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Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by hepcat » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:58 pm

I honestly believe that until we address the underlying issue that is sky high healthcare costs, dealing with medical insurance for all is a pipe dream. Health care costs in this country are ridiculous. Case in point: I had a minor hernia operation a couple of months ago. For approximately 4 hours at the hospital (it wasn't even an overnight stay), the cost for the hospital services alone was 30,000 dollars. That doesn't include anesthesia, that doesn't include the cost of the actual operation, that doesn't include the cost of the surgeon's time. That's 30,000 dollars to lie in a room for an hour waiting on them to come get me, 30 minutes in the operating room, then 2 hours or so to wake up in recovery.

Health care costs in this country need far more oversight than they are getting.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by ImLawBoy » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:20 pm

I don't think you can address one without the other. LawBeef probably knows this better than I do, but part of the reasons medical costs are so high is due to insurance, and part of the reason insurance is so high is because of medical costs. Any real solution needs to address both parts as equally important.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:03 am

Turns out the New York Times fucked up the Clinton story (which caused others to mess it up, too).



rest of thread here

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:33 am

It's also telling that everyone treated that (erroneous) claim as serious and substantive. Like, if the NYT had fucked up and indicated that Clinton was saying that Cory Booker was being groomed by the Russians, everyone would've been like "that can't be right, that makes no sense." But when it's reported that Clinton was suggesting that the Russians were grooming Gabbard, everyone takes it seriously (because it's facially plausible given Gabbard's past actions and positions).

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:21 am

I threw this into the deathwatch thread as well because the story had some legs for several reasons. I agree it is part Tulsi looking like the Jill Stein of this election. However, a big part of it is that they still haven't learned the lessons of 2016 yet. Additionally, they were lazy and didn't check primary sources; overarching all of it is the appearance if not the truth that they are overwhelmed competing with social media and are missing easy things. 2020 is going to be messy and we need them to be better.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by pr0ner » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:21 am

Yes, this is from a writer for The Federalist, but oy!

Hodor.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by gilraen » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:35 am

Tulsi Gabbard has now announced that she won't seek re-election for her Congress seat. So it's either because she knows she can't beat her primary challenger, wants to throw in a 3rd-party presidential bid, or has plans for a cushy Fox News contributor job.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:38 am

I feel like at some point we as a nation have to get together and write Hillary Clinton a long apology letter.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:41 am

gilraen wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:35 am
or has plans for a cushy Fox News contributor job.
I think she already has one.

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Remus West » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:42 am

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:38 am
I feel like at some point we as a nation have to get together and write the entire world outside of dictators and strongmen a long apology letter.
ftfy
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:43 am

Remus West wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:42 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:38 am
I feel like at some point we as a nation have to get together and write the entire world outside of dictators and strongmen a long apology letter.
ftfy
I mean, that too.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kurth » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:20 am

On the way to work yesterday, I drove under an overpass that had a dozen people with signs supporting . . . Marianne Williamson for President.

How is she still even in the race?

We are truly fucked. :grund:
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Exodor » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:42 am

Kurth wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:20 am
On the way to work yesterday, I drove under an overpass that had a dozen people with signs supporting . . . Marianne Williamson for President.
Welcome to Portland.

Jill Stein had a disturbing number of supporters here, too.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kurth » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:18 pm

Exodor wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:42 am
Kurth wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:20 am
On the way to work yesterday, I drove under an overpass that had a dozen people with signs supporting . . . Marianne Williamson for President.
Welcome to Portland.

Jill Stein had a disturbing number of supporters here, too.
Yep. I’ve been here for 4.5 years now, and I still don’t totally get it. On my commute every day, I see almost an equal number of Bernie Bro’s bumper stickers mixed in with OREGUNIAN stickers with images of assault rifles.

Things were so much simpler in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Exodor » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:38 pm

Kurth wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:18 pm
Yep. I’ve been here for 4.5 years now,
WTF. I could swear you just moved here a few months ago. Time flies...

and I still don’t totally get it. On my commute every day, I see almost an equal number of Bernie Bro’s bumper stickers mixed in with OREGUNIAN stickers with images of assault rifles.
I saw my first in-the-wild Trump 2020 sticker the other day but they're far outnumbered by the Bernie bros - but I don't put Bernie in the same whackadoodle category as a Williamson or Stein. Bernie's been a Senator for a long time, he's got SOME level of credibility.

Doesn't mean I want him as my president, though. :mrgreen:

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:16 am


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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Jaymann » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:30 am

Time for a regime change.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:06 pm

Republicans worrying about a wipeout in 2020.

