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The Trump Presidency Thread

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by msteelers » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:50 am

They could do their job and hold Trump accountable for his obstruction of justice as laid out in the Mueller Report. They could be more aggressive in getting people pulled to testify not just in front of Congress, but in front of the cameras. Or at least do more than have leadership collectively shrug their shoulders.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:51 am

Grifman wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:39 am
malchior wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:41 pm
malchior wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:09 pm
So they are pretty fucking useless but also sadly our only hope.
Correction: They are useful in the sense that they aren't a GOP majority...otherwise fucking useless.
I'm not sure what you expected. They have held "accountability" hearings but Trump is not allowing his people to testify at all. So then you have to go to court to force them to testify and that takes time. There's really not much more you can do. The infighting is not helpful (but every party has this at times), and Ilan Omar needs to stop saying stupid things that Trump and the Republicans can use, but what else can they do (other than impeachment in the House which would be worthless).
They need to focus less on intangible inevitabilities (racism, sexism, me too, etc) and more on the nuts and bolts of governing. Fewer crowd pleasing tweets and more time at their desk and in the field. They cannot beat Trump at his own game. Fortunately, he is an idiot who has surrounded himself with venal theives. There is a weakness in that.

You can't Instagram your way out of this. If I'm the Democratic leadership I ban Twitter. There are plenty of pundits and media personalities handling that anyway. Then I present a unified front. Why are there all these photo ops of AOC solo at detention centers? Why weren't there 10 other reps with her?

Don't counter the Trump cult personalty with an opposing cult. Can't win that way.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by msteelers » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:03 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:51 am
If I'm the Democratic leadership I ban Twitter.
That would be a huge mistake. You have to get your message out to the masses, and Twitter is the easiest and most effective way to do that. You might personally dislike Twitter, but the gatekeepers for all of the traditional media outlets are on there 24/7. By skipping Twitter you effectively cut yourself off from the rest of the media world.

The issue isn't that these candidates and congress critters are on Twitter, it's that they suck at it. The DCCC needs to do a hell of a lot better in training their members how to be effective on social media.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:10 am

msteelers wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:03 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:51 am
If I'm the Democratic leadership I ban Twitter.
That would be a huge mistake. You have to get your message out to the masses, and Twitter is the easiest and most effective way to do that. You might personally dislike Twitter, but the gatekeepers for all of the traditional media outlets are on there 24/7. By skipping Twitter you effectively cut yourself off from the rest of the media world.

The issue isn't that these candidates and congress critters are on Twitter, it's that they suck at it. The DCCC needs to do a hell of a lot better in training their members how to be effective on social media.
Personally I don't care one way or another. I just think they cannot win the Twitter battle.

The alternative is limited/vetted Twitter posting. Not this off the cuff fodder that almost always backfires.

Also, if they hold press conferences (gasp), interviews, and court the media who, as you say, is on Twitter 24-7, they would be "on Twitter" by safely measured proxy.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Grifman » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:46 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:51 am
Grifman wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:39 am
malchior wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:41 pm
malchior wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:09 pm
So they are pretty fucking useless but also sadly our only hope.
Correction: They are useful in the sense that they aren't a GOP majority...otherwise fucking useless.
I'm not sure what you expected. They have held "accountability" hearings but Trump is not allowing his people to testify at all. So then you have to go to court to force them to testify and that takes time. There's really not much more you can do. The infighting is not helpful (but every party has this at times), and Ilan Omar needs to stop saying stupid things that Trump and the Republicans can use, but what else can they do (other than impeachment in the House which would be worthless).
They need to focus less on intangible inevitabilities (racism, sexism, me too, etc) and more on the nuts and bolts of governing. Fewer crowd pleasing tweets and more time at their desk and in the field. They cannot beat Trump at his own game. Fortunately, he is an idiot who has surrounded himself with venal theives. There is a weakness in that.

You can't Instagram your way out of this. If I'm the Democratic leadership I ban Twitter. There are plenty of pundits and media personalities handling that anyway. Then I present a unified front. Why are there all these photo ops of AOC solo at detention centers? Why weren't there 10 other reps with her?

Don't counter the Trump cult personalty with an opposing cult. Can't win that way.
I agree with much of what you have said. I have always believed that they should focus more on putting out legislation that would help the American people - and then PUBLICIZING it. They have done stuff but it is all getting lost in the noise. They should pass laws popular with the public and then point to the Republican Senate as doing nothing.

