Russia influences election

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:03 am

Smoove_B wrote:But in all seriousness, if the fact (and I'm using Comey's testimony as a point of reference here) that there was Russian intrusion into our electoral process doesn't shake people out of their Us vs.Them political party mentality, then we're beyond screwed. As numerous individuals have stated, this isn't a party problem. The intrusions and actions were "wide net" in nature, designed to disrupt the system - whatever angle worked.

From where I sit Comey's testimony is just another symptom and not the straw. We are more than screwed because Trump is in office acting as a conman and this apparently emboldens 42% of of his voters to believe that politicians body slamming reporters is good behavior. You guys like to discuss things in terms of crisis. That's evidence of crisis IMO.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:08 am

Smoove_B wrote:
Holman wrote:This is waaaay beyond just DNC emails.
Yeah, but there's healthcare to repeal. We can't be focused on voting - at least not until the spring of 2018.

But in all seriousness, if the fact (and I'm using Comey's testimony as a point of reference here) that there was Russian intrusion into our electoral process doesn't shake people out of their Us vs.Them political party mentality, then we're beyond screwed. As numerous individuals have stated, this isn't a party problem. The intrusions and actions were "wide net" in nature, designed to disrupt the system - whatever angle worked.

Yup. Had Hillary won, it's all but certain that Russia would have fed proofs to WikiLeaks that someone had been hacking the vote--just like Trump kept warning that Hillary would.

These proofs would look authentic because someone HAD been hacking the systems.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:29 am

Holman wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:
Holman wrote:This is waaaay beyond just DNC emails.
Yeah, but there's healthcare to repeal. We can't be focused on voting - at least not until the spring of 2018.

But in all seriousness, if the fact (and I'm using Comey's testimony as a point of reference here) that there was Russian intrusion into our electoral process doesn't shake people out of their Us vs.Them political party mentality, then we're beyond screwed. As numerous individuals have stated, this isn't a party problem. The intrusions and actions were "wide net" in nature, designed to disrupt the system - whatever angle worked.
Yup. Had Hillary won, it's all but certain that Russia would have fed proofs to WikiLeaks that someone had been hacking the vote--just like Trump kept warning that Hillary would.

These proofs would look authentic because someone HAD been hacking the systems.

And we'd probably have domestic terrorism by so called patriots on the rise.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:59 am

Still in denial?

I would have thought even you guys would have made it past stage one by now.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:02 am

BENGHAZI!

(just thought your hypocrisy needed a reminder

)

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:15 pm

The assumption is even though we are a shit show right now we know we can't blame everything on Donny. He is a symptom of how much trouble democracy is our country is.

Some of us realize even if the democrats had won we would still have Russian tampering to deal with.

Anyone who applauds this situation deserves the contempt they receive.

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$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:43 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:The assumption is even though we are a shit show right now we know we can't blame everything on Donny. He is a symptom of how much trouble democracy is our country is.

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On the blame scale I'll give Donald three out of five ice cream scoops in favor of him shouldering the blame.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:50 pm

$iljanus wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:The assumption is even though we are a shit show right now we know we can't blame everything on Donny. He is a symptom of how much trouble democracy is our country is.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
On the blame scale I'll give Donald three out of five ice cream scoops in favor of him shouldering the blame.

I think he's just a muse. But he's a muse who holds all of the collective power over the millions of angry unto the point of violence self deceived US citizens, who see Trump as their axe grinder.

I hear his next hotel will include a monorail to the golf course.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:15 pm

If the Republicans weren't traitorous stooges this section of his opening statement should raise eyebrows.

The scope of my recusal, however, does not and cannot interfere with my ability to oversee the Department of Justice, including the FBI, which has an $8 billion budget and 35,000 employees. I presented to the President my concerns, and those of Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, about the ongoing leadership issues at the FBI as stated in my letter recommending the removal of Mr. Comey along with the Deputy Attorney General’s memorandum, which have been released publicly by the White House. It is a clear statement of my views. It is absurd, frankly, to suggest that a recusal from a single specific investigation would render an Attorney General unable to manage the leadership of the various Department of Justice law enforcement components that conduct thousands of investigations.

There was no ongoing leadership issue. The President went on TV and said he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation. How Sessions can peddle this blatant lie under oath is incredible. This is lying in spite of the record of a nationally broadcast interview. I don't know how we can recover from this crew.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:25 pm

Sessions isn't much of a public speaker, is he?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:29 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:Sessions isn't much of a public speaker, is he?

Yeah - he is pretty bad. Also there are already contradictions of his testimony popping up. For instance, having never met Kislyak at the Mayflower...there are literal pictures of them talking at the event. The lying is just amazing.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:34 pm

malchior wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:Sessions isn't much of a public speaker, is he?
Yeah - he is pretty bad. Also there are already contradictions of his testimony popping up. For instance, having never met Kislyak at the Mayflower...there are literal pictures of them talking at the event. The lying is just amazing.

