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Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

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GreenGoo
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by GreenGoo » Fri May 10, 2019 1:54 pm

YellowKing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:50 pm
It really depends on how you're defining "decency."

Are you defining it as the sum of all your actions? Or are you defining it as to whether you're a friendly colleague who is gracious enough to have you over for dinner even though you're from opposite ends of the political spectrum? From that conversation, I felt like Biden was defining it mostly by the latter.
Depends how many strangled and skinned cats he has in the basement, doesn't it? Particularly if discussing those cats is what he believes is polite dinner conversation.

The idea that polite, friendly people are inherently decent is ludicrous.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by YellowKing » Fri May 10, 2019 4:26 pm

YellowKing wrote:The idea that polite, friendly people are inherently decent is ludicrous.
I said nothing of the sort. I'm just saying that the only person who knows what "decency" is in this context is Biden. The OO forum is not the final arbiter on what objectively defines decency.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Fri May 10, 2019 4:28 pm

YellowKing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:26 pm
YellowKing wrote:The idea that polite, friendly people are inherently decent is ludicrous.
I said nothing of the sort. I'm just saying that the only person who knows what "decency" is in this context is Biden. The OO forum is not the final arbiter on what objectively defines decency.
I suspect this isn't the last time we'll hear "Let Biden be Biden!" in this cycle.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by GreenGoo » Fri May 10, 2019 5:12 pm

YellowKing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:26 pm
I'm just saying that the only person who knows what "decency" is in this context is Biden. The OO forum is not the final arbiter on what objectively defines decency.
I don't know about OO, but I certainly am.

edit: Although quite frankly, if cat strangling isn't over your line, you probably have a skewed perspective on "decent", subjective or no.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken » Fri May 10, 2019 6:55 pm

And I would bet my socks that Cheney was more interested in what's good for Halliburton than what's good for America. Oh look: Halliburton paid him $34 million to go be the VP. It was a good investment for them; Halliburton made $39.5 billion on contracts in Iraq. Oh, and btw he was the guy behind torturing prisoners, for which he has no remorse.

Being a gracious host doesn't make that all OK.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Fri May 10, 2019 7:55 pm

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by YellowKing » Fri May 10, 2019 8:50 pm

Holman wrote:I suspect this isn't the last time we'll hear "Let Biden be Biden!" in this cycle.
I just think it's a trivial thing to disqualify a candidate for. Especially when its from a guy who has a history of getting along with just about everyone. It's not like Biden is going to get in the White House and start another invasion of Iraq because his good buddy Dick Cheney told him so.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by GreenGoo » Fri May 10, 2019 10:15 pm

You already have 1 president who can't tell decent from a hole in the ground. I hear Putin and Kim are both decent fellows, while Trudeau is dishonest and weak.

I can't speak for Kraken, but it's disheartening to hear Biden being chummy with scumbags, and I say that without viewing all Republicans as the enemy.

Cheney is responsible for almost a half million deaths with nothing to show for it. Separately, he is personally responsible for some of the deterioration of cooperation and norms in political discourse. He's part of why drumpf is president and not a pariah.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken » Fri May 10, 2019 10:40 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:15 pm

I can't speak for Kraken,
I deputize you.

Verbally embracing Cheney went over the line for me, and I'm not an especially righteous guy. Other people are unbothered. I don't get how they can think it's OK, but we all have our own ideas about what is and isn't OK, and that's OK. OK?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Pyperkub » Sat May 11, 2019 1:42 pm

While I too am a bit disheartened by his recent statements, it's also important to remember things like this.

Biden on torture
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by GreenGoo » Sat May 11, 2019 3:38 pm

Has drumpf set the bar that low? I mean, Biden is against torture. Fantastic. When did "are you pro/con torturing people who are helplessly in your complete control?" become a worthwhile question or any answer beyond "are you fucking kidding me?" noteworthy?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Blackhawk » Sat May 11, 2019 4:20 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:38 pm
Has drumpf set the bar that low? I mean, Biden is against torture. Fantastic. When did "are you pro/con torturing people who are helplessly in your complete control?" become a worthwhile question or any answer beyond "are you fucking kidding me?" noteworthy?
2004.
[This space left intentionally blank.]

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by GreenGoo » Sat May 11, 2019 4:27 pm

OK, good to know.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by gbasden » Sun May 12, 2019 3:52 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:38 pm
Has drumpf set the bar that low? I mean, Biden is against torture. Fantastic. When did "are you pro/con torturing people who are helplessly in your complete control?" become a worthwhile question or any answer beyond "are you fucking kidding me?" noteworthy?
Given that seemingly all of the Republican party is OK with it now that John McCain has passed, I would say it's important to highlight occasionally.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Tue May 14, 2019 11:46 am

OK, I'm on Team Warren now.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by coopasonic » Tue May 14, 2019 11:56 am

