Fundraising for 2019/2020: 12 Month renewal is up Oct 21/2019. $1337.51 USD of roughly $1700 USD (CDN conversion) as of Sept 1/2019. Paypal Donation Link Here

The Trump Presidency Thread

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46499
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri May 24, 2019 9:55 am

LordMortis wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:49 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 am
In any sane, rational universe, Pelosi is just another greedy, career politician getting rich off "public service." In this Trumpiverse hell, she is Obi-Wan, seemingly our only hope.


I mean it sucks that she is being held up as this shield of righteousness because she indeed a shield of [relative] righteousness but she's also Nancy Pelosi.
She was not on my list of people I was happy with until 2016. But I have to say I believe she has stepped up to plate and is doing the best I could expect from the standpoint of working in the law against people who refuse to. I am pleasantly surprised.
It's admirable when people step up in a crisis and she is definitely doing so. It doesn't necessarily change their character though. Rudy Giuliani stepped up to become "America's Mayor", and he'll always have that, but he's still Rudy Guliani.

Just never forget who you're putting all your hope behind.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32684
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by El Guapo » Fri May 24, 2019 10:28 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:55 am
LordMortis wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:49 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 am
In any sane, rational universe, Pelosi is just another greedy, career politician getting rich off "public service." In this Trumpiverse hell, she is Obi-Wan, seemingly our only hope.


I mean it sucks that she is being held up as this shield of righteousness because she indeed a shield of [relative] righteousness but she's also Nancy Pelosi.
She was not on my list of people I was happy with until 2016. But I have to say I believe she has stepped up to plate and is doing the best I could expect from the standpoint of working in the law against people who refuse to. I am pleasantly surprised.
It's admirable when people step up in a crisis and she is definitely doing so. It doesn't necessarily change their character though. Rudy Giuliani stepped up to become "America's Mayor", and he'll always have that, but he's still Rudy Guliani.

Just never forget who you're putting all your hope behind.
Are you unhappy with the Pelosi that got Obamacare passed? Or the Pelosi that got cap and trade passed? Or is it the part where she got the stimulus bill passed?

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46499
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri May 24, 2019 10:41 am

El Guapo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:28 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:55 am
LordMortis wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:49 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 am
In any sane, rational universe, Pelosi is just another greedy, career politician getting rich off "public service." In this Trumpiverse hell, she is Obi-Wan, seemingly our only hope.


I mean it sucks that she is being held up as this shield of righteousness because she indeed a shield of [relative] righteousness but she's also Nancy Pelosi.
She was not on my list of people I was happy with until 2016. But I have to say I believe she has stepped up to plate and is doing the best I could expect from the standpoint of working in the law against people who refuse to. I am pleasantly surprised.
It's admirable when people step up in a crisis and she is definitely doing so. It doesn't necessarily change their character though. Rudy Giuliani stepped up to become "America's Mayor", and he'll always have that, but he's still Rudy Guliani.

Just never forget who you're putting all your hope behind.
Are you unhappy with the Pelosi that got Obamacare passed? Or the Pelosi that got cap and trade passed? Or is it the part where she got the stimulus bill passed?
No, though cap and trade is stupid as implemented and I wouldn't agree she singlehandedly got the others passed, but even if they were all due to her efforts alone that doesn't make her our patron saint of Saving the Union. She's as self-serving as the rest of them and all this faith in her judgement on impeachment simply because she was announced Speaker is misplaced, IMO.


She is very good at horse trading and getting votes. She deserves the position. I just don't think that makes her infallible.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32684
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by El Guapo » Fri May 24, 2019 10:42 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:41 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:28 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:55 am
LordMortis wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:49 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 am
In any sane, rational universe, Pelosi is just another greedy, career politician getting rich off "public service." In this Trumpiverse hell, she is Obi-Wan, seemingly our only hope.


I mean it sucks that she is being held up as this shield of righteousness because she indeed a shield of [relative] righteousness but she's also Nancy Pelosi.
She was not on my list of people I was happy with until 2016. But I have to say I believe she has stepped up to plate and is doing the best I could expect from the standpoint of working in the law against people who refuse to. I am pleasantly surprised.
It's admirable when people step up in a crisis and she is definitely doing so. It doesn't necessarily change their character though. Rudy Giuliani stepped up to become "America's Mayor", and he'll always have that, but he's still Rudy Guliani.

