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Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:24 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:14 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:14 pm
Santa is not a natural-born citizen of the United States.
Yes he is, and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.
He's an international bon vivant guilty of tax and labor violations.
In Santa Claus Post Office in northern Finland two elves in red felt hats are poring over one of the thousands of letters to have arrived that morning. Fortified by little more than a tray of hot berry juice and spicy gingerbread, they have spent hours sorting them in pigeonholes according to their postmark. Geopolitics and the spreading global footprint of the Santa phenomenon are difficult to keep pace with. 'Do we have a box for Southern Sudan?’ one asks. 'And what about Tuvalu?’

The elves are full-time employees of the Finnish post office, but a job at this branch requires skills that would not be needed behind an average post-office counter.
...
The Finnish post office isn’t alone in receiving and replying to letters from Santa. Since the 1950s, American children have sent their missives to the Alaskan town of North Pole. Thirty years ago, Canada Post created an address for the million Santa letters sent to them annually – 'Santa Claus, North Pole, Canada HOH OHO’. Eight hundred thousand letters are sent by British children to the Royal Mail’s special address 'Santa/Father Christmas, Santa’s Grotto, Reindeerland XM4 5HQ’. (A reply is sent from a sorting office in Belfast before Christmas if they include a return address and send it in time for the normal last Christmas postal date.)

But, if correspondents stray from this formula and use the names of any real places – such as Lapland or Greenland, then the letters will be sent north to either Finland or Denmark (from where they won’t get a reply: austerity cuts killed off Greenland’s letters from Santa several years ago).
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LordMortis
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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by LordMortis » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:58 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:14 pm
Santa is not a natural-born citizen of the United States.
They're telling me begin natural born and citizenship aren't the same thing.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:21 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:22 pm
Ok, let's meet behind the benches in the school yard after school tomorrow.
Ok, ok, he's not a resident. sheesh.

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Z-Corn
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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Z-Corn » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:36 pm

I took Wednesday off. I'm going to go out and have a drinking lunch to celebrate our bright new future.

That and it's my birthday.

I expect nice things for my birthday.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Holman » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:32 pm

Me voting in 2016 / Me voting in 2018:

Image
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by El Guapo » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:25 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:58 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:14 pm
Santa is not a natural-born citizen of the United States.
They're telling me begin natural born and citizenship aren't the same thing.
They are not. While it's not specifically defined in the constitution, "natural-born" citizenship means that you are a citizen at birth, whether due to being born to a U.S. parent or due to being born in the United States.

Santa could become a naturalized citizen, though, and could become a governor or Senator, say.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by LordMortis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:41 am

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:25 pm
Santa could become a naturalized citizen, though, and could become a governor or Senator, say.
I'm thinking I don't need to amend the constitution to declare Santa president. He's a good American that supports my plan. Look at all the jobs he's created with current tarrifs. Kids are playing with more toys than they ever have. I think I might make him president.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by $iljanus » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:43 am

LordMortis wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:41 am
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:25 pm
Santa could become a naturalized citizen, though, and could become a governor or Senator, say.
I'm thinking I don't need to amend the constitution to declare Santa president. He's a good American that supports my plan. Look at all the jobs he's created with current tarrifs. Kids are playing with more toys than they ever have. I think I might make him president.
Doesn’t Santa use overseas labor to make toys, taking jobs from Americans?
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by LordMortis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:53 am

$iljanus wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:43 am
Doesn’t Santa use overseas labor to make toys, taking jobs from Americans?
Elves are good proud Americans. They get a bad rap just because their tall and white and love bow hunting. The whole north pole short people under heavy labor abuse thing. Fake news! But if jobs do end up at the North Pole and working conditions suffer, you can blame it on people who vote Democrats today and chase Santa out of our "GREAT Nation".

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Fitzy » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:02 am

LordMortis wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:53 am
$iljanus wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:43 am
Doesn’t Santa use overseas labor to make toys, taking jobs from Americans?
Elves are good proud Americans. They get a bad rap just because their tall and white and love bow hunting. The whole north pole short people under heavy labor abuse thing. Fake news! But if jobs do end up at the North Pole and working conditions suffer, you can blame it on people who vote Democrats today and chase Santa out of our "GREAT Nation".
Elves are commie trouble markers trying to destroy the capitalistic American system of consumerism by the great Claus.