As long as the GOP is in control and their constituency don't care it doesn't matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbAqWA-dxvw

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:45 pm

I have to wonder if in 500 years people will be talking about why Democracy as we understand it failed and point at this time as a prime example. I don't think there ever was a concentrated period of verifiable blatant flat out lying as there is now with no consequences. A system that relies on the party not in the Presidency having control of a chamber of Congress to provide a check on the system is no check at all.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:56 pm

I wonder if it will be looked at as the time the socialists nearly toppled Democracy but they faltered after falling victim to a woman with an insatiable ambition who led them to slaughter by a man who didn't even really know what he was doing.

Democracy truly is indestructible.

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:57 pm

I actually think he's doing a pretty good job. He's telling a consistent, if not an entirely convincing story. No one is going to turn against Trump/Sessions due to this testimony, and some might actually go the other way.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:07 pm

He is getting better. The indignation display seems genuine.

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Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:07 pm

But is lying quite a lot.

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malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:11 pm

PLW wrote:I actually think he's doing a pretty good job. He's telling a consistent, if not an entirely convincing story. No one is going to turn against Trump/Sessions due to this testimony, and some might actually go the other way.

He got better but I think Wyden and Heinrich got the better of him. At times he gets obviously flustered. Especially in regards to his own sense of inflated integrity. An easy button to push when he is lying.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:12 pm

malchior wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:Sessions isn't much of a public speaker, is he?
Yeah - he is pretty bad. Also there are already contradictions of his testimony popping up. For instance, having never met Kislyak at the Mayflower...there are literal pictures of them talking at the event. The lying is just amazing.

He said he doesn't remember, and if he did, it was only in passing. That seems entirely reasonable. And I don't think it is really relevant, I doubt he was plotting collusion with the Russians at a public event. This is a can of nothing and Democrats should move on. There's nothing here.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:24 pm

Sessions isn't going to sink Trump, and no one in the Senate will have the willpower to go after "good old" Jeff.

The play will be Trump's son-in-law, top campaign managers and business associates. If Trump stops the investigation, it will be to save Jared.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:29 pm

Fair enough on claiming he doesn't recollect. However It seems improbable that the man didn't get briefed for this hearing. Moreover it also seems unlikely that someone didn't mention there are publicly available photos of Sessions talking face to face with Kislyak. Considering it is a major point of the hearing. It doesn't pass the sniff test. At all. It isn't about collusion at a public event - this is a question of his integrity. Especially when he is claiming that Comey is lying. He needs to not impeach his own credibility. This didn't help.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:34 pm

malchior wrote:Fair enough on claiming he doesn't recollect. However It seems improbable that the man didn't get briefed for this hearing. Moreover it also seems unlikely that someone didn't mention there are publicly available photos of Sessions talking face to face with Kislyak. Considering it is a major point of the hearing. It doesn't pass the sniff test. At all. It isn't about collusion at a public event - this is a question of his integrity. Especially when he is claiming that Comey is lying. He needs to not impeach his own credibility. This didn't help.

Exchanging pleasantries with someone going into or leaving an event != having a meeting. The people who organized the meeting have already said it would have been impossible for someone to have had any kind of private conversation at the event.

You are grasping at straws.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:37 pm

Rip wrote:
malchior wrote:Fair enough on claiming he doesn't recollect. However It seems improbable that the man didn't get briefed for this hearing. Moreover it also seems unlikely that someone didn't mention there are publicly available photos of Sessions talking face to face with Kislyak. Considering it is a major point of the hearing. It doesn't pass the sniff test. At all. It isn't about collusion at a public event - this is a question of his integrity. Especially when he is claiming that Comey is lying. He needs to not impeach his own credibility. This didn't help.
Exchanging pleasantries with someone going into or leaving an event != having a meeting. The people who organized the meeting have already said it would have been impossible for someone to have had any kind of private conversation at the event.

You are grasping at straws.

Wasn't lawyerly parsing one of Bill's deadly sins?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:45 pm

Rip wrote:I wonder if it will be looked at as the time the socialists nearly toppled Democracy but they faltered after falling victim to a woman with an insatiable ambition who led them to slaughter by a man who didn't even really know what he was doing.

Democracy truly is indestructible.

Well, it's certainly safe from those who don't actually know what socialism is.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:45 pm

Sessions is clearly trying to stall by giving long-winded answers to almost every question. Even when told to just answer "Yes" or "No", he rambles for 30 seconds to each question.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:46 pm

Some of the Democratic questioning, in not allowing Sessions to finish, comes off as rude and badgering the witness. Ask your question and let me man answer. This isn't a criminal trial, and now isn't the time to showboat. My opinion.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:51 pm

Zarathud wrote:Sessions isn't going to sink Trump, and no one in the Senate will have the willpower to go after "good old" Jeff.

The play will be Trump's son-in-law, top campaign managers and business associates. If Trump stops the investigation, it will be to save Jared.