Yes. Very well put.
-Coop

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Remus West » Tue May 14, 2019 2:24 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:38 pm
Has drumpf set the bar that low? I mean, Biden is against torture. Fantastic. When did "are you pro/con torturing people who are helplessly in your complete control?" become a worthwhile question or any answer beyond "are you fucking kidding me?" noteworthy?
pffft. That question became important immediately following 9/11 since thats when we really ramped up our efforts. :(
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by YellowKing » Tue May 14, 2019 3:38 pm

Trump can dis-invite and treat like shit any news outlets he wants to, but I'm sure Warren bowing out of the Fox town hall will result in cries of snowflake outrage.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by LordMortis » Tue May 14, 2019 4:48 pm

While losing ads sucks, she thinks Fox News is all about the ads and that they are struggling and that's wrong. Fox News is all about controlling the cable companies revenue streams. A la carte cable or cutting the cord is what will hurt Fox News. Ad revenue comes from the likes of MyPillow and such. They're not going anywhere unless they go belly up from you not buying MyPillows.

First things I could find

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/heres-h ... rs/361164/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -essential
21st Century Fox Inc. doesn’t break down the network’s revenue sources, but S&P Global Market Intelligence estimates that about 37 percent of its $2.7 billion in operating revenue came from ads in 2018. Affiliate fees, meanwhile, generated about 60 percent.
https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/fox-ne ... 202490160/
Fox News Channel commands by far highest monthly subscriber fee among the cable-news networks, according to market research firm SNL Kagan/S&P Global Market Intelligence. Fox News is seen generating $1.55 per subscriber per month this year, Kagan said, compared to 79 cents for CNN and 26 cents for MSNBC. As a result, its revenue from distribution is significantly higher than the money it makes from advertising. Fox News Channel was projected to generate $1.67 billion in affiliate revenue in 2016, SNL Kagan said, compared with $952.8 million in net advertising revenue.
At my core I still support Warren but the more and more she is politicking instead of policy wonking the less and less she shines for me. I stand with a refusal to accept Fox news and yet that statement seems crafted to be correct without giving the real picture.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Tue May 14, 2019 5:02 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:48 pm
At my core I still support Warren but the more and more she is politicking instead of policy wonking the less and less she shines for me. I stand with a refusal to accept Fox news and yet that statement seems crafted to be correct without giving the real picture.
Is *anybody* policy wonking 10% as much as Elizabeth Warren?
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken » Tue May 14, 2019 5:07 pm

Holman wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:02 pm
LordMortis wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:48 pm
At my core I still support Warren but the more and more she is politicking instead of policy wonking the less and less she shines for me. I stand with a refusal to accept Fox news and yet that statement seems crafted to be correct without giving the real picture.
Is *anybody* policy wonking 10% as much as Elizabeth Warren?
People don't vote for policies, so she has to get down in the mud with the rest of them. I do not see this as a mudbath, though, so much as a stand on principle. Maybe I've been hoodwinked, but I don't think so.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by LordMortis » Tue May 14, 2019 5:49 pm

Kraken wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:07 pm
I do not see this as a mudbath, though, so much as a stand on principle. Maybe I've been hoodwinked, but I don't think so.
That's the thing though. I get the principle and I stand with it but then she crafts a statement other than the principle as her foundation. When that happens my trust goes down.

Hers is the first claim I have ever seen that Fox News is struggling. That's bold.

First thing I could find

https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/ ... 3d-quarter

I can't find a breakdown for Fox News specifically
EBITDA for Fox’s cable network programming unit rose 7% to $741 million from $692 million. Revenue increased 4% to $1.38 billion from $1.32 billion. Affiliate revenues were up 5% and ad revenues rose 4%

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Tue May 14, 2019 6:34 pm

I think she was specifically saying that some of the more hate-filled commentary shows are struggling with advertisers. Certainly we have seen over the last year a number of big advertisers drop their support of shows like Tucker Carlson.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by hepcat » Tue May 14, 2019 9:05 pm

In the age of 20 minute outrage, those sponsors are usually back after someone else says something hateful/stupid.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by AWS260 » Thu May 16, 2019 8:42 am

Oh good another Democratic presidential candidate.
Bill de Blasio, the Democratic mayor of New York City, announced on Thursday that he was running for president, seeking to show that his brand of urban progressive leadership can be a model for the rest of the nation.
He's my mayor -- and former city council rep -- and I genuinely like the guy. But he is not remotely presidential.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Malificent » Thu May 16, 2019 8:58 am

AWS260 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:42 am
Oh good another Democratic presidential candidate.
Bill de Blasio, the Democratic mayor of New York City, announced on Thursday that he was running for president, seeking to show that his brand of urban progressive leadership can be a model for the rest of the nation.
He's my mayor -- and former city council rep -- and I genuinely like the guy. But he is not remotely presidential.
De Blasio PAC Spends $30 Million On Ads Urging Candidate Not To Embarrass Self By Running

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant » Thu May 16, 2019 1:15 pm

Holman wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:02 pm

Is *anybody* policy wonking 10% as much as Elizabeth Warren?
10%? Sure. I've seen policy proposals put forward by, at least, Gillibrand, Booker, Klobuchar and Harris. But yeah, Warren is way in the lead by an order of magnitude.