And they’re Canadian.
Last edited by Fitzy on Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by LordMortis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:50 am

Fitzy wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:02 am
And their Canadian.
They were Canadian Elves. Now I call them beautiful elves. They're great Americans and want preserve American jobs by voting republican. Canadians are only trying to sneak into America to vote illegally and you can see it by the numbers in which they vote for Democrats. If I don't make Santa president, I don't know what the elves will do when democrats and HIGH TAX HIGH CRIME PELOSI try to change the Supreme Court to take your bows. That's what's really going on here. Can you belie... Pocahontas and sleepy eyes Chuck Shumer want to take away your bows and regulate your toys and destroy all of the work I have done. Santa has never employed more people. People have never had so many toys. And the US toy market is breaking records.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Holman » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:04 am



What... what planet is this?
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by YellowKing » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:18 am

What's scary is that there are a lot of people out there that listen to this and go, "You know, that makes perfect sense." And they're driving cars, and working jobs with important responsibilities.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by LordMortis » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:29 am

YellowKing wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:18 am
What's scary is that there are a lot of people out there that listen to this and go, "You know, that makes perfect sense." And they're driving cars, and working jobs with important responsibilities.

I don't hear that. I hear something approximating, "He shouldn't say it like that but he's telling it how it is" and then they will pick and choose an what they want and talk about one thing they can point to or *an idea* that sticks in the craw, like "ObamaCare benefits are all going to people who don't pay taxes and they keep bringing their whole families here. Generations are coming here and getting free medical without paying taxes and I can't even qualify to get health care at all, so I don't take my medicine because I need to get tests every time just to get the same pills. You know not one democrat voted to fix Obamacare." I kid you not, this time last year at a meal table I go and left before a thought was finished on "For all of this gun control and violence coming the right talk, you don't see republicans going around shooting democrats they don't agree with" (in reference to the DC baseball shootings) I never let her finish her thought.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Carpet_pissr » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:33 am

Hell, the people immediately behind him aren’t even listening to his stupider-than-normal gibberish. I seriously doubt Joe the Plumber in his car is honed in. (I mean seriously look at their faces at the beginning, then immediately when he gets into the verbal explosive diarrhea, they immediately stop smiling, look around, anything but actively listening to his bullshit. There must be a mental switch in Deplorables that shuts off so they aren’t exposed to his siren wail.

But Fox News will likely extract some sense out of this and feed it to the deplorable horde packaged to make sense. Feel sorry for the poor shmuck that has to edit that footage!

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Defiant » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:34 am

It was never too early to think about 2018. JFK prepared this ad to get people out to vote in this election more than 50 years ago:


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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Defiant » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:25 am

YellowKing wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:07 pm
We have our regularly scheduled game night tomorrow, and I'm kind of glad for the diversion.
This was pretty much my evening. Played two long board games. Between them, I peeked at the election results and then decided not to think about the election at all. Things looked better when I finished the two.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Zarathud » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:32 am

Ok, now it's too late.

The Democrats faced a tough road in the Senate, and there's a lot of win for the Deplorables tonight despite the change in the House.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by LordMortis » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:01 pm

There are memes going around of Pence swearing in Sinema on a law book and the Freep has this about Tlaib this morning. I hate to feel excitement over negativity and taking such adversarial stances, but I do. I feel it.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politi ... 480451002/
"People love you. And you win," she told a cheering crowd in a 20-second video published on Twitter. "And when your son looks at you and says, 'Momma, look you won, bullies don’t win.' And I said, 'Baby, they don't.'

"Because we’re gonna go in there and we're gonna impeach the mother****er."
I'm not even sure impeachment is the way to go (I'm still waiting on Mueller) but I feel the sentiment even I don't think it's the right one (again Mueller first, then we'll see what's up) Makes me both happy (the passionate for for meaningful change) and concerned (it's a half cocked statement and I'm sick if not scared of those) that I voted for her.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:22 pm

I'm conflicted over the use of harsh profanity here. On the one hand, I hate the motherfucker. On the other, I expect a certain level of decorum from elected officials, even when addressing a small group of enthusiastic supporters.

It's not really the words exactly, it's the lack of professionalism and restraint, I think, although admittedly less harsh profanity would be less on my radar, so I guess it's the words too.

Fiery politicians are a major turn off. That's how mobs form and do crazy and sometimes horrific things.

Shrug. Welcome to the world the deplorables built and the GOP endorsed.

