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The Trump Presidency Thread

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YellowKing
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by YellowKing » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:40 am

I would love to learn that Sarah Huckabee Sanders was secretly plotting Trump's downfall this entire time, and her portrayal as a loathsome press-hating mouthpiece was an Academy Award-worthy ruse to bring down his empire from within.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Paingod » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:48 am

YellowKing wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:40 am
I would love to learn that Sarah Huckabee Sanders was secretly plotting Trump's downfall this entire time, and her portrayal as a loathsome press-hating mouthpiece was an Academy Award-worthy ruse to bring down his empire from within.
She's probably ignorantly texting a friend, and the friend is leaking to the press.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:15 am

malchior wrote:
Kurth wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:53 am
geezer wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:54 pm
RunningMn9 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:49 pm
GreenGoo wrote:I *like* watching Rmn9 at work when it's not directed at me!
I don’t. I constantly feel like I’m living in bizarro world. Goddamn *decades* of horseshit like Rush, Hannity, Gingrich, Fox News and the whataboutism turns to a fucking political attack as against GHWB? Enough. I’m done with this nonsense. Carry on folks.
The Willie Horton ad was a republican creation AGAINST Dukakis, right? :think:
Yeah. WTF? Willie Horton and the “Weekend Passes” ad was launched by the Bush campaign (well, not directly; it was an “independent” group) targeting Mike Dukakis as weak on crime. The ad is infamous and is widely seen as having contributed substantially to Dukakis’s defeat.
Fun fact. These were the brain child of Richard Ailes...who went on to found Fox News. He was a key architect to building the machine that has lead to our nation's decline.
Not so fun, in hindsight.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Skinypupy » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:26 am

Trump issued another rallying cry to the cult last night, telling them "it will be your fault if I get impeached."
President Donald Trump sought to heighten the sense of urgency for his base Thursday when he told supporters that if he is impeached, "it's your fault, 'cause you didn't go out to vote."

Trump has discussed the prospect of being impeached before, but his comments come after a whirlwind week raised fresh questions about his fitness for office and control over his administration.

"You didn't go out to vote -- that's the only way it could happen," Trump said during a rally in Billings, Montana.

"I'll be the only President in history they'll say: 'What a job he's done! By the way, we're impeaching him,'" Trump said.

"This election, you aren't just voting for a candidate, you are voting for which party controls Congress," the President said. "Very important thing. Very important thing."
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Paingod » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:31 am

I would have thought everyone who loved him already voted. I'm having trouble imagining his Derp Troopers not voting. People who hate him are the growing base here.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:17 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:26 am
Trump issued another rallying cry to the cult last night, telling them "it will be your fault if I get impeached."
President Donald Trump sought to heighten the sense of urgency for his base Thursday when he told supporters that if he is impeached, "it's your fault, 'cause you didn't go out to vote."

Trump has discussed the prospect of being impeached before, but his comments come after a whirlwind week raised fresh questions about his fitness for office and control over his administration.

"You didn't go out to vote -- that's the only way it could happen," Trump said during a rally in Billings, Montana.

"I'll be the only President in history they'll say: 'What a job he's done! By the way, we're impeaching him,'" Trump said.

"This election, you aren't just voting for a candidate, you are voting for which party controls Congress," the President said. "Very important thing. Very important thing."
As long as "what a job he's done" is said with disgust in its tone, he's not wrong about any of it.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:48 pm

The correct way to brag as a professional is to talk about everything you have accomplished and wait for the accolades.

You don't yell at a crowd how awesome you are. Well, not unless you're Terry "Hulk" Hogan anyway (hilariously, even in that context it's not sincere, it's parody for entertainment purposes).

Drumpf can't even brag professionally. I swear to god he's a 2 bit street hustler the stork dropped at the wrong house.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by RunningMn9 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:15 pm

Kurth wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:44 am
Not solely, but the Willie Horton ad was one of the first things that sprang to my mind when thinking about the GOP’s history of weaponizing fear and ignorance. Also, it wasn’t just “an attack ad.” It was an attack ad purposefully designed to work off racial animus.