But that's not what the people I was responding to where talking about. They were complaining that the Democrats had run on holding Trump accountable and and failed at that, therefore they were useless. You're raising a good point but not the one at issue here.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:05 am

Formix wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:20 am
hepcat wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:21 pm
The good news is that they're still some good people out there. The bad news is that they have to shout over Trump's moronic cult of racist, corrupt, hypocritical assholes.
I've come to the gradual realization that roughly a third of humanity are terrible, terrible people. Probably always have been, probably always will be. When you figure that about 5% of the people are sociopaths, 1% are psychopaths, 1% NPD, etc. it's pretty easy to see where we can get to a third pretty fast.
Welcome to the club.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by msteelers » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:48 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:10 am
The alternative is limited/vetted Twitter posting. Not this off the cuff fodder that almost always backfires.
Does it? I can't remember a time where someone paid a serious political price for something they said on Twitter, unless they were tweeting out pictures of their junk. The right says hateful and barbaric things on Twitter all day long. Sure, they push the left further and further away... but their base isn't going anywhere.
Also, if they hold press conferences (gasp), interviews, and court the media who, as you say, is on Twitter 24-7, they would be "on Twitter" by safely measured proxy.
Those happen every day, and yet rarely bubble up to the point where we take notice of them. In order to win elections you have to make a connection with the people. A press conference isn't connecting with anyone in 2019. And when wielded effectively, Twitter can be very powerful. Pelosi is the most powerful Democrat in the country right now, and yet she cannot connect with the modern voter. It's not in her bag of tools. She can wring votes from a stone, but she can't promote an agenda and sell it to the people. AOC and "the squad", whether you like them or not, know how to command the attention of the public. I've tried to ignore them, and can't. They're everywhere. Same thing with Trump. He knows how to command attention. Look at all the free advertising he got in the 2016 election. You can't compete with that with a press conference.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:41 pm

Grifman wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:49 am
Kraken wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:34 pm

The coming election is shaping up to be the one we should have had in 2016: Unless the Dems are foolish enough to put up another Establishment centrist, Americans will be presented with two starkly different futures. Will it be Trump's xenophobic, nationalistic, white supremacist vision of hatred and oppression? or a uniquely American take on inclusionist European-style social democracy? The middle road is closed for repairs; you must choose the high road or the low road. After four years of Trump, our eyes are wide open to the low road. The GOP isn't even pretending otherwise anymore. If we choose to stay on it anyway, we deserve where we're going to end up.
It may be a mistake. An establishment centrist, without the baggage of Hillary would beat Trump. I'm not certain that the country is ready for or really wants a European style social democracy. I am interested in certain aspects but I'm not sure I want all that the left wing of the Democratic Party is selling, nor do I believe most Americans do either. To me this is a risky game the Democrats are playing.

Trump is going to get 45% of the vote, no matter what. The Democrats are going to get 45% of the vote, no matter what. So the question is now do you maximize your share of the last 10%. Trump has a head start there - the economy is going pretty good for most people and Trump can credibly run on that. What are the Democrats going to do to appeal to that same 10%. I'm not sure that European style social democracy all at once is going to get it. This country moves incrementally when it moves. I'm afraid the Dems will turn off the voters they need.
The D path to victory involves (1) inspiring the liberal base to turn out (as Hillary never could do) and (2) drawing new voters from the sidelines (the young and marginalized) to the polls.

After the primaries you will see the D nominee moderate his/her positions to reach those hypothetical persuadable voters. For example, Medicare for All is a clear winner with the D base, but Medicare for More with a cautious phase-in will play better in the general.