Just never forget who you're putting all your hope behind.
Are you unhappy with the Pelosi that got Obamacare passed? Or the Pelosi that got cap and trade passed? Or is it the part where she got the stimulus bill passed?
No, though cap and trade is stupid as implemented and I wouldn't she singlehandedly got the others passed. but even if they were all due to her efforts alone that doesn't make her our patron saint of Saving the Union. She's as self-serving as the rest of them and all this faith in her judgement on impeachment simply because she was announced Speaker is misplaced, IMO.
How specifically is she as self-serving as the rest of them?

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46499
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri May 24, 2019 10:49 am

El Guapo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:42 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:41 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:28 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:55 am
LordMortis wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:49 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 am
In any sane, rational universe, Pelosi is just another greedy, career politician getting rich off "public service." In this Trumpiverse hell, she is Obi-Wan, seemingly our only hope.


I mean it sucks that she is being held up as this shield of righteousness because she indeed a shield of [relative] righteousness but she's also Nancy Pelosi.
She was not on my list of people I was happy with until 2016. But I have to say I believe she has stepped up to plate and is doing the best I could expect from the standpoint of working in the law against people who refuse to. I am pleasantly surprised.
It's admirable when people step up in a crisis and she is definitely doing so. It doesn't necessarily change their character though. Rudy Giuliani stepped up to become "America's Mayor", and he'll always have that, but he's still Rudy Guliani.

Just never forget who you're putting all your hope behind.
Are you unhappy with the Pelosi that got Obamacare passed? Or the Pelosi that got cap and trade passed? Or is it the part where she got the stimulus bill passed?
No, though cap and trade is stupid as implemented and I wouldn't she singlehandedly got the others passed. but even if they were all due to her efforts alone that doesn't make her our patron saint of Saving the Union. She's as self-serving as the rest of them and all this faith in her judgement on impeachment simply because she was announced Speaker is misplaced, IMO.
How specifically is she as self-serving as the rest of them?
That's a topic for another thread.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Combustible Lemur
Posts: 3715
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:17 pm
Location: houston, TX
Contact:

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Combustible Lemur » Fri May 24, 2019 10:58 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:28 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:55 am
LordMortis wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:49 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 am
In any sane, rational universe, Pelosi is just another greedy, career politician getting rich off "public service." In this Trumpiverse hell, she is Obi-Wan, seemingly our only hope.


I mean it sucks that she is being held up as this shield of righteousness because she indeed a shield of [relative] righteousness but she's also Nancy Pelosi.
She was not on my list of people I was happy with until 2016. But I have to say I believe she has stepped up to plate and is doing the best I could expect from the standpoint of working in the law against people who refuse to. I am pleasantly surprised.
It's admirable when people step up in a crisis and she is definitely doing so. It doesn't necessarily change their character though. Rudy Giuliani stepped up to become "America's Mayor", and he'll always have that, but he's still Rudy Guliani.

Just never forget who you're putting all your hope behind.
Are you unhappy with the Pelosi that got Obamacare passed? Or the Pelosi that got cap and trade passed? Or is it the part where she got the stimulus bill passed?
No, though cap and trade is stupid as implemented and I wouldn't agree she singlehandedly got the others passed, but even if they were all due to her efforts alone that doesn't make her our patron saint of Saving the Union. She's as self-serving as the rest of them and all this faith in her judgement on impeachment simply because she was announced Speaker is misplaced, IMO.


She is very good at horse trading and getting votes. She deserves the position. I just don't think that makes her infallible.
The faith in her judgment isn't about her just being named speaker. Everywhere I've listened she's widely regarded in democratic circles as one of the most successful and skilled Speakers OTH ever. I don't know enough details to support that, but ACA passed in large part to her whipping votes and "horse trading" for 18 months despite its unpopularity.

Just the other night Nadler who was ope ly for impeachment said he waffles day to day because he sees Pelosi's strategy working. In particular the judicial wins this week. It's frustrating and counter intuitive. But by hard pressing all of the base investigative court battles without impeachment it makes the moment you open impeachment much more efficient and reinforced with less of the policital flotsam in the way.

