noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 9:52 amWhen Kaepernick started his demonstration, it wasn't clear to me what he wanted or why he was drawing attention to himself.
I'm not sure how that is Kaepernick's fault, considering he said why he was doing it the moment someone shoved a microphone into his face.
"I'm going to continue to stand with the people that are being oppressed. To me, this is something that has to change. When there's significant change and I feel that flag represents what it's supposed to represent, and this country is representing people the way that it's supposed to, I'll stand."
"This stand wasn’t for me. This is because I’m seeing things happen to people that don’t have a voice, people that don’t have a platform to talk and have their voices heard, and effect change. So I’m in the position where I can do that and I’m going to do that for people that can’t."
"It's something that can unify this team. It's something that can unify this country. If we have these real conversations that are uncomfortable for a lot of people. If we have these conversations, there's a better understanding of where both sides are coming from."
"I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country. I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up, as far as giving freedom and justice, liberty to everybody. That’s something that’s not happening. I’ve seen videos, I’ve seen circumstances where men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they fought have for, and have been murdered by the country they fought for, on our land. That’s not right."
I have a hard time finding something offensive there. The people that took offense more than likely never heard those words.
noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 9:52 amWhen Kaepernick started his demonstration, it wasn't clear to me what he wanted or why he was drawing attention to himself.
I'm not sure how that is Kaepernick's fault, considering he said why he was doing it the moment someone shoved a microphone into his face.
"I'm going to continue to stand with the people that are being oppressed. To me, this is something that has to change. When there's significant change and I feel that flag represents what it's supposed to represent, and this country is representing people the way that it's supposed to, I'll stand."
"This stand wasn’t for me. This is because I’m seeing things happen to people that don’t have a voice, people that don’t have a platform to talk and have their voices heard, and effect change. So I’m in the position where I can do that and I’m going to do that for people that can’t."
"It's something that can unify this team. It's something that can unify this country. If we have these real conversations that are uncomfortable for a lot of people. If we have these conversations, there's a better understanding of where both sides are coming from."
"I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country. I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up, as far as giving freedom and justice, liberty to everybody. That’s something that’s not happening. I’ve seen videos, I’ve seen circumstances where men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they fought have for, and have been murdered by the country they fought for, on our land. That’s not right."
I have a hard time finding something offensive there. The people that took offense more than likely never heard those words.
You're not listening to what I wrote.
The offense is kneeling during the anthem. The common ritual we have is to stand for national anthems. Even ones that are not our own. Not standing is the point of the demonstration. It's supposed to draw attention to him and his cause. If we weren't offended by it, it would be pretty ineffective.
So, then the cameras were pushed in his face and what? There's nothing about police. There's nothing about people being murdered. There's nothing about what he would like done about it.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 12:12 pm
So, then the cameras were pushed in his face and what? There's nothing about police. There's nothing about people being murdered.
That's exactly what this says. You have to read it in the context of the times.
"I'm going to continue to stand with the people that are being oppressed. To me, this is something that has to change. When there's significant change and I feel that flag represents what it's supposed to represent, and this country is representing people the way that it's supposed to, I'll stand."
"This stand wasn’t for me. This is because I’m seeing things happen to people that don’t have a voice, people that don’t have a platform to talk and have their voices heard, and effect change. So I’m in the position where I can do that and I’m going to do that for people that can’t."
noxiousdog wrote: There's nothing about what he would like done about it.
And he addresses this as well.
"It's something that can unify this team. It's something that can unify this country. If we have these real conversations that are uncomfortable for a lot of people. If we have these conversations, there's a better understanding of where both sides are coming from."
He wants people to talk about the problem. Expecting him to have more of a solution to a problem of this magnitude is ludicrous.
noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 12:12 pm
So, then the cameras were pushed in his face and what? There's nothing about police. There's nothing about people being murdered.
That's exactly what this says. You have to read it in the context of the times.
"I'm going to continue to stand with the people that are being oppressed. To me, this is something that has to change. When there's significant change and I feel that flag represents what it's supposed to represent, and this country is representing people the way that it's supposed to, I'll stand."
"This stand wasn’t for me. This is because I’m seeing things happen to people that don’t have a voice, people that don’t have a platform to talk and have their voices heard, and effect change. So I’m in the position where I can do that and I’m going to do that for people that can’t."
noxiousdog wrote: There's nothing about what he would like done about it.
And he addresses this as well.
"It's something that can unify this team. It's something that can unify this country. If we have these real conversations that are uncomfortable for a lot of people. If we have these conversations, there's a better understanding of where both sides are coming from."
