The Former Trump Presidency Thread

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 20018
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

GreenGoo wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:59 am Just a reminder that Zarathud touched on.

The US is the most expensive place to receive healthcare, which has also created the myth that is the best healthcare system in the world.
Best healthcare system or best healthcare? The two are quite different. I don't think anyone thinks the US has the best SYSTEM in the developed world, likely the opposite, or at least way down there.

Even "best healthcare" is full of traps. Best doctors? Best equipment? Best medicine? Assuming latest and greatest= best regarding those last two, we probably are near the top (I imagine Singapore is higher) And those are generally tied to most expensive. The question is, who gets billed for those expensive drugs and equipment? In the US? In Singapore?

Only to note the complexity of your statement. It's not quite as cut and dry as you make it sound IMO.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42314
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:34 am
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:59 am Just a reminder that Zarathud touched on.

The US is the most expensive place to receive healthcare, which has also created the myth that is the best healthcare system in the world.
Best healthcare system or best healthcare? The two are quite different. I don't think anyone thinks the US has the best SYSTEM in the developed world, likely the opposite, or at least way down there.

Even "best healthcare" is full of traps. Best doctors? Best equipment? Best medicine? Assuming latest and greatest= best regarding those last two, we probably are near the top (I imagine Singapore is higher) And those are generally tied to most expensive. The question is, who gets billed for those expensive drugs and equipment? In the US? In Singapore?

Only to note the complexity of your statement. It's not quite as cut and dry as you make it sound IMO.
Doesn't matter. Unless you want to talk about how the richest of the rich have access to the best healthcare in the world which I don't think is a useful metric, America falls down using serveral metrics.

The US's healthcare system is not the best in the world, and the American people (barring a very small percentage who can pay for everything out of pocket) do not receive the best healthcare in the world. It is the most expensive.

edit: For the record Canada doesn't do so great either. I just think it's important to acknowledge that you're already not getting your money's worth at 40 trillion, which Kraken says is disputed anyway.
User avatar
wonderpug
Posts: 10344
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:38 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by wonderpug »

GreenGoo wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:44 amDoesn't matter. Unless you want to talk about how the richest of the rich have access to the best healthcare in the world which I don't think is a useful metric, America falls down using serveral metrics.
You're forgetting trickle down health economics. If the richest 1% have good health care, then something something, good for everyone!
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42314
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo »

Good point.
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33592
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Remus West »

Kraken wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:07 pm
Remus West wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:53 pm
Paingod wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:00 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:54 am Enlarge Image
+100

A couple outliers can't reform a party 40 years in degradation. You can already see them flailing ineffectively as the Kool Aid is forced down their throats.
That and the far too many of them greedily gulping that Kool Aid as fast as it can be poured.
I would be more open to this philosophy if I thought it could possibly succeed. Consigning the party that controls all 3 branches of the federal government and most of the states to history's ashcan is...unlikely, especially if the Democratic establishment maintains its hammerlock on the only alternative. "Our oligarchs are better than theirs" inspires nobody. Trumpism might send them into the wilderness for a political cycle or two, but the GOP ain't going away.
Trumpism is not the GOP. I agree the GOP isn't going away but political parties evolve and the current make up of the GOP as the cult of Trump needs to go away rapidly.The only way to make that happen is to remove as many of them as possible as quickly as possible so that those who adhere to actual conservative policies seperate themselves and campaign on those rather than Trump's ideals.

Although, currently, the Democrats oligarchs are better than the Republicans. That said, power corrupts and I'm not interested in them holding actual control over everything for long either.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55346
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Zarathud wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:33 am
Studies have shown the profit interest in insurance screws consumers -- and government Medicare is surprisingly more efficient than the private sector.
Sure Medicare is more efficient, it is subsidized by the private sector. You have medigap and supplemental coverage in the private sector. You have Medicare Advantage, which is Medicare managed by the private sector.

Then you have all the commercial private sector insurances paying the same doctors and hospitals that treat Medicare patients. In many cases, commercial "profit interest" is the only thing that keeps them in business.

