case didn't corroborate his story, said Hercules police Detective Connie Van Putten.
Police found no injuries to the boy's head, face or hands, Van Putten said.
The boy's original report had raised concerns on campus, in part because of a previous incident in which another transgender student was involved in a fight on campus in November.
Police have closed what they initially considered a hate-crime investigation and are considering whether the teenager will face criminal charges for filing a false police report, Van Putten said.
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/H ... to-5976783
Calum McSwiggan, 26, a YouTuber, posted a photo of himself on social media claiming that he was attacked outside a gay bar in West Hollywood Monday, but the police are telling a different story.

In a statement to The Advocate, Holly M. Perez, captain of the West Hollywood Station of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, said that authorities responded to McSwiggan's report that he was assaulted by three men outside of a gay club. Officers "were unable to substantiate the assault," Perez said. The YouTuber "had no visible injuries" and was arrested when officers went to the scene "after deputies observed him vandalizing a car." The 26-year-old was booked and photographed (photo above) and placed in a cell by himself at the West Hollywood Station. It was there that station personnel say McSwiggan "was then observed injuring himself with the handle and receiver to a payphone inside the cell."

The YouTuber was taken to a local hospital to be treated for his injuries. "Mr. McSwiggan’s booking photo was taken prior to deputies seeing Mr. McSwiggan injuring himself," according to the sheriff's department statement, after providing McSwiggan's booking photo, which shows no visible injuries.
http://www.advocate.com/crime/2016/6/28 ... hate-crime
In the latest case of a faked hate crime, a 20-year-old man has admitted he made it up when he told Malden cops he was harassed by two men proclaiming it’s “Trump country now.”

The man, whose name police have not released, had filed a complaint saying when he got off an MBTA bus near Broadway Square in Malden at 10 p.m. Tuesday, at least two white men approached him.

The men used a racial slur, made a reference to lynching and warned him this is Donald “Trump country now,” according to the report he gave police. He was able to get away from the men and hid before calling police, officials said.

Investigators prioritized resources for the suspected “hate crime” incident and re-interviewed the alleged victim.

“As a result, it has been determined that the story was completely fabricated,” Malden police Chief Kevin Molis said in a statement. “The alleged victim admitted that he had made up the entire story,” saying he wanted to “raise awareness about things that are going on around the country.”

Police informed the man of the legal consequences of filing a false police report and warned him of the potential damaging impact that they had on the local community.

Malden Mayor Gary Christenson said, “When I heard the story was fabricated, we were not surprised at all.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_ ... _in_malden

:naughty:

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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by hepcat »

Okay, okay. Paingod should have written 0.02%. Happy now?

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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Zarathud »

College students.

Then again, there's video of an entitled Trumper saying racist shit and ranting at a Michaels store. But apparently it doesn't count unless there are bruises....

If Rip would research to support the crazy shit he posts anywhere near as well, we might actually have a discussion sometimes.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Defiant »

Well, I'm sure the SPLC didn't bother to remove the above cases.... Oh wait.
We have excluded incidents that authorities have determined to be hoaxes
I also like how of the hoaxes listed, a slight majority didn't take place during the period covered, with some going back 6+ months and one going back as far as two years back.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Skinypupy »

Defiant wrote:Well, I'm sure the SPLC didn't bother to remove the above cases.... Oh wait.
We have excluded incidents that authorities have determined to be hoaxes
I also like how of the hoaxes listed, a slight majority didn't take place during the period covered, with some going back 6+ months and one going back as far as two years back.
Don't you know that once one incident is proven to be a fake, that means all of them are fake?

(That's the line of reasoning I keep hearing as to why everyone should just "get over it" when it comes to the uptick of racially charged incidents.)
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Blackhawk »

Rip wrote:
I could go on but my hand is tired.
Poor arguments make you that excited, huh? Try lotion.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Rip »

As more and more get investigated a substantial number turn out like this.
A 58-year-old South Jersey man has been arrested and charged with vandalizing several vehicles and homes in South Philadelphia on the day after the presidential election, police announced Thursday.

William Tucker, of the unit block of Hemmings Way in Lawnside, Camden County, has been arrested and charged in the early-morning Nov. 9 incidents on the 900 block of South Sixth Street, at the border of Bella Vista and Queen Village, police said.

On that morning, residents on the block awoke to find racist and pro-Trump graffiti spray painted on their storefronts, cars and homes.

One of the damaged cars was a white SUV that had "Trump Rules" and "Black Bitch" spray-painted across it in large black letters. The 62-year-old owner of the car, who is a black woman, has said she reported the vandalism to police.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real ... ?mobi=true
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Re: The American Apocalypse

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Paingod wrote:On the other side of the country, in Portland, Maine, a town where everything generally rolls nicely and people get along, we've had similar incidents. At least one swastika I've heard about on the radio, and this incident where someone actually climbed into the car, slashed her seats to hell, and carved "TRUMP" into the dashboard because of her bumper sticker. Others have threatened or attacked our Somali population (in one case, a woman tried to pull the Hajib off a Somali girl).
Eh I live in Portland. Nothing different here largely. Anyone saying otherwise is greatly exaggerating. I work closely with areas of the refugee population in several areas. A couple of isolated incidents at most. Idiots will be idiots. They find a reason.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Holman »

Nearly half of Americans fine with torture.
Nearly half of Americans in a global survey said they believed an enemy fighter could be tortured to extract information, according to results released Monday. That finding puts respondents in the United States in contrast with citizens of many countries and at odds with international law, which prohibits torture under any circumstances.

