Fundraising complete, next renewal is August 2022. Paypal Donation Links US dollars CDN Dollars

Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 40920
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by hepcat »

I honestly believe that until we address the underlying issue that is sky high healthcare costs, dealing with medical insurance for all is a pipe dream. Health care costs in this country are ridiculous. Case in point: I had a minor hernia operation a couple of months ago. For approximately 4 hours at the hospital (it wasn't even an overnight stay), the cost for the hospital services alone was 30,000 dollars. That doesn't include anesthesia, that doesn't include the cost of the actual operation, that doesn't include the cost of the surgeon's time. That's 30,000 dollars to lie in a room for an hour waiting on them to come get me, 30 minutes in the operating room, then 2 hours or so to wake up in recovery.

Health care costs in this country need far more oversight than they are getting.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

Black Lives Matter
User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 12742
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by ImLawBoy »

I don't think you can address one without the other. LawBeef probably knows this better than I do, but part of the reasons medical costs are so high is due to insurance, and part of the reason insurance is so high is because of medical costs. Any real solution needs to address both parts as equally important.
That's my purse! I don't know you!
User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 19322
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant »

Turns out the New York Times fucked up the Clinton story (which caused others to mess it up, too).



rest of thread here
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 35690
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo »

It's also telling that everyone treated that (erroneous) claim as serious and substantive. Like, if the NYT had fucked up and indicated that Clinton was saying that Cory Booker was being groomed by the Russians, everyone would've been like "that can't be right, that makes no sense." But when it's reported that Clinton was suggesting that the Russians were grooming Gabbard, everyone takes it seriously (because it's facially plausible given Gabbard's past actions and positions).
malchior
Posts: 13374
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

I threw this into the deathwatch thread as well because the story had some legs for several reasons. I agree it is part Tulsi looking like the Jill Stein of this election. However, a big part of it is that they still haven't learned the lessons of 2016 yet. Additionally, they were lazy and didn't check primary sources; overarching all of it is the appearance if not the truth that they are overwhelmed competing with social media and are missing easy things. 2020 is going to be messy and we need them to be better.
User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 15784
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by pr0ner »

Yes, this is from a writer for The Federalist, but oy!

Hodor.
User avatar
gilraen
Posts: 3008
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:45 pm
Location: Broomfield, CO

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by gilraen »

Tulsi Gabbard has now announced that she won't seek re-election for her Congress seat. So it's either because she knows she can't beat her primary challenger, wants to throw in a 3rd-party presidential bid, or has plans for a cushy Fox News contributor job.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 35690
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo »

I feel like at some point we as a nation have to get together and write Hillary Clinton a long apology letter.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24145
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman »

gilraen wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:35 am or has plans for a cushy Fox News contributor job.
I think she already has one.

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33311
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Remus West »

El Guapo wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:38 am I feel like at some point we as a nation have to get together and write the entire world outside of dictators and strongmen a long apology letter.
ftfy
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 35690
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo »

Remus West wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:42 am
El Guapo wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:38 am I feel like at some point we as a nation have to get together and write the entire world outside of dictators and strongmen a long apology letter.
ftfy
I mean, that too.
User avatar
Kurth
Posts: 3806
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kurth »

On the way to work yesterday, I drove under an overpass that had a dozen people with signs supporting . . . Marianne Williamson for President.

How is she still even in the race?

We are truly fucked. :grund:
The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it -- John Gilmore
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Exodor
Posts: 16621
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Exodor »

Kurth wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:20 am On the way to work yesterday, I drove under an overpass that had a dozen people with signs supporting . . . Marianne Williamson for President.
Welcome to Portland.

Jill Stein had a disturbing number of supporters here, too.
User avatar
Kurth
Posts: 3806
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kurth »

Exodor wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:42 am
Kurth wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:20 am On the way to work yesterday, I drove under an overpass that had a dozen people with signs supporting . . . Marianne Williamson for President.
Welcome to Portland.

Jill Stein had a disturbing number of supporters here, too.
Yep. I’ve been here for 4.5 years now, and I still don’t totally get it. On my commute every day, I see almost an equal number of Bernie Bro’s bumper stickers mixed in with OREGUNIAN stickers with images of assault rifles.

Things were so much simpler in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts.
The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it -- John Gilmore
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Exodor
Posts: 16621
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Exodor »

Kurth wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:18 pm Yep. I’ve been here for 4.5 years now,
WTF. I could swear you just moved here a few months ago. Time flies...

and I still don’t totally get it. On my commute every day, I see almost an equal number of Bernie Bro’s bumper stickers mixed in with OREGUNIAN stickers with images of assault rifles.
I saw my first in-the-wild Trump 2020 sticker the other day but they're far outnumbered by the Bernie bros - but I don't put Bernie in the same whackadoodle category as a Williamson or Stein. Bernie's been a Senator for a long time, he's got SOME level of credibility.