Trump's strategy is to inspire white people while making the gang of four the scary brown face of the D Party. He is not trying to appeal to anyone beyond his base.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:59 pm

msteelers wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:48 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:10 am
The alternative is limited/vetted Twitter posting. Not this off the cuff fodder that almost always backfires.
Does it? I can't remember a time where someone paid a serious political price for something they said on Twitter, unless they were tweeting out pictures of their junk. The right says hateful and barbaric things on Twitter all day long. Sure, they push the left further and further away... but their base isn't going anywhere.
For the dems, yes. It's like arguing with 4chan. You cannot win. Fortunately, you can choose not to engage. But I guess the adulation of the echo chamber is too enticing.
msteelers wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:48 am
Also, if they hold press conferences (gasp), interviews, and court the media who, as you say, is on Twitter 24-7, they would be "on Twitter" by safely measured proxy.
Those happen every day, and yet rarely bubble up to the point where we take notice of them. In order to win elections you have to make a connection with the people. A press conference isn't connecting with anyone in 2019. And when wielded effectively, Twitter can be very powerful. Pelosi is the most powerful Democrat in the country right now, and yet she cannot connect with the modern voter. It's not in her bag of tools. She can wring votes from a stone, but she can't promote an agenda and sell it to the people. AOC and "the squad", whether you like them or not, know how to command the attention of the public. I've tried to ignore them, and can't. They're everywhere. Same thing with Trump. He knows how to command attention. Look at all the free advertising he got in the 2016 election. You can't compete with that with a press conference.
If we've reached the point that it truly is merely a battle of likes and retweets then I say screw it, I'm out. All hail President Kardashian. We get what we deserve.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by msteelers » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:07 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:59 pm
If we've reached the point that it truly is merely a battle of likes and retweets then I say screw it, I'm out. All hail President Kardashian. We get what we deserve.
We elected a reality TV star as President. What do you mean "if"?

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by msteelers » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:14 pm

I'm not saying Twitter is the end-all/be-all of getting the next President elected, or passing any agenda. But ignoring it would be foolish. Nixon didn't take TV seriously, and it played a part in him losing to Kennedy in 1960. Eight years later he's trying to appear hip and cool by appearing on Laugh In. A few months later he's sworn in as President.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:31 pm

Grifman wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:39 am
(other than impeachment in the House which would be worthless).
Impeachment is not worthless and besides the point it doesn't start with impeachment. They start like Nixon did with an impeachment inquiry. The manual was written for them in 1973. That is better than this empty, toothless and weak approach. The man is literally tearing the country apart in front of us and we are hoping on an election that might bring the fire brigade to put out the ashes. This is an urgent crisis.

Passing laws? They already have done that in droves. They can't get that message out because they are terrible at crafting a narrative that sticks.

And killing Twitter? I don't think it does much. While the Dems do occasionally have mechanisms to enforce party discipline they don't really have any real mallets to hit the 'squad' with.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Grifman » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:23 pm

msteelers wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:50 am
They could do their job and hold Trump accountable for his obstruction of justice as laid out in the Mueller Report. They could be more aggressive in getting people pulled to testify not just in front of Congress, but in front of the cameras. Or at least do more than have leadership collectively shrug their shoulders.
Impeachment will do nothing.

And please be more specific. What more do you think they can do to be "more aggressive". That seems rather vague to me - they have subpoenaed and gone to court about refusals. What more do you want them to do?
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:13 pm

Grifman wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:23 pm
msteelers wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:50 am
They could do their job and hold Trump accountable for his obstruction of justice as laid out in the Mueller Report. They could be more aggressive in getting people pulled to testify not just in front of Congress, but in front of the cameras. Or at least do more than have leadership collectively shrug their shoulders.
Impeachment will do nothing.

And please be more specific. What more do you think they can do to be "more aggressive". That seems rather vague to me - they have subpoenaed and gone to court about refusals. What more do you want them to do?
You keep framing this like this is a binary choice. They can do *all of that*. They can still pursue the court cases. They can start an impeachment inquiry. They can take control of the story but instead they let simply stand there while Trump whips up the fires of nationalism and racism. Awesome strategy there. Guess we can hope anything is left afterwards.

Here is a choice about what the media will be talking about all day tomorrow now. Trump continues to control the narrative. He just throws bombs until one explodes and consumes all the oxygen. He does it over and over and the Dems have no strategy to address it.


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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by msteelers » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:47 am

Grifman wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:23 pm
msteelers wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:50 am
They could do their job and hold Trump accountable for his obstruction of justice as laid out in the Mueller Report. They could be more aggressive in getting people pulled to testify not just in front of Congress, but in front of the cameras. Or at least do more than have leadership collectively shrug their shoulders.
Impeachment will do nothing.

