Russia influences election

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon May 08, 2017 11:43 am

Smoove_B wrote:Of course he denied the 2014 statements this morning. I have to believe finding out where $100 million (or any amount) of investments came from would be easy.

When a Russian oligarch pays $100m for a $40m property, does that count as part of the trail? I mean, that was back in 2008, but it's a pretty tidy sum for 2 year's "nothing" from the time Trump snagged the property to the time he sold it ... Maybe the poor boy was thinking back to that $60m gain from 7 years before as an 'investment'

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue May 09, 2017 2:30 pm

Making the White House press pool great again.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue May 09, 2017 3:03 pm

Don't overlook the big picture.

The real story here is that animeright.news has been scooped by Alex Jones.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue May 09, 2017 5:33 pm

Paingod wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:Of course he denied the 2014 statements this morning. I have to believe finding out where $100 million (or any amount) of investments came from would be easy.
When a Russian oligarch pays $100m for a $40m property, does that count as part of the trail? I mean, that was back in 2008, but it's a pretty tidy sum for 2 year's "nothing" from the time Trump snagged the property to the time he sold it ... Maybe the poor boy was thinking back to that $60m gain from 7 years before as an 'investment'

Keith Obermann: Follow The Money

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed May 10, 2017 7:28 am

I like CNN's "Ties to Russia" page, where you can click on a Trump associate and see how they link back to Russia/Putin.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 10, 2017 12:34 pm

I wonder where the U.S. press pictures are of this?

It's weird to see him use the same enthusiastic smile and hand shake with the Russian ambassador that he did with Angela Merkel.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed May 10, 2017 12:35 pm

Smoove_B wrote:I wonder where the U.S. press pictures are of this?

That may be a rhetorical question by you, but in case it's not (and for the benefit of others), no U.S. press was allowed in for this.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 10, 2017 12:37 pm

El Guapo wrote:That may be a rhetorical question by you, but in case it's not (and for the benefit of others), no U.S. press was allowed in for this.

Weird, right?

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed May 10, 2017 1:35 pm

Not at all. And I'm sure that Rip will be along any minute with a completely rational explanation...

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed May 10, 2017 1:40 pm

TheMix wrote:Not at all. And I'm sure that Rip will be along any minute with a completely rational explanation...

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Wed May 10, 2017 1:43 pm

TheMix wrote:Not at all. And I'm sure that Rip will be along any minute with a completely rational explanation...

Hold on, let me take a crack at this.

They're discussing financial incentives to be delivered to Trump and/or his family members/golfing buddies in exchange for policy concessions.

No, wait, that's wrong, let me try again.

They're discussing an upcoming tea party.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed May 10, 2017 2:18 pm

NickAragua wrote:
TheMix wrote:Not at all. And I'm sure that Rip will be along any minute with a completely rational explanation...
Hold on, let me take a crack at this.

They're discussing financial incentives to be delivered to Trump and/or his family members/golfing buddies in exchange for policy concessions.

No, wait, that's wrong, let me try again.

They're discussing an upcoming tea party.

Polls are meaningless this early?

Really though, I don't think it's in this country's best interest to keep up this RvD charade. Fireball nailed it. To put his statement in to my own interpretation, we're likely headed for crisis and we have to rely on a republican Congress to avert it. For my experience, constantly attacking their constituency is only going to entrench them. It feels as though, in the end both sides would burn the baby to save their own righteousness.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 10, 2017 2:25 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
El Guapo wrote:That may be a rhetorical question by you, but in case it's not (and for the benefit of others), no Fake News was allowed in for this.
Weird, right?

Mortoned.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed May 10, 2017 2:26 pm

Lord Mortis wrote:we're likely headed for crisis

Headed for a crisis? We're IN a crisis and have been for quite a while. If our only hope is to rely on members of the GOP to break rank and start pushing against the grain? Yeah, I'll be curled up in a ball over there too, hoping I just die instead.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed May 10, 2017 2:44 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Lord Mortis wrote:we're likely headed for crisis
Headed for a crisis? We're IN a crisis and have been for quite a while. If our only hope is to rely on members of the GOP to break rank and start pushing against the grain? Yeah, I'll be curled up in a ball over there too, hoping I just die instead.

I don't think that's true. I don't even think tanking the health care of 24 million Americans will put us in crisis. (It'll suck ass but not put nation in crisis) but if allegation of the US becoming a puppet regime turn out to be founded and Congress ushers in the completion of our becoming a banana republic... Game over, man. Game over. That's a license for everything wrong moving forward. I resist to avert crisis.

