Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

[Grifman]

Wow, Jimmy Kimmel is my new health care hero. He's spend the last several nights of his monologue, not doing jokes but talking about health care and accusing a Republican Senator, Cassidy, of lying to him in his show:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/21/media/j ... index.html

My favorite comment is his response to a FOX new critic who called him a "Hollywood elite":

Kimmel jokingly said that he didn't "want to turn this into a Kanye and Taylor Swift type situation" while also taking down others, like "Fox & Friends" host Brian Kilmeade, who called Kimmel a "Hollywood elite."

"The reason I found this comment to be particularly annoying is because this is a guy, Brian Kilmeade, who whenever I see him kisses my ass like a little boy meeting Batman," Kimmel said. "He is dying to be a member of the 'Hollywood elite.'"

[hepcat]

Kimmel is incredibly sharp...and he comes across as a normal Joe with an honest to God stake in the matter, not a celebrity pursuing a pet cause. The last thing you wanna do is get into a pissing match with him over this. He will shred you.

[msteelers]

He will shred you.

No he won't. The people who are inclined to listen to him already know this is a shit sandwich of a bill, and conservative leaning people in this society won't listen to him because they don't like being lectured to.

There is no way in this world that Kilmeade's or Cassidy's audience cares about what Kimmel has to say.

[hepcat]

Considering the fact they're both addressing Kimmel's claims quite a bit, I'd say you're wrong.

As I made clear in my post, Kimmel comes across as an average guy, not a Hollywood elite. That's going to play to those in middle America who might have been on the fence over this matter.

[msteelers]

Considering the fact they're both addressing Kimmel's claims quite a bit, I'd say you're wrong.

As I made clear in my post, Kimmel comes across as an average guy, not a Hollywood elite. That's going to play to those in middle America who might have been on the fence over this matter.

I hope your right, but the willful ignorance of the American people only seems to grow each year. Logic and reasoning don't matter to a large portion of the populace. All that matters is what feels right.

[hepcat]

I think we're seeing an erosion of the blind ignorance that put Trump in power though. More and more people are waking up to the realization that the man is an idiot and that his loyalties are to his celebrity first and foremost. Of course he has his core group, but that group is increasingly being revealed as truly racist and vile. The group that voted for him out of hatred of Hillary seem to be recoiling a bit from their choice. Don't get me wrong. Blind hatred of Hillary and Obama would still put Trump in power if it came down to November of 2016 again. But if we go back further, I think they'd be open to voting for a saner choice in the GOP nomination process.

[stessier]

I'm not seeing the media coverage that surrounded the last attempt to pass the repeal - I think that is a problem. It really sounds like they have to votes to get to 50 right now.

Here is a 538 piece on how we got here and what changed.

[Chaz]

I'm mentally preparing myself for this thing passing. I heard they already scheduled the vote for next Monday, and that wouldn't have happened if McConnell didn't think they had the votes, or at least were pretty confident they did. Maybe he's close and just assumes he does, but it's not a good sign.

I'll probably call my senators and rep tomorrow, but it won't matter because they're already vocally opposed, and also Dems.

[Kraken]

I'll probably call my senators and rep tomorrow, but it won't matter because they're already vocally opposed, and also Dems.

Yeah, I don't think I need to give Elizabeth Warren a piece of my mind.

They really need to get an earful from insurance company and hospital execs. I don't think they care about patients or voters, but the biggest financial players might still be able to make a difference.

[Alefroth]

I'll probably call my senators and rep tomorrow, but it won't matter because they're already vocally opposed, and also Dems.

Yeah, I don't think I need to give Elizabeth Warren a piece of my mind.

They really need to get an earful from insurance company and hospital execs. I don't think they care about patients or voters, but the biggest financial players might still be able to make a difference.

The insurers are opposing it, just don't know how much of an earful that has been.

Trump has said he will veto it if it excludes pre-exisiting conditions, which despite Cassidy's claims, it seems to. Who knows whether he'll stick to that or not.

[ImLawBoy]

Trump has already tweeted multiple times about how great the bill is and that it covers preexisting conditions, so don't hold your breath hoping for a veto.

(Besides, injuries due to holding your breath won't be covered.)

[Holman]

Is this true what I'm seeing: the bribe for Murkowski's vote is that Alaska gets to keep Obamacare?

[Kurth]

I'm not seeing the media coverage that surrounded the last attempt to pass the repeal - I think that is a problem. It really sounds like they have to votes to get to 50 right now.

Here is a 538 piece on how we got here and what changed.

That was helpful. In short, thanks, Bernie!

[Chaz]

Trump will absolutely sign this thing. Technically, it does provide coverage for preexisting conditions. The problem is that it gives the states lots of leeway to grant waivers for both preexisting and minimum coverage levels, and you know that a bunch of states (primarily red ones) will grant those ASAP.