And please be more specific. What more do you think they can do to be "more aggressive". That seems rather vague to me - they have subpoenaed and gone to court about refusals. What more do you want them to do?
Pelosi and the rest of leadership have shown they have no idea how to operate in a modern world. They can whip up votes, but that's it. The Mueller Report to any other administration would have been devastating. Instead, Trump and Barr were allowed to sell the notion that the report completely exonerated the President. It clearly did not. It laid out several instances of obstruction of justice. The Dems slow played their hand, and let Trump beat them. It's been three months since the Mueller Report came out, and Mueller still hasn't testified. Sure, he's set to testify next week. For three hours. The day before Congress goes on summer break.

Note I haven't said that they need to be impeaching Trump. But they need to open up the impeachment inquiry.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi believes opening an impeachment inquiry into President Trump’s misdeeds would be risky. She needs to realize that not doing so is beginning to look riskier.

Next week, after former special counsel Robert S. Mueller III testifies before Congress, the impeachment question will demand an answer. Even if Mueller manages not to stray beyond the boundaries of his report, the evidence of impeachable presidential misconduct that his investigators found is clear and compelling. Hearing from Mueller’s lips what amounts to a criminal indictment of the president will surely have more impact than Mueller’s dry and lengthy tome, which few have actually read.

Meanwhile, Trump’s abuse of presidential power, including his open defiance of the judiciary, becomes ever more brazen and alarming. The Supreme Court has no army to enforce its rulings. Only Congress has the power, and the duty, to check a president run amok.

...

In terms of using public hearings to command attention and educate the nation about Trump’s misdeeds, Mueller’s testimony may be as good as it gets — unless the House opens an impeachment inquiry. That could change things dramatically. Congress’s power to investigate would be at its height, and courts would recognize the obvious need to act speedily to enforce properly constituted subpoenas.

...

Beyond the political calculation, there is also the question of what Congress is obliged to do, like it or not.

Mueller’s report provides ample evidence that Trump committed multiple acts of obstruction of justice. Whether Mueller characterizes the report as a road map for impeachment, that’s effectively what it is. Pelosi and other Democrats keep saying that no one is above the law, including the president. But the Justice Department’s view that a sitting president cannot be made to face criminal charges means that Trump is indeed above the law — unless the one body that can hold him accountable, Congress, does its job.

Doesn’t the lawmaking branch of our government have a sacred obligation to uphold the rule of law? After we hear from Mueller, Pelosi and her caucus are going to have to answer that question. Whatever you think of Mueller’s reluctance to draw conclusions, he took his job seriously. Members of the House — beginning with Pelosi — now must do the same.
Pelosi and the house leadership hope that nuance will appeal to voters. But nuance doesn't play in 2019. I don't know if it ever played in this country. You need video. You need a headline. And you need to be able to distill the story down to 30 seconds (140 characters) or less. Anything more than that won't get noticed.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Paingod » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:31 pm

malchior wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:13 pm
He does it over and over and the Dems have no strategy to address it.
What strategy works when someone takes the most aggressive gorilla in the room and gives it live grenades? It's a dinner party the gorilla is attending, and the other guests are all trying to eat dinner. None of them brought a tranq gun. The problem is compounded by the gorilla's handlers cheering it on.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:33 pm

We knew about this crime from the Mueller report. Trump implicated in Cohenbrokered hush money payments but here is the evidence. Another interesting note is Hope Hicks somehow skates on this one.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:42 pm

Just imagine what would have happened if Obama had said this.


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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Alefroth » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:59 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:42 pm
Just imagine what would have happened if Obama had said this.
Shit would have been lost.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LordMortis » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:12 pm

Heh, I think they talk about article 2 a lot.
he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
With regard to tariffs and tax cuts and budget cuts where are all of these billions and billions of dollars going?

If the GDP is going up and more money is being collected and budgets are being slashed then how is the Debt to GDP getting worse?

https://www.thebalance.com/national-deb ... ts-3306287

Of course these things only matter when the Ds are in charge.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Paingod » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:13 am

GungHo wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:34 am
...isn't that all proof that basically we suck? Or a large enough percentage sucks that the rest of us don't matter?
I was wondering about this in the shower. Why do we suck? I think it's because there is so much hate and fear. What's driving people to be hateful and fearful? I know there's always an element of fear of the unknown and prejudices brimming under the surface, but that's been there for centuries and we were on track to evolving past that to a degree and now we're sliding backwards. Right?