Shes not scared, she's deliberative and taking the heat for the broader caucas to say what they want and do the work.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Is Scott home? thump thump thump Crash ......No.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46499
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri May 24, 2019 10:59 am

Also, I'm not saying she's the worst of them. She's just not above the fray. She is 1% and she knows it.

What I'm really pointing out is that we are so fucked, Trump is such a failing, that she appears to be a lot closer to being the best answer than she otherwise would.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
YellowKing
Posts: 25501
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by YellowKing » Fri May 24, 2019 11:08 am

I mean, what's our option? She's one of the few adults in the room.

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32684
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by El Guapo » Fri May 24, 2019 11:11 am

Combustible Lemur wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:58 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:28 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:55 am
LordMortis wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:49 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:45 am
In any sane, rational universe, Pelosi is just another greedy, career politician getting rich off "public service." In this Trumpiverse hell, she is Obi-Wan, seemingly our only hope.


I mean it sucks that she is being held up as this shield of righteousness because she indeed a shield of [relative] righteousness but she's also Nancy Pelosi.
She was not on my list of people I was happy with until 2016. But I have to say I believe she has stepped up to plate and is doing the best I could expect from the standpoint of working in the law against people who refuse to. I am pleasantly surprised.
It's admirable when people step up in a crisis and she is definitely doing so. It doesn't necessarily change their character though. Rudy Giuliani stepped up to become "America's Mayor", and he'll always have that, but he's still Rudy Guliani.

Just never forget who you're putting all your hope behind.
Are you unhappy with the Pelosi that got Obamacare passed? Or the Pelosi that got cap and trade passed? Or is it the part where she got the stimulus bill passed?
No, though cap and trade is stupid as implemented and I wouldn't agree she singlehandedly got the others passed, but even if they were all due to her efforts alone that doesn't make her our patron saint of Saving the Union. She's as self-serving as the rest of them and all this faith in her judgement on impeachment simply because she was announced Speaker is misplaced, IMO.


She is very good at horse trading and getting votes. She deserves the position. I just don't think that makes her infallible.
The faith in her judgment isn't about her just being named speaker. Everywhere I've listened she's widely regarded in democratic circles as one of the most successful and skilled Speakers OTH ever. I don't know enough details to support that, but ACA passed in large part to her whipping votes and "horse trading" for 18 months despite its unpopularity.

Just the other night Nadler who was ope ly for impeachment said he waffles day to day because he sees Pelosi's strategy working. In particular the judicial wins this week. It's frustrating and counter intuitive. But by hard pressing all of the base investigative court battles without impeachment it makes the moment you open impeachment much more efficient and reinforced with less of the policital flotsam in the way.

Shes not scared, she's deliberative and taking the heat for the broader caucas to say what they want and do the work.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I'm always curious to know the basis for anti-Pelosi sentiment (beyond two decades-ish of GOP attack ads) because my sense is the same - she's widely regarded as a tremendously effective caucus leader. Not that she's a saint or anything, but as a political leader I'm not sure one could do much better.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46499
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri May 24, 2019 11:16 am

YellowKing wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:08 am
I mean, what's our option? She's one of the few adults in the room.
Hold our nose, let it play out, but don't jump on her bandwagon.

And they're all adults. Some are just better actors than others, and some are just kind of dumb. But even "enemies" like Trump and Pelosi partied together back in the day. Don't forget that.
But they don’t really need to. Trump and Pelosi go way back, from the time she first showed up at Trump Tower fundraising for the Democrats long before he would become president or she the House speaker. Two big-name heirs to big-city honchos — Trump and Pelosi each had fathers who were political power players in their home towns — they’ve rubbed elbows on the Manhattan social scene for years.
They are not like us.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 40570
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Fri May 24, 2019 11:27 am

What has "she's not like us" got to do with it? Also, I don't know what that means in this context. She's a career politician and everything that goes along with that. Does that make her the enemy? Does that make any career politician the enemy?

