Octopus Overlords

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:28 am What the hell?

Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:32 pmThe scenes playing out in Portland now after midnight worry me. I’m seriously concerned that these violent, chaotic clashes are going to strengthen Trump’s base.

1. Unlike most Republican Presidents, Trump is not viewed by anyone as an agent of order. Quite the opposite, actually - he actively runs around putting gasoline on fires and bragging about it. This makes him very popular with the more reactionary right, but it means he has a lot of trouble playing the Law and Order card.
2. Biden is very much NOT aligning himself with the protesters. He's staying pretty quiet on...well, most things, honestly, but he does NOT support "defunding the police," much less any of the more extreme demands.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:48 pm

Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:32 pmThe scenes playing out in Portland now after midnight worry me. I’m seriously concerned that these violent, chaotic clashes are going to strengthen Trump’s base.

Normally, this would be true. I'm not convinced that it is this time, for 2 reasons.

1. Unlike most Republican Presidents, Trump is not viewed by anyone as an agent of order.

Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:32 pm
What I see now has very little to do with BLM. The people shooting lasers at the eyes of law enforcement, throwing fireworks at them, and trying to destroy the federal courthouse are the same group of anarchists that pop up now and again in Portland.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:33 pmI'm not sure who and why but it has been highly coordinated and organized.

malchior wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:58 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:33 pmI'm not sure who and why but it has been highly coordinated and organized.

It can only be antifa! [/s] Seriously speaking there have definitely been odd - actions - since Minneapolis began. The suspicious man who broke the windows / possibly burned down the Autozone across from the 3rd precinct is a good example. It is just too easy to fly under the radar and cause mayhem. So people are taking their shots. Unfortunately we don't have a good idea about the who and why. And we shouldn't trust any threat information being released by the Federal government.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:56 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:58 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:33 pmI'm not sure who and why but it has been highly coordinated and organized.

It can only be antifa! [/s] Seriously speaking there have definitely been odd - actions - since Minneapolis began. The suspicious man who broke the windows / possibly burned down the Autozone across from the 3rd precinct is a good example. It is just too easy to fly under the radar and cause mayhem. So people are taking their shots. Unfortunately we don't have a good idea about the who and why. And we shouldn't trust any threat information being released by the Federal government.

I mean I'm not sure who and why here. In Portland it could be someone else. But at least at the local level in most of these events there is some fairly sophisticated coordination amongst the agitators.

Kurth wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:32 pm Just read through this run down of the protests downtown last night from Oregon Live. The deployment of federal troops by Trump was clearly an act to inflame the left and distract from the core BLM protest. But what’s going on in Portland right now after midnight is not protest. It’s provocation designed to illicit an armed, violent response from law enforcement. The shit’s gone off the rails.

What I see now has very little to do with BLM. The people shooting lasers at the eyes of law enforcement, throwing fireworks at them, and trying to destroy the federal courthouse are the same group of anarchists that pop up now and again in Portland. These are the assholes who vandalized the Biketown bike sharing stations throughout the city a few years ago because the initiative was sponsored and run by Nike. I still remember walking past one of those stations with the bikes all destroyed and some spraypainted bullshit about corporate greed. These people are idiots. You want to protest Nike for some reason, be my guest, but don’t destroy a freaking bike share station.

Now they want to destroy the federal courthouse. Great. My job takes me there on a regular basis, and there’s actually a lot of good work that gets done in that building in support of civil rights and justice. But because the idiot in chief sent federal troops in to guard it, now you want to burn it down? And in trying to do so night after night, all they’re doing is helping to justify the presence of the troops in the first place.

The scenes playing out in Portland now after midnight worry me. I’m seriously concerned that these violent, chaotic clashes are going to strengthen Trump’s base. This is just catnip to Fox News and their viewers. I know some don’t give a shit because that segment of the populace is lost already, but I’ve never been in that camp.

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:30 am

If we are going to make it through this we need to get Biden into office and he will have to spend his time trying to figure out a way to start a process of 'conflict resolution' to bring the tenuous political situation under control. And he'll be wrestling with an out of control pandemic most likely and widespread economic disarray. It's beyond a bad opening hand.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:50 am

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:30 am

If we are going to make it through this we need to get Biden into office and he will have to spend his time trying to figure out a way to start a process of 'conflict resolution' to bring the tenuous political situation under control. And he'll be wrestling with an out of control pandemic most likely and widespread economic disarray. It's beyond a bad opening hand.