He wants people to talk about the problem. Expecting him to have more of a solution to a problem of this magnitude is ludicrous.
It's like you don't even want to try to understand. You just want to say why people that disagree with you are wrong.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"I didn't have scandals, which seems like it shouldn't be something you brag about," Obama joked.
Caught between bad form bad from and I have no respect left for the office, so meh, the rule changed, why should Obama be any different but then I find myself right back at bad form bad from.
noxiousdog wrote:You're not listening to what I wrote.
Well, I definitely don’t understand what you are saying, but I would like to.
The offense is kneeling during the anthem. The common ritual we have is to stand for national anthems. Even ones that are not our own. Not standing is the point of the demonstration. It's supposed to draw attention to him and his cause. If we weren't offended by it, it would be pretty ineffective.
Agreed.
So, then the cameras were pushed in his face and what? There's nothing about police. There's nothing about people being murdered. There's nothing about what he would like done about it.
This is where you lose me. I don’t know how you can read his comments and still say this. He literally says the things you say he didn’t say.
msteelers wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 2:01 pm
This is where you lose me. I don’t know how you can read his comments and still say this. He literally says the things you say he didn’t say.
Page no worky.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
msteelers wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 2:01 pm
This is where you lose me. I don’t know how you can read his comments and still say this. He literally says the things you say he didn’t say.
"I'm going to continue to stand with the people that are being oppressed. To me, this is something that has to change. When there's significant change and I feel that flag represents what it's supposed to represent, and this country is representing people the way that it's supposed to, I'll stand."
So what? Bullies? Equal Pay for Equal Work? Native Americans get their land back? The 1% pays more taxes? Union power? This country has a lot of places it can use some work.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
msteelers wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 2:01 pm
This is where you lose me. I don’t know how you can read his comments and still say this. He literally says the things you say he didn’t say.
"I'm going to continue to stand with the people that are being oppressed. To me, this is something that has to change. When there's significant change and I feel that flag represents what it's supposed to represent, and this country is representing people the way that it's supposed to, I'll stand."
So what? Bullies? Equal Pay for Equal Work? Native Americans get their land back? The 1% pays more taxes? Union power? This country has a lot of places it can use some work.
From the article you linked to:
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
Seems rather specific to me.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
Sorry about the link. I’m posting from my phone and for some reason it won’t let me copy/paste. But the relevant part that I would point out is where he says there are bodies in the streets and people are getting paid leave for committing murder.
That was not widely reported at the time. I even missed it in that article and I was looking for it.
I never heard that explanation and of it doesn't surprise me. Anything to fuel controversy I suppose.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
I think if you weren't already on his side, it made it easy to overlook and he didn't have a very clear message.
Is it about police brutality? Is it about racial injustice in general? After reading this article I'm leaning towards the latter.
Anyway, it hardly matters at this point. I think it's a worthwhile enough protest I'm attempting to sell my PSLs which I've had since 2002.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
msteelers wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 10:36 am
I'm not sure how that is Kaepernick's fault, considering he said why he was doing it the moment someone shoved a microphone into his face.
I've been reading more of the articles and it kinda is his fault. This was in the 18 minute media session:
"I think the two presidential candidates that we currently have also represent the issues that we have in this country right now," Kaepernick said. "You have Hillary who's called black teens or black kids super predators. You have Donald Trump who is openly racist. We have a presidential candidate who deleted emails and done things illegally and is a presidential candidate. That doesn't make sense to me. Because if that was any other person, you'd be in prison. So what is this country really standing for?"
He's protesting Hillary's emails among other things.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
Or maybe I'm missing what you are saying was not being reported.
No we weren't (other than the generic oppression). I was saying then I didn't know what it was about and McNutt said you had to infer it.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
It was a copy paste from my mobile so I guess something got lost, hehe. This is what it was supposed to say:
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
That last sentence couldn't be more spot on. It's not that everyone is rotten. But those that are have been and continue to "get away with it". Until that changes, and I think we are headed in the right direction with all the videotaping, I completely understand his frustration and stance and I won't assume he's being anything but honest at this point.
And even if he isn't, the point itself is valid.
Saying "I don't want to be an American" is about the worst possible way to get other Americans to want to support your cause.
You quoted a post that included the quote from Kaepernick where he specifically said this was in response to black people getting killed by police, and you didn't know what it was about? Even crazier, you somehow interpreted it as him saying "I don't want to be an American."
I don't know what it is about this issue that makes reasonable people suddenly suffer from short term amnesia. It's in one ear and out the other. I don't know what to call it, other than willful ignorance. You even admitted yourself earlier today that you missed the quote, even after specifically looking for it in an article that you posted.
msteelers wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 5:12 pm
You quoted a post that included the quote from Kaepernick where he specifically said this was in response to black people getting killed by police, and you didn't know what it was about? Even crazier, you somehow interpreted it as him saying "I don't want to be an American."
