What are you doing to minimize the Trumpocalypse?

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El Guapo
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Re: What are you doing to minimize the Trumpocalypse?

Post by El Guapo »

ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:00 pm
Kraken wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:54 pm You must be new here.
I know it seems naive, but there is literally no leverage that a president has against a sitting Supreme Court justice. Loyalty means squat. This isn't like a Cabinet appointment where the president can cut loose someone who isn't toeing the line. You can only get rid of one via impeachment or death. And the issues we're talking about here are not typically split on liberal/conservative lines (at least I don't think they are, but I'm not a Constitutional scholar [although I did get an A in a Con Law class ~25 years ago!]). The question of whether a sitting President can pardon himself, for example, is not a right/left issue.

That's not to say that it won't end up a conservative/liberal issue after all the arguments are said, but that's hardly a guarantee. And these Justices are smart people. I can't imagine even the most conservative of them think that Trump is actually good for the country. They don't have to put up with him for political reasons like the members of Congress do.
Also, Kennedy just resigned in order to allow Trump to appoint his replacement, and as recently documented he seems pretty cozy with Trump. So...not sure we will necessarily see a drop off in "Trump loyalty" with the likely replacement.

Of course, Trump could still nominate Pirro and all hell would break loose.
Black Lives Matter.
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Holman
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Re: What are you doing to minimize the Trumpocalypse?

Post by Holman »

ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:52 pm But there's nothing that Trump can do to the justice once he's in his seat. Unless Trump only nominates someone who Trump has dirt against, the justice is given a lifetime appointment that frees him or her from having to worry about political matters. It appears that the list of potential justices we've seen generally contains capable lawyers/jurists (although I admit to not having looked into this too deeply). I'm still holding out hope that the Supreme Court justices will do their duty appropriately and not just rule along partisan lines, particularly on an issue that is not inherently political. (I know - I'm an incurable optimist.)
One hope is that even a Trump-appointed justice might not be willing to grant powers to the president that effectively render the Supreme Court obsolete.

Why strangle your own career for this fucking guy?
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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em2nought
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Re: What are you doing to minimize the Trumpocalypse?

Post by em2nought »

I think my MAGA hat is in, can't wait to see it! I certainly hope everything is spelled properly. :mrgreen:
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Kraken
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Re: What are you doing to minimize the Trumpocalypse?

Post by Kraken »

El Guapo wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:56 pm If Trump has 2+ more years of tearing down the system without anyone in Congress impeding him, I'm not sure that the Supreme Court is going to be able to do much regardless.
That's for sure. I don't think the Democrats can overcome voter suppression and Russian interference to prevail this November. Mueller's findings, however damning, will land with a thud if the R hammerlock is not broken. And there's no way Trump will acknowledge losing reelection in 2020 (if he does) because of all the nonexistent voter fraud. But I'm getting ahead of things.

You guys have more faith in the integrity of the jurors and the independence of the court than I do. I'm a Gloomy Gus these days.
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NickAragua
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Re: What are you doing to minimize the Trumpocalypse?

Post by NickAragua »

em2nought wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:49 pm I think my MAGA hat is in, can't wait to see it! I certainly hope everything is spelled properly. :mrgreen:
You're not gonna like living in Russia, bro. You think you're a model citizen, and then next thing you know the KGB is hauling your ass away because your neighbor wants your X-Box and told them you're slinging disloyal propaganda.
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Fitzy
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Re: What are you doing to minimize the Trumpocalypse?

Post by Fitzy »

em2nought wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:49 pm I think my MAGA hat is in, can't wait to see it! I certainly hope everything is spelled properly. :mrgreen:
Does it look like this?
снова сделай америку
:mrgreen:
LordMortis wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:31 pm
Fitzy wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:27 pm I’m voting for an incumbent Democrat instead of voting for, donating to and volunteering for my dream moderate independent. The sacrifice is real. :cry:
Truedat. It's going to gall me to vote for the some of the people I'll have to vote for but I've changed my tune sort of. I'm not a democrat but I've been voting democrat primaries for a while now. Essentially I'm "caucausing" with them. ;) I am forced to treat the Dem primary as my general election where I actually get to choose the best I can and then get stuck with the results.

I don't like it but it's the best I got. The only alternatives I see are bleaker.
I tried voting for a more moderate person in the Dem primary, for the Congressional District I live in, but she lost by like 90% :lol: Incumbents are hard to beat, especially with no money, fame, or coverage. Oh well. On the plus side I won’t have to vote for my Congressperson as I don’t think there’s actually a Republican running. :lol:
El Guapo wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:56 pm
I know that that's Trump's most important thing, but whether it's ignorance or indifference or whatever, that's not always what he gets. Remember that Trump (or his team) nominated Rosenstein and Wray for their current posts. And Trump's announced list of justices (from the Gorsuch nomination, which he has said he'll reuse) doesn't have any hacks on it (no Pirros or Cohens or Guilianis). Maybe X circuit judge will be more likely than Kennedy to rule in Trump's favor on this stuff, but that's not obviously so.

But anyway, the main thing is that the SCOTUS isn't really the main line of defense anyway. It's the 2018 elections (and also the Mueller investigation). If Trump has 2+ more years of tearing down the system without anyone in Congress impeding him, I'm not sure that the Supreme Court is going to be able to do much regardless.
Journalism is taking a hit lately, but I think much of our defense has to come from them. It was journalists that brought down Nixon. I’m hoping someone out there is doing a deep dive, which takes a long time, but I fear the immediate gratification society we live in prevents that.

I am curious why people think the courts and Justice Department were ever an option to removing Trump? Mueller and the Department of Justice might be able to uncover proof, but it was always going to come down to Congress. Which is why I’m holding out hope that there are long term investigations by journalists going on and they are finding crimes that will bring Donald down once and for all.

I know relying on Congress is depressing given the ridiculous level of partisanship displayed by the Republicans right now, but I don’t see another legal way.
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