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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:45 pm
by malchior
El Guapo wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:45 pm
FWIW the Globe also did a pretty thorough debunking of the claim that she advanced her career by claiming Native American heritage.
I like the idea that claiming native american heritage provides a quantifiable advantage for anything at all in this country. It'd be nice if that was the case.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:16 pm
by Holman
noxiousdog wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:41 pm
She's running for president of the United States. We aren't measuring the veracity of her claims for truth. We're contemplating character and whether we like her or not.

I'm telling you that I think it has as much to do with her using situations to her advantage and then doubling down when it's clearly irrelevant as it does with her being a woman.

I give her the giant rolley eyes way more than I do Biden. I'm completely dismissive of Sanders so can't do a fair comparison.
Name the five worst things you think about her, then list Trump's top ten best qualities. Compare.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:33 pm
by Kraken
Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:36 pm
Michael Bloomberg is filing to enter the Democratic primary.

This should be a shitshow of huge and unwanted proportions.

[Initially I overreacted upon seeing wording elsewhere that Bloomberg was preparing a third-party run.]
Bloomberg sees Biden foundering and thinks he can play the white knight for the moderates. Joe's failing at fundraising and Bloomberg doesn't have to do that. At a time when income inequality is a top issue, a 77-year-old billionaire centrist is the last thing the party needs. Maybe if Bloomberg knocks Biden out of the running it will open a surge path for Buttigieg or another second-tier candidate.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:45 pm
by Drazzil
Kraken wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:33 pm
Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:36 pm
Michael Bloomberg is filing to enter the Democratic primary.

This should be a shitshow of huge and unwanted proportions.

[Initially I overreacted upon seeing wording elsewhere that Bloomberg was preparing a third-party run.]
Bloomberg sees Biden foundering and thinks he can play the white knight for the moderates. Joe's failing at fundraising and Bloomberg doesn't have to do that. At a time when income inequality is a top issue, a 77-year-old billionaire centrist is the last thing the party needs. Maybe if Bloomberg knocks Biden out of the running it will open a surge path for Buttigieg or another second-tier candidate.
Corporations are good people valued customers!

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:45 pm
by Holman
Kraken wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:33 pm
Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:36 pm
Michael Bloomberg is filing to enter the Democratic primary.

This should be a shitshow of huge and unwanted proportions.

[Initially I overreacted upon seeing wording elsewhere that Bloomberg was preparing a third-party run.]
Bloomberg sees Biden foundering and thinks he can play the white knight for the moderates. Joe's failing at fundraising and Bloomberg doesn't have to do that. At a time when income inequality is a top issue, a 77-year-old billionaire centrist is the last thing the party needs. Maybe if Bloomberg knocks Biden out of the running it will open a surge path for Buttigieg or another second-tier candidate.
Biden is so popular (and Bloomberg so Meh) that Bloomberg can't possibly think he's going to knock Biden out. The more likely theory is that he has reason to think Biden will be exiting the race.

Even so, now that Pete has shifted from the progressive to the centrist lane, Bloomberg can't really believe that he'll somehow inherit Biden's supporters by default.

I really suspect that we just have a very elderly MoneyPerson deciding that he has one last chance to give his life meaning.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:53 pm
by Defiant
Bloomberg would have almost no shot of winning the nomination at this point (although if he did manage to get it, he would do better against Trump than a lot of the other candidates). My guess is he's getting in to attack Sanders and Warren.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:02 pm
by Defiant
Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:45 pm


I really suspect that we just have a very elderly MoneyPerson deciding that he has one last chance to give his life meaning.
I would think his Beyond Carbon campaign to close coal fire plants that has already helped close down half the coal plants (and plans to help close down the remaining ones) has already given "his life meaning".

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:48 pm
by Holman
Defiant wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:02 pm
Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:45 pm


I really suspect that we just have a very elderly MoneyPerson deciding that he has one last chance to give his life meaning.
I would think his Beyond Carbon campaign to close coal fire plants that has already helped close down half the coal plants (and plans to help close down the remaining ones) has already given "his life meaning".
If that's his meaningful issue, shouldn't he be pouring resources into it and other green initiatives rather than into a farcical vanity campaign for the White House?