Fantastic.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by YellowKing » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:28 pm

Agree, and the fact is that we're never going to get back to both parties being able to work together if one side is calling the president a motherfucker. Think it all you want, but saying it just reinforces the divide.

Pelosi made a great attempt at this when accepting the Speaker position yesterday and mentioning Reagan and Bush Sr as an appeal to the GOP.

The parties don't have to agree, but they do have to work together like adults doing the nation's business. And since clearly one side is unwilling right now to do so, it's up to the Democrats to take the high road and lead by example.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by LordMortis » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:40 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:22 pm

Fiery politicians are a major turn off.
I don't mind firey. I often like it, but you better be dead on balls accurate with your fire and I don't think "Impeach the motherfucker" is a dead on balls accurate call. That's a mob inciter like "Lock her up." I voted for her. I'm still ashamed of my vote but I do have concern and do not approve.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:44 pm

Wait, is that ashamed or unashamed?

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LordMortis
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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by LordMortis » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:26 pm

not ashamed. Common problem of mine and not a good one to have.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:56 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:26 pm
not ashamed. Common problem of mine and not a good one to have.
Ditto.

It is frustrating to say the opposite of what you mean.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by El Guapo » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:54 pm

If Democrats ultimately decide to pursue impeachment, they'll need to present it as not driven by politics but by Trump's deeds. Saying "let's impeach that motherfucker" is contrary to that, and not especially helpful.

That said, I don't care that much, and I don't think this will matter in the long run.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by gbasden » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:14 am

YellowKing wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:28 pm
Agree, and the fact is that we're never going to get back to both parties being able to work together if one side is calling the president a motherfucker. Think it all you want, but saying it just reinforces the divide.

Pelosi made a great attempt at this when accepting the Speaker position yesterday and mentioning Reagan and Bush Sr as an appeal to the GOP.

The parties don't have to agree, but they do have to work together like adults doing the nation's business. And since clearly one side is unwilling right now to do so, it's up to the Democrats to take the high road and lead by example.
The democrats are always called upon to be the adults and take the high road and they continually get kicked in the nuts. At some point they are going to have to kick back.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by YellowKing » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:22 am

gbasden wrote:The democrats are always called upon to be the adults and take the high road and they continually get kicked in the nuts. At some point they are going to have to kick back.
The Blue Wave was a kick to the GOP's nuts. The Dems have the momentum now, and it would be foolish to cock that up by playing directly into the GOP's hand by stooping to their level.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by gbasden » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:35 am

YellowKing wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:22 am
gbasden wrote:The democrats are always called upon to be the adults and take the high road and they continually get kicked in the nuts. At some point they are going to have to kick back.
The Blue Wave was a kick to the GOP's nuts. The Dems have the momentum now, and it would be foolish to cock that up by playing directly into the GOP's hand by stooping to their level.
How many times do you try to be bipartisan before you realize there's no point? How many times do you pursue a grand bargain only to get your compromise proposal vilified? I want them to start putting out actual policy proposals and stop pretending the R's can govern. Get a majority and pass what you can over their dead bodies.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:53 am

gbasden wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:35 am
How many times do you try to be bipartisan before you realize there's no point?
If you're trying to govern a nation, an infinite number of times. You can't stop being reasonable and inclusive just because your opposition is neither of those things.

You have a nation of over 300 million souls that need the best you can give them. If the other side refuses, that's on them. You can't stop offering though. Like, ever.

You can, however, plan for their inevitable refusal and stupid games from the start.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by YellowKing » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:44 am

gbasden wrote:Get a majority and pass what you can over their dead bodies.
I agree, but I think the only way you get that majority is by being the adults in the room. Public perception of Congress is terrible (for both parties), so the only way to dig out of that hole is to lead by example. At some point the public (or at least enough of a majority of the public) will recognize that only one party is acting in the interest of the country and the other is acting like a psychotic toddler.

We have to break the hyper-partisan cycle, and the only way to do that is for one side to stop being hyper-partisan. As much as it will suck for them.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Malificent » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:39 am

Prisoners Dilemma game theory would suggest you play nice with the other guy until he stops. Then you have to return in kind.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by gbasden » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:15 pm

YellowKing wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:44 am
gbasden wrote:Get a majority and pass what you can over their dead bodies.
I agree, but I think the only way you get that majority is by being the adults in the room. Public perception of Congress is terrible (for both parties), so the only way to dig out of that hole is to lead by example. At some point the public (or at least enough of a majority of the public) will recognize that only one party is acting in the interest of the country and the other is acting like a psychotic toddler.

