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The Trump Presidency Thread

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Kurth »

stessier wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:16 pm
Fretmute wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:08 pm
2020, ladies and gentlemen:

You missed the first tweet in the string.

I was happy to see him joining the protests, but I've got to question Wheeler's judgment. Unless he had rock-solid info that the feds were about to start firing live rounds, that tweet seems really irresponsible to me. You don't put something like that out unless it's credible and verified. Not sure this passes that standard.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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"...the federal government has no plans to use live ammunition on Portlanders tonight..."

That statement alone is all that's needed to summarize Trump's Presidency.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Yeah I'm curious what constitutes "concerns within the community". If it's rumors / FB posts / etc., then Wheeler posting this seems irresponsible. If the source is like someone with DHS or something, that would be different.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:24 pm
Yeah I'm curious what constitutes "concerns within the community". If it's rumors / FB posts / etc., then Wheeler posting this seems irresponsible. If the source is like someone with DHS or something, that would be different.
I indeed am curious as well. It could be confusion because the 'new guns' they are using look like assault-style rifles that could fire live ammo. I saw them in the videos and was thinking that it was a drastic escalation then I watched them appear to use them to fire pepper balls.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Wow - the hits keep hitting.


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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Octavious »

Yup so he had his former lawyer through into solitary to avoid a book being published. That's what Cohen said when he was tossed back in. In normal times he would have sounded insane for making such an accusation. We're hanging on by a thread here.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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I imagine that Barr / Barr's lackeys seized on the photos of Cohen out to dinner as a way to retaliate for declining the gag order without making it look like it was retaliation.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by stessier »

It appears the government is claiming a low level person with no specific knowledge of the case copy and pasted the offending portion of the agreement. They include it in an appendix and it does appear to match a case in PA.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

I don't see how it matters. Even if the language is stock, Cohen's lawyer raising it as a concern is not the same as saying he'd never sign it. If the government can show that someone raising an issue to the agreement in the past routinely leads to revocation of house arrest then they'd have a case perhaps. I'd suspect this isn't the case. If obtaining the signature immediately was that important they'd just tell him the consequences of not complying in person while his lawyer is present. Instead, they went back and called back into Barr-central. They claim it was to get them to sign off on what they wanted to do. Maybe that's normal but again I'll assume the judge heard enough to ferret out the bullshit nature of the government's claims.
El Guapo wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:52 pm
I imagine that Barr / Barr's lackeys seized on the photos of Cohen out to dinner as a way to retaliate for declining the gag order without making it look like it was retaliation.
Maybe. It feels more likely that they saw the opportunity when they got the call about the issue raised by Cohen's lawyer. As far as I know they never raised this the 'dining out' issue in the proceedings.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Good for him.



I wonder how furrowed Susan Collins's brow is on this.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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El Guapo wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:58 pm
I wonder how furrowed Susan Collins's brow is on this.
I cannot wait to check the box for Sara Gideon so hard that the pencil goes through the paper. Before anyone even knew who was going to challenge her, they had $3.7m in funds waiting for their campaign.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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This one is easy for him. It'll probably kick off a round of silly 'Romney close to breaking with the GOP.' stories. :)

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Not sure what the fuck she was thinking.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Mayor Lightfoot maintains that all resources will be investigatory in nature and be coordinated through the U.S. Attorney’s office,” the statement said. “The Mayor has made clear that if there is any deviation from what has been announced, we will pursue all available legal options to protect Chicagoans.
She might be thinking "free police labor" but we all know it won't end well. The storm troopers aren't really interested in investigating as much as instigating.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Unagi wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:06 am
Not sure what the fuck she was thinking.
Deal with the devil. She and the city, along with the county government, have completely failed on the violence and crime issues and she needs a diversion.

She's willing to pull 200 officers to protect her house, put her private Marshal in charge of an ever growing pool of CPD resources and not enforce her own curfews. All while the South, West, and Downtown burn. Anything other than a cursory look reveals the failure of the Lightfoot/Foxx/Evans/Dart/Preckwinkle clown car.

A fed shakeup is what she's hoping for. If it is a disaster she can get back on her "F U Trump" soapbox, if it works she saved the city.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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malchior wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:56 am
You'll be shocked to learn that this hardly tells the story of the agreement between Lightfoot and Trump. From Yahoo:
https://news.yahoo.com/chicago-mayor-agrees-trump-allow-151506086.html wrote: Trump “reached out to Mayor Lightfoot this evening to confirm that he plans to send federal resources to Chicago to supplement ongoing federal investigations pertaining to violent crime,” the mayor’s office said on Wednesday in a statement to the Chicago Sun-Times. “Mayor Lightfoot maintains that all resources will be investigatory in nature and be coordinated through the U.S. Attorney’s office. The Mayor has made clear that if there is any deviation from what has been announced, we will pursue all available legal options to protect Chicagoans.”

