Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed May 24, 2017 11:27 pm

Unfortunately I'm reading that 2/3 of votes were cast by mail.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 24, 2017 11:46 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Unfortunately I'm reading that 2/3 of votes were cast by mail.

Damn, that was my fear when I saw this. In a good bit of news, Fox News reporters are backing up his story.

During that conversation, another man — who we now know is Ben Jacobs of The Guardian — walked into the room with a voice recorder, put it up to Gianforte's face and began asking if he had a response to the newly released Congressional Budget Office report on the American Health Care Act. Gianforte told him he would get to him later. Jacobs persisted with his question. Gianforte told him to talk to his press guy, Shane Scanlon.

At that point, Gianforte grabbed Jacobs by the neck with both hands and slammed him into the ground behind him. Faith, Keith and I watched in disbelief as Gianforte then began punching the reporter. As Gianforte moved on top of Jacobs, he began yelling something to the effect of, "I'm sick and tired of this!"

Jacobs scrambled to his knees and said something about his glasses being broken. He asked Faith, Keith and myself for our names. In shock, we did not answer. Jacobs then said he wanted the police called and went to leave. Gianforte looked at the three of us and repeatedly apologized. At that point, I told him and Scanlon, who was now present, that we needed a moment. The men then left.

To be clear, at no point did any of us who witnessed this assault see Jacobs show any form of physical aggression toward Gianforte, who left the area after giving statements to local sheriff's deputies.

As for myself and my crew, we are cooperating with local authorities. It is not clear if charges will be filed against Gianforte at this time.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 24, 2017 11:52 pm

LOL.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu May 25, 2017 12:11 am

Skinypupy wrote:
malchior wrote:
"The problem" being that people actually have healthcare, apparently.

Or that the Republicans never wanted to fix the health care problem in the first place, but still complained for 8 years about not being part of the process in passing Obamacare.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Thu May 25, 2017 12:12 am

For f's sake, the sheriff who is investigating him is one of his donors.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu May 25, 2017 12:53 am

What a snowflake.....

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:04 am

No matter, they still charged him with misdemeanor assault and two the the major dailies in the state have pulled their endorsements.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu May 25, 2017 7:06 am

Three papers have now pulled their endorsements. We will see if it matters or not due to the early voting.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon May 29, 2017 11:36 am

I missed this bit yesterday with all the world leader stuff going on (so tired of winning):

President Donald Trump had concerned Americans scratching their heads Sunday night after he tweeted that he now wants to pour more money into health care.

“I suggest that we add more dollars to Healthcare and make it the best anywhere,” he wrote.

That was strange because Trump’s budget plan submitted just days ago called for cutting at least $610 billion from Medicaid and slicing an additional $250 billion from health care by repealing Obamacare. The White House plan also calls for cuts in future spending on health care for children from low-income households. There is no additional spending for any health care in the plan.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon May 29, 2017 11:39 am

He heard on the news that funding for healthcare was being cut, so he grabbed his phone and did Leadership.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon May 29, 2017 12:10 pm

He probably doesn't consider Medicaid "healthcare," but rather an "entitlement." In the Republican mind the former is neutral-to-good and the latter is bad. Trump's mind occasionally syncs up briefly with the Republicans, whose line is that we aren't entitled to healthcare (which is strictly true). If Medicaid is an entitlement, then it can't be healthcare.

(Of course, none of the payment processing entities are "healthcare" as such, but that distinction commonly escapes most of us since Obamacare enshrined private insurers in the US system.)

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon May 29, 2017 1:54 pm

How many times do we have to point this out? There is no "Trump's Budget". He had no idea what is in it. He isn't the one that set any of the priorities. He may not even know that his people submitted a budget proposal.

Why is *anyone* still confused by this? Does anyone in this country think that Trump has any idea what was in that useless pile of paper?

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon May 29, 2017 3:32 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:How many times do we have to point this out? There is no "Trump's Budget". He had no idea what is in it. He isn't the one that set any of the priorities. He may not even know that his people submitted a budget proposal.

Why is *anyone* still confused by this? Does anyone in this country think that Trump has any idea what was in that useless pile of paper?

Nobody thinks he wrote it, but it is his budget. If he's decided he doesn't care what's in it, that's his fault. It came out of the Executive Office. He's the head of the Executive Branch. It doesn't matter whether or not he had a direct hand in writing it, or if he understands what's in it, it's ultimately his responsibility. If he doesn't like being saddled with the negative fallout from it, then either he should have made more of an effort to pay attention to what his people were doing, or he should have been more careful to appoint people who he could trust to do things he could get behind. He does not get a pass for this because he's a lazy ignoramus.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon May 29, 2017 3:37 pm

Again, you are treating him as if he is a normal politician or President. It doesn't matter if it's his or that it came out of the Executive Office. It doesn't even matter if it's his responsibility.

HE DOESN'T KNOW OR CARE.

I'm not asking for a pass for him. I'm asking for people to stop expressing surprise when there's no connection between what he says and what his administration is doing. They're barely even connected.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon May 29, 2017 4:36 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:Again, you are treating him as if he is a normal politician or President. It doesn't matter if it's his or that it came out of the Executive Office. It doesn't even matter if it's his responsibility.