We have to break the hyper-partisan cycle, and the only way to do that is for one side to stop being hyper-partisan. As much as it will suck for them.
The problem with that is that it lets the other side take hostages. Should the Democrats cave and let Trump have his stupid wall? Arguably, the government shutdown is doing damage and we would be better off getting people paychecks again. But that lets the side with no scruples have the ultimate bargaining chip. At some point they need to enunciate their principles and stick to them rather than caving.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Fitzy » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:45 pm

gbasden wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:15 pm
YellowKing wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:44 am
gbasden wrote:Get a majority and pass what you can over their dead bodies.
I agree, but I think the only way you get that majority is by being the adults in the room. Public perception of Congress is terrible (for both parties), so the only way to dig out of that hole is to lead by example. At some point the public (or at least enough of a majority of the public) will recognize that only one party is acting in the interest of the country and the other is acting like a psychotic toddler.

We have to break the hyper-partisan cycle, and the only way to do that is for one side to stop being hyper-partisan. As much as it will suck for them.
The problem with that is that it lets the other side take hostages. Should the Democrats cave and let Trump have his stupid wall? Arguably, the government shutdown is doing damage and we would be better off getting people paychecks again. But that lets the side with no scruples have the ultimate bargaining chip. At some point they need to enunciate their principles and stick to them rather than caving.
They should never get to a shutdown to begin with.

Everyone knew the appropriations were due Sept 30, they failed to compromise
Everyone knew the CR came due in Dec. They failed to come to an agreement.
Everyone in DC knows Trump is unreliable. They waited until the last minute anyway.

I am well aware that most of this falls on the Republicans. They held both houses. That said, the Democrats had just enough power to block anything, meaning part of this is on them too.

Now, you’re right. They give in and it sets a bad precedent. The Republicans in Congress should be considering that. They are going to be dealing with the next Democrat in the White House and every power they allow Trump to have, the next Dem will grasp with both hands and, unless the world really goes to hell, the next Dem president will be competent, unlike Trump. Power + competency is very dangerous.

As my wife is directly affected by this, it is very hard to watch the Democrats running around talking about impeachment, and passing many other bills, but putting their foot down and refusing to negotiate. I understand it intellectually, but emotionally, watching my wife suffer while she wonders how many people will die or be hurt because she can’t help...that’s hard.

And then after it closed, to watch both parties walk out Washington. To hear Pelosi is at an exclusive Hawaiian resort. That no one is bothering to talk over the holiday.

And now, they went home again. And Democrats are either loudly calling for no end to the shutdown unless Trump gives in entirely or wringing their hands (my Senators and Rep) that there’s nothing they can do. Bullshit. There’s a lot you could do. You choose not to. Just like you chose not to do anything leading up to this except “Stand Strong!”

So yeah. I’m blaming Trump. I blame McConnell and Ryan and every cowardly republican who isn’t doing anything. They are to blame and I’d gladly watch them get run over by truck. But I’ve got a little left over for Cardin, Van Hollen and Ruskin (my Sens and Rep) and a little for Pelosi and Schumer.

And whole shit ton for myself.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:20 pm

You know there was a bipartisan agreement in place before the shutdown, right?

Then Drumpf signalled he wouldn't sign it and the Republicans took his stance as their own.

The point being the shutdown was avoided, then Drumpf happened.

As pointed out, if you cave, he'll hold the government hostage at every opportunity because he knows it works. You can work at a compromise, which they have repeatedly done, including tons of money for border security, but you can't simply give him what he wants. The reps need to give him a timeout and just work around him. Very few reps want the wall either, because they know it's a boondoggle. Fox News is literally pulling Drumpf's strings here, in plain view, and no one on that side is willing to do anything about it.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Fitzy » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:51 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:20 pm
You know there was a bipartisan agreement in place before the shutdown, right?

Then Drumpf signalled he wouldn't sign it and the Republicans took his stance as their own.

The point being the shutdown was avoided, then Drumpf happened.
OMG, fer realz? I had no idea! This changes everything!!!!