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 61035
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LordMortis » Fri May 24, 2019 11:39 am

El Guapo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:11 am
I'm always curious to know the basis for anti-Pelosi sentiment. a sophist, trying to score weird BBS points.
I can't speak for others but Pelosi wasn't in my lexicon until Congress tried to play it both ways under Bush the younger. They used going to war with Iraq because Al Queda as a poker chip and Pelosi was the chief poker player at the table. They used him as a sparring partner to protest and support the Iraq Part III at the same time.

So my decade of not liking Pelosi that has built to 2016 from 2006(?) where I am pleasantly surprised that I can support and even endorse her actions.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46499
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri May 24, 2019 11:46 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:27 am
What has "she's not like us" got to do with it? Also, I don't know what that means in this context. She's a career politician and everything that goes along with that. Does that make her the enemy? Does that make any career politician the enemy?
"They," not "she." Not her specifically but he elite class in general. She has more in common with Trump than you or I. Is that necessarily a bad thing? No, they're both individuals. But it sure puts all this back and forth of the past few days in a different light.

Career politicians aren't the enemy. A Congress full of them isn't the answer either. Look what it has gotten us. Someone might argue that Trump and our current dysfunctional situation is an aberration. I'd argue that it's the culmination of few decades worth of career politicians putting party above country and self above duty. That Trump is even in office is an indictment of the system and that the legislative branch allows this farce to continue is an indictment of everyone in it.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 32684
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by El Guapo » Fri May 24, 2019 12:03 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:39 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:11 am
I'm always curious to know the basis for anti-Pelosi sentiment. a sophist, trying to score weird BBS points.
I can't speak for others but Pelosi wasn't in my lexicon until Congress tried to play it both ways under Bush the younger. They used going to war with Iraq because Al Queda as a poker chip and Pelosi was the chief poker player at the table. They used him as a sparring partner to protest and support the Iraq Part III at the same time.

So my decade of not liking Pelosi that has built to 2016 from 2006(?) where I am pleasantly surprised that I can support and even endorse her actions.
I'm confused. Pelosi wasn't speaker until 5 years after we went to war with Iraq. How could she have been the chief poker player at the table? And what's Iraq Part III?

User avatar
Combustible Lemur
Posts: 3715
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:17 pm
Location: houston, TX
Contact:

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Combustible Lemur » Fri May 24, 2019 12:04 pm


LawBeefaroni wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:27 am
What has "she's not like us" got to do with it? Also, I don't know what that means in this context. She's a career politician and everything that goes along with that. Does that make her the enemy? Does that make any career politician the enemy?
"They," not "she." Not her specifically but he elite class in general. She has more in common with Trump than you or I. Is that necessarily a bad thing? No, they're both individuals. But it sure puts all this back and forth of the past few days in a different light.

Career politicians aren't the enemy. A Congress full of them isn't the answer either. Look what it has gotten us. Someone might argue that Trump and our current dysfunctional situation is an aberration. I'd argue that it's the culmination of few decades worth of career politicians putting party above country and self above duty. That Trump is even in office is an indictment of the system and that the legislative branch allows this farce to continue is an indictment of everyone in it.
The legislative branch isn't really letting it continue though. Mitch McConnell and the leadership of the Republican party has consolidated power in such a way that yes they fit the above description.

While yes there is institutional corruption on the left. As a general trend they are making m progress. Mueller has what, twelve convictions? New York, and Virginia both have a myriad of active investigations. The democratic convention got woken by the loss of Clinton. Organized, came out, voted in New power in the house and have since been dogged and methodical in their pursuit of oversite. Don't let the frustrating pace of governance fool you. That is what Trump and Mconnell bank on. People like you getting frustrated and screaming THEY ALL SUCK. Schiff, Naddler, Pelosi, Mueller, the courts they are working they are pushing and the new senators are doing work and pushing. I don't think that definitely means we're going to win, but incremental progress suggests the institutions are holding.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Is Scott home? thump thump thump Crash ......No.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46499
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri May 24, 2019 12:34 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:04 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:27 am
What has "she's not like us" got to do with it? Also, I don't know what that means in this context. She's a career politician and everything that goes along with that. Does that make her the enemy? Does that make any career politician the enemy?
"They," not "she." Not her specifically but he elite class in general. She has more in common with Trump than you or I. Is that necessarily a bad thing? No, they're both individuals. But it sure puts all this back and forth of the past few days in a different light.

