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Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Kraken »

Good luck getting on ballots.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by LordMortis »

I thought Kanye was Trump supporter? What changed?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Holman »

LordMortis wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:10 am
I thought Kanye was Trump supporter? What changed?
He woke up one day and needed more attention.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by malchior »

Holman wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:13 am
LordMortis wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:10 am
I thought Kanye was Trump supporter? What changed?
He woke up one day and needed more attention.
That and/or he is off his meds. Kanye is at his best not the most sane person.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by pr0ner »

It's fitting that Elon Musk immediately responded to Kanye's tweet to say Kanye has Musk's full support.
Hodor.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by malchior »

A coalition of the Twitter attention seekers against the Twitter boss. Get out the popcorn?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Or, if one is more conspiracy minded, one might think that Kanye is running to help his bestie Trump by drawing away youth support from Biden.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Remus West »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:11 am
Or, if one is more conspiracy minded, one might think that Kanye is running to help his bestie Trump by drawing away youth support from Biden.
Youth? How about the number of Black votes he will garner. Or more likely suppress when he can not get on the ballot and they stay home enraged they can not vote for him?
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Skinypupy »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:11 am
Or, if one is more conspiracy minded, one might think that Kanye is running to help his bestie Trump by drawing away youth support from Biden.
While I doubt it will ultimately come to anything, this seems like the far more likely explanation. It’s 2020 though, so I’m not ruling anything out.

Does he have a new album coming out soon or something?
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Defiant »

Remus West wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:36 am
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:11 am
Or, if one is more conspiracy minded, one might think that Kanye is running to help his bestie Trump by drawing away youth support from Biden.
Youth? How about the number of Black votes he will garner. Or more likely suppress when he can not get on the ballot and they stay home enraged they can not vote for him?
Here's a poll of West from a couple of years ago. His favorability then among whites (24%) was higher than than among non-white voters (20%) and much higher among Republicans (35%) and Conservatives (32%) than Democrats (12%) and Liberals (13%)

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by hepcat »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:32 pm
Just in case you weren’t thrilled with Trump or Biden, you now have a third option:



Spoiler:
We must now realize the promise of America by trusting God, unifying our vision and building our future. I am running for president of the United States Image! #2020VISION
Well...a distant 138th option. Right behind the write in options for Al Bundy, the ghost of David Bowie and an artichoke that vaguely looks like Ted Danson.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Remus West »

Defiant wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:50 am
Remus West wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:36 am
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:11 am
Or, if one is more conspiracy minded, one might think that Kanye is running to help his bestie Trump by drawing away youth support from Biden.
Youth? How about the number of Black votes he will garner. Or more likely suppress when he can not get on the ballot and they stay home enraged they can not vote for him?
Here's a poll of West from a couple of years ago. His favorability then among whites (24%) was higher than than among non-white voters (20%) and much higher among Republicans (35%) and Conservatives (32%) than Democrats (12%) and Liberals (13%)
Hopefully that poll holds true today.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Skinypupy »

hepcat wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:01 pm
the ghost of David Bowie
Sold!
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Defiant »

hepcat wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:01 pm


Well...a distant 138th option. Right behind the write in options for Al Bundy, the ghost of David Bowie and an artichoke that vaguely looks like Ted Danson.
Maybe Al and the artichoke should run a joint ticket, so people can vote for Ted/Bundy?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by LordMortis »

I was going to say Stockholm syndrome my ass but the article quickly stated:
They all may not love the president, but most share his loathing for his enemies on the left, in the media, and the apostate Never Trump Republicans with a passion that engenders an alliance with the president, if not a kinship.
The piece seems to be really about sleeping with the devil and the question is whether you were a demon all along or if you woke up that way after selling your soul.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by El Guapo »

LordMortis wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:31 am
I was going to say Stockholm syndrome my ass but the article quickly stated:
They all may not love the president, but most share his loathing for his enemies on the left, in the media, and the apostate Never Trump Republicans with a passion that engenders an alliance with the president, if not a kinship.
The piece seems to be really about sleeping with the devil and the question is whether you were a demon all along or if you woke up that way after selling your soul.
Yeah, it's probably less about stockholm syndrome and more about self-interested rationalization, I suppose.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by LordMortis »

