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Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

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El Guapo
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo »

noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:46 am
That doesn't make any sense. "We will not recognize the country if he gets re-elected." The following sentence is about him holding on to power.
Why wouldn't that make sense? "I don't / won't recognize this country" is a fairly commonly expressed sentiment. The point is that four more years of Trump would irrevocably change America. The next part is about how hard Trump will fight to stay in power, mainly because this is a political fundraising e-mail, and "man, it's going to be so easy to beat Trump in 2020" is a poor message for raising donations.

Though I guess I'm not 100% sure who you are disagreeing with here.
Last edited by El Guapo on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by noxiousdog »

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:51 am
noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:46 am
That doesn't make any sense. "We will not recognize the country if he gets re-elected." The following sentence is about him holding on to power.
Why wouldn't that make sense? "I don't / won't recognize this country" is a fairly commonly expressed sentiment. The point is that four more years of Trump would irrevocably change America. The next part is about how hard Trump will fight to stay in power, mainly because this is a political fundraising e-mail, and "man, it's going to be so easy to beat Trump in 2020" is a poor message for raising donations.

Though I guess I'm not 100% sure who you are disagreeing with here.
That's a very generous interpretation. At best it's designed to be very ambiguous.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman »

noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:04 am
That's a very generous interpretation. At best it's designed to be very ambiguous.
Pete is the last person in the race I'd expect to deny the legitimacy of an election, and the last I'd expect to sneakily imply that supporters shouldn't either. His brand is 100% Boy Scout.

This is just a poorly worded message from a staffer.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by hepcat »

TheMix wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:39 am
NickAragua wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:30 am
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the "it" is referring to the country, rather than the election results.
This is how I read it. I had to go back and reread it to figure out the outrage.
Ditto. It was quite clear to me that he wasn't demanding an armed coup if Trump was re-elected. I mean, now armed with the knowledge that some folks DID see that in the message, I guess I can see why they might want to read it that way. But to me, it seems like you have to be a little biased against Buttigeig to see that. :?
El Guapo wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:51 am
noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:46 am
That doesn't make any sense. "We will not recognize the country if he gets re-elected." The following sentence is about him holding on to power.
Why wouldn't that make sense? "I don't / won't recognize this country" is a fairly commonly expressed sentiment. The point is that four more years of Trump would irrevocably change America. The next part is about how hard Trump will fight to stay in power, mainly because this is a political fundraising e-mail, and "man, it's going to be so easy to beat Trump in 2020" is a poor message for raising donations.

Though I guess I'm not 100% sure who you are disagreeing with here.
I see that same sentiment expressed a lot...and using those same words.
Last edited by hepcat on Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kurth »

Holman wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:15 am
noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:04 am
That's a very generous interpretation. At best it's designed to be very ambiguous.
Pete is the last person in the race I'd expect to deny the legitimacy of an election, and the last I'd expect to sneakily imply that supporters shouldn't either. His brand is 100% Boy Scout.

This is just a poorly worded message from a staffer.
This is why I was so shocked when I read that last night. But rereading this morning, I agree that it's just a really poorly worded piece of campaign spam. Sorry for the outrage. It was late and possibly fueled by a few too many drinks.

Also, it looks like this phrase "we will not recognize it . . . " is becoming part of Pete's stump speech. He's delivered a couple of times, including recently in Iowa, and with more context, I think it makes clear he is referring to not recognizing the country if Trump gets reelected rather than not recognizing the results of the election:
"I am asking you to picture that first day the sun comes up in this country and Donald Trump is no longer the President of the United States. A happy thought for sure," Buttigieg said. "But what comes next?"

"This country cannot afford another four years of Donald Trump. We will not recognize it if he gets reelected."
Still, it's hard for me to believe that whoever drafted that fundraising spam wasn't purposefully trying to get out a different message.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Blackhawk »

It seemed pretty clear to me. It's like saying, "Our home town is going through changes. We won't be able to recognize it if this keeps up."
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

Kurth wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:27 am
Also, it looks like this phrase "we will not recognize it . . . " is becoming part of Pete's stump speech. He's delivered a couple of times, including recently in Iowa, and with more context, I think it makes clear he is referring to not recognizing the country if Trump gets reelected rather than not recognizing the results of the election:
"I am asking you to picture that first day the sun comes up in this country and Donald Trump is no longer the President of the United States. A happy thought for sure," Buttigieg said. "But what comes next?"