Forget a wipeout. The GOP deserves to be dismantled and the earth salted. It would likely be best if a new Conservative party of sanity rose and replaced this mess.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by LordMortis » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:22 pm

Doesn't lousy fund raising just put them even more in the pockets of special interest groups. I can't speak for other states but the Chamber of Commerce and billionaires all but own Michigan media broadcast in political seasons. Not even all of them in state. And they have not given up. They message, they take, and then they pivot. I need look no further than Amash who was a key figure in building the monstrosity we have now, ousted by the same billionaires who placed him.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Pyperkub » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:33 pm

malchior wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:21 am
I threw this into the deathwatch thread as well because the story had some legs for several reasons. I agree it is part Tulsi looking like the Jill Stein of this election. However, a big part of it is that they still haven't learned the lessons of 2016 yet. Additionally, they were lazy and didn't check primary sources; overarching all of it is the appearance if not the truth that they are overwhelmed competing with social media and are missing easy things. 2020 is going to be messy and we need them to be better.
I don't see Tulsi as as much an issue, because none of the Democratic candidates have had the decades of smears spreading mistrust. The disinformation campaigns are definitely ramping up, but they probably won't have the same effect as the Hillary-hate did because it had so much time to become the narrative.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Drazzil » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:24 pm

Holman wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:41 am
gilraen wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:35 am
or has plans for a cushy Fox News contributor job.
I think she already has one.

WTF?!
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by hepcat » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:27 pm

Putin must have sent down an order to his agents to help put the kibosh on anything that could hurt his golden goose.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Drazzil » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:50 am

:naughty:
hepcat wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:27 pm
Putin must have sent down an order to his agents to help put the kibosh on anything that could hurt his golden goose.
I wonder if the Hillary "Russians grooming Tulsi" comment to the NYT misprint wasen't an on purpose thing. You know Hillary really says Russians but NYT doesen't have the clout to print it without other sources and Hillary and NYT walk it back a bit. Thats a hell of a mistake to make. There's a HUGE difference between "Russians" and "Republicans" (at least in Theory)

Gabbard's appearance on Fox news makes me wonder...
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:53 am

Drazzil wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:50 am
You know Hillary really says Russians but NYT doesen't have the clout to print it without other sources and Hillary and NYT walk it back a bit.
You know that you could go listen to the original podcast yourself and hear her point yourself which wasn't about Russians or Republicans grooming her at all? Right?
Thats a hell of a mistake to make. There's a HUGE difference between "Russians" and "Republicans" (at least in Theory)
It wasn't a misprint either. People on the right were making a fuss and someone was too lazy to verify the facts and went along with the noise. If it was you or me, it would be an ordinary understandable mistake considering it is plausible. However, this was the New York Times and they are supposed to better than that. It is in the end another example of their propensity to broadcast right-leaning misinformation without validating its truthfulness. They have done it over and over. The irony of Trump complaining about #fakenews since when they do it...it mostly favors the right.
Gabbard's appearance on Fox news makes me wonder...
This is *entirely* unsurprising. She has acted ridiculously now and in the past and blew away her district support. She was almost certain to be voted out. She alienated everybody and ran over to whoever would listen to her bullshit. You can look back over her career and see her wildly shifting positions and easily realize that no one knows what she stands for because she doesn't stand for anything.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:00 am

Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:33 pm
I don't see Tulsi as as much an issue, because none of the Democratic candidates have had the decades of smears spreading mistrust. The disinformation campaigns are definitely ramping up, but they probably won't have the same effect as the Hillary-hate did because it had so much time to become the narrative.
I agree. As the Fox News appearance cements she may be cast in a role as 'convenient foil dem dissent #1' so the "blessed" on the right can justify burying their heads in the sand. The danger in the disinformation campaigns will come into focus once we get a sense of the lines Trump's soldiers are willing to cross from *within* the government.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:26 am



I guess the good thing is if she does run third party, she might actually pull in more votes from the right?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:31 am

Yeah it's not totally clear whether Gabbard running third party would help or hurt Trump. You'd also want to know something about the geographic distribution of Gabbard's support (are there any states where she draws disproportionate support).