“There’s no coming back for these Lincoln Project motherfuckers, it doesn’t matter what next. They are madder at those people than [at] Trump for sure”
And this is example of why there is no coming back for the GOP. A new party needs to rise to keep the Democrats in check and the existing GOP needs to be ostracized, ignored, shut down completely, lock the doors. If there is no discussion, no room for dissension in your ranks, then you need to be disband.

They want it both ways. These consultants accept authoritarian power the way it's done, a tyranny of the minority, and then to not to be viewed as victims of not having a choice for the rot they spread. This is American shame. This is why for the first time in my life when I see "patriot", I or the Red, White, and Blue as a symbol, I feel like I am part of a problem and I loathe what I should love. As much as I hate what the GOP is doing to my nation, I let it happen because them's the rules. So rather than feeling empathy for them, I feel disgust for myself.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by El Guapo »



I don't know how many people were mistaking OAN for anything other than a propaganda network, but still...they've apparently been commissioning polls and then releasing only those that are good for Trump.

Though in that context, if you're doing that and the best you're getting is stuff like AZ+4....that's not great.

Also - just one poll, but Biden up 10 in FL (a non-OAN commissioned poll) is pretty staggering.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Octavious »

El Guapo wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:55 pm


I don't know how many people were mistaking OAN for anything other than a propaganda network, but still...they've apparently been commissioning polls and then releasing only those that are good for Trump.

Though in that context, if you're doing that and the best you're getting is stuff like AZ+4....that's not great.

Also - just one poll, but Biden up 10 in FL (a non-OAN commissioned poll) is pretty staggering.
Letting the virus run crazy through the state probably wasn't the best political move. I'm waiting for the pivot where he starts ripping the Florida Gov apart. Should be in about 2-3 weeks when the bodies start piling up.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by msteelers »

El Guapo wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:55 pm


I don't know how many people were mistaking OAN for anything other than a propaganda network, but still...they've apparently been commissioning polls and then releasing only those that are good for Trump.

Though in that context, if you're doing that and the best you're getting is stuff like AZ+4....that's not great.

Also - just one poll, but Biden up 10 in FL (a non-OAN commissioned poll) is pretty staggering.
I have a hard time buying Biden +10 here. Granted, it feels like I'm in prime Trump country. Technically my county is solidly liberal, but I only see strong support for Trump, and rarely if ever do I see large organized pushes against him. We've been going on walks through our neighborhood in the evenings, and there are a ton of Trump 2020 flags out and about.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Unagi »

Can you get a Biden flag?

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by El Guapo »

msteelers wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:00 pm
have a hard time buying Biden +10 here. Granted, it feels like I'm in prime Trump country. Technically my county is solidly liberal, but I only see strong support for Trump, and rarely if ever do I see large organized pushes against him. We've been going on walks through our neighborhood in the evenings, and there are a ton of Trump 2020 flags out and about.
The true state of the race right now is very probably not Biden +10 in FL. It's one poll, and there's natural fluctuation / margin of error. However, seeing polls like that gives one confidence that Biden has a material lead in FL right now (as, you are very very unlikely to see Biden +10 in a serious poll if the actual state of the race is Trump +5, say).

Like, right now the 538 polling average for FL is Biden +6.6.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by coopasonic »

I feel like nobody is passionate about Biden. Hell not even Biden is. Biden is 100% NOT Trump and I'm on board at that. I can't imagine any way in which he could be a worse president.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Unagi »

Basically, the bigger the +n , the larger the margin of error it can survive.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Unagi »

coopasonic wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:07 pm
I feel like nobody is passionate about Biden. Hell not even Biden is. Biden is 100% NOT Trump and I'm on board at that. I can't imagine any way in which he could be a worse president.
I'm super passionate about putting someone in place that wants to lead in a kind manner and is OK with listening to other people about things he isn't an expert at. That alone, I am SUPER passionate about, and I think Biden will fit that quite nicely.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Holman »