The really crazy thing is that the GOP claims to be in favor of smaller government, and yay individual responsibility. Yet this bill will remove subsidies given directly to individuals to get the health plan of their choosing, and give the money to the states instead, leaving it up to states to distribute, introducing an entire extra layer of government involvement. So that's small government, right?

[hepcat]

This has never been about reforming health care. It has never been about proper governance. It has been about destroying anything and everything Obama has done. Period.

As for Trump? He was insulted by Obama a few times. Now he has to pay. The Mangerine's ego demands it. Screw the American people. If they insult him, he'll hurt them too. Now, where's Ivanka? Daddy needs some sugar.

[Alefroth]

I'm not seeing the media coverage that surrounded the last attempt to pass the repeal - I think that is a problem. It really sounds like they have to votes to get to 50 right now.

Here is a 538 piece on how we got here and what changed.

That was helpful. In short, thanks, Bernie!

That's the short answer if you only read the first two paragraphs. Heller signed on long before Bernie started his Medicare for all proposal. This bill was coming regardless of what Bernie did.

[Kurth]

I'm not seeing the media coverage that surrounded the last attempt to pass the repeal - I think that is a problem. It really sounds like they have to votes to get to 50 right now.

Here is a 538 piece on how we got here and what changed.

That was helpful. In short, thanks, Bernie!

That's the short answer if you only read the first two paragraphs. Heller signed on long before Bernie started his Medicare for all proposal. This bill was coming regardless of what Bernie did.

I did read the whole article, and my take-away was that this thing gained momentum, at least in part, because the Democrats were distracted by the Bernie "Free Healthcare (and Ponies) for All" bill. Heller's switch is an enabling factor, but it seemed to me that the Bernie bill was a significant contributing factor and may make it more difficult for Murkowski and Collins and McCain and Paul to vote no. You're 100% right that this bill was coming regardless of what Bernie did, but in the end, whether it actually passes may have a lot to do with what Bernie did.

[malchior]

[You're 100% right that this bill was coming regardless of what Bernie did, but in the end, whether it actually passes may have a lot to do with what Bernie did.

IMO only in the sense that they get to spin a convenient lie to cover themselves. The idea that Bernie's bill was a threat that gave them a need to act is laughably ludicrous and thin.

[malchior]

There is a (possibly) interesting angle to think about that ties into the pension thread. New Jersey is hanging on by its fingernails right now and is on the edge of financial ruin despite one of the highest tax burdens in the country. We are a complete financial basket case and this plan cuts out billions of dollars in medicaid money. $500M tax shortfalls usually cause panic. Billions? Ruh roh! So the incompetents in Trenton would have to design a new state healthcare system while the financial walls are crumbling at the same time. If this happens it likely would be time to accelerate my exit plan.

[GreenGoo]

This has never been about reforming health care. It has never been about proper governance. It has been about destroying anything and everything Obama has done. Period.

As for Trump? He was insulted by Obama a few times. Now he has to pay. The Mangerine's ego demands it. Screw the American people. If they insult him, he'll hurt them too. Now, where's Ivanka? Daddy needs some sugar.

I just want to point out that this is demonstrably true. Drumpf's sole desire to become president, and sole desire as president, is to undermine Obama's real, actual accomplishments for the American people because Obama made light of him in public and people laughed.

That's it. You have a sitting president who is trying to take a sledge hammer to anything with a former president's name on it because his feelings were hurt, with zero regard for what that means for Americans or America. And you have millions of people cheering him on. We put preschool children in time out for this behaviour.

This is an infamous period in American history.

If there wasn't a clear moment in time before, this, now, will be marked as the beginning of the end of America's world influence and prominence. Hilariously and unironically it's happening to maga.

Can things be turned around? Sure. Anything is possible. Will it? I'm not confident. My only wish is that part of Drumpf's punishment in hell is being reminded that not only didn't he maga, he accelerated the flushing down the toilet of the systems that allowed him to prosper his whole life.

Fuck, I really, really hate that man. Which is good enough, right Rip? Mission accomplished. Stiggenit.

[Defiant]

CNN to host town hall debate Monday with Graham, Cassidy, Sanders and Klobuchar

So we've got Graham and Cassidy, who, by some accounts, aren't even aware about some of the things in their own bill, Sanders, defending the ACA that he also says needs to be replaced with his single payer bill... and someone named Klobuchar, who I've never heard of, but who hasn't signed on to Sanders bill.

[Kraken]

The ACA could be made to work, at least for a few years or even decades, if it had enough political support, but it does not, and it was always more of an uneasy compromise than a rational system anyway. Single-payer is the obvious endgame, as it is throughout the developed world. But the ACA has to fail in order to bring that about. Republicans are eager to hasten that outcome. From the wreckage, Medicare-for-all is most likely where we end up, probably well after 2020 unless Democrats sweep the House and impeach Trump first. It's unfortunate that so many of us will have to suffer and go bankrupt and die prematurely in the interim, but that's how you MAGA.