Now if you want to localize crisis, then yeah. For example, the city of Flint, Mi has been in crisis for three fucking years and that's fucked up but the state and the nation keeps on keeping on.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:29 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
El Guapo wrote:That may be a rhetorical question by you, but in case it's not (and for the benefit of others), no U.S. press was allowed in for this.
Weird, right?

And just in case anyone missed, one of the people that Trump met with today was the Russian Ambassador Sergei Kislyak, whose interactions with Mike Flynn led to Flynn’s firing. I'm sure they have a perfectly good reason to bar the US press when Russian media was apparently allowed.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:55 pm

I believe I read that it wasn't "Russian media" but photographers who were part of the Russian staff. Their pics were then released to Russian media.

The effect is the same, but it's not quite the case that Russian reporters were present. (Likely there were no questions asked, for instance.)

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed May 10, 2017 4:57 pm

Holman wrote:I believe I read that it wasn't "Russian media" but photographers who were part of the Russian staff. Their pics were then released to Russian media.

The effect is the same, but it's not quite the case that Russian reporters were present. (Likely there were no questions asked, for instance.)

Also:

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 10, 2017 5:06 pm

Holman wrote:I believe I read that it wasn't "Russian media" but photographers who were part of the Russian staff. Their pics were then released to Russian media.

The effect is the same, but it's not quite the case that Russian reporters were present. (Likely there were no questions asked, for instance.)

Thanks much for the clarification, that makes sense I guess. Agreed on the effect.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed May 10, 2017 6:17 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Holman wrote:I believe I read that it wasn't "Russian media" but photographers who were part of the Russian staff. Their pics were then released to Russian media.

The effect is the same, but it's not quite the case that Russian reporters were present. (Likely there were no questions asked, for instance.)
Also:

Trump: Oooh, one of the Russians left this nice pen behind. Everything is coming up Trump!

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed May 10, 2017 7:50 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Lord Mortis wrote:we're likely headed for crisis
Headed for a crisis? We're IN a crisis and have been for quite a while. If our only hope is to rely on members of the GOP to break rank and start pushing against the grain? Yeah, I'll be curled up in a ball over there too, hoping I just die instead.

It will be alright Smoove. Just put all of your faith in Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. What could go wrong?

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:20 pm

Enough wrote:
Holman wrote:I believe I read that it wasn't "Russian media" but photographers who were part of the Russian staff. Their pics were then released to Russian media.

The effect is the same, but it's not quite the case that Russian reporters were present. (Likely there were no questions asked, for instance.)
Thanks much for the clarification, that makes sense I guess. Agreed on the effect.

As I understand it, the Russian photographer works for TASS.

Of course, we only know that thanks to photos from Russia's state news agency. Their photographer was the only one allowed in the meeting, while U.S. journalists were kept out.

That’s right. Although the encounter between Trump, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, and Ambassador Sergei Kislyak took place in the center of American power, it was TASS, the official Russian news agency, that had the pictures.

According to Andrei Sitov, the TASS bureau chief in Washington, the Russian photographer who took the photos covers Lavrov full time and came with him on the plane. He was presented to the White House as the official photographer.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:32 pm

Smoove_B wrote:I wonder where the U.S. press pictures are of this?

It's weird to see him use the same enthusiastic smile and hand shake with the Russian ambassador that he did with Angela Merkel.

Look at the human body reaction to things.

Try and find another picture of Trump with such a flush face.

Trump

Hamlet3145 · Post by **Hamlet3145** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:35 pm

In Like Flynn.

Senate Intelligence Panel Subpoenas Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

Holman wrote:I believe I read that it wasn't "Russian media" but photographers who were part of the Russian staff. Their pics were then released to Russian media.

The effect is the same, but it's not quite the case that Russian reporters were present. (Likely there were no questions asked, for instance.)

Not that a Russian reporter travelling to the White House in order to report on the meeting would have been what we come to think of as a reporter anyhow...

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed May 10, 2017 10:54 pm

https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/ ... 8822802432

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu May 11, 2017 12:49 am

Why do none of the Trump-Russia leaks come from Russia?

"Why does Russia never leak?" I asked the investigative journalist sitting opposite me in a dingy Moscow café.

He took gulp of espresso coffee, then after realizing I wasn't joking, he told me.

"Because they kill you, of course," he said.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu May 11, 2017 9:52 am

Putin insists on meeting Lavrov during phone call.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu May 11, 2017 9:54 am

Ya think?!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu May 11, 2017 9:56 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Ya think?!