But if we wanted policies, Clinton would be President. (OK, to be fair - Clinton put a ton of proposals out there and the media largely ignored her policy talk)

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Dogstar » Thu May 16, 2019 2:06 pm

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/ ... -Democracy

16% of those interviewed are for delaying the election; 7% are for Trump staying in office even if defeated. Those numbers are nowhere remotely close to a majority, but are still way too high.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Jaymann » Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm

Dogstar wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:06 pm
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/ ... -Democracy

16% of those interviewed are for delaying the election; 7% are for Trump staying in office even if defeated. Those numbers are nowhere remotely close to a majority, but are still way too high.
Actually I would love to see him try to stay in office and the swat team is called in.
Jaymann
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Remus West » Thu May 16, 2019 2:42 pm

Jaymann wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm
Dogstar wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:06 pm
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/ ... -Democracy

16% of those interviewed are for delaying the election; 7% are for Trump staying in office even if defeated. Those numbers are nowhere remotely close to a majority, but are still way too high.
Actually I would love to see him try to stay in office and the swat team is called in.
Can you be sure which side the SWAT team would support? If he tries to stay in office we are looking at civil war most likely.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Sun May 19, 2019 3:05 pm


Spoiler:
The woman is his wife, Jill.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by hitbyambulance » Sun May 19, 2019 4:00 pm

Holman wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:05 pm

Spoiler:
The woman is his wife, Jill.
deleted already!

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Sun May 19, 2019 4:24 pm

It was a video tweeted by "Students for Trump" purporting to show Biden getting handsy.

They should have kept it up to get funny ha-ha irony points. Deleting it just shows that they're idiots.

Do your homework, "Students."
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kurth » Mon May 20, 2019 10:26 am

El Guapo wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:31 pm
Kraken wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:56 pm
Cheney is the biggest American war criminal since Kissinger. But I'm sure he's a nice guy if you get to know him.
Shrug. To me this is just saying that Cheney isn't a comic book villain - he was someone who did what he thought was best for America. I know lots of decent people with terrible beliefs.

YMMV, but this seems low bar for something completely disqualifying.
100% agree.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by rittchard » Mon May 20, 2019 5:37 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:34 pm
I think she was specifically saying that some of the more hate-filled commentary shows are struggling with advertisers. Certainly we have seen over the last year a number of big advertisers drop their support of shows like Tucker Carlson.
On a related note, Mayor Pete killed it last night on his Fox News town hall. He was perhaps the most animated I've seen him yet, and received a standing ovation at the end which even caught the host guy off guard. The host tried to bait him a few times on abortion, but other than that it seemed like a fairly benign environment. So much so that some were claiming he had filled the room with his friends lol.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/19/politics ... index.html

Also, his website finally has a policy/position page up if you are interested:

https://peteforamerica.com/issues

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Mon May 20, 2019 5:55 pm

rittchard wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 5:37 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:34 pm
I think she was specifically saying that some of the more hate-filled commentary shows are struggling with advertisers. Certainly we have seen over the last year a number of big advertisers drop their support of shows like Tucker Carlson.
On a related note, Mayor Pete killed it last night on his Fox News town hall. He was perhaps the most animated I've seen him yet, and received a standing ovation at the end which even caught the host guy off guard. The host tried to bait him a few times on abortion, but other than that it seemed like a fairly benign environment. So much so that some were claiming he had filled the room with his friends lol.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/19/politics ... index.html

Also, his website finally has a policy/position page up if you are interested:

https://peteforamerica.com/issues
It really looks like he did a great job, and he seems to have won the crowd. This is especially impressive since I assume Fox must have put a finger on the attendance scale.

Meanwhile, Fox today is straight-up lying about what he said at the event.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant » Tue May 21, 2019 12:37 am

If anyone wants to watch the Pete's Town Hall, you can watch it here:









Buttigieg continues to impress me. Solid answers to questions (I was most impressed with his response to the question on third trimester abortion - the section on it is about 8 minutes into the first video if anyone wants to jump to it). He pushes Democratic policies, but not with the standard talking points. And he took some well deserved shots at the some of Fox's commentators.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken » Tue May 21, 2019 1:22 am

I might could get behind Mayor Pete. His position statements are fine, albeit bereft of details, and he's charismatic. He's the best of the centrists, anyway.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Jeff V » Tue May 21, 2019 10:14 am

Wonder if this changed his polling numbers. The last batch I saw a few days ago had him as the only top 10 Dem that projects to lose to Trump.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by pr0ner » Tue May 21, 2019 10:53 am

Jeff V wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:14 am
Wonder if this changed his polling numbers. The last batch I saw a few days ago had him as the only top 10 Dem that projects to lose to Trump.
I think he's actually polling third in Iowa right now.
Hodor.

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