My only explanation was the media. Not specifically Fox or CNN, but all of it. We're force-fed a diet of fear on a daily basis to boost ratings. We're exposed to all the worst the world has to offer day in, day out. It's no wonder people are hating more. Trump tapped into that fear by offering to be the bully back against it. The one and only thing he really succeeds at is being a heartless bully... and a lot of people probably feel like they need that kind of person to stand for them against the world after spending their lives seeing every atrocity anyone commits.

Looking at Trump as a symptom of the problem doesn't help address the problem though. He's just an opportunist that struck at the right time. The realist (pessimist) in me sees him as part of a long line of degenerates who are going to exploit the fear the media stokes for their own personal gain. This BS is gaining traction in other countries and not just the US. It seems to be a global problem, and it seems to be getting worse. Mini-Trumps are popping up in governments everywhere. It's a thing now. I think it's going to get worse before it gets better - because that's good for ratings, too.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by msteelers » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:05 am

Paingod wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:13 am
Why do we suck? I think it's because there is so much hate and fear. What's driving people to be hateful and fearful? I know there's always an element of fear of the unknown and prejudices brimming under the surface, but that's been there for centuries and we were on track to evolving past that to a degree and now we're sliding backwards. Right?

My only explanation was the media. Not specifically Fox or CNN, but all of it. We're force-fed a diet of fear on a daily basis to boost ratings. We're exposed to all the worst the world has to offer day in, day out. It's no wonder people are hating more. Trump tapped into that fear by offering to be the bully back against it. The one and only thing he really succeeds at is being a heartless bully... and a lot of people probably feel like they need that kind of person to stand for them against the world after spending their lives seeing every atrocity anyone commits.
The media is a symptom just like Trump is a symptom. You said it yourself, the media plays bad stories to boost ratings. That means they've found that the only way to get people to pay attention to them is to get them outraged.

Here's a survey that asked people which news organizations were biased. It found that PBS, AP, and NPR were the least biased, and Fox News and MSNBC were the most biased.

Enlarge Image

But where do most people get their news? I doubt it's PBS and NPR.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by stessier » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:38 am

That chart is about people's opinions of news sources. That is not at all useful.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by msteelers » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:49 am

stessier wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:38 am
That chart is about people's opinions of news sources. That is not at all useful.
People believe that a news source is biased, and yet choose to watch it anyway while they choose to ignore the news source that they believe is unbiased.

You don't think that's pretty telling of the troubles we face today?

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by stessier » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:55 am

msteelers wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:49 am
stessier wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:38 am
That chart is about people's opinions of news sources. That is not at all useful.
People believe that a news source is biased, and yet choose to watch it anyway while they choose to ignore the news source that they believe is unbiased.

You don't think that's pretty telling of the troubles we face today?
No. As long as you recognize there is a bias, you can act appropriately. A much better/informative chart would combine people's perception of the news sources with an attempt to quantify the actual bias. It would be concerning if people thought NPR was unbiased but it wasn't, for instance.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Grifman » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:23 pm

stessier wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:38 am
That chart is about people's opinions of news sources. That is not at all useful.
It’s extremely useful since in many ways, perception is reality.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:11 pm





Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:42 am



The president of the United States, speaking of an American city. Oh, and look, more racist language.

At this point, any legislator who isn't at the White House standing in line to punch this guy in the face* is a coward.


*I'll take literally or figuratively. Don't care.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Max Peck » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:25 pm

And another one shuffles along...

US intelligence chief leaves Trump administration
The US director of national intelligence, Dan Coats, has become the latest high-profile figure to leave the Trump administration.

President Donald Trump tweeted Mr Coats would step down in mid-August and that he would nominate the Texan congressman John Ratcliffe to replace him.

He said Mr Ratcliffe would lead and "inspire greatness for the country" he loved.

Mr Coats and Mr Trump have often been at odds over Russia and North Korea.

In January the president called his intelligence chiefs passive and naive in their assessment of the threat posed by Iran.

A year ago, Mr Coats laughed in surprise when he heard that the US president was going to meet Russian President Donald Putin for a summit in Finland.

"That's going to be special," said an amused Mr Coats, when he was told the news at a public event.