The new cost-savings incentives paid by Medicare go to the giant systems and academic centers that can afford an army of QI/UM personnel to manage the programs. They can afford that because of their "profit interest".
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23625
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Remus West wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:08 pm
Kraken wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:07 pm
Remus West wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:53 pm
Paingod wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:00 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:54 am Enlarge Image
+100

A couple outliers can't reform a party 40 years in degradation. You can already see them flailing ineffectively as the Kool Aid is forced down their throats.
That and the far too many of them greedily gulping that Kool Aid as fast as it can be poured.
I would be more open to this philosophy if I thought it could possibly succeed. Consigning the party that controls all 3 branches of the federal government and most of the states to history's ashcan is...unlikely, especially if the Democratic establishment maintains its hammerlock on the only alternative. "Our oligarchs are better than theirs" inspires nobody. Trumpism might send them into the wilderness for a political cycle or two, but the GOP ain't going away.
Trumpism is not the GOP. I agree the GOP isn't going away but political parties evolve and the current make up of the GOP as the cult of Trump needs to go away rapidly.The only way to make that happen is to remove as many of them as possible as quickly as possible so that those who adhere to actual conservative policies seperate themselves and campaign on those rather than Trump's ideals.

Although, currently, the Democrats oligarchs are better than the Republicans. That said, power corrupts and I'm not interested in them holding actual control over everything for long either.
The thing is that the GOP would be powerless and small without Trumpism, which is effectively all the Culture Warriors. Without the culture warriors, the GOP is just rich people cutting rich people's taxes, which by definition is a shrinking population.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42314
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo »

I think having drumpf become president and watching how the GOP reacts to him has done wonders to open the eyes of a lot of people, myself included.

The current crop is a bunch of snivelling line toters, with little to no concern about how drew the line or what the line is. That's not principled leadership. That's not principled anything.

Once upon a time Mr. Fed told me that all politicians were in it for themselves, and I countered that I believed that most politicians want to help (at least when they first start out). I have become FAR more critical of ALL politicians since then even though I cling to my belief, but the GOP has really got me questioning the entire premise.

Even those who pretend to have a conscience are just pretending. Watching McCain make all the right noises and then vote the party line most of the time was incredibly disappointing.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28948
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman »

GreenGoo wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:29 pm I think having drumpf become president and watching how the GOP reacts to him has done wonders to open the eyes of a lot of people, myself included.

The current crop is a bunch of snivelling line toters, with little to no concern about how drew the line or what the line is. That's not principled leadership. That's not principled anything.

Once upon a time Mr. Fed told me that all politicians were in it for themselves, and I countered that I believed that most politicians want to help (at least when they first start out). I have become FAR more critical of ALL politicians since then even though I cling to my belief, but the GOP has really got me questioning the entire premise.

Even those who pretend to have a conscience are just pretending. Watching McCain make all the right noises and then vote the party line most of the time was incredibly disappointing.
If McCain is your standard for principled political work, you're already screwed.

He was obviously a good man, but was never the Maverick he claimed to be. His whole career was about posturing as a near-independent when it cost him nothing to do so and then bolting back to Republican lines when there was any risk whatsoever.

McCain the Maverick was about as real as Ryan the Policy Wonk.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42314
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo »

Holman wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:32 pm If McCain is your standard for principled political work, you're already screwed.
That is entirely my point.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41293
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:32 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:29 pm I think having drumpf become president and watching how the GOP reacts to him has done wonders to open the eyes of a lot of people, myself included.

The current crop is a bunch of snivelling line toters, with little to no concern about how drew the line or what the line is. That's not principled leadership. That's not principled anything.

Once upon a time Mr. Fed told me that all politicians were in it for themselves, and I countered that I believed that most politicians want to help (at least when they first start out). I have become FAR more critical of ALL politicians since then even though I cling to my belief, but the GOP has really got me questioning the entire premise.

Even those who pretend to have a conscience are just pretending. Watching McCain make all the right noises and then vote the party line most of the time was incredibly disappointing.
If McCain is your standard for principled political work, you're already screwed.

He was obviously a good man, but was never the Maverick he claimed to be. His whole career was about posturing as a near-independent when it cost him nothing to do so and then bolting back to Republican lines when there was any risk whatsoever.

McCain the Maverick was about as real as Ryan the Policy Wonk.
It's not entirely fair to compare McCain to Ryan. McCain the maverick was a real thing from about 2000 - 2004. Before 2000 he was a pretty solid conservative, and after 2004 he made peace with the Republican establishment as he presumably started to think about making another presidential run. The media never really caught up to McCain, though, and he pretty successfully coasted on those few years plus one or two isolated mavericky things.