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:14 pm
by Defiant
Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:48 pm

If that's his meaningful issue, shouldn't he be pouring resources into it and other green initiatives rather than into a farcical vanity campaign for the White House?
He recently donated a half a billion to it, so I think it's good (especially in comparison to the "farcical" GND). And I don't think this is a vanity campaign (he wouldn't have waited so long if that were the case), but an issue one, to try to drive the campaign away from the far left that some have been pushing it for.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:33 pm
by Holman
Defiant wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:14 pm
Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:48 pm

If that's his meaningful issue, shouldn't he be pouring resources into it and other green initiatives rather than into a farcical vanity campaign for the White House?
He recently donated a half a billion to it, so I think it's good. And I don't think this is a vanity campaign (he wouldn't have waited so long if that were the case), but an issue one, to try to drive the campaign away from the far left that some have been pushing it for.
Bloomsberg is worth 53 billion dollars. Half a billion (less than 1% of his exploitable wealth) is of course a lot of money, but it's literally no burden on his life at all. If he were truly a climate crusader, he would do a *lot* more. So why isn't he? What's he doing with the rest of his money?

I'm disgusted with being expected to applaud billionaires for being billionaires, even when they toss the rest of the world a few crumbs. We're in too deep for that.

Trump has made the next election a Rubicon for outright Russian-style oligarchy. Billionaires trying to game the Democratic resistance can sit the fuck down.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:36 pm
by Daehawk
I must be alone in not even being able to imagine a President named Buttigieg . lol. Im a kid I know.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:45 pm
by Defiant
When government has been bumbling on the issue for decades and only seems to be getting worse with the joke of a "green new deal", yes, I will applaud anyone that actually gets shit done on it, regardless of how much resources it takes them to do it.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:46 pm
by El Guapo
Never underestimate the delusionality of rich people thinking that they can do anything. I think he really thinks that he has a real shot and that there's real demand for him in this race.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:47 pm
by El Guapo
I will say that if nothing else, Bloomberg has prompted me to look up what the hell happened with Howard Schultz's run. Apparently he dropped out in September.

So that's good, at least.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:42 am
by noxiousdog
Holman wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:16 pm
noxiousdog wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:41 pm
She's running for president of the United States. We aren't measuring the veracity of her claims for truth. We're contemplating character and whether we like her or not.

I'm telling you that I think it has as much to do with her using situations to her advantage and then doubling down when it's clearly irrelevant as it does with her being a woman.

I give her the giant rolley eyes way more than I do Biden. I'm completely dismissive of Sanders so can't do a fair comparison.
Name the five worst things you think about her, then list Trump's top ten best qualities. Compare.
The discussion is Warren vs. Sanders vs. Biden. I'd even vote for Sanders over Trump and he's crazy. Hell, I'd vote Ron Paul over Trump and he's crazier.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:26 am
by Blackhawk
I would vote for Nixon over Trump.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:36 pm
by Jaymann
I would vote for Reagan over Trump.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:59 pm
by Blackhawk
Fine. Nixon with Reagan as VP, with a guarantee of James Buchanan as Chief of Staff and Warren G. Harding as Secretary of State.

I'd still vote for it.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:09 pm
by Defiant
I would vote for Zombie Nixon or Zombie Reagan against Trump, even as they were chasing me to try to eat my brains.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:38 pm
by Exodor
I'd vote for Cheney over Trump and I think Cheney is as close to evil as we've seen in the White House.

He's evil but he's not insane.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:25 pm
by Holman
Defiant wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:45 pm
When government has been bumbling on the issue for decades and only seems to be getting worse with the joke of a "green new deal", yes, I will applaud anyone that actually gets shit done on it, regardless of how much resources it takes them to do it.
Charity is good, but it can't change systems. Only government can do that.

The crisis is way beyond donations. It requires laws and regulations and strenuous political will. It requires a New Deal and a Marshall Plan and an Apollo Program all put together.

