Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

[LordMortis]

The CT "you get what you pay for" thing reminds of the King of the Hill episode where a vet keeps guilting Hank in to more and more tests for a cat he taking care of, where Hank finally attacks the vet and insists that if he must get all of these tests done that they vet must update to the latest equipment to perform these tests.

What's sad is that we generally aren't smart enough to know when we can bypass and MRI and CT scan or blood work or anything really. "Defensive medicine" pisses me off but it's my health and I'm don't have the understanding to know what's a waste and what isn't.

[RunningMn9]

There are a lot of reasons why people just can't simply go to where the grass is greener.

And yet somehow in the apocalyptic times before the ACA, most non-old people in this country still had employer-provided health insurance. We lived in a lawless time when no employers were required to provide health insurance as a benefit, and yet 75% of full-time workers worked for employers that provided health insurance. Why?

What I'm talking about is simply a way for employers to fix that cost going forward. The notion that instead of fixing that cost, all employers would suddenly decide to cripple their employees is stupid.

[geezer]

The CT "you get what you pay for" thing reminds of the King of the Hill episode where a vet keeps guilting Hank in to more and more tests for a cat he taking care of, where Hank finally attacks the vet and insists that if he must get all of these tests done that they vet must update to the latest equipment to perform these tests.

What's sad is that we generally aren't smart enough to know when we can bypass and MRI and CT scan or blood work or anything really. "Defensive medicine" pisses me off but it's my health and I'm don't have the understanding to know what's a waste and what isn't.

"Defensive medicine" accidentally found a brain aneurism and probably saved my wife's life. She's an outlier, of course, but I'm a fan

[Zarathud]

Defensive medicine is called due diligence. When doctors proclaim their expertise and specialization and don't practice general medicine, they have heightened burdens.

The family doctor who didn't catch my grandfather's kidney failure until it was too late gets a pass (for all the times he correctly diagnosed the family) where a specialist wouldn't have that excuse or reputation.

There is also certainly over-testing for financial reasons. Even to shut up hypochondriac patients or give excuses to doctors who can't make a full diagnosis. The tests aren't always prescribed to check the right condition , so they're repeated.

Blaming "defensive medicine" is an oversimplification that blames the lawyers.

[Nightwish]

That is because we have not yet reached the inevitable destination, patience. Healthcare will become federalized before I die, I am certain of it.

Even Britain, which is one of the most federalized of the systems, is moving further away from direct government control, so I think your prediction is unlikely.

They have been "decentralizing" it for almost a decade now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/25/world ... itain.html

How's that working out?

Awesome system they have. Can't wait till ours looks just like it.

From someone closer to the UK who reads about it from time to time, the NHS went to shit as soon as they started to measure performance and costs like if it was a private business. Costs ballooned, quality worsened and critics realized that it was on purpose to prop up the private health industry. It's hardly exclusive to the UK too, or to healthcare either, it's been a long corruption-driven assault all over Europe and we're paying more for worse services in healthcare, transportation, education and so on.

[Zarathud]

In other words, once the European GOP started running things like shit.

[Rip]

Blaming "defensive medicine" is an oversimplification that blames the lawyers.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

[Zarathud]

Truth doesn't matter, so long as you take a swing at someone on your enemies list?

You, sir, have no shame.

[Exodor]

You, sir, have no shame.

He's a self-admitted troll just looking for attention. I can't fathom why anyone bothers to respond at this point.

[Captain Caveman]

You, sir, have no shame.

He's a self-admitted troll just looking for attention. I can't fathom why anyone bothers to respond at this point.

What happened to you two? You use daily to be so in love.

[Exodor]

You, sir, have no shame.

He's a self-admitted troll just looking for attention. I can't fathom why anyone bothers to respond at this point.

What happened to you two? You use daily to be so in love.

Trump happened.

Trump ruins everything.


(also, I didn't realize that was still out there. )

[Rip]

Funny thing is I don't really care for Trump.

I would much rather Paul, Cruz, Pence, hell even Rubio.

[Rip]

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) revealed at a recent Missouri town hall that she could support a single-payer health care system.
A recent Urban Institute study suggests that a single-payer health care system could cost $32 trillion over the next ten years.

She (or the Urban Institute) totally stole my numbers.

[Skinypupy]

Ew, I just clicked on a Breitbart link. Unclean! Unclean!

I do find it interesting that they keep pointing back to the Urban Institute study, yet fail to include a link to it. They include a link to another Breitbart article which references the WaPo referencing the study, but don't link it there either. Makes me wonder what additional context is included in that study that they don't want their sheep to see. (I think it's this study if anyone wants to read it...I haven't had time yet this morning.)

[noxiousdog]

Ew, I just clicked on a Breitbart link. Unclean! Unclean!