By contrast, as far as I am aware Ryan has never been anything other than a Randian fraud.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 8536
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Alefroth »

Kraken wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:21 am Who supplied the $40T cost estimate? IIRC that came from some Koch-sponsored analysis. I've seen other studies suggest that Medicare for All will be cheaper than the current system.
Reason wrote:Tapper got that figure by adding up cost estimates for some of her bigger ideas. According to a cost analysis in Vox, the main democratic socialist policies would actually cost roughly $42.5 trillion over the next decade. The biggest culprit is the single-payer health care plan (Medicare for All), which the Mercatus Center says would cost taxpayers $32 trillion.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43761
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:26 pm
The thing is that the GOP would be powerless and small without Trumpism, which is effectively all the Culture Warriors. Without the culture warriors, the GOP is just rich people cutting rich people's taxes, which by definition is a shrinking population.
Was the GOP small and powerless before Trump? That's not how I remember it.
Alefroth wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:03 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:21 am Who supplied the $40T cost estimate? IIRC that came from some Koch-sponsored analysis. I've seen other studies suggest that Medicare for All will be cheaper than the current system.
Reason wrote:Tapper got that figure by adding up cost estimates for some of her bigger ideas. According to a cost analysis in Vox, the main democratic socialist policies would actually cost roughly $42.5 trillion over the next decade. The biggest culprit is the single-payer health care plan (Medicare for All), which the Mercatus Center says would cost taxpayers $32 trillion.
I'm skeptical that that's a net cost after the associated savings, but I lack the expertise to argue that.
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23625
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Kraken wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:48 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:26 pm
The thing is that the GOP would be powerless and small without Trumpism, which is effectively all the Culture Warriors. Without the culture warriors, the GOP is just rich people cutting rich people's taxes, which by definition is a shrinking population.
Was the GOP small and powerless before Trump? That's not how I remember it.
Alefroth wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:03 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:21 am Who supplied the $40T cost estimate? IIRC that came from some Koch-sponsored analysis. I've seen other studies suggest that Medicare for All will be cheaper than the current system.
Reason wrote:Tapper got that figure by adding up cost estimates for some of her bigger ideas. According to a cost analysis in Vox, the main democratic socialist policies would actually cost roughly $42.5 trillion over the next decade. The biggest culprit is the single-payer health care plan (Medicare for All), which the Mercatus Center says would cost taxpayers $32 trillion.
I'm skeptical that that's a net cost after the associated savings, but I lack the expertise to argue that.
No the GOP wasn't "small and powerless" before Trump, but before the Culture Wars hit full stride, Democrats had near permanent majorities in the House and Senate, and Texas was Blue. In this case, I'm classifying "Trumpism" as the ultimate culture warrior.

You subtract the religious right, and the dog-whistle prone, and the "Conservative" Cut Taxes, deregulate, kill/privatize Social Security and Medicare and expand military spending (as well as the deficit) and you don't have much left.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28948
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:58 pm No the GOP wasn't "small and powerless" before Trump, but before the Culture Wars hit full stride, Democrats had near permanent majorities in the House and Senate, and Texas was Blue. In this case, I'm classifying "Trumpism" as the ultimate culture warrior.

You subtract the religious right, and the dog-whistle prone, and the "Conservative" Cut Taxes, deregulate, kill/privatize Social Security and Medicare and expand military spending (as well as the deficit) and you don't have much left.
Well, you're talking about the period when Democrats were such a huge tent that they included what is now the racist Republican base (hence Blue Texas) alongside FDR/Truman/LBJ welfare-staters.

The 1980s/90s-era culture wars didn't change anyone's mind, just their voting habits. About 30-40% of Americans have always been willing to vote for outright racism, and another 10-20% has been willing to overlook it in pursuit of other goals.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23625
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Holman wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:10 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:58 pm No the GOP wasn't "small and powerless" before Trump, but before the Culture Wars hit full stride, Democrats had near permanent majorities in the House and Senate, and Texas was Blue. In this case, I'm classifying "Trumpism" as the ultimate culture warrior.