Allow me to restate, WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE GOTTEN TO A POINT WHERE A SHUTDOWN WAS EVEN AN OPTION

All of the appropriation bills should have been done before Sept 30. Given the power imbalance, this is mostly on the Republicans. However, given that the Democrats do have enough votes to block any funding bill in the Senate, they should get some of the blame.

The specific reason for this shutdown is Trump being Trump. I get that. The reason for the continued shutdown is two red lines with no room for compromise.

The wonderful bipartisan agreement you mention only kicked the bill down to Feb, we’d still be in the same position, though without people in furlough, which would be better.

I flat out said I agree the Democrats should not give in on this specific shutdown due to the power shift that would give. We cannot have an executive with that kind of power. The Democrats could agree to talks on immigration reform and that those talks might include barriers.

So yes, the government should be reopened without the wall funding. Once that happens something has to change and that includes the Democrats.

If the Democrats position is no barriers of any kind ever, and the Republican position is 2000 miles of 500 foot high walls, that doesn’t leave a whole lot of wiggle room. Someone is going to have to give in. The best option is Democrats agreeing that barriers, including—dare I say it?—walls, are going to have to be built in a few places, and Trump is going to have to flat out admit we are never building a 2000 mile wall.

Since neither side is going there, we are stuck.

Which brings me back full circle to... there’s blame on both sides. Not equal blame. But yep, both sides are going to have to compromise to get anything done. I realize that doesn’t fit into your world view of “Trump bad, Dems good” but it is the actual reality.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:18 pm

Yeah, for reals.

In light of your awareness I find your previous post confusing.

Make sure you take your carefully considered both sides when you vote in 2020. Maybe you can find an independent you like, or spoil your vote.

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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Zarathud » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:13 pm

The Democrats don't have to compromise. Obama spent 6 years facing a petulant Ryan-McConnell. While being an adult and trying to find responsible solutions. Fuck that. You don't negotiate with a toddler or terrorist because that gives them power for future demands.

Beating Trump here sets the tone to reign him in for the next two years. Trump is weakened by the standoff because he foolishly overstepped and then accepted responsibility for a shutdown. Then he was goaded into embracing a shutdown.

Anyway, the Democrats gave Trump an out -- fund the government except Homeland Security. Or give up DACA.

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

malchior
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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by malchior » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:35 pm

Fitzy wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:51 am
Allow me to restate, WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE GOTTEN TO A POINT WHERE A SHUTDOWN WAS EVEN AN OPTION

All of the appropriation bills should have been done before Sept 30. Given the power imbalance, this is mostly on the Republicans. However, given that the Democrats do have enough votes to block any funding bill in the Senate, they should get some of the blame.
You have to explain this because it doesn't really compute. The Republicans held all the levers but because the Dems had some measure of 'blocking power' they had responsibility? I could go with that if the Dems had used that power meaningfully. They didn't drag out the budget process. It was the WH and the Republican leadership. 100%. I guess you could argue there is some delay around the edges you could pin on the Dems through the course of normal BAU but heaping any meaningful part of the blame on them...feels a bit unjust and not realistic.
Which brings me back full circle to... there’s blame on both sides. Not equal blame. But yep, both sides are going to have to compromise to get anything done. I realize that doesn’t fit into your world view of “Trump bad, Dems good” but it is the actual reality.
I'd peg it at 95%/5% and only because the Dems could throw in the towel now. Still, the Democrats for many reasons can not and should not back off here. They just won at the polls. Trump is attacking Democracy at every turn. For them, to say we won this election but Trump still gets to do whatever he wants would be disastrous long-term.

Anyway, I get you have skin in the game. I do as well in a roundabout way. I'm probably looking at layoffs across my team if this drags on. But this is looking like a lot of what passes for conventional wisdom that blame must be apportioned to both sides in heaping doses. This is a case where that is largely not true. The problem is almost 100% Trump/McConnell. Until those two figure out a plan then there is no progress to be had. There is no compromise here on a wall. As it should be.

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Alefroth
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Re: Too Late To Start Thinking About 2018?

Post by Alefroth » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:50 pm

Fitzy wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:51 am

Which brings me back full circle to... there’s blame on both sides. Not equal blame. But yep, both sides are going to have to compromise to get anything done. I realize that doesn’t fit into your world view of “Trump bad, Dems good” but it is the actual reality.
What compromises have the GOP put forth? If you need the help of the minority party, then you need to do something to get that help. You don't just blame the Democrats for not giving in to every demand.

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