I don't know what it is about this issue that makes reasonable people suddenly suffer from short term amnesia. It's in one ear and out the other. I don't know what to call it, other than willful ignorance. You even admitted yourself earlier today that you missed the quote, even after specifically looking for it in an article that you posted.
Fair enough.
I do find it interesting that's the only place it appears in our discussion (unless I'm missing another one) and it's the only quote anyone's posted of his relating directly to the matter.
Cognitive dissonance is a real thing.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
msteelers wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 5:12 pm
I don't know what it is about this issue that makes reasonable people suddenly suffer from short term amnesia. It's in one ear and out the other. I don't know what to call it, other than willful ignorance. You even admitted yourself earlier today that you missed the quote, even after specifically looking for it in an article that you posted.
I can't speak for ND but we (meaning I) am on distraction overload. If the Internet were just a barrage of information without the ability for me to play amateur Izzy, I'd have amnesia about virtually everything. I work on or resolve over 50 emails every single day at work. It's staggering when I think about it. And my email is my bible. I tell the highest ranking officers at my company "email should never be official but if it doesn't happen by email it never happened" I have a 20 year running perfect memory of 10's of thousands of happenings in .pst files. I have zero memories without them. I also inform them when they shitcan me, make sure to preserve those emails. Every last one of them.
Related to this thread, this distraction overload is a large part of what pisses me off about the current administration running my country. They are accidentally or intentionally masterful at distraction. A veritable Penn and Teller. We literally can't stay on point for a day at a time.
noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 12:12 pm
The offense is kneeling during the anthem. The common ritual we have is to stand for national anthems. Even ones that are not our own. Not standing is the point of the demonstration. It's supposed to draw attention to him and his cause. If we weren't offended by it, it would be pretty ineffective.
So, then the cameras were pushed in his face and what? There's nothing about police. There's nothing about people being murdered. There's nothing about what he would like done about it.
Actually, it wasn't a cause. He was just kneeling out of personal feelings at first, not out of some desire to start a movement/cause. It wasn't until Eric Reid asked him what was up that things developed that way. He had actually done it for a game or two before Reid spoke with him, and it was another game or two after that that the media got wind of it. Mostly it was just him doing what he felt was right for himself at the start.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 12:12 pm
The offense is kneeling during the anthem. The common ritual we have is to stand for national anthems. Even ones that are not our own. Not standing is the point of the demonstration. It's supposed to draw attention to him and his cause. If we weren't offended by it, it would be pretty ineffective.
So, then the cameras were pushed in his face and what? There's nothing about police. There's nothing about people being murdered. There's nothing about what he would like done about it.
Actually, it wasn't a cause. He was just kneeling out of personal feelings at first, not out of some desire to start a movement/cause. It wasn't until Eric Reid asked him what was up that things developed that way. He had actually done it for a game or two before Reid spoke with him, and it was another game or two after that that the media got wind of it. Mostly it was just him doing what he felt was right for himself at the start.
We sorta came to a middle ground where he would take a knee alongside his teammate. Soldiers take a knee in front of a fallen brother’s grave, you know, to show respect. When we’re on a patrol, you know, and we go into a security halt, we take a knee, and we pull security.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
Defiant wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 2:15 pm
Of course, Sisko is the best. He won a god damned war. He was a literal god. And when he found himself on the other side of the galaxy, it only took him a few minutes to get back to the Alpha quadrant.
To bring things back on topic, I'm watching Bab5 for the first time. Seeing Jeffry Combs playing a human is confusing to me. I'd say Season 1's moral parables were as over over the top ToS but then I see here in 2018 and they're kinda spot on.
Trump wrote:The Failing @nytimes quotes “a senior White House official,” who doesn’t exist, as saying “even if the meeting were reinstated, holding it on June 12 would be impossible, given the lack of time and the amount of planning needed.” WRONG AGAIN! Use real people, not phony sources.
The White House organized an off-the-record call with reporters. This is a lie.
Journo Twitter is lit up about this. There were apparently quite a few reporters on the call, all of them witnesses.
This kind of thing comes almost every day now. Is Trump's lying actually pathological, or is he just fully embracing the strategy that every official lie weakens the idea of truth itself?
Holman wrote: ↑Sat May 26, 2018 1:04 pm
This kind of thing comes almost every day now. Is Trump's lying actually pathological, or is he just fully embracing the strategy that every official lie weakens the idea of truth itself?