Wait until you read the article I just edited in. It makes it all the more hilarious. The man is a fucking moron surrounded by fucking morons. I'm going to call it now (kiddingly) - this will be the worst administration ever. They can't stop tripping over their own feet.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu May 11, 2017 10:14 am

So wait, I don't get it, do the Russians want Trump to be president or not? You'd think making him look like a corrupt idiot would be counterproductive.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu May 11, 2017 10:18 am

NickAragua wrote:So wait, I don't get it, do the Russians want Trump to be president or not? You'd think making him look like a corrupt idiot would be counterproductive.

Only from our perspective. I'm sure Putin is happy to play this fiddle both ways as he wants to - one day we're a hostile force and he needs to manhandle us. Yay for Putin, savior of the motherland! The next day he's negotiating and working with us. Yay for Putin, protector of the motherland!

Life in Russia is very different from ours. When was the last time you were stopped by the police and expected to pay your fine right then and there to the cop, without a receipt?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu May 11, 2017 10:20 am

NickAragua wrote:So wait, I don't get it, do the Russians want Trump to be president or not? You'd think making him look like a corrupt idiot would be counterproductive.

It is my impression that "the Russians" want to tank the credibility of the US to the world and to its citizenry and Trump plays into their hands at every turn and Congress backs him. Our government, economy, and our way of life depend on our faith and global faith in our government and its symbiosis with the people of our country and our allies around the world. That symbiosis is eroding day by day. As to whether or not Trump is trying to destroy us by his own traitorous effort or he is patsy, I have no idea.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu May 11, 2017 10:27 am

The probable answer is that Trump is so damn easy to manipulate and is in so over his head. He is a fucking moron. Putin is not. It is like a cat playing with a mouse.

Putin has shown he takes calculated chances. Putin manipulated Trump into meeting Lavrov. That could have worked in Putin's favor just because of the optics of meeting the foreign minister while his circle is under investigation. However then Trump on a whim fires the head of the guy investigating that meddling the day before Lavrov shows up. Putin wins again! You can't make up this level of ineptitude.

*Of course, there is always the possibility that Trump is a super genius playing very, very, very dumb but his entire life pretty much discounts that.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Thu May 11, 2017 10:33 am

NickAragua wrote:So wait, I don't get it, do the Russians want Trump to be president or not? You'd think making him look like a corrupt idiot would be counterproductive.

My guess is that Russia mainly wants a weak and ineffectual US president. Being easy to manipulate is just a bonus.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu May 11, 2017 10:41 am

malchior wrote:

"Tricked" them? He's mugging for the camera!

Is the POTUS incapable of saying "No Cameras" to a foreign team visiting the Oval Office?

He certainly said it to the U.S. press.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:15 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
NickAragua wrote:So wait, I don't get it, do the Russians want Trump to be president or not? You'd think making him look like a corrupt idiot would be counterproductive.
My guess is that Russia mainly wants a weak and ineffectual US president. Being easy to manipulate is just a bonus.

Getting Trump elected made the US look silly. It also kept HRC from being elected which was likely Putin's primary objective. All this other fall out (how horribly bad Trump has been thus far, the potential end of American Democracy, etc.) is icing on a delicious cake for him.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:23 am

Remus West wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
NickAragua wrote:So wait, I don't get it, do the Russians want Trump to be president or not? You'd think making him look like a corrupt idiot would be counterproductive.
My guess is that Russia mainly wants a weak and ineffectual US president. Being easy to manipulate is just a bonus.
Getting Trump elected made the US look silly. It also kept HRC from being elected which was likely Putin's primary objective. All this other fall out (how horribly bad Trump has been thus far, the potential end of American Democracy, etc.) is icing on a delicious cake for him.

That's the *charitable* interpretation.

What investigations could reveal is a straight-up quid pro quo: help with the election in exchange for an end to sanctions and a freer hand for Russia to meddle elsewhere.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:47 am

Paingod wrote:
NickAragua wrote:So wait, I don't get it, do the Russians want Trump to be president or not? You'd think making him look like a corrupt idiot would be counterproductive.
Only from our perspective. I'm sure Putin is happy to play this fiddle both ways as he wants to - one day we're a hostile force and he needs to manhandle us. Yay for Putin, savior of the motherland! The next day he's negotiating and working with us. Yay for Putin, protector of the motherland!

Life in Russia is very different from ours. When was the last time you were stopped by the police and expected to pay your fine right then and there to the cop, without a receipt?

Trust me, I know, having emigrated from there. If you're trying to install a puppet as head of state though, it's generally best practice not to make the puppet look incompetent. Unless the state is next door and can be trivially steamrolled (like, for example, Chechnya), so that you can just send in the army to stomp everyone if things get too out of control.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:54 am

Puppetry is too hard. Weakness, disarray, and distrust of institutions serve just as well.