If that’s not the kind of weaponization of fear and ignorance you were talking about, please clue me in. Not sure what you appear to be so pissed off about. I thought I was agreeing with you, no?
My apologies. Something internally snapped and I apparently lost my goddamn mind.

From a more rational place, when I am talking about the weaponization of fear and ignorance, it's not negative political ads that I'm talking about. Even negative ads based on racial animus. I'm talking specifically about the rise of the anti-intellectualism that took over the party as the Christian Coalition and evangelicals rose to prominence within the party. This has laid the foundation for the majority of the base being willing and able to ignore everything in front of them to cling to what they believe. And then the rise of conservative talk radio and Fox News that has basically been inducing a 24/'7 panic attack in their listeners and viewers for decades, priming them for the appearance of a demagogue that will promise to make them safe from all the boogeymen that they've been busy creating for decades.

Trump is the obvious consequence of this strategy. Not Trump specifically, but someone like Trump. We just happened to get the cataclysmically shittiest conceivable version of this on the first go.

The issue isn't conservative thought, or conservative principles. The issue is the elements within the Republican Party that have nothing to do with conservatism outside of the fact that it's just become a meaningless label that they use to identify as their tribe. You can tell this by their laments that people like Bill Kristol aren't true conservatives. They have no idea what the term means. But THEY are the Republican Party now. Not conservatives.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by YellowKing » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:17 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:My apologies. Something internally snapped and I apparently lost my goddamn mind.
I wake up every day wishing Trump would say that.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:22 pm

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
Isaac Asimov, Column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Jeff V » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:39 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:26 am
Trump issued another rallying cry to the cult last night, telling them "it will be your fault if I get impeached."
President Donald Trump sought to heighten the sense of urgency for his base Thursday when he told supporters that if he is impeached, "it's your fault, 'cause you didn't go out to vote."

Trump has discussed the prospect of being impeached before, but his comments come after a whirlwind week raised fresh questions about his fitness for office and control over his administration.

"You didn't go out to vote -- that's the only way it could happen," Trump said during a rally in Billings, Montana.

"I'll be the only President in history they'll say: 'What a job he's done! By the way, we're impeaching him,'" Trump said.

"This election, you aren't just voting for a candidate, you are voting for which party controls Congress," the President said. "Very important thing. Very important thing."
Homer Simpson wrote:It's everyone's fault but mine.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:51 pm

I like how he mansplains that their vote is also about congress.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:54 pm

I would love to see how many write-in votes he gets on random contests.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by hepcat » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:40 pm

Obama's speech today was a stark reminder of just how far we've fallen as a nation. And of course, baby orange simply replied with "I fell asleep" instead of just once not having to go nuts over any criticism at all.

Also, nice reminder by Obama that Trump's economy isn't really Trump's economy. :lol:
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:41 pm


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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:46 pm

hepcat wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:40 pm
Obama's speech today was a stark reminder of just how far we've fallen as a nation. And of course, baby orange simply replied with "I fell asleep" instead of just once not having to go nuts over any criticism at all.

Also, nice reminder by Obama that Trump's economy isn't really Trump's economy. :lol:
He (drumpf) is such a giant cock of a human being. I hope Obama is the last thing he sees on his death bed and he dies stammering uselessly. I have never hated anyone this much in my life (which is not to say there aren't others more worth of my hate). Just get him out of office so I don't have to hear from his sick, damaged psyche any more.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Blackhawk » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:39 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:46 pm
I hope Obama is the last thing he sees on his death bed and he dies stammering uselessly.
Image
[This space left intentionally blank.]