Drumpf pushes boundaries and if he doesn't get any pushback he keeps going. So far he has seen very little downside to his compulsive lying, and so he continues.
It's doubtful he'd even understand the damage he's doing if it was explained to him with pictures and small words.
Allow me to run today's tweet through a Trump translator: "Even though we control all three houses and they have no way to do so, the Democrats must stop my administration from enacting all these horrible policies. All of which I could stop in an instant, but won't. Oh, and MS13!! WALL!! CHAIN MIGRATION! BROWN PEOPLE BOOGEYMAN!! BE AFRAAAAAAAAAAID!!!!!"
Put pressure on the Democrats to end the horrible law that separates children from there parents once they cross the Border into the U.S. Catch and Release, Lottery and Chain must also go with it and we MUST continue building the WALL! DEMOCRATS ARE PROTECTING MS-13 THUGS.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
Unagi wrote: ↑Sat May 26, 2018 4:58 pm
Aren't his in-laws here as a result of 'chain migration' ?
Hillary's emails!!
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
How many times has Trump played golf as President of the United States? Since taking office on Jan. 20, 2017, Mr. Trump has reportedly been on the grounds of his golf courses or played golf elsewhere 115 times since becoming President, and that's as of May 13, 2018.
The cost of Trump's golf rounds to the American taxpayer varies by round and course, but it has totaled so far in the tens of millions of dollars.
Trump has spent nearly 22 percent of his days in office at one of his golf properties for some portion of the day.
We don't know if Trump has played golf every time he shows up to one of his clubs. That's because the Trump Administration has gone out of its way to bar the White House press pool from shadowing President Trump when he goes to his golf clubs. That means Trump could be playing golf, or he could be hitting golf balls on the range, or he could be twiddling his thumbs. We don't know, and the Trump Administration won't say.
However, Trump was particularly critical of how many rounds President Barack Obama played in office, and so now he looks somewhat hypocritical in retrospect.
And just how much did Obama play golf?
In total, according to CBS News reporter and presidential historian Mark Knoller, President Barack Obama played a total of 333 rounds of golf while President. That means Obama played golf for 1,665 hours of his presidency, which was, officially, 55,008 hours. In other words, Obama played golf for 3 percent of the time Obama was President.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake. http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
Trump wrote:The Failing @nytimes quotes “a senior White House official,” who doesn’t exist, as saying “even if the meeting were reinstated, holding it on June 12 would be impossible, given the lack of time and the amount of planning needed.” WRONG AGAIN! Use real people, not phony sources.
The White House organized an off-the-record call with reporters. This is a lie.
Journo Twitter is lit up about this. There were apparently quite a few reporters on the call, all of them witnesses.
This kind of thing comes almost every day now. Is Trump's lying actually pathological, or is he just fully embracing the strategy that every official lie weakens the idea of truth itself?
I'm sure his lying is pathological, but there's a purpose to it when it comes to the media.
A special reverent and respectful holiday message for everyone, courtesy of the President of the United States of America:
Happy Memorial Day! Those who died for our great country would be very happy and proud at how well our country is doing today. Best economy in decades, lowest unemployment numbers for Blacks and Hispanics EVER (& women in 18years), rebuilding our Military and so much more. Nice!
I'm not the only one hearing that "Nice!" at the end in Borat voice, right?
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
And now he's back to tweeting about spygate. As you do on Memorial Day.
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
I guess it's like the people who spend an hour on Christmas morning opening presents, sit back, and say "Well, that was a nice Christmas."
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
Smoove_B wrote:A special reverent and respectful holiday message for everyone, courtesy of the President of the United States of America:
Happy Memorial Day! Those who died for our great country would be very happy and proud at how well our country is doing today. Best economy in decades, lowest unemployment numbers for Blacks and Hispanics EVER (& women in 18years), rebuilding our Military and so much more. Nice!
Thank you hallowed dead who gave their lives for the best economy ever and awesome mattress sales.
What a fucking low class huckster.
Black lives matter!
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 9:54 am
A special reverent and respectful holiday message for everyone, courtesy of the President of the United States of America:
Happy Memorial Day! Those who died for our great country would be very happy and proud at how well our country is doing today. Best economy in decades, lowest unemployment numbers for Blacks and Hispanics EVER (& women in 18years), rebuilding our Military and so much more. Nice!
Wow. Save for the first three words, he managed to tweet only about himself, and most of his cultists won't even realize it.
Yeah, but someone kneeling at an NFL game is disrespectful. I should be amazed that there are people I see around town still proud that they voted for this mess, but apparently it's all good.