Unagi wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:10 pm
coopasonic wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:07 pm
I feel like nobody is passionate about Biden. Hell not even Biden is. Biden is 100% NOT Trump and I'm on board at that. I can't imagine any way in which he could be a worse president.
I'm super passionate about putting someone in place that wants to lead in a kind manner and is OK with listening to other people about things he isn't an expert at. That alone, I am SUPER passionate about, and I think Biden will fit that quite nicely.
+1

Biden-the-candidate doesn't excite me like Obama did, but replacing Trump with a solidly competent and positive administration is the most thrilling thing I can imagine happening right now.

We need to save the country. This is how we do it.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Kraken »

coopasonic wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:07 pm
I feel like nobody is passionate about Biden. Hell not even Biden is. Biden is 100% NOT Trump and I'm on board at that. I can't imagine any way in which he could be a worse president.
Let's see who his running mate is. Odds are high that she will become the first female POTUS, either by succeeding Biden if he becomes dead or incapacitated, or by becoming the anointed nominee after he finishes his term. His ego is secure enough to choose a partner who outshines him, and maybe I'll be able to get behind her. It won't be Warren, but she's the kind of choice that would draw me in.

Also: I had thought that the Dems were making a big mistake in running him, but I've changed my mind about that as trump self-destructs. Being average and (mostly) inoffensive is turning into a plus now that "average" is such a huge step up. Although trump tries to demonize him, there's just nothing scary there to latch onto.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Zaxxon »

I am extremely passionate about the Any Functioning Adult 2020 candidate, and that happens to be Biden. If it were anyone else, I'd be as passionate.

In other news, Jeff Sessions just got primaried. That makes me happy even though it also means Trump's candidate won.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Unagi »

Zaxxon wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:44 pm

In other news, Jeff Sessions just got primaried. That makes me happy even though it also means Trump's candidate won.
I said in the 'random thread' - Jeff Sessions is seriously the weakest man I've ever seen at that station of life. What a feeble last year in politics that man had. Pretty sure he looked like a loser to everyone.

if you liked Trump, you wouldn't vote for him.
if you didn't like Trump, you wouldn't vote for him.

way to nail it, dumbass.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:47 pm
Unagi wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:10 pm
coopasonic wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:07 pm
I feel like nobody is passionate about Biden. Hell not even Biden is. Biden is 100% NOT Trump and I'm on board at that. I can't imagine any way in which he could be a worse president.
I'm super passionate about putting someone in place that wants to lead in a kind manner and is OK with listening to other people about things he isn't an expert at. That alone, I am SUPER passionate about, and I think Biden will fit that quite nicely.
+1

Biden-the-candidate doesn't excite me like Obama did, but replacing Trump with a solidly competent and positive administration is the most thrilling thing I can imagine happening right now.

We need to save the country. This is how we do it.
This is why Biden is arguably the perfect candidate for this election. He's fine - he's got the right credentials, he's reasonably smart, he's a nice guy. Because of all that, he's really hard to demonize. Not a ton of people are super excited about being president, but no one's scared of him being president - he's not someone you can point to and say, "hey, whatever you think about me, imagine how awful it would be if *that guy* were president!"

So, almost anyone who wants off the crazy train is going to be willing to vote for him.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by YellowKing »

And as much as people don't want to hear it, I truly believe someone who has some sort of working relationship with the other side of the aisle is an asset.

We are never going to heal the partisan divide in this country by digging in our heels and refusing to work with each other. Biden is well-liked enough on both sides of the aisle to make some headway there.

Is it a bitter pill to swallow to have to work with the same people that have fucked this country sideways for the past 4 years? Absolutely. But this is what we have to work with, and I think the path we're on currently - the path Trump chose, in which anyone who disagrees with us is our enemy - is the path that is going to lead this country to absolute ruin.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Alefroth »

YellowKing wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:35 pm
We are never going to heal the partisan divide in this country
Biden isn't going to do it and I sincerely doubt anyone would be able to. Pretty sure now not even an alien invasion will unite the country.