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Grifman » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:19 pm

This just totally anecdotal but I think Trumpster's are slowly being overwhelmed, if based upon my Facebook feed. I have a number of Trumpers as friends and used to regularly see a bunch of stupid pro-Trump stuff. Other than one fanatic who posts/shares 3 or 4 things a day, it's almost dried up. There were a couple of half hearted attempts to defend his actions during the McCain funeral, but otherwise it's been almost totally quiet. There was one post about Trump not being a facist, and I promptly posted a dozen examples of Trump's authoritarian tendencies. Normally, that person has a ton of Trumpsters as friends and they always respond whenever I post a response. This time, all quiet, not a single response. Even the Supreme Court hearings are drawing no response, which is very different from the Gorsuch hearings. They may still support him because they just can't admit they made a stupid choice, but I think the enthusiasm is way down. I saw that in the recent Trump rallies - they don't seem, at least to me, to be generating as much heat as in the past. I think we are past "peak Trump".
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:42 pm

The power of anecdotes. I'm seeing the exact opposite. I saw several of my Trumpster aligned 'friends' tweeting about the sentencing today, several posts about the Nike campaign, and screeds about the traitor in the WH. We'll have to see what happens when people vote.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:45 pm

I, uh, WTF? You want to have a tech meeting w/o CA, WA and NY? Are you out of your mind?
U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions first announced on Wednesday that he was gathering state attorneys general to examine whether companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter are “intentionally stifling the free exchange of ideas” online. The goal of the meeting, the Justice Department said in a statement at the time, is to follow up on a hearing that had just taken place on Capitol Hill with Facebook and Twitter and consult with "a number" of states to figure out if Silicon Valley's conduct is "hurting competition." The meeting is tentatively scheduled for Sept. 25 in Washington.

Democratic attorneys general from California and New York — two tech hubs — as well as officials from Connecticut and Washington, which are active on issues related to technology, consumer protection and antitrust, so far have not been invited, representatives for each state confirmed this week.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Max Peck » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:53 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:45 pm
I, uh, WTF? You want to have a tech meeting w/o CA, WA and NY? Are you out of your mind?
U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions first announced on Wednesday that he was gathering state attorneys general to examine whether companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter are “intentionally stifling the free exchange of ideas” online. The goal of the meeting, the Justice Department said in a statement at the time, is to follow up on a hearing that had just taken place on Capitol Hill with Facebook and Twitter and consult with "a number" of states to figure out if Silicon Valley's conduct is "hurting competition." The meeting is tentatively scheduled for Sept. 25 in Washington.

Democratic attorneys general from California and New York — two tech hubs — as well as officials from Connecticut and Washington, which are active on issues related to technology, consumer protection and antitrust, so far have not been invited, representatives for each state confirmed this week.
It isn't about the technology, it's about subverting the technology. It stands to reason that he's not going to invite anyone who isn't on board with the administration's agenda.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:53 pm

I wonder if they are up to no good.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Chaz » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:49 pm

Man, it's almost like they shadow banned people from that meeting. Crazy.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kurth » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:41 am

RunningMn9 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:15 pm
Kurth wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:44 am
Not solely, but the Willie Horton ad was one of the first things that sprang to my mind when thinking about the GOP’s history of weaponizing fear and ignorance. Also, it wasn’t just “an attack ad.” It was an attack ad purposefully designed to work off racial animus.

If that’s not the kind of weaponization of fear and ignorance you were talking about, please clue me in. Not sure what you appear to be so pissed off about. I thought I was agreeing with you, no?
My apologies. Something internally snapped and I apparently lost my goddamn mind.

From a more rational place, when I am talking about the weaponization of fear and ignorance, it's not negative political ads that I'm talking about. Even negative ads based on racial animus. I'm talking specifically about the rise of the anti-intellectualism that took over the party as the Christian Coalition and evangelicals rose to prominence within the party. This has laid the foundation for the majority of the base being willing and able to ignore everything in front of them to cling to what they believe. And then the rise of conservative talk radio and Fox News that has basically been inducing a 24/'7 panic attack in their listeners and viewers for decades, priming them for the appearance of a demagogue that will promise to make them safe from all the boogeymen that they've been busy creating for decades.

Trump is the obvious consequence of this strategy. Not Trump specifically, but someone like Trump. We just happened to get the cataclysmically shittiest conceivable version of this on the first go.