He later apologised for his reaction, saying "my admittedly awkward response was in no way meant to be disrespectful or criticise the actions of the president".
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by GungHo » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:49 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:25 pm
And another one shuffles along...

US intelligence chief leaves Trump administration
The US director of national intelligence, Dan Coats, has become the latest high-profile figure to leave the Trump administration.

President Donald Trump tweeted Mr Coats would step down in mid-August and that he would nominate the Texan congressman John Ratcliffe to replace him.

He said Mr Ratcliffe would lead and "inspire greatness for the country" he loved.

Mr Coats and Mr Trump have often been at odds over Russia and North Korea.

In January the president called his intelligence chiefs passive and naive in their assessment of the threat posed by Iran.

A year ago, Mr Coats laughed in surprise when he heard that the US president was going to meet Russian President Donald Putin for a summit in Finland.

"That's going to be special," said an amused Mr Coats, when he was told the news at a public event.

He later apologised for his reaction, saying "my admittedly awkward response was in no way meant to be disrespectful or criticise the actions of the president".

Amazing how these fools keep lining up to shovel trump's shit then leave covered in it while he continues to sit untouched on his throne.

Scary to think what the new crop of sycophants in there now will let him get away with, if we believe that this 'old guard' (Mattis, McMaster, Kelly etc) really did try to hamper him.
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Holman » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:27 pm

GungHo wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:49 pm
Amazing how these fools keep lining up to shovel trump's shit then leave covered in it while he continues to sit untouched on his throne.

Scary to think what the new crop of sycophants in there now will let him get away with, if we believe that this 'old guard' (Mattis, McMaster, Kelly etc) really did try to hamper him.
Coats has a reputation for not sucking up to Trump and attempting to keep alive the mission of the intelligence services. He has spoken out against Russian interference and has testified to Congress that it is serious and real.

This is not yet-another-scandal-plagued-departure. Coats' retirement and replacement by a Trump loyalist is a serious threat to the country.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kraken » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:20 pm

Holman wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:27 pm
GungHo wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:49 pm
Amazing how these fools keep lining up to shovel trump's shit then leave covered in it while he continues to sit untouched on his throne.

Scary to think what the new crop of sycophants in there now will let him get away with, if we believe that this 'old guard' (Mattis, McMaster, Kelly etc) really did try to hamper him.
Coats has a reputation for not sucking up to Trump and attempting to keep alive the mission of the intelligence services. He has spoken out against Russian interference and has testified to Congress that it is serious and real.

This is not yet-another-scandal-plagued-departure. Coats' retirement and replacement by a Trump loyalist is a serious threat to the country.
I kind of assumed that what's left of the administrative branch had already been reduced to incompetents who are only there to scavenge the corpse. You're telling me that there are still pockets of professionalism that haven't been rooted out yet?

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Zaxxon » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:33 pm

Kraken wrote:
Holman wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:27 pm
GungHo wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:49 pm
Amazing how these fools keep lining up to shovel trump's shit then leave covered in it while he continues to sit untouched on his throne.

Scary to think what the new crop of sycophants in there now will let him get away with, if we believe that this 'old guard' (Mattis, McMaster, Kelly etc) really did try to hamper him.
Coats has a reputation for not sucking up to Trump and attempting to keep alive the mission of the intelligence services. He has spoken out against Russian interference and has testified to Congress that it is serious and real.

This is not yet-another-scandal-plagued-departure. Coats' retirement and replacement by a Trump loyalist is a serious threat to the country.
I kind of assumed that what's left of the administrative branch had already been reduced to incompetents who are only there to scavenge the corpse. You're telling me that there are still pockets of professionalism that haven't been rooted out yet?
They're working on that.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:17 am

Kraken wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:20 pm
Holman wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:27 pm
GungHo wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:49 pm
Amazing how these fools keep lining up to shovel trump's shit then leave covered in it while he continues to sit untouched on his throne.

Scary to think what the new crop of sycophants in there now will let him get away with, if we believe that this 'old guard' (Mattis, McMaster, Kelly etc) really did try to hamper him.
Coats has a reputation for not sucking up to Trump and attempting to keep alive the mission of the intelligence services. He has spoken out against Russian interference and has testified to Congress that it is serious and real.