Career politicians aren't the enemy. A Congress full of them isn't the answer either. Look what it has gotten us. Someone might argue that Trump and our current dysfunctional situation is an aberration. I'd argue that it's the culmination of few decades worth of career politicians putting party above country and self above duty. That Trump is even in office is an indictment of the system and that the legislative branch allows this farce to continue is an indictment of everyone in it.
The legislative branch isn't really letting it continue though. Mitch McConnell and the leadership of the Republican party has consolidated power in such a way that yes they fit the above description.

While yes there is institutional corruption on the left. As a general trend they are making m progress. Mueller has what, twelve convictions? New York, and Virginia both have a myriad of active investigations. The democratic convention got woken by the loss of Clinton. Organized, came out, voted in New power in the house and have since been dogged and methodical in their pursuit of oversite. Don't let the frustrating pace of governance fool you. That is what Trump and Mconnell bank on. People like you getting frustrated and screaming THEY ALL SUCK. Schiff, Naddler, Pelosi, Mueller, the courts they are working they are pushing and the new senators are doing work and pushing. I don't think that definitely means we're going to win, but incremental progress suggests the institutions are holding.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I'm not getting frustrated and concluding that they all suck. I came into this thinking they all sucked. I determined that Regan was the lesser of two evils when was 12 and it's been that way ever since for most elections. But I've always participated and have always had an opinion. I have seen it get worse every cycle.

Clearly in this most recent mess we find ourselves in, the Democrats are the lesser evil. I'm not thrilled about it but that's how it is. Not checking out but not letting them off the hook either.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 4577
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Alefroth » Fri May 24, 2019 4:54 pm

I hadn't realized it until I saw it mentioned earlier today, but she's the highest ranking female politician in American history.

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 21272
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman » Fri May 24, 2019 6:02 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:46 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:27 am
What has "she's not like us" got to do with it? Also, I don't know what that means in this context. She's a career politician and everything that goes along with that. Does that make her the enemy? Does that make any career politician the enemy?
"They," not "she." Not her specifically but he elite class in general. She has more in common with Trump than you or I. Is that necessarily a bad thing? No, they're both individuals. But it sure puts all this back and forth of the past few days in a different light.

Career politicians aren't the enemy. A Congress full of them isn't the answer either. Look what it has gotten us. Someone might argue that Trump and our current dysfunctional situation is an aberration. I'd argue that it's the culmination of few decades worth of career politicians putting party above country and self above duty. That Trump is even in office is an indictment of the system and that the legislative branch allows this farce to continue is an indictment of everyone in it.
You can have "career politicians" or you can have a rotating cast of inexperienced politicians entirely controlled by industry lobbyists. Right now that's your choice.

To say that Pelosi has more in common with Trump than with you or me obscures what the two are trying their best to make happen. Don't compare the individuals; compare their agendas.

Trump is an aspiring oligarch. FDR was part of the .1% but opposed oligarchy. They're not the same.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 34231
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken » Fri May 24, 2019 6:17 pm

Plus Pelosi has a keen talent for getting under Trump's orange skin, and evidently enjoys doing so. IDK of any other politician with that gift.

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 38597
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
hepcat’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by hepcat » Fri May 24, 2019 6:22 pm

I'm fairly certain that anyone who disagrees with the Mangerine will get under his skin. Whether or not they enjoy doing so is the question.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46499
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri May 24, 2019 6:41 pm

Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:02 pm


You can have "career politicians" or you can have a rotating cast of inexperienced politicians entirely controlled by industry lobbyists. Right now that's your choice.
That's a false choice. There is a 3rd option, theoretically, the career public servant.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 7698
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Max Peck » Fri May 24, 2019 6:46 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:41 pm
Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:02 pm


You can have "career politicians" or you can have a rotating cast of inexperienced politicians entirely controlled by industry lobbyists. Right now that's your choice.
That's a false choice. There is a 3rd option, theoretically, the career public servant.
I don't think you can vote for the Deep State, though.
Time and tide melt the snowman.