The issue isn't conservative thought, or conservative principles. The issue is the elements within the Republican Party that have nothing to do with conservatism outside of the fact that it's just become a meaningless label that they use to identify as their tribe. You can tell this by their laments that people like Bill Kristol aren't true conservatives. They have no idea what the term means. But THEY are the Republican Party now. Not conservatives.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Smoove_B » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:21 am

Further proof we're all on a TV show:
President Donald Trump said Friday that the ongoing investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election is not only bad for the country, it's "really, really unfair for the midterms."

...

"We have to get it over with. It's really bad for the country. It's really unfair for our midterms. Really, really unfair for the midterms," Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One. "This thing should have been over with a long time ago."

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Max Peck » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:18 pm

Well, the last time there was an FBI investigation ongoing during an election it did seem that at least one candidate was perhaps unfairly treated, so I can see where Trump is coming from.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LordMortis » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:35 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:21 am
Further proof we're all on a TV show:
President Donald Trump said Friday that the ongoing investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election is not only bad for the country, it's "really, really unfair for the midterms."

...

"We have to get it over with. It's really bad for the country. It's really unfair for our midterms. Really, really unfair for the midterms," Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One. "This thing should have been over with a long time ago."

What does that even mean? It's unfair that person after person being investigated is pleading guilty to major white collar criminal activities? It's unfair that person after person are being caught in lie after lie? Maybe he means it's unfair that his family aren't in jail along with Nunes and Gowdy and Gaetz and DeSantis and...
Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:45 pm
I, uh, WTF? You want to have a tech meeting w/o CA, WA and NY? Are you out of your mind?
U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions first announced on Wednesday that he was gathering state attorneys general to examine whether companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter are “intentionally stifling the free exchange of ideas” online. The goal of the meeting, the Justice Department said in a statement at the time, is to follow up on a hearing that had just taken place on Capitol Hill with Facebook and Twitter and consult with "a number" of states to figure out if Silicon Valley's conduct is "hurting competition." The meeting is tentatively scheduled for Sept. 25 in Washington.

Democratic attorneys general from California and New York — two tech hubs — as well as officials from Connecticut and Washington, which are active on issues related to technology, consumer protection and antitrust, so far have not been invited, representatives for each state confirmed this week.
I don't want to go after Sessions because for all of my dislike of the man, he's made a lot of right calls. At the same time, how is it only now after rooting all of the "conservative think tank" political corruption no thanks to the DOJ, that is only now important to examine the importance of "the free exchange of ideas"through major social media corporations, and when do they take examine the grandfather or them all, Fox News?
Last edited by LordMortis on Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LordMortis » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:44 pm

malchior wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:42 pm
several posts about the Nike campaign,
/wonders if that is the well that is being gone to now as that seems to be the big stand in I see for all all of that GOP greatness declarations from early 2017. They don't seem to know how to find their own positive but they still know how to get rally together to get in the mud over mutual hatred and Nike is the current waypoint I see.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Defiant » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:59 pm


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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:35 pm
I don't want to go after Sessions because for all of my dislike of the man, he's made a lot of right calls.
This is just par for the course with Sessions.

In any other context besides a drumpf WH, Sessions is a complete villain. I hope his time comes, but I doubt it will.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Skinypupy » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:27 am

LordMortis wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:35 pm
U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions first announced on Wednesday that he was gathering state attorneys general to examine whether companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter are “intentionally stifling the free exchange of ideas” online.
In Trumplandia, I can only assume that "Intentionally stifling the free exchange of ideas online" translates to "we don't seem to hear enough people praising us". The fact they never do anything praiseworthy is entirely beside the point.

They feel that unless any criticism is somehow met with an equal amount of praise, then people are getting "intentionally stifled".
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by milo » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:06 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:35 pm
President Donald Trump said Friday that the ongoing investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election is not only bad for the country, it's "really, really unfair for the midterms."
What does that even mean? It's unfair that person after person being investigated is pleading guilty to major white collar criminal activities? It's unfair that person after person are being caught in lie after lie?
It means:

"It's unfair that everyone lies and commits crimes all the time, but you're only finding the crimes my team committed right before the elections. Everyone I know lies all the time. Except me, of course. Everyone else. So obviously the other side lies all the time. Especially when they say I'm lying. Anyway, why don't you investigate them for a change. You know, like you did last election."