I hate this thought, but it's probably best to let the corruption and misdeeds of the past 4 years go and just focus on fixing the nation and mending bridges. Anything less would just further conflict. Reconciliation is a top priority.

Undoubtedly Trump will/has figured this out and will do his best to leave as many fires burning as possible.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:50 am

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:30 am

If we are going to make it through this we need to get Biden into office and he will have to spend his time trying to figure out a way to start a process of 'conflict resolution' to bring the tenuous political situation under control. And he'll be wrestling with an out of control pandemic most likely and widespread economic disarray. It's beyond a bad opening hand.

I hate this thought, but it's probably best to let the corruption and misdeeds of the past 4 years go and just focus on fixing the nation and mending bridges. Anything less would just further conflict. Reconciliation is a top priority.

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:29 am Theoretically, a doctor has said that the guy with the red hat is a paragon of health. I feel a lot better about myself now.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:26 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:50 am

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:30 am

If we are going to make it through this we need to get Biden into office and he will have to spend his time trying to figure out a way to start a process of 'conflict resolution' to bring the tenuous political situation under control. And he'll be wrestling with an out of control pandemic most likely and widespread economic disarray. It's beyond a bad opening hand.

I hate this thought, but it's probably best to let the corruption and misdeeds of the past 4 years go and just focus on fixing the nation and mending bridges. Anything less would just further conflict. Reconciliation is a top priority.

I tend to agree, with the caveat that a significant part of a Biden administration will be to put mechanisms in place that formalize many of the "unwritten rules" for governance that have been a guiding component of the US government, but have been completely disregarded by Trump. Ensure that the abuses of power that he and his swamp have thrived on aren't able to be exploited again, by either side.

It's a pipe dream, I'm sure, but one that would go a long ways towards repairing the damage.

Scraper wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:32 am I never really had an opinion of Bret Favre prior to seeing that picture. Can't say the same thing now.

pr0ner wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:26 am

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:38 pm Our side should absolutely not indulge in that shit. It justifies the opposition.

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:39 amThis is constitutionally and practically difficult and maybe impossible.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:36 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:39 amThis is constitutionally and practically difficult and maybe impossible.

Agreed. I would only add that even IF you could overcome the problems you mention, (and I'm not convinced that you could) you would end up with a President so hobbled that he would be unable to properly exercise power in the case of a real emergency - leaving the country the unenviable choice between a paralyzed executive or an emerging dictator. (history suggests the latter)

The solution here is actually fairly simple - don't elect reality television stars. Running the most powerful country in the world is a terrible responsibility. Treat it appropriately.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:46 pm
there is a third option. increase funding for schools and teachers so the upcoming batch of kids can learn about social studies and actually give a damn about voting and make efforts to learn about issues and candidate before voting. but what do I know.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:46 pm You would have to either raise the bar on who could run for president, or raise the bar on who can vote.

There was one problem: Trump had not actually been invited on that day by the Yankees. His announcement surprised both Yankees officials & White House staff.

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:25 am

There was one problem: Trump had not actually been invited on that day by the Yankees. His announcement surprised both Yankees officials & White House staff.

Just how many times during this presidency has Trump completely invented something. Not just lies, but absolute fabrication. Often entirely disprovable and typically self-aggrandizing. I knew a kid back in high school that was a pathological liar; he'd lie about the color of the sky if you weren't there to see it first. I'm fairly sure he was more honest than Trump.

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:25 am

There was one problem: Trump had not actually been invited on that day by the Yankees. His announcement surprised both Yankees officials & White House staff.

Just how many times during this presidency has Trump completely invented something. Not just lies, but absolute fabrication. Often entirely disprovable and typically self-aggrandizing. I knew a kid back in high school that was a pathological liar; he'd lie about the color of the sky if you weren't there to see it first. I'm fairly sure he was more honest than Trump.

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:25 am

There was one problem: Trump had not actually been invited on that day by the Yankees. His announcement surprised both Yankees officials & White House staff.

Just how many times during this presidency has Trump completely invented something. Not just lies, but absolute fabrication. Often entirely disprovable and typically self-aggrandizing. I knew a kid back in high school that was a pathological liar; he'd lie about the color of the sky if you weren't there to see it first. I'm fairly sure he was more honest than Trump.