HE DOESN'T KNOW OR CARE.

I'm not asking for a pass for him. I'm asking for people to stop expressing surprise when there's no connection between what he says and what his administration is doing. They're barely even connected.

I'm not expressing surprise. It's utterly predictable that he'd say something that's the complete opposite of what his administration is doing. No, he's not a normal politician or President, but the standards we hold him to should be the same, because the mechanisms for getting him into and out of office sure are. If you create a different set of standards for him because he's "not normal", then it becomes a lot easier for people to justify saying "well, he's not doing so bad." That makes it easier to be okay with the incompetence, and easier to not vote him out on his ass in four years, if he makes it that far.

He sits in the Oval Office. He absolutely should be held to the standards of that position. Don't be surprised when he completely fails to live up to those standards, but everyone should definitely be pointing out the insane stuff he's doing, especially since the only way his base gets eroded is when he does enough stuff that directly impacts their lives in a negative way. If you tie those things, like this budget, to Trump, then maybe you start to erode that. If you let it slide with "well, it wasn't ACTUALLY Trump that did this," then his base will continue to blame the problems with the administration on everyone except Trump.

This is Trump's budget. Trump's administration is putting this forward as their vision for leading the country. He is ultimately responsible.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon May 29, 2017 6:23 pm

Given that you responded to me, and that I wasn't responding to you initially, my issue is unlikely to be YOU expressing surprise (or not).

My issue was with the language used in the article that I was responding to.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon May 29, 2017 6:24 pm

Also, if you think my position is that I'm "letting it slide" because he's a grossly incompetent douchenozzle, I mean holy shit snacks.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon May 29, 2017 8:24 pm

The only way Trump's base realizes they've fucked up electing a deplorable asshole is tying Trump to the consequences of his administration.

He's tried to hide behind the fake news, crowd size, deep state, leaks, national security, etc. Give Trump an inch and he'll try to steal miles. It's the signature negotiating strategy of his business. He's trying to duplicate it in politics. His supporters believed it would turn into winning for America. It won't.

We need every voice to speak. Eventually Trump supporters will listen, and you never know who will put the crack in their blind faith in Trump and the Republican Party.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon May 29, 2017 10:12 pm

Zarathud wrote:Eventually Trump supporters will listen

I have no faith that this is true.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon May 29, 2017 10:20 pm

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue May 30, 2017 1:43 am

msteelers wrote:
Zarathud wrote:Eventually Trump supporters will listen
I have no faith that this is true.

If the herd ever does turn, they will stampede as one. But it's hard to see how that happens in a personality cult where the great man defines greatness.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue May 30, 2017 6:43 am

The Trump base--the true Deplorables--will never turn on him, but they don't matter now. What matters is that the GOP machine turns on him, and to make that happen they have to realize that they'll never again get more than 30% of the vote if they don't.

As the minority in every branch and in most states, Democrats are powerless to offer more than moral support to this effort until enough GOPers break with their party.

The real actors here will be the investigators, the courts, and the honest press. All three are under siege.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue May 30, 2017 10:52 am

Holman wrote:The Trump base--the true Deplorables--will never turn on him, but they don't matter now. What matters is that the GOP machine turns on him, and to make that happen they have to realize that they'll never again get more than 30% of the vote if they don't.

The real problem, electorally speaking, is the number of Trump voters who don't believe they have any alternative.

It all starts with how and why they voted for Trump in the first place. Certainly there are the Trump voters who loved and believed his messages and who took to his nonpolitical style. Many Trump voters, however, didn’t like him that much, but they believed that they had no other choice. They saw Clinton as so corrupt as to be unimaginable as president. Just as Democrats can now make a long list of mistakes that Trump has made since he became president, Trump supporters list Benghazi, the Clinton Foundation, pay-for-play, the use of a private e-mail server, WikiLeaks, and a countless list of other headline topics: Huma’s Laptop, Bill Clinton’s Treatment of Women, the Loretta Lynch Airplane Conversation, Peeking at Debate Questions Beforehand, and so on. These voters are so sure that the Clintons are corrupt that they would rather have a sometimes sloppy and unpredictable leader than “those two crooks” in the White House.

...

The key to what happens next is the 40 percent of my 400 voters who are now unhappy with both Trump and his opponents. They are disappointed with the president, but feel they have nowhere to go. They describe themselves as “drained.” Their revulsion at Trump’s appetite for chaos has not driven them to the Democrats. They worry about a world full of problems that won’t be addressed because of all of the distractions. They fret that countries won’t know how to work with us if we are divided and focused on possible scandals. They cringe at the thought that Hillary Clinton wants to lead them out of the wilderness. They want fresh faces and fresh ideas more than they want resistance.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue May 30, 2017 10:53 am

Kraken wrote:
They saw Clinton as so corrupt as to be unimaginable as president.

Joke's on them I guess. HA-ha.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue May 30, 2017 11:11 am

That's what happens when you believe decades of lies.