I do find it interesting that they keep pointing back to the Urban Institute study, yet fail to include a link to it. They include a link to another Breitbart article which references the WaPo referencing the study, but don't link it there either. Makes me wonder what additional context is included in that study that they don't want their sheep to see. (I think it's this study if anyone wants to read it...I haven't had time yet this morning.)

Here's the secret math: we already spend at least 3 trillion per year. or possibly 3.8 trillion.

So, once again, it doesn't matter who pays. How much it costs is a completely different question from who pays.

[Enough]

Funny thing is I don't really care for Trump.

I would much rather Paul, Cruz, Pence, hell even Rubio.

Rats and sinking ships.

[Grifman]

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) revealed at a recent Missouri town hall that she could support a single-payer health care system.
A recent Urban Institute study suggests that a single-payer health care system could cost $32 trillion over the next ten years.

She (or the Urban Institute) totally stole my numbers.

The US spends about $3.2 trillion a year:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2 ... 4e38266dea

Multiply that by 10 and and you get $32 trillion. Single payer would not cost any more than what we pay now apparently. Do you have a point?

[Rip]

Funny thing is I don't really care for Trump.

I would much rather Paul, Cruz, Pence, hell even Rubio.

Rats and sinking ships.

While that may be true, you will find I was a Paul supporter from the beginning and shifted to Cruz after he withdrew. I didn't shift to Trump until it was either him or Clinton, and that is well documented right here on the forum. Nice try.

[LawBeefaroni]

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) revealed at a recent Missouri town hall that she could support a single-payer health care system.
A recent Urban Institute study suggests that a single-payer health care system could cost $32 trillion over the next ten years.

She (or the Urban Institute) totally stole my numbers.

The US spends about $3.2 trillion a year:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2 ... 4e38266dea

Multiply that by 10 and and you get $32 trillion. Single payer would not cost any more than what we pay now apparently. Do you have a point?

Over 1/3 of which is already Medicare or Medicaid.

[Rip]

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) revealed at a recent Missouri town hall that she could support a single-payer health care system.
A recent Urban Institute study suggests that a single-payer health care system could cost $32 trillion over the next ten years.

She (or the Urban Institute) totally stole my numbers.

The US spends about $3.2 trillion a year:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2 ... 4e38266dea

Multiply that by 10 and and you get $32 trillion. Single payer would not cost any more than what we pay now apparently. Do you have a point?

Well someone owes me a ton of money then, I haven't spent $10K total on healthcare my entire life.

[Skinypupy]

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) revealed at a recent Missouri town hall that she could support a single-payer health care system.
A recent Urban Institute study suggests that a single-payer health care system could cost $32 trillion over the next ten years.

She (or the Urban Institute) totally stole my numbers.

The US spends about $3.2 trillion a year:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2 ... 4e38266dea

Multiply that by 10 and and you get $32 trillion. Single payer would not cost any more than what we pay now apparently. Do you have a point?

Well someone owes me a ton of money then, I haven't spent $10K total on healthcare my entire life.

Thanks Rip. It had been a while since the GOP mantra of "I got mine, so fuck you" had been spoken aloud.

I was beginning to think that you all may have received new talking points or something.

[Isgrimnur]

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) revealed at a recent Missouri town hall that she could support a single-payer health care system.
A recent Urban Institute study suggests that a single-payer health care system could cost $32 trillion over the next ten years.

She (or the Urban Institute) totally stole my numbers.

The US spends about $3.2 trillion a year:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2 ... 4e38266dea

Multiply that by 10 and and you get $32 trillion. Single payer would not cost any more than what we pay now apparently. Do you have a point?

Well someone owes me a ton of money then, I haven't spent $10K total on healthcare my entire life.

No, but I'm sure the taxpayers probably paid a hell of a lot more to keep you alive.

[Isgrimnur]

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) revealed at a recent Missouri town hall that she could support a single-payer health care system.
A recent Urban Institute study suggests that a single-payer health care system could cost $32 trillion over the next ten years.

She (or the Urban Institute) totally stole my numbers.

The US spends about $3.2 trillion a year:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2 ... 4e38266dea

Multiply that by 10 and and you get $32 trillion. Single payer would not cost any more than what we pay now apparently. Do you have a point?

Well someone owes me a ton of money then, I haven't spent $10K total on healthcare my entire life.

No, but I'm sure the taxpayers probably paid a hell of a lot more to keep you alive.

[El Guapo]

So, Rip is the Little Mermaid? Do Mermaids have expensive medical conditions?

[coopasonic]

So, Rip is the Little Mermaid? Do Mermaids have expensive medical conditions?

He served on a sub... you know, under the sea?

[El Guapo]

So, Rip is the Little Mermaid? Do Mermaids have expensive medical conditions?

He served on a sub... you know, under the sea?

Oh, right. I just didn't know that he was a mermaid at the time.

[Zaxxon]

So, Rip is the Little Mermaid? Do Mermaids have expensive medical conditions?

He served on a sub... you know, under the sea?