There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
-- The Doctor

Jeff V
Posts: 31535
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Jeff V » Fri May 24, 2019 7:12 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:41 pm
That's a false choice. There is a 3rd option, theoretically, the career public servant.
And there's been a few of those elected of late, we'll see how they do...especially Lightfoot in Chicago. I know it's still early, but her rhetoric and the response from the establishment reminds me a lot of when Jane Byrne was elected. Byrne did not wind up the change agent she was elected to be, so I am skeptical Lightfoot is going to have much success. But I hope she does.

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 21272
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman » Fri May 24, 2019 8:32 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:41 pm
Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:02 pm


You can have "career politicians" or you can have a rotating cast of inexperienced politicians entirely controlled by industry lobbyists. Right now that's your choice.
That's a false choice. There is a 3rd option, theoretically, the career public servant.
Career public servants who must run for office are--by definition--career politicians.

Do you mean political appointees? Who appoints them?

My wife and I are pretty deeply involved in local (city-level) politics. We have several personal friends who've successfully run for office, and we're connected to others who've done the same with varying success or failure. All of them have had to make hard choices based on the realities of running for election, and all of them (at least the ones we support) aspire to do good within the system.

It's easy to dump on everyone elected when you haven't tried to do what it takes to get elected. When you see what it takes, it makes you more understanding of the fact that you can't please everyone even on your own side.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 34231
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken » Fri May 24, 2019 11:19 pm

hepcat wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:22 pm
I'm fairly certain that anyone who disagrees with the Mangerine will get under his skin. Whether or not they enjoy doing so is the question.
Yes, but Nancy does it surgically and effectively. Trump falls for Pelosi's trap.
The House speaker has spent the last two days provoking Trump, questioning his self-confidence, condescendingly confiding that she prays for him and suggesting a "family intervention."

The President's wild, improvised response Thursday suggests that so far, the speaker is winning the hugely consequential clash between Washington's top two political forces.

It's not often that Trump, the man who dismembered the most talented Republican primary field in years in 2016, seems to be struggling for traction in a face-to-face political fight.

But Pelosi is turning Trump's own arsenal against him, using the politics of mockery and provocation to leave him for once, off balance and forced to respond to a more nimble rival.
Trump swats most of them away. She's really good at it.

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 40570
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Fri May 24, 2019 11:30 pm

Meh, CNN isn't exactly unbiased in their reporting of the drumpf administration, although I have no reason to believe they aren't accurate in this case. I said, like 2 years ago, I could absolutely destroy him in a war of words, petty insults and putdowns, and I'm not even particularly talented at it. It's frustrating to watch him get away with stuff that your average school boy would turn around and stuff down his throat. Apparently all his targets have never been an average school boy before. Exasperating.

And that's all improv. I would expect an entire political party to have a full blown psychological war plan in place by now, particularly given how weak and vulnerable drumpf is. His skin is so thin it's translucent (as I've enjoyed saying on more than 1 occasion).

While I like the "praying for him" and such, it's not really particularly clever or well thought out. That it is getting to him anyway just shows how teetering on the brink his self esteem is. Equally illustrative is how easily influenced he is by empty words of flattery from foreign dignitaries. He's what you get when the small council decides to have a moronic figurehead while the real power lies elsewhere.

I will say that drumpf has to care what the person in question thinks. He wants legitimacy, and anyone in a position to deny it to him is a major problem for him. It's why some can criticize him and no reaction (at least in public) from him, while a mild slight from someone more important will elicit disproportional rage tweets.

Of course, he thinks SNL and Baldwin are relevant, so what do I know?

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 34231
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken » Sat May 25, 2019 12:16 am

I don't link (or even read) CNN very often, but when they're right I don't hold their identity against them.

Pelosi might not be as good at baiting Trump as you are, but she's better than anybody else in the business right now. Biden might give her a run for her money. We already know that Trump fears Biden, and bullies back down when they're afraid. He probably just doesn't know what to make of Pelosi. Smart, powerful women are baffling.

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 40570
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Sat May 25, 2019 2:15 am

Kraken wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 12:16 am
I don't link (or even read) CNN very often, but when they're right I don't hold their identity against them.
Yeah, I mostly took exception to their characterization of the battle of wills going on. Both that Pelosi is an artful master of mental warfare and that drumpf is running scared (at least to the extent CNN is suggesting).