You subtract the religious right, and the dog-whistle prone, and the "Conservative" Cut Taxes, deregulate, kill/privatize Social Security and Medicare and expand military spending (as well as the deficit) and you don't have much left.
Well, you're talking about the period when Democrats were such a huge tent that they included what is now the racist Republican base (hence Blue Texas) alongside FDR/Truman/LBJ welfare-staters.

The 1980s/90s-era culture wars didn't change anyone's mind, just their voting habits. About 30-40% of Americans have always been willing to vote for outright racism, and another 10-20% has been willing to overlook it in pursuit of other goals.
Texas was blue until the 90's.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82224
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:55 pm Texas was blue until the 90's.
79-82, 87-90 were Republican governors.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82224
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:57 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:55 pm Texas was blue until the 90's.
79-82, 87-90 were Republican governors.
And hasn't been blue for president since 1976.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28948
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:58 pm Texas was blue until the 90's.
Blue or Blue Dog?

Even Alabama voted Democrat into the 1990s, but its Democrats were reactionaries of the old pre-Civil-Rights sort. It took a while for their careers to wind down, but in congress they were voting anti-liberal all the while.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70171
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LordMortis »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:55 pm Texas was blue until the 90's.
Weren't much of the south blue until 90s?

...

Or isn't what Holman said?
User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 23625
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

And Ted Cruz isn't far behind Trump:
What’s notably missing from Cruz’s campaign message is any recognizable conservative program. The conservative agenda has become at best a distraction, and at worst a liability...

...the Republicans’ own polling confirms this. Josh Green has obtained internal Republican survey data, which includes the hilarious finding that Republican voters refuse to believe Democrats might win Congress. More pertinently, it reveals that voters are not actually onboard with the party agenda. The survey found “increasing funding for veterans’ mental health services, strengthening and preserving Medicare and Social Security, and reforming the student loan system all scored higher than Trump’s favored subjects of tax cuts, border security, and preserving the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.”

The popular ideas, in other words, all involve higher domestic spending. The Republican survey also warns that a “challenge for GOP candidates is that most voters believe that the GOP wants to cut back on these programs in order to provide tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy.”...

...And while Trump’s constant scandals — or “noise,” as his co-partisans euphemistically put it — may not be helping, they are not obscuring some kind of underlying winning message. That’s why Republican candidates are not trying to focus on domestic policy, but instead running as mini-Trumps of their own, emphasizing symbolic cultural fights designed to whip up ethno-nationalist fervor...

...conservative thought is almost completely absent from Cruz’s campaign themes. His television ads tout Cruz’s record in securing federal hurricane relief for Texas and attack his opponent. (What would Ludwig von Mises think?) Cruz’s role in supporting Trump’s conservative policy accomplishments goes unmentioned
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 63645
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Daehawk »

Trump cares about hurricane Florence damage...... at least where it concerns his golf course

Bastard.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
User avatar
geezer
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: Yeeha!

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by geezer »

Holman wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:02 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:58 pm Texas was blue until the 90's.
Blue or Blue Dog?

Even Alabama voted Democrat into the 1990s, but its Democrats were reactionaries of the old pre-Civil-Rights sort. It took a while for their careers to wind down, but in congress they were voting anti-liberal all the while.
I was in college in Tx at the time. In no world were Ann Richards (governor) and Lloyd Bentsen (Senator) pre-civil rights reactionaries that were supporting racist policies.
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 21243
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Grifman »

Watching Trump’s press conference now. How embarrassing - what a total idiot and embarrassment to the Republican Party and the country. He rambles and rambles and never answers the question, or if he does, the answers don’t make sense.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
$iljanus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13685
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: New England...or under your bed

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by $iljanus »

Yeah, I turned on NPR forgetting that the Toddler was giving a press conference. The Obama bashing, self promotion, and general rambling gave me a lot of agita. The radio is off now.
Black lives matter!

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
User avatar
Dogstar
Posts: 1755
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:20 pm

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Dogstar »

I'm not sure which thread this goes in, but...


Pres. Trump: "There was no collusion, there was no obstruction—unless you call obstruction the fact that I fight back. I do fight back. I really fight back. I mean, if you call that obstruction, that's fine."
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28948
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman »

@ddale8 is the go-to source whenever Trump makes a public appearance. For his sins, perhaps, Dale has committed himself to live-blogging all DJT rallies and press conferences, documenting lies along the way.