' ' ' '

The deployment of federal police in the city will be overseen by U.S. Attorney John Lausch, whom Lightfoot knows from her tenure as a former federal prosecutor.

“This is not patrol. This is not against civil unrest,” Lausch said. “This is working with the Chicago Police Department to do what we can to reduce the staggering violent crime we’re facing right now.”
We'll see how this turns out, but shootings are skyrocketing in Chicago and this not a response to protests in any way similar to Portland. I have my doubts that the Feds will somehow be able to resolve the violence issues (largely related to gangs), but if they do keep their involvement limited to this particular issue and it can lead to fewer kids getting caught in the crossfire, it might not be so bad.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

“This is working with the Chicago Police Department to do what we can to reduce the staggering violent crime we’re facing right now.”
No it sure what the plan will be. Last time we had feds in to help with this, an ATF agent got shot in the head.


Are they going to do all the things we forbid the CPD from doing? Terry stops, clearing corners, mobile tac units?

If the thinking is that they can make federal arrests and thus get federal charges that will actually stick, I guess that's something but wouldn't changing the direction of our own ineffective prosecutor's office be a better approach? Or do we just move the Feds in permenently?
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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No idea. The mayor claims its investigatory in nature only, so it seems like they wouldn't be out there doing the things you mentioned. It smells a bit like saving face for both parties. Trump gets to claim he got the feds into Chicago, and Lightfoot gets to keep to her statements that she'd welcome appropriate and coordinated help from the feds, which is what I think she's been saying for a while.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:59 am
You'll be shocked to learn that this hardly tells the story of the agreement between Lightfoot and Trump. From Yahoo:
https://news.yahoo.com/chicago-mayor-agrees-trump-allow-151506086.html wrote: Trump “reached out to Mayor Lightfoot this evening to confirm that he plans to send federal resources to Chicago to supplement ongoing federal investigations pertaining to violent crime,” the mayor’s office said on Wednesday in a statement to the Chicago Sun-Times. “Mayor Lightfoot maintains that all resources will be investigatory in nature and be coordinated through the U.S. Attorney’s office. The Mayor has made clear that if there is any deviation from what has been announced, we will pursue all available legal options to protect Chicagoans.”

' ' ' '

The deployment of federal police in the city will be overseen by U.S. Attorney John Lausch, whom Lightfoot knows from her tenure as a former federal prosecutor.

“This is not patrol. This is not against civil unrest,” Lausch said. “This is working with the Chicago Police Department to do what we can to reduce the staggering violent crime we’re facing right now.”
We'll see how this turns out, but shootings are skyrocketing in Chicago and this not a response to protests in any way similar to Portland. I have my doubts that the Feds will somehow be able to resolve the violence issues (largely related to gangs), but if they do keep their involvement limited to this particular issue and it can lead to fewer kids getting caught in the crossfire, it might not be so bad.
No doubt but the point of dropping this was to show how big the disconnect is between the government and some of the governed. Are all those people well acquainted with the details of the agreement? Probably not but like what we are seeing in NY the people are fed up with their city governments. Whether camping out for a month in front of City Hall in NY or these protests in Lightfoot's neighborhood they indicate that at the very least that there is a deep-seated movement for change. At least for the moment.

As an aside, NY is seeing a surge in violence too. Is it gangs? Unemployment? Covid? All of the above? Who knows. Will Fed resources help? Maybe but its a gamble. Especially if things go south with Trump's involvement. It could backfire badly.

Edit;
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:57 am
No idea. The mayor claims its investigatory in nature only, so it seems like they wouldn't be out there doing the things you mentioned. It smells a bit like saving face for both parties. Trump gets to claim he got the feds into Chicago, and Lightfoot gets to keep to her statements that she'd welcome appropriate and coordinated help from the feds, which is what I think she's been saying for a while.
Right but that assumes Trump doesn't use this as a foot in the door. What happens if these "investigators" call for backup?