The Democrats do need to find a young and authentically charismatic leader.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue May 30, 2017 11:34 am

Zarathud wrote:That's what happens when you believe decades of lies.

The Democrats do need to find a young and authentically charismatic leader.

I remember when Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were such things.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Tue May 30, 2017 11:38 am

Jeff V wrote:
Zarathud wrote:That's what happens when you believe decades of lies.

The Democrats do need to find a young and authentically charismatic leader.
I remember when Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were such things.

Yes, Barack Obama definitely qualified. But we could only keep him for 8 years

Gotta find someone else now.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Tue May 30, 2017 12:23 pm

If you smell...

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue May 30, 2017 12:33 pm

gilraen wrote:
Jeff V wrote:
Zarathud wrote:That's what happens when you believe decades of lies.

The Democrats do need to find a young and authentically charismatic leader.
I remember when Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were such things.
Yes, Barack Obama definitely qualified. But we could only keep him for 8 years Gotta find someone else now.

Clinton was in a big way too at the time of his initial campaign. His charisma set him apart in a crowded field where he was expected to be an early drop-out.

I don't know that we'll see anyone emerge until the next primary season starts. Hillary was the heir apparent for 8 years, and the elephants had all that time to take shots and manufacture crises on her behalf with the result being too much baggage to overcome. A more or less surprise candidate is going to be a lot harder to take down, especially if the closets are clean and skeleton-free.

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Tue May 30, 2017 12:46 pm

You know you've hit rock bottom when you consider the people's candidate.

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Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:51 am

Vox suggesting the birth control regulations will be rolled back:

The Affordable Care Act requires nearly all employers to offer health insurance that covers access to a wide array of contraceptive methods. The draft proposal, if finalized, would significantly broaden the type of companies and organizations that can request an exemption. This could lead to many American women who currently receive no-cost contraception having to pay out of pocket for their medication.

“It’s just a very, very, very broad exception for everybody,” Tim Jost, a health law professor at Washington and Lee University, told Vox. “If you don’t want to provide it, you don’t have to provide it.”

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:47 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
“If you don’t want to provide it, you don’t have to provide it.”

And that of course is the beauty of the American Health Care System(tm). It's about what your employer wants to provide you. It makes total sense.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:48 pm

Looking forward to employers deciding they don't want to provide for cancer treatments because they're really expensive.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:52 pm

Jeff V wrote:I don't know that we'll see anyone emerge until the next primary season starts. Hillary was the heir apparent for 8 years, and the elephants had all that time to take shots and manufacture crises on her behalf with the result being too much baggage to overcome. A more or less surprise candidate is going to be a lot harder to take down, especially if the closets are clean and skeleton-free.

The Heir apparent also lost to Obama, so she was in waiting 16 years. Of course, Obama was a young surprise candidate with a close relatively skeleton free, so much so, republican mainstream had to not only merge libertarian conspiracy theorists, but they moved past that to flat out going off the deep end making shit up and rejecting "lame stream media".

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:59 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Looking forward to employers deciding they don't want to provide for cancer treatments because they're really expensive.

Even better is the status quo position that when you switch jobs you take on enormous risk. Whether you leave voluntarily or not. You simply aren't covered by FMLA for the first year. (And yes there are other exceptions too). So say you happen to get cancer in your first year on a new job. Depending on your state they can cut you if you take leave for your illness. And then you lose coverage or have to pay out the ass for COBRA. Right when you are at your most vulnerable. It is evil.

Essentially this system is bonkers in how it is designed to shift risk to individuals or pockets of people. It especially makes no sense when we have this huge potential pool out there. Maybe this made sense 50 years ago when resources were tighter. However now we throw 1/5 of the economy at it. And somehow we still are little better off from an individual point of view financially. It is fucking madness.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed May 31, 2017 6:54 pm

No shit. My kids have immediate insulin needs--I can't open my own law practice right now without risking their death due to a break in insurance coverage. DONTcare will make that risk immediate, if my firm decides to cut costs by limiting insurance payouts.

People will die because of the Republican health care plan -- all so Rip can have the right to be irresponsible and not pay for insurance for his family. It's madness.

If the Russian influence doesn't put Trump down in history as the worst President, it will be the inevitable headlines and "personal interest" stories about health coverage.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Wed May 31, 2017 7:02 pm

MAGA MAGA MAGA!

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Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:14 pm

An amusing story out of Sacramento today as the California Senate approved a plan to provide a single-payer health care system for the state.

What's funny about it is that the plan costs $400 billion and not one single advocate of the program has told citizens how they are going to pay for it.

And how can they? Single-payer health insurance will cost twice the state's budget total for 2018.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapse ... 7a17fad6a3

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:20 pm

Rip wrote:An amusing story out of Sacramento today as the California Senate approved a plan to provide a single-payer health care system for the state.

What's funny about it is that the plan costs $400 billion and not one single advocate of the program has told citizens how they are going to pay for it.

And how can they? Single-payer health insurance will cost twice the state's budget total for 2018.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapse ... 7a17fad6a3

Maybe they will stop subsidizing states that leach off the producers.

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Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:51 pm

Tim Kaine is skeleton free.

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