"This country cannot afford another four years of Donald Trump. We will not recognize it if he gets reelected."
Still, it's hard for me to believe that whoever drafted that fundraising spam wasn't purposefully trying to get out a different message.
Yeah social media/email outreach staffers are told to include key phrases but they are essentially interns. *If* this blows up I expect the only fix is to get better proofreaders. :)

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by stessier »

The first time I read it, I couldn't even see what you were complaining about. It was clear he was referring to not recognizing the country. I can see what you mean after studying it, but it wasn't the first thing I saw.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Blackhawk wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:27 am
It seemed pretty clear to me. It's like saying, "Our home town is going through changes. We won't be able to recognize it if this keeps up."
Before you can say 'gypsy scum' we will be knee deep in dog muck, thieving kids and crusty jugglers.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

With the true or not story that Biden is fading fast in Iowa we see that the clown car just keeps getting more clown-y.


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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Holman »

malchior wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:52 am
With the true or not story that Biden is fading fast in Iowa we see that the clown car just keeps getting more clown-y.

That's not the real Jake Tapper. This is apparently a parody account.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Isgrimnur »

D-OH!

:D

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

Phew - this was spreading fast! Sad that it is believable. :)

The source of the tweet got suspended by Twitter - probably for impersonating Jake.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:12 pm
Phew - this was spreading fast! Sad that it is believable. :)

The source of the tweet got suspended by Twitter - probably for impersonating Jake.
What was the fake tweet saying, out of curiosity? Something about a new candidate?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Yes. Senator Sherrod Brown, D-OH.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo »

Ah. That is one entrant that would be both mildly shocking (at this point) and actually potentially make a significant impact.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Drazzil »

El Guapo wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:38 pm
Ah. That is one entrant that would be both mildly shocking (at this point) and actually potentially make a significant impact.
Right?
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant »

Discouraging to listen to a recent 538 podcast and hear the consensus that, given Trump's strength in the swing states relative to the other states, that we could potentially see Trump lose the popular vote by as much as 5% and still manage to win the electoral college.

(Also, greater turnout might hurt Democrats in the midwest, although help them in the southeast)

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

It isn't just discouraging. It is a nightmare scenario for our country. The 3rd time that a President was elected by the minority in 5 elections. Both Presidents ranking among the worst Presidents in our history. The legitimacy of the Presidency, Supreme Court, and possibly the Senate will be undermined as enforcing a tyranny of the minority on the populace. It might end up causing fractures that'll split the country apart long-term.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by YellowKing »

At this point I'm ready for the fucking split.

Let the deplorables go set up their own conspiracy addled shit show nation and let people who have some goddamn common sense live our lives in peace.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken »

We're at the beginning of impeachment; Democrats haven't chosen their nominee yet; the election is a year away. It's a little early to be clutching our pearls about four more years of Trump Yes, it's depressing that that's even within the realm of possibility...but there's lots of shit going down right now -- we can barely even imagine how much more is coming our way in the next year. For example, when the Senate acquits, Trump will be officially untouchable. He can do anything he wants. Who knows what that will be, and how voters will react?

It's not too soon to start thinking about 2020, but it's too early for the post mortem.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by LordMortis »

YellowKing wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:24 pm
At this point I'm ready for the fucking split.

Let the deplorables go set up their own conspiracy addled shit show nation and let people who have some goddamn common sense live our lives in peace.
I dream of it being that easy.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by noxiousdog »

LordMortis wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:07 am
YellowKing wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:24 pm
At this point I'm ready for the fucking split.

Let the deplorables go set up their own conspiracy addled shit show nation and let people who have some goddamn common sense live our lives in peace.
I dream of it being that easy.
Even the reddest states like Kentucky are split 57/43 and that's only if you assume all the independents go right.