This is not yet-another-scandal-plagued-departure. Coats' retirement and replacement by a Trump loyalist is a serious threat to the country.
I kind of assumed that what's left of the administrative branch had already been reduced to incompetents who are only there to scavenge the corpse. You're telling me that there are still pockets of professionalism that haven't been rooted out yet?
Correct. Coats was the real deal and he is being replaced by a loyalist Republican Congressman. His rupported replacement Radcliffe does at least have a national security background but is seen as someone who will bend intelligence to Trumps will. This is indeed likely a threat to national security. His confirmation is going to be a complete shit show.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:15 am

Max Peck wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:25 pm
And another one shuffles along...

US intelligence chief leaves Trump administration
A year ago, Mr Coats laughed in surprise when he heard that the US president was going to meet Russian President Donald Putin for a summit in Finland.

"That's going to be special," said an amused Mr Coats, when he was told the news at a public event.
Wait, he laughed about the fact they Trump was meeting Putin or that it was Donald Putin? Is there a Vladimir Trump? Is the mutual metamorphosis nearly complete?
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by hepcat » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:28 am

I'm hoping that Trump loses in 2020 so that the dem president can jut purge all the Trump cronies out of the administration. I'd like to see Ivanka and Jared actually tarred, feathered and then paraded through the streets to the city limits before being dumped. Trump I want fired out of a canon towards Russia.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by $iljanus » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:18 am

hepcat wrote:I'm hoping that Trump loses in 2020 so that the dem president can jut purge all the Trump cronies out of the administration. I'd like to see Ivanka and Jared actually tarred, feathered and then paraded through the streets to the city limits before being dumped. Trump I want fired out of a canon towards Russia.
I'd like to see this Tarantino like ending for these characters. Barring that, I'll settle for the more mundane ending where numerous state attorney generals go after the Trumps for various crimes, sucking them dry due to legal fees.
tl;dr

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:27 am

$iljanus wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:18 am
hepcat wrote:I'm hoping that Trump loses in 2020 so that the dem president can jut purge all the Trump cronies out of the administration. I'd like to see Ivanka and Jared actually tarred, feathered and then paraded through the streets to the city limits before being dumped. Trump I want fired out of a canon towards Russia.
I'd like to see this Tarantino like ending for these characters. Barring that, I'll settle for the more mundane ending where numerous state attorney generals go after the Trumps for various crimes, sucking them dry due to legal fees.
The whole point of this presidency is to acquire wealth, create escape networks, and build personal protections for the future. The odds of any kind of satisfying ending are slim. And every day that ticks by makes them slimmer.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by $iljanus » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:09 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
$iljanus wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:18 am
hepcat wrote:I'm hoping that Trump loses in 2020 so that the dem president can jut purge all the Trump cronies out of the administration. I'd like to see Ivanka and Jared actually tarred, feathered and then paraded through the streets to the city limits before being dumped. Trump I want fired out of a canon towards Russia.
I'd like to see this Tarantino like ending for these characters. Barring that, I'll settle for the more mundane ending where numerous state attorney generals go after the Trumps for various crimes, sucking them dry due to legal fees.
The whole point of this presidency is to acquire wealth, create escape networks, and build personal protections for the future. The odds of any kind of satisfying ending are slim. And every day that ticks by makes them slimmer.
There's always going to be someone who will want to do business with these pieces of shit. I'm hoping that we can make it not so easy for them. We can only hope...
tl;dr

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:26 am

Business Insider
Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats repeatedly found his warnings about the threat posed by Russia suppressed by the White House, The New York Times reported Sunday amid his resignation from the post.

According to The Times, Coats has often found himself at odds with President Donald Trump over Russia, a situation that worsened in recent months.

Coats saw Russia as an adversary to the US, The Times wrote, and pushed for closer cooperation with European countries to counter it, but the White House did not agree.

Several times Coats saw his language on the Kremlin's activities watered down by the White House, according to The Times.

A secret report by Coats on Russia's attempt to interfere in the 2018 midterms by spreading disinformation was reportedly altered by the White House. A public statement on Coats' conclusions contained less critical language than the original, The Times said.

A former senior intelligence official told The Washington Post that Coats felt marginalized on national security issues by the president and had come to see his departure as inevitable.

According to reports, Trump had been discussing replacing Coats for months.

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