Does that help?
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by em2nought » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:21 am

Grifman wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:19 pm
This just totally anecdotal but I think Trumpster's are slowly being overwhelmed
Haven't you heard? Gun sales are back up, Trumpketeers have just grown tired of talking and have gone back to stockpiling arms and ammunition. Probably had something to do with Obama opening his pie hole this week. :wink:
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GungHo » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:44 am

em2nought wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:21 am
Grifman wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:19 pm
This just totally anecdotal but I think Trumpster's are slowly being overwhelmed
Haven't you heard? Gun sales are back up, Trumpketeers have just grown tired of talking and have gone back to stockpiling arms and ammunition. Probably had something to do with Obama opening his pie hole this week. :wink:
Enlarge Image

Ok...I'll bite. So do you mean that trumpkins are going to kill Obama? Or just democrats? Or with their semi automatics they're going to overthrow the govt and all their tanks and F35 fighter planes?
That's a very...odd?...set of statements.
OR
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by hepcat » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:45 am

“Jokingly” wishing for the deaths of minorities, immigrants and anyone else he views as the enemy of his orange master is sort of nought’s wheelhouse.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by $iljanus » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:08 am

GungHo wrote:
em2nought wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:21 am
Grifman wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:19 pm
This just totally anecdotal but I think Trumpster's are slowly being overwhelmed
Haven't you heard? Gun sales are back up, Trumpketeers have just grown tired of talking and have gone back to stockpiling arms and ammunition. Probably had something to do with Obama opening his pie hole this week. :wink:
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Ok...I'll bite. So do you mean that trumpkins are going to kill Obama? Or just democrats? Or with their semi automatics they're going to overthrow the govt and all their tanks and F35 fighter planes?
That's a very...odd?...set of statements.
Probably they're getting ready for the midterm elections. Not too long ago Trump did say this at a meeting with evangelical church leaders:

"If the GOP loses, he said, "they will overturn everything that we've done and they'll do it quickly and violently, and violently. There's violence. When you look at Antifa and you look at some of these groups — these are violent people."
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:13 am

It's more that they're afraid a blue wave will mean tighter restrictions/new firearm bans. So buy it now before you can't buy it later. It's mostly fear marketing but it works.
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Kraken
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:57 am

$iljanus wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:08 am

Not too long ago Trump did say this at a meeting with evangelical church leaders:

"If the GOP loses, he said, "they will overturn everything that we've done and they'll do it quickly and violently, and violently. There's violence. When you look at Antifa and you look at some of these groups — these are violent people."
As the meme asked, "What are we going to do, throw our NPR totes at them?"

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$iljanus
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by $iljanus » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:02 am

Kraken wrote:
$iljanus wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:08 am

Not too long ago Trump did say this at a meeting with evangelical church leaders:

"If the GOP loses, he said, "they will overturn everything that we've done and they'll do it quickly and violently, and violently. There's violence. When you look at Antifa and you look at some of these groups — these are violent people."
As the meme asked, "What are we going to do, throw our NPR totes at them?"
We will kill them!... With kindness! And a kickass dance party spun by Moby!
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Pyperkub » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:49 pm

More book stuff:
.S. President Donald Trump promised Monday that he would “write the real book” to set the record straight on his administration, once again lashing out against veteran Washington reporter Bob Woodward, whose incendiary book about the Trump White House will be released this week.

“The Woodward book is a Joke – just another assault against me, in a barrage of assaults, using now disproven unnamed and anonymous sources. Many have already come forward to say the quotes by them, like the book, are fiction,” Trump tweeted on Monday morning. “Dems can’t stand losing. I’ll write the real book!”
Of course, this only gets published as a picture book due to Trump's vocabulary if he doesn't use a ghostwriter... ;)
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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