[Chaz]

I'd care more if this town hall was going to make a bit of difference. The facts about what this bill does are out there. It's incredibly clear that this bill will remove health care from millions who won't be able to afford the alternative, especially in states that lean blue, then remove everything from all the states in ten years. It's opposed by virtually every professional medical organization, and the insurance companies. It won't have a CBO score before the vote happens. All of this is incredibly public information, and public support for this, and all of the GOP's health care proposals has been historically low. Yet they've come within a hair's breadth of passing them before, and it seems increasingly likely that they'll pass this one.

A town hall on CNN where the Republicans lie about what the bill does and doesn't do, while Sanders proposes an unrealistic, if absolutely desirable, plan may be fun to watch, but it'll have less than no effect on anything. It's theater, and not even good theater. If this was in any way an earnest debate, it wouldn't be happening a day or two before the vote. They don't need to change minds, because they don't give two shits about whether this is a good bill, or whether it'll kill people. Like Hepcat says, this is 100% about denying Obama his legacy, at any cost, and preserving their own seats by letting them say that they delivered on their promise to get rid of that terrible Obamacare.

[Defiant]

Single-payer is the obvious endgame, as it is throughout the developed world.

Uh, it isn't. Most of the developed world has universal healthcare, but most do not have single payer healthcare - most have hybrid public/private systems.

[Kraken]

Single-payer is the obvious endgame, as it is throughout the developed world.

Uh, it isn't. Most of the developed world has universal healthcare, but most do not have single payer healthcare - most have hybrid public/private systems.

Fair enough, I was using "single payer" as shorthand. The US system is a hybrid, too. Medicare-for-all will be opt-in, diehard conservatives won't opt in, and there'll always be room for Medigap policies as government insurance can't afford to cover everything. Nobody holds the VA up as the ultimate goal, but nobody's unhappy about qualifying for Medicare apart from having to be 65 years old to do it.

I've only got five more years to get there myself, so I don't have a horse in this race unless the Republicans manage to ruin that, too.

[Zaxxon]

Kimmel vs Graham-Cassidy, Round 3: Fight!

[Toe]

I've only got five more years to get there myself, so I don't have a horse in this race unless the Republicans manage to ruin that, too.

Since most of the bills talk about big cuts in 10 years, I would think you most definitely have a horse in this race.

[Zaxxon]

WaPo reporting that McCain is a no.

[hepcat]

For some reason I thought McCain had earlier said he was voting for it. Did I just misunderstand/get the wrong info?

[Zaxxon]

For some reason I thought McCain had earlier said he was voting for it. Did I just misunderstand/get the wrong info?

I don't think he has said one way or another, but the was speculation that since his Governor is on board, he would be, too.

[malchior]

Good on McCain. This whole epic has been an abomination.

[LawBeefaroni]

For some reason I thought McCain had earlier said he was voting for it. Did I just misunderstand/get the wrong info?

I don't think he has said one way or another, but the was speculation that since his Governor is on board, he would be, too.

That's how I make all my decisions.

[Zaxxon]

For some reason I thought McCain had earlier said he was voting for it. Did I just misunderstand/get the wrong info?

I don't think he has said one way or another, but the was speculation that since his Governor is on board, he would be, too.

That's how I make all my decisions.

I didn't say it was a good modus operandi.

[Grifman]

Great news. Cain finally backed up his rhetoric with practical action. If this done now? Rand Paul has said no, which really surprises me, Collins is most likely a no, so now Murkowski, which is the one I was worried about, is irrelevant? Are we safe yet? Or will Dracula try to rise one more time after having another stake driven into his heart?

[ImLawBoy]

So who is left? Did they flip Murkowski?

[Defiant]

For some reason I thought McCain had earlier said he was voting for it. Did I just misunderstand/get the wrong info?

I don't think he has said one way or another, but the was speculation that since his Governor is on board, he would be, too.

He had said that he might vote for it if his governor was on board.

[Defiant]

Great news. Cain finally backed up his rhetoric with practical action. If this done now? Rand Paul has said no, which really surprises me, Collins is most likely a no, so now Murkowski, which is the one I was worried about, is irrelevant? Are we safe yet? Or will Dracula try to rise one more time after having another stake driven into his heart?

We're not safe until October 1st. There are no guarantees, just because someone says they'll vote no.

But things look a whole lot better.

[Grifman]

So who is left? Did they flip Murkowski?

She's been under enormous pressure but hasn't publicly said anything. That said I just read that Alaska would see between a 10% and 15% drop in funding under the bill, which would tend to make me believe that she would be a no. But so much is still unknown and up in the air.

[Carpet_pissr]

For some reason I thought McCain had earlier said he was voting for it. Did I just misunderstand/get the wrong info?

I don't think he has said one way or another, but the was speculation that since his Governor is on board, he would be, too.

Not to mention the bill was co-written by his lackey, Graham.

[Grifman]

Collins is most likely no:

http://theweek.com/speedreads/726362/go ... hcare-bill