It's not the facts that I'm meh'ing, it's the bias in their tone and treatment of one side vs the other. Which is fine, I'm just not as sold as some might be. I tend to heavily discount anything that is opinion based in the media, *especially* opinions put forth along side facts in an attempt to camouflage that opinion as part of the facts being reported. If an article is opinion, great, I know what I'm getting. When the article is about something substantive, I don't want to hear it characterized. I can do that myself, thank you very much. I don't need you (article writer you) to tell me how to feel about them. If they want to speculate, then that should be identified beforehand as well. I'm not opposed to speculation, I just don't want it delivered as fact with colourful adjectives and adverbs giving it a certain tone that is leading me by my nose. CNN is particularly bad for that right now, and of course that's one of Fox's core values, so they are mostly useless on politics anyway.

I like the narrative that drumpf is running scared from a powerful woman, and I'm certain that he is struggling with how to handle her, and I suspect the fact that she's a woman is messing with his head, but we'll have to see how this plays out. She's been messing with him since day one (and occasionally treating him like an adult, which always turns out to be a mistake in that he never responds as one. I wonder if she does that intentionally to put him off guard?).

Tantrums behind closed doors or on twitter are nothing new. We need some full blown irrational rage quiting in front of the camera for me to really give Pelosi some serious kudos.

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 40570
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Sat May 25, 2019 2:18 am

For the record I've had about enough opinion from both sides to last me a couple of decades. I don't really care what anyone *feels* is true any more, on either side.

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 21272
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman » Sat May 25, 2019 8:42 pm

Trump is really impressive at getting out there and achieving new lows.



Chairman Kim = good
"Joe Bidan" = bad

MAGA
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 34231
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken » Sat May 25, 2019 10:52 pm

The tweet is gone. I presume it was this. Just another deranged day from our CinC.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 39819
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Smoove_B » Sat May 25, 2019 10:58 pm

Yeah, he deleted it to correct spelling errors - because that was the problem with what he posted.

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 46499
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sun May 26, 2019 3:56 am

Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:32 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:41 pm
Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:02 pm


You can have "career politicians" or you can have a rotating cast of inexperienced politicians entirely controlled by industry lobbyists. Right now that's your choice.
That's a false choice. There is a 3rd option, theoretically, the career public servant.
Career public servants who must run for office are--by definition--career politicians.

Do you mean political appointees? Who appoints them?

My wife and I are pretty deeply involved in local (city-level) politics. We have several personal friends who've successfully run for office, and we're connected to others who've done the same with varying success or failure. All of them have had to make hard choices based on the realities of running for election, and all of them (at least the ones we support) aspire to do good within the system.

It's easy to dump on everyone elected when you haven't tried to do what it takes to get elected. When you see what it takes, it makes you more understanding of the fact that you can't please everyone even on your own side.
I don't mean appointees. And let's say I mean Politicians with a capital "P" as opposed to the dictionaty defiinition.

My wife currently holds an elected city position and I have a few friends who have held elected positions (and that's not counting judges who are different animals entirely). I have a fair idea what it takes to get elected and re-elected. Another one of my friends is an extremely active political operative here in Chicago and I get all the gory details.

I'm still fairly comfortable dumping on politicians. Especially the US Congress.

Though state reps are dumpable too. A few gems from that arena: A Missouri State Rep left his house cufflinks at my house once after crashing here. Apparently they're good for picking up chicks. He was in town with his wife.

I was once seated at a wedding reception table with Steve Nunn (pre-murder of course). Consummate Politician.



Am I overly cynical and pessimistic? Probably. Do I care too much about moral character? Maybe.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

GungHo
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
Location: Second star to the right

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GungHo » Sun May 26, 2019 3:08 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 3:56 am
Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:32 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:41 pm
Holman wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:02 pm


You can have "career politicians" or you can have a rotating cast of inexperienced politicians entirely controlled by industry lobbyists. Right now that's your choice.
That's a false choice. There is a 3rd option, theoretically, the career public servant.
Career public servants who must run for office are--by definition--career politicians.

Do you mean political appointees? Who appoints them?

My wife and I are pretty deeply involved in local (city-level) politics. We have several personal friends who've successfully run for office, and we're connected to others who've done the same with varying success or failure. All of them have had to make hard choices based on the realities of running for election, and all of them (at least the ones we support) aspire to do good within the system.