Fixing this nonsense is about getting people to vote. And while voter suppression techniques are being utilized, it doesn't make up for the fact that only 40% of under 30 year olds turned out to vote in 2016.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Jeff V »

Since voter participation favors the donkeys, they ought to be encouraging local businesses to provide discounts, happy hour extras and the like for those bearing "I Voted" stickers on election day. This would cost them very little, and could engage some of the apathetic voters.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

It is a problem that is in a negative feedback loop. Most people increasingly think their vote doesn't matter. And the way we cover elections or their outcomes is part of it. GOTV is important still but there is little reason to think it will get better without inspirational leaders and sorry to say none of these folks fit that bill.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Defiant »

Jeff V wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:03 pm
Since voter participation favors the donkeys,
Really depends on the state.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kraken »

We should all encourage Republicans to vote on Nov. 4.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Jeff V »

Kraken wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:29 pm
We should all encourage Republicans to vote on Nov. 4.
Or the Dems could just sponsor a day-long PBR drinking competition in every elephant city across the country. The rules would state they must be seated at the bar no later than 6 am and cannot leave except via ambulance until 7 pm. The winner gets an all-expense paid trip to Ken Ham's Noah's Ark debacle.

This would certainly be a better use of their $$$ than trying to run informative commercials that attempt to educate Trump's beloved uneducated.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Isgrimnur »

ars technica
Former US Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley sent confidential material over a network reserved only for unclassified material because she forgot her password for classified communications, The Daily Beast reported.

The event happened on July 4 and July 5, 2017, after North Korea had tested an intercontinental ballistic missile capable of hitting Alaska. As she and her staff scrambled to draft a statement responding to the test, Haley reportedly used her BlackBerry 10 to trade comments over the OpenNet, a State Department network for communicating sensitive, but not classified, information.

“Can’t find my password,” she wrote on July 5. Other messages instructed staff to make changes to the preliminary statement versions they had drafted.

The revelation was disclosed in emails watchdog organization American Oversight obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.
...
It’s arguable that the OpenNet is more secure than a private email address. Still, there’s a reason the State Department system isn’t suitable for transmitting classified material. Last year, Politico reported that the State Department’s unclassified email system suffered a breach that exposed the personal information of a small number of employees.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

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:grund:

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kurth »

Yep. The way forward to better medical care is for the government to “snatch their patent.” That’s just great.

Real genius-level progressive stuff there.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Zarathud »

Americans now love Presidents who grab 'em by the pussy patent.

And I hear if you're President, you can't get prosecuted for it.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by malchior »

The only thing saving her is that I don't think many people will get that this is amounting to nationalizing private property. Patent / IP concerns still are sort of an obscure concept to many people. Smart moderates though have to be like 'enough with this populist bullshit Dems' - we need to beat Trump - not kick off the great revolution.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Kurth »

malchior wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:04 pm
The only thing saving her is that I don't think many people will get that this is amounting to nationalizing private property. Patent / IP concerns still are sort of an obscure concept to many people. Smart moderates though have to be like 'enough with this populist bullshit Dems' - we need to beat Trump - not kick off the great revolution.
I think you're wrong about people not understanding the importance of IP as a real property right, but I'm admittedly a little biased on that front as an IP attorney.

But as far as the rest of this goes, yes. 100% yes! I really, really hate Trump, but I also really hate this populist bullshit from the left and just want it to stop ASAP.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by El Guapo »

Kurth wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:29 am
malchior wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:04 pm
The only thing saving her is that I don't think many people will get that this is amounting to nationalizing private property. Patent / IP concerns still are sort of an obscure concept to many people. Smart moderates though have to be like 'enough with this populist bullshit Dems' - we need to beat Trump - not kick off the great revolution.
I think you're wrong about people not understanding the importance of IP as a real property right, but I'm admittedly a little biased on that front as an IP attorney.

But as far as the rest of this goes, yes. 100% yes! I really, really hate Trump, but I also really hate this populist bullshit from the left and just want it to stop ASAP.
If it helps, I think Harris has already blown her shot (at least as far as 2020 goes). Not too late for her to mount a comeback, especially if one of the leaders falters, but I'd put her chances behind Klobuchar and maybe even Booker at this point.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by pr0ner »

It's always good to see both sides are up for trampling on Constitutional rights whenever it suits their policy goals.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by Max Peck »

Well, there have always people on all sides with fringe views, but I'm not sure that you can point to Harris on this issue and say that "both sides" have no respect for the Constitution any more than you can point to Gabbard and say that "both sides" are abject Putin-fellating russophiles.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020?

Post by pr0ner »

Max Peck wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:50 am
Well, there have always people on all sides with fringe views, but I'm not sure that you can point to Harris on this issue and say that "both sides" have no respect for the Constitution any more than you can point to Gabbard and say that "both sides" are abject Putin-fellating russophiles.
Buttigieg has espoused the same views.
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