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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malchior wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:04 pm
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:57 am
No idea. The mayor claims its investigatory in nature only, so it seems like they wouldn't be out there doing the things you mentioned. It smells a bit like saving face for both parties. Trump gets to claim he got the feds into Chicago, and Lightfoot gets to keep to her statements that she'd welcome appropriate and coordinated help from the feds, which is what I think she's been saying for a while.
Right but that assumes Trump doesn't use this as a foot in the door. What happens if these "investigators" call for backup?
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:59 am
https://news.yahoo.com/chicago-mayor-agrees-trump-allow-151506086.html wrote: wrote: The Mayor has made clear that if there is any deviation from what has been announced, we will pursue all available legal options to protect Chicagoans.”
What does that mean? I don't know, but it's not like LIghtfoot is naively thinking everything will go peachy-keen and she doesn't have to worry about things anymore. It sounds like she at least has some comfort level with the fed involved (although I suppose it's possible she hated him from their time together), and what was her other option? She's not going to stop Trump from deploying his shock troops if that's the route he wants to go. She's also publicly stated that fed help would be OK if it were limited in scope and coordinated with the CPD. On its surface, that's what they've got here. You can't really say "no" when you've been given what you asked for.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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To me, this is her letting goons into her house. I (now) understand she thinks there are limits to their behavior/agreements to their role, but that's likely a joke.

Anything that transpires will be entirely on her, IMO. To think she could shrug off a 'disaster' as being Trump's fault, I think that's not likely how Chicago voters will see it.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:17 pm
malchior wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:04 pm
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:57 am
No idea. The mayor claims its investigatory in nature only, so it seems like they wouldn't be out there doing the things you mentioned. It smells a bit like saving face for both parties. Trump gets to claim he got the feds into Chicago, and Lightfoot gets to keep to her statements that she'd welcome appropriate and coordinated help from the feds, which is what I think she's been saying for a while.
Right but that assumes Trump doesn't use this as a foot in the door. What happens if these "investigators" call for backup?
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:59 am
https://news.yahoo.com/chicago-mayor-agrees-trump-allow-151506086.html wrote: wrote: The Mayor has made clear that if there is any deviation from what has been announced, we will pursue all available legal options to protect Chicagoans.”
What does that mean? I don't know, but it's not like LIghtfoot is naively thinking everything will go peachy-keen and she doesn't have to worry about things anymore. It sounds like she at least has some comfort level with the fed involved (although I suppose it's possible she hated him from their time together), and what was her other option? She's not going to stop Trump from deploying his shock troops if that's the route he wants to go. She's also publicly stated that fed help would be OK if it were limited in scope and coordinated with the CPD. On its surface, that's what they've got here. You can't really say "no" when you've been given what you asked for.
Fair enough. As it stands, she is popular enough to manage this at the moment. We'll see if Trump abuses this situation.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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malchior wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:04 pm
but like what we are seeing in NY the people are fed up with their city governments. Whether camping out for a month in front of City Hall in NY or these protests in Lightfoot's neighborhood they indicate that at the very least that there is a deep-seated movement for change. At least for the moment.
You've got to give change a chance, though. Remember, LIghtfoot is the change candidate. She replaced Emmanuel and won a run-off against an old-school machine pol in Toni Preckwinkle. She's still in her first term. I don't have a problem with the protestors generally speaking and they're not being violent here, and she absolutely needs to be held accountable for her decisions. This seems a bit like protesting for the sake of protesting, though.
malchior wrote:As an aside, NY is seeing a surge in violence too. Is it gangs? Unemployment? Covid? All of the above? Who knows. Will Fed resources help? Maybe but its a gamble. Especially if things go south with Trump's involvement. It could backfire badly.
I have no idea what the issue is in NY. I'm pretty sure the issue in Chicago is gangs.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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malchior wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:22 pm
We'll see how Trump abuses this situation.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by malchior »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:24 pm
malchior wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:04 pm
but like what we are seeing in NY the people are fed up with their city governments. Whether camping out for a month in front of City Hall in NY or these protests in Lightfoot's neighborhood they indicate that at the very least that there is a deep-seated movement for change. At least for the moment.
You've got to give change a chance, though. Remember, LIghtfoot is the change candidate. She replaced Emmanuel and won a run-off against an old-school machine pol in Toni Preckwinkle. She's still in her first term. I don't have a problem with the protestors generally speaking and they're not being violent here, and she absolutely needs to be held accountable for her decisions. This seems a bit like protesting for the sake of protesting, though.
Right. I am beginning to think people are done waiting. We had the early blow ups nationwide early last month. It calmed down but I can't help but feel that tension is building back up.
malchior wrote:As an aside, NY is seeing a surge in violence too. Is it gangs? Unemployment? Covid? All of the above? Who knows. Will Fed resources help? Maybe but its a gamble. Especially if things go south with Trump's involvement. It could backfire badly.
I have no idea what the issue is in NY. I'm pretty sure the issue in Chicago is gangs.
Right. I think you'd hear that answer in most large cities in the US.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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I've heard it said that to say "gangs" these days is -nothing- like what it meant 10-20 years ago.