I am inclined to think that any significant issues with Sessions's testimony are more likely to arise when people start picking it over and contrasting it with developing facts. But we'll see.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:59 pm

Zarathud wrote:Sessions isn't going to sink Trump, and no one in the Senate will have the willpower to go after "good old" Jeff.

The play will be Trump's son-in-law, top campaign managers and business associates. If Trump stops the investigation, it will be to save Jared.

Trump would feed Jared into a woodchipper to save Trump.

But he will have to act to preserve those who could take him down with them.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:05 pm

Grifman wrote:Some of the Democratic questioning, in not allowing Sessions to finish, comes off as rude and badgering the witness. Ask your question and let me man answer. This isn't a criminal trial, and now isn't the time to showboat. My opinion.

I only listened to the first hour and a half, but the senators only get five minutes to ask their questions. Sessions was clearly stalling when answering relatively straight forward questions. In some cases not even answering the questions. I get that it looks like the Dems aren't letting him answer, but at the same time they can't let him just run the clock out.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:07 pm

Besides the lying there are some weird nuggets. Like before he recused himself he never asked for a briefing on Russian hacking in the election. Really?

Also the answer to Harris about how it is a shame that we don't get along since the USSR collapsed and all. That is a pretty weird comment considering the constant hacking that Comey and others described.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:15 pm

My impression from the first 90 minutes was that Sessions did a good job. The Republican Senators led him to answer questions that made him and the administration look good, and he successfully avoided answering any important questions from the Dems.

The one part that really stuck out to me is that during the opening statements Sessions said he cannot invoke Executive Privilege, that only the President can do that. He then proceeded to not answer several questions, stating that they were private conversations with the President. Uh... isn't that Executive Privilege? Finally one of the Democratic Senators called him on his bullshit, but Sessions insisted that it's a long standing Justice Department tradition.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:16 pm

malchior wrote:Besides the lying there are some weird nuggets. Like before he recused himself he never asked for a briefing on Russian hacking in the election. Really?

Also the answer to Harris about how it is a shame that we don't get along since the USSR collapsed and all. That is a pretty weird comment considering the constant hacking that Comey and others described.

It isn't weird at all; it's exactly what Trump wants to hear. Jeff is just trying to keep Dear Leader happy.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:31 pm

msteelers wrote:My impression from the first 90 minutes was that Sessions did a good job. The Republican Senators led him to answer questions that made him and the administration look good, and he successfully avoided answering any important questions from the Dems.

The one part that really stuck out to me is that during the opening statements Sessions said he cannot invoke Executive Privilege, that only the President can do that. He then proceeded to not answer several questions, stating that they were private conversations with the President. Uh... isn't that Executive Privilege? Finally one of the Democratic Senators called him on his bullshit, but Sessions insisted that it's a long standing Justice Department tradition.

I'm waiting with baited breath for him to produce those long standing JD rules he kept referring to. From all these people (Session, the NSA director et al. last week), it sounded to me like Trump invoked Executive Privilege and then told them to say he hasn't invoked Executive Privilege.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:32 pm

I heard someone reference Eric Holder doing the same thing that Sessions is doing, but I haven't had a chance to verify.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:53 pm

msteelers wrote:I heard someone reference Eric Holder doing the same thing that Sessions is doing, but I haven't had a chance to verify.

I will help.

Fast and Furious.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:57 pm

Washington Post opinion piece about some of the inconsistencies today.

Posner picked up interesting flaws in the recusal timeline to be sure.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:06 pm

Rip wrote:
msteelers wrote:I heard someone reference Eric Holder doing the same thing that Sessions is doing, but I haven't had a chance to verify.
I will help.

Fast and Furious.

You're confused, that was The Rock in that movie.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:31 pm

Rip wrote:
msteelers wrote:I heard someone reference Eric Holder doing the same thing that Sessions is doing, but I haven't had a chance to verify.
I will help.

Fast and Furious.

Thanks!

Looks like the House tried to hold Holder in contempt for not being forthcoming with the information, and was only spared when Obama asserted executive privilege.

So I guess the next step is to hold Sessions in contempt? I'm ok with that.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:34 pm

As for the Session commentary on the Executive Privilege issue. It's an interesting angle. He made the point that only the President can decide whether to invoke EP or not. We know that Trump did not invoke it. The argument that Sessions is making is that Trump hasn't yet decided. So if Sessions answers the question, that would in effect make Trump's decision for him. But Sessions can't make that decision for Trump, so he can't answer the question.

It's an entirely childish argument, but what are ya gonna do?

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:55 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:As for the Session commentary on the Executive Privilege issue. It's an interesting angle. He made the point that only the President can decide whether to invoke EP or not. We know that Trump did not invoke it. The argument that Sessions is making is that Trump hasn't yet decided. So if Sessions answers the question, that would in effect make Trump's decision for him. But Sessions can't make that decision for Trump, so he can't answer the question.

It's an entirely childish argument, but what are ya gonna do?

Call Sessions back and say that you expect answers unless Trump invokes privilege before the next meeting. At that time it will be put up or shut up.