Doesn't mean I want him as my president, though. :mrgreen:
User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 19322
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant »

User avatar
Jaymann
Posts: 11042
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Jaymann »

Time for a regime change.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
malchior
Posts: 13374
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

Republicans worrying about a wipeout in 2020.

Forget a wipeout. The GOP deserves to be dismantled and the earth salted. It would likely be best if a new Conservative party of sanity rose and replaced this mess.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 63551
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by LordMortis »

Doesn't lousy fund raising just put them even more in the pockets of special interest groups. I can't speak for other states but the Chamber of Commerce and billionaires all but own Michigan media broadcast in political seasons. Not even all of them in state. And they have not given up. They message, they take, and then they pivot. I need look no further than Amash who was a key figure in building the monstrosity we have now, ousted by the same billionaires who placed him.
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 20189
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California
Contact:

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Pyperkub »

malchior wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:21 am I threw this into the deathwatch thread as well because the story had some legs for several reasons. I agree it is part Tulsi looking like the Jill Stein of this election. However, a big part of it is that they still haven't learned the lessons of 2016 yet. Additionally, they were lazy and didn't check primary sources; overarching all of it is the appearance if not the truth that they are overwhelmed competing with social media and are missing easy things. 2020 is going to be messy and we need them to be better.
I don't see Tulsi as as much an issue, because none of the Democratic candidates have had the decades of smears spreading mistrust. The disinformation campaigns are definitely ramping up, but they probably won't have the same effect as the Hillary-hate did because it had so much time to become the narrative.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Drazzil
Posts: 3624
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Drazzil »

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:41 am
gilraen wrote: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:35 am or has plans for a cushy Fox News contributor job.
I think she already has one.

WTF?!
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 40920
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by hepcat »

Putin must have sent down an order to his agents to help put the kibosh on anything that could hurt his golden goose.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

Black Lives Matter
Drazzil
Posts: 3624
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Drazzil »

:naughty:
hepcat wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:27 pm Putin must have sent down an order to his agents to help put the kibosh on anything that could hurt his golden goose.
I wonder if the Hillary "Russians grooming Tulsi" comment to the NYT misprint wasen't an on purpose thing. You know Hillary really says Russians but NYT doesen't have the clout to print it without other sources and Hillary and NYT walk it back a bit. Thats a hell of a mistake to make. There's a HUGE difference between "Russians" and "Republicans" (at least in Theory)

Gabbard's appearance on Fox news makes me wonder...
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
malchior
Posts: 13374
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

Drazzil wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:50 amYou know Hillary really says Russians but NYT doesen't have the clout to print it without other sources and Hillary and NYT walk it back a bit.
You know that you could go listen to the original podcast yourself and hear her point yourself which wasn't about Russians or Republicans grooming her at all? Right?
Thats a hell of a mistake to make. There's a HUGE difference between "Russians" and "Republicans" (at least in Theory)
It wasn't a misprint either. People on the right were making a fuss and someone was too lazy to verify the facts and went along with the noise. If it was you or me, it would be an ordinary understandable mistake considering it is plausible. However, this was the New York Times and they are supposed to better than that. It is in the end another example of their propensity to broadcast right-leaning misinformation without validating its truthfulness. They have done it over and over. The irony of Trump complaining about #fakenews since when they do it...it mostly favors the right.
Gabbard's appearance on Fox news makes me wonder...
This is *entirely* unsurprising. She has acted ridiculously now and in the past and blew away her district support. She was almost certain to be voted out. She alienated everybody and ran over to whoever would listen to her bullshit. You can look back over her career and see her wildly shifting positions and easily realize that no one knows what she stands for because she doesn't stand for anything.
malchior
Posts: 13374
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:33 pmI don't see Tulsi as as much an issue, because none of the Democratic candidates have had the decades of smears spreading mistrust. The disinformation campaigns are definitely ramping up, but they probably won't have the same effect as the Hillary-hate did because it had so much time to become the narrative.
I agree. As the Fox News appearance cements she may be cast in a role as 'convenient foil dem dissent #1' so the "blessed" on the right can justify burying their heads in the sand. The danger in the disinformation campaigns will come into focus once we get a sense of the lines Trump's soldiers are willing to cross from *within* the government.
User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 19322
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant »



I guess the good thing is if she does run third party, she might actually pull in more votes from the right?
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 35690
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo »

Yeah it's not totally clear whether Gabbard running third party would help or hurt Trump. You'd also want to know something about the geographic distribution of Gabbard's support (are there any states where she draws disproportionate support).
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24145
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman »

The question asks about the "Preferred Democratic Nominee," not the eventual president. I imagine Republicans approving of Gabbard simply like her attacking Hillary.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
Drazzil
Posts: 3624
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Drazzil »

malchior wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:53 am
Drazzil wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:50 amYou know Hillary really says Russians but NYT doesen't have the clout to print it without other sources and Hillary and NYT walk it back a bit.
You know that you could go listen to the original podcast yourself and hear her point yourself which wasn't about Russians or Republicans grooming her at all? Right?
Thats a hell of a mistake to make. There's a HUGE difference between "Russians" and "Republicans" (at least in Theory)
It wasn't a misprint either. People on the right were making a fuss and someone was too lazy to verify the facts and went along with the noise. If it was you or me, it would be an ordinary understandable mistake considering it is plausible. However, this was the New York Times and they are supposed to better than that. It is in the end another example of their propensity to broadcast right-leaning misinformation without validating its truthfulness. They have done it over and over. The irony of Trump complaining about #fakenews since when they do it...it mostly favors the right.
Gabbard's appearance on Fox news makes me wonder...
This is *entirely* unsurprising. She has acted ridiculously now and in the past and blew away her district support. She was almost certain to be voted out. She alienated everybody and ran over to whoever would listen to her bullshit. You can look back over her career and see her wildly shifting positions and easily realize that no one knows what she stands for because she doesn't stand for anything.
Thanks for the explination.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 19119
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Unagi »

cringe
User avatar
Exodor
Posts: 16621
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Exodor »

Beto is out
Former Texas congressman Beto O'Rourke announced Friday that he is ending his 2020 presidential campaign, hours ahead of a marquee dinner in Iowa.

O'Rourke told supporters in an email that he will not run for office next year. That means he will also not become a Senate candidate in Texas, despite pleas from some Democrats for him to take on Republican Sen. John Cornyn.
"Though it is difficult to accept, it is clear to me now that this campaign does not have the means to move forward successfully," O'Rourke said in a statement.
Hopefully some of the other bottom-dwellers will take the cue and bow out soon as well.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 36967
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken »

I guess he's angling for Secretary of Taking Guns Away.

Has anyone else noticed that you scarcely hear a peep out of the Dem candidates since impeachment heated up? I see Bernie and Warren in my facebook feed daily, but nobody's making headlines.
Blue Hills Editorial Services
Black Lives Matter!
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 67570
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Good. And if he couldn’t beat Cruz, Cornyn + The Machine would have wiped the floor with him.
Black lives matter
User avatar
Enough
Posts: 14491
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Serendipity
Contact:

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Enough »

Not sure what the heck just happened but a native plant society I am involved with had a notification on FB that they are hosting a video watching party and so curious I clicked it. And it was a freakin' Trump Rally. Nobody at the org actually started this, the one who got there before me said she got a link on a PBS blog to join and then it started. I think someone clearly hacked the group's account or the video watching party feature. I wonder if this is a new dirty deed trick we will be seeing more of, or just a random brain fart from whoever got it going....
My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 14394
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Zarathud »

No they’re going to get dirty. If Trump doesn’t get re-elected, there will be hell to pay.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 24145
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman »

Kraken wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:55 pm Has anyone else noticed that you scarcely hear a peep out of the Dem candidates since impeachment heated up? I see Bernie and Warren in my facebook feed daily, but nobody's making headlines.
We've entered the actual pre-primary. Everyone serious is on the ground in Iowa, where it's a four-way between Warren/Sanders/Pete/Biden, with the others fighting for the edges.

The interesting story is this:

1) Pete has gained significantly in Iowa due to *huge* television ad buys,
2) Biden is struggling in Iowa and seems to be giving it up in favor of a South-Carolina-plus-Super-Tuesday (later primary) strategy,
3) Bernie is holding his position or maybe bumping up a little,
4) Warren is #1 in Iowa despite not spending a *single dime* on television ads.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 19322
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant »

Nancy Pelosi Is Worried 2020 Candidates Are on Wrong Track
“What works in San Francisco does not necessarily work in Michigan,” Pelosi said at a roundtable of Bloomberg News reporters and editors on Friday. “What works in Michigan works in San Francisco — talking about workers’ rights and sharing prosperity.”

“Remember November,” she said. “You must win the Electoral College.”
“Protect the Affordable Care Act — I think that’s the path to health care for all Americans. Medicare For All has its complications,” Pelosi said, adding that “the Affordable Care Act is a better benefit than Medicare.”
Pelosi also expressed worries about voters’ reactions to the Green New Deal, which Sanders and Warren also support, that calls for radical, rapid reductions in carbon emissions. “There’s very strong opposition on the labor side to the Green New Deal because it’s like 10 years, no more fossil fuel. Really?” she said.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 36967
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken »

Yes, Nancy: really. Or haven't you noticed that your state is burning?
Blue Hills Editorial Services
Black Lives Matter!
User avatar
YellowKing
Posts: 26659
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by YellowKing »

I think Nancy's speaking realistically. There's no way in hell we're going to be off all fossil fuels in 10 years.

I'm all for the lofty goals of AOC and others, but I also live in the real world where we can't agree over whether to keep children in cages, much less how to limit carbon emissions.
Black Lives Matter
Post Reply