It's easy to dump on everyone elected when you haven't tried to do what it takes to get elected. When you see what it takes, it makes you more understanding of the fact that you can't please everyone even on your own side.
I don't mean appointees. And let's say I mean Politicians with a capital "P" as opposed to the dictionaty defiinition.

My wife currently holds an elected city position and I have a few friends who have held elected positions (and that's not counting judges who are different animals entirely). I have a fair idea what it takes to get elected and re-elected. Another one of my friends is an extremely active political operative here in Chicago and I get all the gory details.

I'm still fairly comfortable dumping on politicians. Especially the US Congress.

Though state reps are dumpable too. A few gems from that arena: A Missouri State Rep left his house cufflinks at my house once after crashing here. Apparently they're good for picking up chicks. He was in town with his wife.

I was once seated at a wedding reception table with Steve Nunn (pre-murder of course). Consummate Politician.



Am I overly cynical and pessimistic? Probably. Do I care too much about moral character? Maybe.

I'm helping to derail the thread here, but I couldn't agree more.

They're all shit. trump is obviously the worst of the bunch but not a one of them is there bc they 'want to serve the country' or some other bs. They're all power hungry narcissists who saw a chance at personal glory and gain. Nobody works as hard as those ppl work if u don't see personal gain in it. And by 'working' of course I mean getting (re)elected.

I'm down with the moral character stance too...I don't think ppl of shitty character generally make effective leaders.
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

-Hiccup

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 40570
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Sun May 26, 2019 6:29 pm

Also, I hear all civil servants are lazy slackers living off your tax dollars while contributing nothing.

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 34231
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken » Sun May 26, 2019 7:03 pm

Add the occasional special guest appearance by Drazzil, and I'm in.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 39819
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Smoove_B » Mon May 27, 2019 8:05 pm

Since he's in Japan and there's always a Tweet - please enjoy Trump's posting from 3 years ago this month:


Does President Obama ever discuss the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor while he's in Japan? Thousands of American lives lost. #MDW
Amazing, really.

User avatar
Kurth
Posts: 3256
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kurth » Tue May 28, 2019 1:14 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:15 am
Kraken wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 12:16 am
I don't link (or even read) CNN very often, but when they're right I don't hold their identity against them.
Yeah, I mostly took exception to their characterization of the battle of wills going on. Both that Pelosi is an artful master of mental warfare and that drumpf is running scared (at least to the extent CNN is suggesting).

It's not the facts that I'm meh'ing, it's the bias in their tone and treatment of one side vs the other. Which is fine, I'm just not as sold as some might be. I tend to heavily discount anything that is opinion based in the media, *especially* opinions put forth along side facts in an attempt to camouflage that opinion as part of the facts being reported. If an article is opinion, great, I know what I'm getting. When the article is about something substantive, I don't want to hear it characterized. I can do that myself, thank you very much. I don't need you (article writer you) to tell me how to feel about them. If they want to speculate, then that should be identified beforehand as well. I'm not opposed to speculation, I just don't want it delivered as fact with colourful adjectives and adverbs giving it a certain tone that is leading me by my nose. CNN is particularly bad for that right now, and of course that's one of Fox's core values, so they are mostly useless on politics anyway.
I agree. 100%. So tired of opinion masquerading as fact-based news. I don't want to see OUTRAGE from my news reporters. I can generate enough of that on my own, so STFU and report the news already.
The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it -- John Gilmore

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 13465
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Skinypupy » Tue May 28, 2019 5:47 pm

They're really not even attempting to hide it any more, are they?


Kushner Cos. gets about $800 million in federally backed debt to buy apartments in Maryland and Virginia, the company’s biggest purchase in a decade
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 21272
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman » Tue May 28, 2019 6:21 pm


POTUS wrote:I was actually sticking up for Sleepy Joe Biden while on foreign soil. Kim Jong Un called him a “low IQ idiot,” and many other things, whereas I related the quote of Chairman Kim as a much softer “low IQ individual.” Who could possibly be upset with that?
Hamfisted attempt at snark doubles down on everything wrong with the original move.

The president is an asshole.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

Post Reply