The results were part of a poll carried out by the International Committee of the Red Cross, which surveyed 17,000 people in 16 countries, including many nations in conflict or recovering from conflict, to gauge public opinion about the laws of war.

The findings on torture were among the starkest. Among Americans, 46 percent said torture could be used to obtain information from an enemy combatant, while 30 percent disagreed and the rest said they did not know. On a more general question, one in three said torture was “part of war,” just over half called it “wrong,” and the rest said they did not know or preferred not to answer.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by hepcat »

Rip wrote:As more and more get investigated a substantial number turn out like this.
A 58-year-old South Jersey man has been arrested and charged with vandalizing several vehicles and homes in South Philadelphia on the day after the presidential election, police announced Thursday.

William Tucker, of the unit block of Hemmings Way in Lawnside, Camden County, has been arrested and charged in the early-morning Nov. 9 incidents on the 900 block of South Sixth Street, at the border of Bella Vista and Queen Village, police said.

On that morning, residents on the block awoke to find racist and pro-Trump graffiti spray painted on their storefronts, cars and homes.

One of the damaged cars was a white SUV that had "Trump Rules" and "Black Bitch" spray-painted across it in large black letters. The 62-year-old owner of the car, who is a black woman, has said she reported the vandalism to police.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real ... ?mobi=true
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by geezer »

Holman wrote:Nearly half of Americans fine with torture.
Nearly half of Americans in a global survey said they believed an enemy fighter could be tortured to extract information, according to results released Monday. That finding puts respondents in the United States in contrast with citizens of many countries and at odds with international law, which prohibits torture under any circumstances.

The results were part of a poll carried out by the International Committee of the Red Cross, which surveyed 17,000 people in 16 countries, including many nations in conflict or recovering from conflict, to gauge public opinion about the laws of war.

The findings on torture were among the starkest. Among Americans, 46 percent said torture could be used to obtain information from an enemy combatant, while 30 percent disagreed and the rest said they did not know. On a more general question, one in three said torture was “part of war,” just over half called it “wrong,” and the rest said they did not know or preferred not to answer.
Huh. HRC was wrong. It's not just half of Trump supporters that are deplorable, it's half of all Americans apparently.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by coopasonic »

I think it may be the portrayal of torture in movies and shows like 24. It's portrayed as a thing that is done so people think it is a thing that is done. Also, I suspect it is a thing that is done. Was torture defined? People may also have different ideas of what torture is. Is sleep deprivation torture?
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by malchior »

coopasonic wrote:I think it may be the portrayal of torture in movies and shows like 24. It's portrayed as a thing that is done so people think it is a thing that is done. Also, I suspect it is a thing that is done. Was torture defined? People may also have different ideas of what torture is. Is sleep deprivation torture?
Not only that - but also a thing that works! Jack Bauer shoots someone in the leg and gets the accurate location of the bomb - instead of that person sending Jack off on a wild goose chase.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by hepcat »

I want to say that people are generally intelligent enough to distinguish between tv and reality. Then I remember who is president elect and that just falls the hell apart. :cry:
He won. Period.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Holman »

malchior wrote:
coopasonic wrote:I think it may be the portrayal of torture in movies and shows like 24. It's portrayed as a thing that is done so people think it is a thing that is done. Also, I suspect it is a thing that is done. Was torture defined? People may also have different ideas of what torture is. Is sleep deprivation torture?
Not only that - but also a thing that works! Jack Bauer shoots someone in the leg and gets the accurate location of the bomb - instead of that person sending Jack off on a wild goose chase.
So exciting!

The best episodes are the ones where Jack prevents future bombings by torturing people thought to be sympathetic to the bomb-makers. In the spin off, he determines that the threat of torture can prevent not just bombs but *all kinds* of behavior unacceptable to the Bauer regime.

Some thrillers end after a couple of seasons, but this one can go on forever.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Chaz »

hepcat wrote:I want to say that people are generally intelligent enough to distinguish between tv and reality. Then I remember who is president elect and that just falls the hell apart. :cry:
There's also the "CSI Effect", which is a thing where over the last decade, juries have put more and more weight on forensic evidence, believing that presence of it is a sure sign of guilt, and lack of supporting forensic evidence is damning for whichever side is missing it. Basically, they've seen enough police procedurals to believe that forensic evidence is always present, and 100% reliable, and they take that belief with them into the jury box.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Jeff V »

geezer wrote: Huh. HRC was wrong. It's not just half of Trump supporters that are deplorable, it's half of all Americans apparently.
That seems about right. She was more concerned with likely voters, a group that itself was only half of all Americans. Of course, that probably means more than half of Trump supports are deplorables - so Hillary was still giving them the benefit of the doubt by implicating only half of them.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Defiant »

No. No, no, no, no, no. No.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

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Image
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Re: The American Apocalypse

Post by Enough »

Defiant wrote: No. No, no, no, no, no. No.
That is incredibly disturbing.
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Re: The American Apocalypse

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