I'll gladly eat my hat if even a handful of people from the other side of the aisle work with Biden.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Blackhawk »

Time is the only thing with any chance to unite the country. Time for normalcy to feel normal again, time for the previously-sane Trumpsters to move on and regain that sanity, time for the rage at him losing (assuming he does) to pass, time for the extremists to fall back in the shadows, and time for enough of them to die off until they're a tiny, irrelevant fraction of what they are now.

All assuming, of course, that he loses and doesn't come back in 2024 (unlikely) or is replaced by an AlternaTrump. It's also dependent on some sort of reforms passing, which is exceedingly unlikely as it would require multiple branches working together to limit themselves.
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Combustible Lemur »


YellowKing wrote:And as much as people don't want to hear it, I truly believe someone who has some sort of working relationship with the other side of the aisle is an asset.

We are never going to heal the partisan divide in this country by digging in our heels and refusing to work with each other. Biden is well-liked enough on both sides of the aisle to make some headway there.

Is it a bitter pill to swallow to have to work with the same people that have fucked this country sideways for the past 4 years? Absolutely. But this is what we have to work with, and I think the path we're on currently - the path Trump chose, in which anyone who disagrees with us is our enemy - is the path that is going to lead this country to absolute ruin.
You're off by 36yrs(at least; arguably the Civil rights act and resulting political flip of the Southern Democratic base). Barr was involved in Iran contra and the pardons. Mconnel has been in the senate for decades. Rove, the architect of modern republicanism is from that Era. Cheney was around through Bush elder and Willy Horton. Escalating the war on drugs and the outright lies to do it is perrenial conservative boogeyman politics. The drive to push false law and order narratives and pull the center right (yes clinton/biden) but soft on crime is considered a weakness of the left. The rise of Limbaugh, Fox, and eventually the alt right. Grover Norquist, Newt Gingrich, the politicizing of President's personal lives in the nineties, voter suppression, the bullshit hypocrisy of the religious moral majority bathed in by conservative ideologues. The deregulation worship drumbeat that leads to things like Flint, and 2007. The warm blanket of confederate adulation.
I'm sure we could make a long list of left leaning stupidity. But we did NOT end up at Trump on accident.

I don't know that your wrong. But the idea that Trumpism isn't the boiled essence of the modern Republican Party because as an individual he is particularly morally repugnant makes my skin crawl. Hell, most of his policies are popular with Republicans. If he wasn't such a dipshit no one on the right would be complaining. Noxious pointed it out either up thread or in another. Other than his personal moral monstrosities, and dumpster fire self owns his successes/ failures mostly fall within the margins of philosophical differences between parties, even his corruption would be run of the mill if he wasn't so transparent about it.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by malchior »

YellowKing wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:35 pm
And as much as people don't want to hear it, I truly believe someone who has some sort of working relationship with the other side of the aisle is an asset.

We are never going to heal the partisan divide in this country by digging in our heels and refusing to work with each other. Biden is well-liked enough on both sides of the aisle to make some headway there.

Is it a bitter pill to swallow to have to work with the same people that have fucked this country sideways for the past 4 years? Absolutely. But this is what we have to work with, and I think the path we're on currently - the path Trump chose, in which anyone who disagrees with us is our enemy - is the path that is going to lead this country to absolute ruin.
I wish this was right but it almost certainly won't be. There is no healing this partisan divide because no one cares about the actual cause. The *ongoing looting* of this nation by a small cadre of ultra wealthy people who have created a stable oligarchy with wealth the likes the world has never seen before. They've turned this economic power into political influence that is in a feedback loop. They get more wealth and more political power which delivers more wealth and so on. The Republicans were just much, much better at weaponizing the impact of this economic class warfare and turning it into political control. With one hand they aligned their fiscal policy with the interests of the ultra wealthy and have made inequality worse for decades. Meanwhile their propaganda functions led people to ignore the other hand stealing away their future.