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:00 pm

The question asks about the "Preferred Democratic Nominee," not the eventual president. I imagine Republicans approving of Gabbard simply like her attacking Hillary.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Drazzil » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:23 pm

malchior wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:53 am
Drazzil wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:50 am
You know Hillary really says Russians but NYT doesen't have the clout to print it without other sources and Hillary and NYT walk it back a bit.
You know that you could go listen to the original podcast yourself and hear her point yourself which wasn't about Russians or Republicans grooming her at all? Right?
Thats a hell of a mistake to make. There's a HUGE difference between "Russians" and "Republicans" (at least in Theory)
It wasn't a misprint either. People on the right were making a fuss and someone was too lazy to verify the facts and went along with the noise. If it was you or me, it would be an ordinary understandable mistake considering it is plausible. However, this was the New York Times and they are supposed to better than that. It is in the end another example of their propensity to broadcast right-leaning misinformation without validating its truthfulness. They have done it over and over. The irony of Trump complaining about #fakenews since when they do it...it mostly favors the right.
Gabbard's appearance on Fox news makes me wonder...
This is *entirely* unsurprising. She has acted ridiculously now and in the past and blew away her district support. She was almost certain to be voted out. She alienated everybody and ran over to whoever would listen to her bullshit. You can look back over her career and see her wildly shifting positions and easily realize that no one knows what she stands for because she doesn't stand for anything.
Thanks for the explination.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Unagi » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:28 pm

cringe

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Exodor » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:00 pm

Beto is out
Former Texas congressman Beto O'Rourke announced Friday that he is ending his 2020 presidential campaign, hours ahead of a marquee dinner in Iowa.

O'Rourke told supporters in an email that he will not run for office next year. That means he will also not become a Senate candidate in Texas, despite pleas from some Democrats for him to take on Republican Sen. John Cornyn.
"Though it is difficult to accept, it is clear to me now that this campaign does not have the means to move forward successfully," O'Rourke said in a statement.
Hopefully some of the other bottom-dwellers will take the cue and bow out soon as well.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:55 pm

I guess he's angling for Secretary of Taking Guns Away.

Has anyone else noticed that you scarcely hear a peep out of the Dem candidates since impeachment heated up? I see Bernie and Warren in my facebook feed daily, but nobody's making headlines.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:55 pm

Good. And if he couldn’t beat Cruz, Cornyn + The Machine would have wiped the floor with him.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Enough » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:52 pm

Not sure what the heck just happened but a native plant society I am involved with had a notification on FB that they are hosting a video watching party and so curious I clicked it. And it was a freakin' Trump Rally. Nobody at the org actually started this, the one who got there before me said she got a link on a PBS blog to join and then it started. I think someone clearly hacked the group's account or the video watching party feature. I wonder if this is a new dirty deed trick we will be seeing more of, or just a random brain fart from whoever got it going....
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Zarathud » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:51 pm

No they’re going to get dirty. If Trump doesn’t get re-elected, there will be hell to pay.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:53 pm

Kraken wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:55 pm
Has anyone else noticed that you scarcely hear a peep out of the Dem candidates since impeachment heated up? I see Bernie and Warren in my facebook feed daily, but nobody's making headlines.
We've entered the actual pre-primary. Everyone serious is on the ground in Iowa, where it's a four-way between Warren/Sanders/Pete/Biden, with the others fighting for the edges.

The interesting story is this:

1) Pete has gained significantly in Iowa due to *huge* television ad buys,
2) Biden is struggling in Iowa and seems to be giving it up in favor of a South-Carolina-plus-Super-Tuesday (later primary) strategy,
3) Bernie is holding his position or maybe bumping up a little,
4) Warren is #1 in Iowa despite not spending a *single dime* on television ads.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:18 pm

Nancy Pelosi Is Worried 2020 Candidates Are on Wrong Track
“What works in San Francisco does not necessarily work in Michigan,” Pelosi said at a roundtable of Bloomberg News reporters and editors on Friday. “What works in Michigan works in San Francisco — talking about workers’ rights and sharing prosperity.”

“Remember November,” she said. “You must win the Electoral College.”
“Protect the Affordable Care Act — I think that’s the path to health care for all Americans. Medicare For All has its complications,” Pelosi said, adding that “the Affordable Care Act is a better benefit than Medicare.”
Pelosi also expressed worries about voters’ reactions to the Green New Deal, which Sanders and Warren also support, that calls for radical, rapid reductions in carbon emissions. “There’s very strong opposition on the labor side to the Green New Deal because it’s like 10 years, no more fossil fuel. Really?” she said.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken » Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:03 pm

Yes, Nancy: really. Or haven't you noticed that your state is burning?


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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by YellowKing » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:19 pm

I think Nancy's speaking realistically. There's no way in hell we're going to be off all fossil fuels in 10 years.

I'm all for the lofty goals of AOC and others, but I also live in the real world where we can't agree over whether to keep children in cages, much less how to limit carbon emissions.

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