Coverage of today's presser begins here.

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Chaz
Posts: 7381
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:37 am
Location: Southern NH

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Chaz »

Daniel Dale is a national treasure. Canada so lucky.
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
Jeff V
Posts: 36416
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Jeff V »

Dogstar wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:47 pm I'm not sure which thread this goes in, but...


Pres. Trump: "There was no collusion, there was no obstruction—unless you call obstruction the fact that I fight back. I do fight back. I really fight back. I mean, if you call that obstruction, that's fine."
OK then! We'll call it obstruction and send your orange ass to prison for it where you can hang with other obstructors of justice!
Black Lives Matter
GungHo
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
Location: Second star to the right

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GungHo »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:32 pm And Ted Cruz isn't far behind Trump:
What’s notably missing from Cruz’s campaign message is any recognizable conservative program. The conservative agenda has become at best a distraction, and at worst a liability...

...the Republicans’ own polling confirms this. Josh Green has obtained internal Republican survey data, which includes the hilarious finding that Republican voters refuse to believe Democrats might win Congress. More pertinently, it reveals that voters are not actually onboard with the party agenda. The survey found “increasing funding for veterans’ mental health services, strengthening and preserving Medicare and Social Security, and reforming the student loan system all scored higher than Trump’s favored subjects of tax cuts, border security, and preserving the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.”

The popular ideas, in other words, all involve higher domestic spending. The Republican survey also warns that a “challenge for GOP candidates is that most voters believe that the GOP wants to cut back on these programs in order to provide tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy.”...

...And while Trump’s constant scandals — or “noise,” as his co-partisans euphemistically put it — may not be helping, they are not obscuring some kind of underlying winning message. That’s why Republican candidates are not trying to focus on domestic policy, but instead running as mini-Trumps of their own, emphasizing symbolic cultural fights designed to whip up ethno-nationalist fervor...

...conservative thought is almost completely absent from Cruz’s campaign themes. His television ads tout Cruz’s record in securing federal hurricane relief for Texas and attack his opponent. (What would Ludwig von Mises think?) Cruz’s role in supporting Trump’s conservative policy accomplishments goes unmentioned
This is exactly why we're seeing 'Beto' signs all over yards in the most upscale homes in Dallas. Cruz isn't a 'Conservative', he's a 'conserve white privilege'. And anyone with half a heart and eyes that aren't sewn shut can see it. Even those who, ostensibly, would most benefit from Cruz's positions.
It was so remarkable to me that the other day on my drive home from work I started counting Beto vs Cruz signs...I got to 20 for Beto before I saw the 1st one for Cruz and by the time I left Highland Park it was almost 50 to 5. Insane.
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

-Hiccup
User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 21243
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Grifman »

On a brighter note, here's the inside story on the Trump "transition", such as it was:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/s ... tion-team
The first time Trump paid attention to any of this was when he read about it in the newspaper. The story revealed that Trump’s very own transition team had raised several million dollars to pay the staff. The moment he saw it, Trump called Steve Bannon, the chief executive of his campaign, from his office on the 26th floor of Trump Tower, and told him to come immediately to his residence, many floors above. Bannon stepped off the elevator to find Christie seated on a sofa, being hollered at. Trump was apoplectic, yelling: You’re stealing my money! You’re stealing my fucking money! What the fuck is this?

Seeing Bannon, Trump turned on him and screamed: Why are you letting him steal my fucking money? Bannon and Christie together set out to explain to Trump federal law. Months before the election, the law said, the nominees of the two major parties were expected to prepare to take control of the government. The government supplied them with office space in downtown DC, along with computers and rubbish bins and so on, but the campaigns paid their people. To which Trump replied: Fuck the law. I don’t give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money. Bannon and Christie tried to explain that Trump couldn’t have both his money and a transition.

Shut it down, said Trump. Shut down the transition.
From time to time, Trump would see something in the paper about Christie’s fundraising and become upset all over again. The money that people donated to his campaign Trump considered, effectively, his own. He thought the planning and forethought pointless. At one point he turned to Christie and said: “Chris, you and I are so smart that we can leave the victory party two hours early and do the transition ourselves.”
In the days after the election, the people in the building on 17th and Pennsylvania were meant to move to another building in downtown DC, a kind of White House-in-waiting. They soon discovered that the lists that they had created of people to staff the Trump administration were not the lists that mattered. There was now this other list, of people allowed into the new building, and most of their names weren’t on it. “People would show up to the new building and say: ‘Let me in,’ and the secret service would say: ‘Sorry, you’re not on the list,’” said a civil servant who worked in the new building.