Crisis after crisis, war after war, the government has mortgaged *our* future and poured money into the coffers of the ultra wealthy. And when times were good or normal, fiscal prudence suddenly was the talk of the day and there was no money to invest in roads, education, healthcare, or other things that in the past made America truly great. This system let people get sicker and sicker and watched our children be gunned down in their schools. We have continued to sweep major systemic problems like racism and police abuse under the rug. In long order, this system set up the conditions for the wealthiest nation in the world to become an ungovernable basket case. Trump is the populist result of this economic policy.

And it will probably only get worse from here. The reasons that make Biden desirable now via his absolute milquetoast appeal is the case for continuing decline. The Republicans are almost certainly not going to change in any meaningful way. Trump will still have influence over the party...well unless he is marched off to prison but fat chance of that. The most important part is that the Republicans, much like Russia, used him as a useful idiot to build out a lasting power base that'll still deliver for the ultra wealthy. They will prevent any progress needed to address the political and economic imbalances that have devastated this system and American life and prospects. The Democrats will likely not be able to turn this ship enough to prevent more crises. And future crises will likely whittle us down year after year. Can we predict what the actual outcomes will be? No, but prospects aren't good. Especially as we face a world that will be reeling from the coming environmental calamities. I wish there was a better outlook but there are only storm clouds on the horizon.

Edit: A litte extra perspective, prior to the pandemic only the top 20% of households had recovered from the effects of 2008. What that means was that approximately 20% of the population controlled 77% of the nation's wealth (about 75 Trillion dollars). The top 1%? They controlled 25 T which is more than the entire middle class. The top 0.0025% (400 families)? About 4 T themselves. Those 400 families have the resources alone to solve big society changing problems but they've instead paid to have the system allow them to continue to build their dragon's hoarde. And then the pandemic came and most of the economic devastation so far has fallen on the middle class and poor. Is it any mystery that they are acting out in bizarre ways? They're pawns in this sick game.

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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by El Guapo »

Alefroth wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:41 pm
YellowKing wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:35 pm
We are never going to heal the partisan divide in this country
Biden isn't going to do it and I sincerely doubt anyone would be able to. Pretty sure now not even an alien invasion will unite the country.

I'll gladly eat my hat if even a handful of people from the other side of the aisle work with Biden.
I tend to agree, with the slight caveat that if Biden winds up winning in a landslide I think there might be some period of reexamination in the GOP. Though in that scenario the Democrats probably retook the Senate so it's less important, at least in the short term.

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El Guapo
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by El Guapo »


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Defiant
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Defiant »

I don't know if I agree that no one is enthusiastic/passionate about Biden - he did really, really well in.. was it South Carolina like five hundred years ago? in a very, very crowded field, and so while he was like my fourth or fifth choice, I don't like to assume my experience is true for everyone (he did have a lead during most of the primary). But what is true, that that tweet shows, is that even if not many people are enthusiastic about him, a lot of people like him and few really dislike him because he's a good person, including the different wings of the Democratic party (Sanders likes him, for example), and even some Republicans (in the past, anyway) have said he's a good person.

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Paingod
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Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

Post by Paingod »

I know this is so last page...
Skinypupy wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:46 pm
Judge Frank Easterbrook wrote that the voting restrictions were acceptable because Republicans who controlled the legislature were not discriminating against voters based on race, but based on their political affiliation. He relied on a 2019 US supreme court ruling concluding that partisan manipulation of electoral districts was acceptable.

“The changes were made because of politics,” he wrote. “This record does not support a conclusion that the legislators who voted for the contested statutes cared about race; they cared about voters’ political preferences.” He added that Democratic lawmakers could retake control of the legislature and change the laws they objected to in the future.
So, voter suppression measures are OK if they're put in place due to political affiliation? Because that could change if the other party wins an election (or something)? I don't understand that at all.
...but that just reads to me like "Democracy doesn't matter as long as it's Red vs. Blue and not Black vs. White"
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