There will be no 'leader' to catch.

These are way less structured, if at all, and really it's just friends/groups, etc. The "problem" is not likely to be solved by federal agents, IMO.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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A few years ago they were blaming the rise in gang violence on police success in taking down many of the gang leaders. Without the leadership, the gangs fractured and had no one to rein them in. There are currently 117,000 gang members in 55 known gangs in Chicago. That's a lot of people and a lot of turf wars. They've mostly moved out of my neighborhood in the last 5-10 years (go go gentrification), but it's not like gang areas aren't within walking distance, and stuff will occasionally spill over.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:24 pm
malchior wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:04 pm
but like what we are seeing in NY the people are fed up with their city governments. Whether camping out for a month in front of City Hall in NY or these protests in Lightfoot's neighborhood they indicate that at the very least that there is a deep-seated movement for change. At least for the moment.
You've got to give change a chance, though. Remember, LIghtfoot is the change candidate. She replaced Emmanuel and won a run-off against an old-school machine pol in Toni Preckwinkle. She's still in her first term. I don't have a problem with the protestors generally speaking and they're not being violent here, and she absolutely needs to be held accountable for her decisions. This seems a bit like protesting for the sake of protesting, though.

Let's be clear though, her supposed mandate is tenuous. she "won" the opportunity for a runoff with 17.5% of the vote, margin of 1.5% over Preckwinkle. Over 80% of voters did not have her as their first choice.

The realization that she was everyone's 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice is setting in.

Her "F U" was the most popular thing she's done since she's been in office. Accepting the feds is seen as going back on that.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Is that a commentary on her "mandate" or on the reality of a wide open primary with no incumbent and no otherwise obvious successor to Rahm? No one was going to come into this thing as the obvious first choice. I mean, there was even a Daley running (again), for chrissakes.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Wait, was the process that the Democrats had a wide-open primary with a first past the post winner, with the resulting candidate taking on a sacrificial Republican?

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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Off the top of my head, there are three likely outcomes here, and two of them are positive for LIghtfoot. In my guesstimated order of likelihood (although the first two are really more of a tossup):

1. Trump/feds overstep their mandate. This is obviously bad for Chicago and for Lightfoot. She can try to use the courts to combat this, but their efficacy is in question.

2. Trump/feds stay in their lane, but there's no real impact on violence in Chicago. This is good for Lightfoot, as she kept Trump to his word, and it shows that the feds are some magical cureall for inner city violence. (Of course, this could then lead to point 1, but that's beyond the scope of my 3 outcomes at this point.)

3. Trump/feds stay in their lane, and violence is reduced in Chicago. Win/win, even if Trump also gets to claim a victory.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:49 pm
Wait, was the process that the Democrats had a wide-open primary with a first past the post winner, with the resulting candidate taking on a sacrificial Republican?
No, it was an open election (I probably shouldn't have called it a primary) with Ds and Rs together. If no one got 50%, then the top two vote getters went to a run-off, so the final election was between two Ds.
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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:56 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:49 pm
Wait, was the process that the Democrats had a wide-open primary with a first past the post winner, with the resulting candidate taking on a sacrificial Republican?
No, it was an open election (I probably shouldn't have called it a primary) with Ds and Rs together. If no one got 50%, then the top two vote getters went to a run-off, so the final election was between two Ds.
Oh, ok. That doesn't seem like a problem then, since a majority of voters did pick her ultimately. And even if you had instant run-off voting (which should be standard at this point, even though it's not) that's still not going to prevent the winner from being someone who was most people's 3rd, 4th, 5th choice out of the initial group.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:44 pm
Her "F U" was the most popular thing she's done since she's been in office. Accepting the feds is seen as going back on that.
that's how I see it.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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These Lincoln Project ads continue to be awesome.

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That's pretty good.

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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

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The last two seconds make it. My brother has decided to signoff on all his emails - "Cognitively there, XXXX."
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Jaymann
Posts: 10390
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
Location: California

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Post by Jaymann »

stessier wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:18 pm
The last two seconds make it.
Agreed, I LOL'ed.
Jaymann
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