I'm pretty sure Bloomberg is running because he thinks Warren or Bernie or even Harris has a shot at weakening Wall Street's political power. If he's running for any other reason, he's not making it clear.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:55 pm
by hepcat
Joe Biden is told by a reporter that Trump is considering attending Russia’s Victory Day parade at Putin’s personal invitation. His reaction is fantastic. This should be on a constant loop.

:lol:

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:58 pm
by YellowKing
Sleepy Joe can't understand a simple question. Obvious DEMINSIA. SAD!

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:46 pm
by Daehawk
Hehe I just cant watch Warren talk. I swear if you tied the woman's hands behind her back she'd be mute.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:22 pm
by Drazzil
Blackhawk wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:59 pm
Fine. Nixon with Reagan as VP, with a guarantee of James Buchanan as Chief of Staff and Warren G. Harding as Secretary of State.

I'd still vote for it.
That ticket would be awesome. Nixon was far smarter then people give him credit for, substantially to the left of Clinton and could run rings around the Ivy Leauge shitheads he'd be running against.

PS: With Nixon running things the Ol Gipper would be a perennial VP. A good thing.

Trot him out to explain to John Q why things needed to be done every so often and thats it.

Buchannion as secretary of state. I'm going to switch things a bit.

Buchannion was secretary of State when we won the War with Mexico and annexed all that land. Strong on southern border issues! Check!

Warren Harding as Chief of staff? Yeah I can see it. He was well liked and knew how to assemble a team. I doubt Tricky dick would give him a very long leash. So... No harm done.

Whew!

Yes. I think I would vote for Blackhawk's Amended team above a Biden for sure. I'm pretty sure Trump would get the Epestien treatment in Nixon's America. I don't know why but I'm comfortable with that.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:28 pm
by Drazzil
Exodor wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:38 pm
I'd vote for Cheney over Trump and I think Cheney is as close to evil as we've seen in the White House.

He's evil but he's not insane.
Can Cheney be on team Nixon as AG? Nixon could probabally use him to gather every bit of info (regardless of how gained) and I have the distinct feeling he (applied properly) would be terrifyingly good at getting to the bottom of Trump's swamp.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:09 pm
by Holman
Daehawk wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:46 pm
Hehe I just cant watch Warren talk. I swear if you tied the woman's hands behind her back she'd be mute.
If you read transcripts, you see that she speaks in complete sentences proceeding in logical steps. She makes verbal and logical sense in ways that Republicans barely even attempt these days.

Don't be a victim of TV.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:29 am
by Holman
Nikki Haley is suddenly out with a book that goes all-in for Trump.



She has played it so carefully up to now. Hitching her reputation to Trump on the eve of impeachment and a tough election is the riskiest thing she could do.

Things could get interesting. I kind of suspect that Mike Pence fights dirty.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:59 am
by El Guapo
Yeah, the Haley thing is weird. The best way to explain it is as a play to be the 2020 VP pick. Could easily see Trump saying to her "look, if you want any shot at being VP, you have to come out in full support of me."

The only other explanation is a long-term bet that Trump is the GOP future.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:57 pm
by Isgrimnur
WaPo
Former South Carolina governor Mark Sanford ended his presidential primary challenge to President Trump on Tuesday, blaming the impeachment drama in Washington for crowding out a discussion of policy issues.

Sanford, who launched his protest campaign two months ago, announced his decision during a news conference in New Hampshire. He had been planning to file in the early-primary state Friday.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:04 pm
by Daehawk
I vote brain damage on darling Nikki.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:27 pm
by Holman
El Guapo wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:59 am
Yeah, the Haley thing is weird. The best way to explain it is as a play to be the 2020 VP pick. Could easily see Trump saying to her "look, if you want any shot at being VP, you have to come out in full support of me."

The only other explanation is a long-term bet that Trump is the GOP future.
It's a historically dramatic choice.

Haley could easily position herself for a 2024 Romney/Haley or even Haley/Whoever run if Trump loses in 2020. Ostentatiously throwing Tillerson and Kelly under the bus (as she does in her book, claiming they tried to enlist her to mitigate Trump's excesses) is crossing a Rubicon. It's hard to believe that she would buy into Trump so completely right now unless the potential gains were enormous.