It wasn’t just Christie who had been fired. It was the entire transition team – although no one ever told them so directly. As Nancy Cook reported in Politico, Bannon visited the transition headquarters a few days after he had given Christie the news, and made a show of tossing the work the people there had done for Trump into the bin. Trump was going to handle the transition more or less by himself. Not even Bannon thought this was a good idea. “I was fucking nervous as shit,” Bannon later told friends. “I go, ‘Holy fuck, this guy [Trump] doesn’t know anything. And he doesn’t give a shit.’”

They were about to take control of the portfolio of existential risks managed by the US government. Only they weren’t. On the morning after the election the hundreds of people who had prepared to brief the incoming Trump administration sat waiting. A day became a week and a week became a month … and no one showed up. The parking spots that had been set aside for Trump’s people remained empty, and the briefing books were never opened. You could walk into almost any department of the US government and hear people asking the same question: where were these people who were meant to be running the place?

The department of agriculture was an excellent case study. The place had an annual budget of $164bn and was charged with so many missions critical to the society that the people who worked there played a drinking game called Does the Department of Agriculture Do It? Someone would name a function of government, say, making sure that geese don’t gather at US airports, and fly into jet engines. Someone else would have to guess whether the agriculture department did it. (In this case, it did.) Guess wrong and you had to drink. Among other things, the department essentially maintained rural America, and also ensured that the American poor and the elderly did not starve. Much of its work was complicated and technical – and yet for the months between the election and the inauguration, Trump people never turned up to learn about it. Only on inauguration day did they flood into the building, but the people who showed up had no idea why they were there or what they were meant to do. Trump sent, among others, a long-haul truck driver, a telephone company clerk, a gas company meter reader, a country club cabana attendant, a Republican National Committee intern and the owner of a scented candle company. One of the CVs listed the new appointee’s only skill as “a pleasant demeanor”.

All these people had two things in common. They were Trump loyalists. And they knew nothing whatsoever about the job they suddenly found themselves in. A new American experiment was underway.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
User avatar
Paingod
Posts: 13135
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Paingod »

Grifman wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:08 am
All these people had two things in common. They were Trump loyalists. And they knew nothing whatsoever about the job they suddenly found themselves in.
Sounds like every appointment made by Trump.
Black Lives Matter

2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16497
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Zarathud »

Sounds like a good reason to invoke the 25th.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55346
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Sadly, the longer it goes on, the less likely there is any way to end it.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Fretmute
Posts: 8513
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:05 pm
Location: On a hillside, desolate

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Fretmute »

GungHo wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:37 pmThis is exactly why we're seeing 'Beto' signs all over yards in the most upscale homes in Dallas. Cruz isn't a 'Conservative', he's a 'conserve white privilege'. And anyone with half a heart and eyes that aren't sewn shut can see it. Even those who, ostensibly, would most benefit from Cruz's positions.
It was so remarkable to me that the other day on my drive home from work I started counting Beto vs Cruz signs...I got to 20 for Beto before I saw the 1st one for Cruz and by the time I left Highland Park it was almost 50 to 5. Insane.
Yeah, but we live in a blue dot. I doubt you find that ratio in, say, Corsicana.
User avatar
Captain Caveman
Posts: 11687
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:57 am

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Captain Caveman »

Fretmute wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:37 pm
GungHo wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:37 pmThis is exactly why we're seeing 'Beto' signs all over yards in the most upscale homes in Dallas. Cruz isn't a 'Conservative', he's a 'conserve white privilege'. And anyone with half a heart and eyes that aren't sewn shut can see it. Even those who, ostensibly, would most benefit from Cruz's positions.
It was so remarkable to me that the other day on my drive home from work I started counting Beto vs Cruz signs...I got to 20 for Beto before I saw the 1st one for Cruz and by the time I left Highland Park it was almost 50 to 5. Insane.
Yeah, but we live in a blue dot. I doubt you find that ratio in, say, Corsicana.
Highland Park is in TX32, which the NYT just polled. Beto only has a slim lead here, 49-47. Yard signs may be an indicator of enthusiasm, but they're a poor reflection of actual votes. It's not cool to be for Cruz the way it is for Beto, at least around here.
User avatar
geezer
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: Yeeha!