Oh, right. I just didn't know that he was a mermaid at the time.

What do you mean, 'at the time?'

[LordMortis]

Well someone owes me a ton of money then, I haven't spent $10K total on healthcare my entire life.

Do you use roads? Phones, the electric grid, have kids that have gone to school, have had police so much as directing traffic, been near a fire, etc... There is a price to be paid for living in a comparatively advanced society and not everybody comes out ahead.

I've made a total of $400 worth of claims for an accident that someone else caused and I've paid close to $60,000 in auto insurance in my life, perhaps more. I have no kids and yet the lion's shave of 6% sales tax 4% income tax and what amounts about 5% of the salable value of my home every year in property taxes goes to education.

And yet if lose my job I'll lose my healthcare insurance and simple office visits that are required to get simple prescriptions will cost $400 a pop because I can't get the discounts a insurer can get and I don't even know how much non discounted prescriptions will cost. I am going to sponge on the public health care if it ever comes about and stays but then that sponge won't compare to the service I pay for and have never used and hopefully never will but that is my burden and if I were wealthier, my stake in this civilization would be higher and so to should be my burden, even if the direct pay back is actually smaller.

[Rip]

That makes no sense.

Do you think there is some special health care on a submarine?

About the only health care I got while in the service was physicals, and maybe radiation monitoring which would be a stretch to call health care. Either way little cost involved.

[Vorret]

That makes no sense.

Do you think there is some special health care on a submarine?

About the only health care I got while in the service was physicals, and maybe radiation monitoring which would be a stretch to call health care. Either way little cost involved.

I'm pretty sure they meant paying for maintenance of the submarines / food / etc

[Rip]

That makes no sense.

Do you think there is some special health care on a submarine?

About the only health care I got while in the service was physicals, and maybe radiation monitoring which would be a stretch to call health care. Either way little cost involved.

I'm pretty sure they meant paying for maintenance of the submarines / food / etc

Yea, that isn't health care.

[El Guapo]

So, Rip is the Little Mermaid? Do Mermaids have expensive medical conditions?

He served on a sub... you know, under the sea?

Oh, right. I just didn't know that he was a mermaid at the time.

What do you mean, 'at the time?'

Before the Sea Witch transformed his fins into legs, I mean. Which I think his insurance company paid a pretty penny for, incidentally.

[Isgrimnur]

I'm pretty sure your health would have been negatively impacted had it not been provided.

So, Rip is the Little Mermaid? Do Mermaids have expensive medical conditions?

He served on a sub... you know, under the sea?

Oh, right. I just didn't know that he was a mermaid at the time.

What do you mean, 'at the time?'

It's not nice to ask if someone is pre- or post-op.

[geezer]

Funny thing is I don't really care for Trump.

I would much rather Paul, Cruz, Pence, hell even Rubio.

Rats and sinking ships.

While that may be true, you will find I was a Paul supporter from the beginning and shifted to Cruz after he withdrew.

Edit.. Rude comment deleted. I apologize. (But Ted Cruz really is the worst.)

[LawBeefaroni]

Well someone owes me a ton of money then, I haven't spent $10K total on healthcare my entire life.

That's not how insurance works.

You're about a thousand different ways away from needing $10k of healthcare. If end up in an ER you will get whatever care you need, despite your best efforts. You can pretend you don't know that. Doesn't change the fact that we as a society want at least a basic level of care for everyone.

[Rip]

I'm pretty sure your health would have been negatively impacted had it not been provided.

So, Rip is the Little Mermaid? Do Mermaids have expensive medical conditions?

He served on a sub... you know, under the sea?

Oh, right. I just didn't know that he was a mermaid at the time.

What do you mean, 'at the time?'

It's not nice to ask if someone is pre- or post-op.

I'm pretty sure yours would be negatively affected if your company didn't provide A/C, exterminators, or maintain their building, etc. Are we going to start calling all of that health care? If so we are spending more like $320T a year now on health care.

[Zarathud]

You're moving goalposts again, Rip.

You might need to see a doctor about that.

[Max Peck]

I'm pretty sure your health would have been negatively impacted had it not been provided.

So, Rip is the Little Mermaid? Do Mermaids have expensive medical conditions?

He served on a sub... you know, under the sea?

Oh, right. I just didn't know that he was a mermaid at the time.

What do you mean, 'at the time?'

It's not nice to ask if someone is pre- or post-op.

The pertinent question is whether or not the Navy paid for the transition.

[gbasden]

Well someone owes me a ton of money then, I haven't spent $10K total on healthcare my entire life.

That's awesome, but some of us came up craps in the genetic lottery and depend on access to health care to keep living. The fact that you are supremely healthy doesn't mean dick for those of us that aren't.

[Zarathud]

I fully expect Rip will cost once he gets that inner asshole checked out. Or he finally gets sick.

Rip is not counting kids or childbirth--either kids or his own--and likely not his wife either.