I think this puts the odds that Pence is being dumped very high. Either that, or he knows things and Trump is putting him on notice that the impeachment crisis requires his absolute loyalty.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:11 pm
by El Guapo
Holman wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:27 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:59 am
Yeah, the Haley thing is weird. The best way to explain it is as a play to be the 2020 VP pick. Could easily see Trump saying to her "look, if you want any shot at being VP, you have to come out in full support of me."

The only other explanation is a long-term bet that Trump is the GOP future.
It's a historically dramatic choice.

Haley could easily position herself for a 2024 Romney/Haley or even Haley/Whoever run if Trump loses in 2020. Ostentatiously throwing Tillerson and Kelly under the bus (as she does in her book, claiming they tried to enlist her to mitigate Trump's excesses) is crossing a Rubicon. It's hard to believe that she would buy into Trump so completely right now unless the potential gains were enormous.

I think this puts the odds that Pence is being dumped very high. Either that, or he knows things and Trump is putting him on notice that the impeachment crisis requires his absolute loyalty.
Yeah, this combined with Haley's weird "JUST WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT I AM DEFINITELY *NOT* REPLACING PENCE" tweet that came out of nowhere raises the odds of that considerably.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:16 am
by Kurth
So, my old yahoo email address is kind of like a garbage dump where all my junk mail goes (at least that's the plan). I skim through the hundreds of emails I get in there every morning deleting 98% of them without reading. That includes most of the political fundraising emails I get from the DNC, Act Blue, Change.org, and all the other political groups I've felt obliged at one time or another to donate to.

But today I saw an email ostensibly from Pete Buttigieg, and that caught my eye. Within the current field of Democrats, I'm a pretty big Mayor Pete fan, and I didn't delete this one right away and actually opened it up thinking that I may make a modest donation on behalf of the one Democratic 2020 candidate I genuinely like. Then I read the first paragraph:

Image

WTF??? "We will not recognize it if he gets reelected." Seriously, Mayor Pete? You just sent that out? WTF does that even mean? We won't recognize a Trump victory in any situation? No matter what? How can you possibly put that in a fucking email and send it out? Also, how is this not news-worthy? It's so completely and totally fucked up.

I can't believe I'm saying this (and I reserve the right to walk it back), but I can claim dual citizenship, and right now, the UK (even with the clown prince, Boris Johnson, as PM) isn't looking so bad to me.

I just cannot stand the unending drive of our political system to push candidates to the fringes. One of the main reasons I've liked Buttigieg so far is that he seemed to resist that push. He seemed to be genuinely and steadfastly a moderate democrat. And now he's throwing grenades like this out in a mass email.

We're all so fucking hosed.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:30 am
by NickAragua
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the "it" is referring to the country, rather than the election results.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:38 am
by Kraken
NickAragua wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:30 am
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the "it" is referring to the country, rather than the election results.
That makes sense. Poorly worded, if so. Needs to hire me.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:19 am
by El Guapo
NickAragua wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:30 am
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the "it" is referring to the country, rather than the election results.
Yes, this is clearly correct. The subject of the first sentence is "the country". "It" thus refers back to the subject of the first sentence, e.g., "the country".

Could be better worded, but it's grammatically correct and not the worst written thing I've read (especially considering it's campaign spam).

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:27 am
by Defiant
El Guapo wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:19 am

Yes, this is clearly correct. The subject of the first sentence is "the country". "It" thus refers back to the subject of the first sentence, e.g., "the country".
I would think "it" could also refer to the scenario of Trump getting reelected ("he gets reelected"), although it seems even more awkward that way.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:39 am
by TheMix
NickAragua wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:30 am
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the "it" is referring to the country, rather than the election results.
This is how I read it. I had to go back and reread it to figure out the outrage.

Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:46 am
by noxiousdog
That doesn't make any sense. "We will not recognize the country if he gets re-elected." The following sentence is about him holding on to power.