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by geezer »

Fretmute wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:37 pm
GungHo wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:37 pmThis is exactly why we're seeing 'Beto' signs all over yards in the most upscale homes in Dallas. Cruz isn't a 'Conservative', he's a 'conserve white privilege'. And anyone with half a heart and eyes that aren't sewn shut can see it. Even those who, ostensibly, would most benefit from Cruz's positions.
It was so remarkable to me that the other day on my drive home from work I started counting Beto vs Cruz signs...I got to 20 for Beto before I saw the 1st one for Cruz and by the time I left Highland Park it was almost 50 to 5. Insane.
Yeah, but we live in a blue dot. I doubt you find that ratio in, say, Corsicana.
FWIW, it's the same in Austin (no surprise) and Houston (at least in the Rice area - again no surprise), but usually even in these areas I see a healthy range of signs. It's all Beto this time around.
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 20018
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Fretmute wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:37 pm
GungHo wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:37 pmThis is exactly why we're seeing 'Beto' signs all over yards in the most upscale homes in Dallas. Cruz isn't a 'Conservative', he's a 'conserve white privilege'. And anyone with half a heart and eyes that aren't sewn shut can see it. Even those who, ostensibly, would most benefit from Cruz's positions.
It was so remarkable to me that the other day on my drive home from work I started counting Beto vs Cruz signs...I got to 20 for Beto before I saw the 1st one for Cruz and by the time I left Highland Park it was almost 50 to 5. Insane.
Yeah, but we live in a blue dot. I doubt you find that ratio in, say, Corsicana.
Yeah, same here. I'm in the middle of one of the reddest states around, but if you drove around within a few miles each way of my house, just based on yard signs and bumper stickers, you would think you were in Berkshire or Hartford. I sometimes wonder if those bubbles give voters a false sense of security (leading to non-voting, even by those who have strong political opinions).
GungHo
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
Location: Second star to the right

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GungHo »

Captain Caveman wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:42 pm
Fretmute wrote: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:37 pm
GungHo wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:37 pmThis is exactly why we're seeing 'Beto' signs all over yards in the most upscale homes in Dallas. Cruz isn't a 'Conservative', he's a 'conserve white privilege'. And anyone with half a heart and eyes that aren't sewn shut can see it. Even those who, ostensibly, would most benefit from Cruz's positions.
It was so remarkable to me that the other day on my drive home from work I started counting Beto vs Cruz signs...I got to 20 for Beto before I saw the 1st one for Cruz and by the time I left Highland Park it was almost 50 to 5. Insane.
Yeah, but we live in a blue dot. I doubt you find that ratio in, say, Corsicana.
Highland Park is in TX32, which the NYT just polled. Beto only has a slim lead here, 49-47. Yard signs may be an indicator of enthusiasm, but they're a poor reflection of actual votes. It's not cool to be for Cruz the way it is for Beto, at least around here.
The craziest part of that, too me, is just how that district is drawn. I'm in that district but somehow so is HP?!? What?? How do I have anything besides(most likely) skin color in common wth those people? There has to be a million people, literally, that live between my house and the center of HP that aren't in my district that are much closer to me in values and economic status than the quadrillionaires of HP. Gerrymandering sucks
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

-Hiccup
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 13730
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Max Peck »

It's 2018, and I can no longer tell the difference between The Onion and the AP.



Experts say Trump’s EPA moving to loosen radiation limits
The EPA is pursuing rule changes that experts say would weaken the way radiation exposure is regulated, turning to scientific outliers who argue that a bit of radiation damage is actually good for you — like a little bit of sunlight.

The government’s current, decades-old guidance says that any exposure to harmful radiation is a cancer risk. And critics say the proposed change could lead to higher levels of exposure for workers at nuclear installations and oil and gas drilling sites, medical workers doing X-rays and CT scans, people living next to Superfund sites and any members of the public who one day might find themselves exposed to a radiation release.
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
Post Reply