Russia influences election

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:29 am

Keep in mind he's only been President for 2 MONTHS. And we have more smoke billowing out of the White House than any scandal I can ever remember.

The wheels are coming off this wagon fast. And people think he'll actually be able to weather this for four more years? Keep dreaming. Republicans are currently in "grab what you can" mode, and will soon be scurrying away like rats off a sinking ship.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:36 am

Paingod wrote: I think these people want the government to take over their lives, remove personal responsibility, and turn "Republican" into a religion they can follow and force on others.

Until Trump's idiocy touches their wallets. Then the shit will hit the fan.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:38 am

hepcat wrote:No link to a news article only tangentially related to the discussion? You must be starting to realize just who you hitched your horse to. I can't wait to see how far back you can bend.

His ace in the hole is that "I never actually supported Trump."

Paingod wrote:I still found his heartening that the majority of voters didn't pick him, though. Of all his groups of voters - poor, disenfranchised, ignorant, hateful, Nazis, bigots, and/or staunch Republicans - he's probably still got backing from a majority of them even if he's discovered to be working for Russia. I think these people want the government to take over their lives, remove personal responsibility, and turn "Republican" into a religion they can follow and force on others.

I don't think it's safe or wise to lump his voters all together.

poor, disenfranchised, ignorant,

want the government to take over their lives, remove personal responsibility

This group is showing the exact opposite. They want to feel like they matter and are earning their way and they bought the lies and they are desperate enough to continue buying lies. There is a whole subset of voters that is not insignificant who both votes for Obama and for Trump. Somewhere, they have to see that punching a clock to perform a task of minimal skills is a thing of the past and they don't think they can keep up with a robots and digitization and they don't know where to turn, so going backwards sounds great to them as long as they can carve a piece of land to take care of.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:49 am

LordMortis wrote:I don't think it's safe or wise to lump his voters all together.

That's why I used the and/or in that list. I think all of his voters fall somewhere in that spectrum, many possibly in more than one category.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:54 am

YellowKing wrote:Republicans are currently in "grab what you can" mode, and will soon be scurrying away like rats off a sinking ship.

Yup, I've been saying it for months - it's quite clear the GOP is working to push their own agenda right now and hoping they can do so before they're no longer able to ignore the Russia connection. Hell, I even heard Senator Gardner from Colorado this morning say on my National Communist Radio that all of this is simply a way for Democrats to complain about Hillary not being elected. He said no one is debating Russian influence in our election but to think that they are the reason Hillary lost isn't going to get the Democrats anywhere. Because yes, that's exactly what this is about. People that are paying attention are totally claiming the big issue here is that Hillary lost.

Regardless, I still fully believe that the outcome of today's healthcare vote is going to set the trajectory. If it passes and makes it to the Senate, the GOP as a party will continue to deflect. If the vote fails, I fully expect them to start scurrying around as the Trump administration is put into the spotlight over Russia.

The idea that we're talking about anything else right now is astounding and for elected officials to be pushing national level-legislation of this magnitude while the FBI is investigating connections that a sitting President has to Russia is absolutely mind-blowing.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:04 am

Ornstein and Mann never looked more prescient than they do today. I see Ornstein on my Twitter feed nearly every day excorciating the Republicans and he is the one who works at the AEI.

Still I don't think anyone could have predicted the circumstances of this particular crack up. That a good majority of Republicans would ignore the Russia connections early on was unimaginable. Now that the FBI has said they are investigating and the events of yesterday with Nunes - it is downright scary. Something is deeply, deeply wrong. David Frum remarked this morning that this is looking like the equivalent of when Buchanan ignored the takeover of Federal Armories in the South just prior to the Civil War. I think that is an apt comparison.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:08 am

McCain has endorsed a select committee to investigate the Russia matter. Potentially significant, as partisan control over the Russia investigations is a major, major bulwark for Trump on this. Question is whether anything comes of this (and whether at least a couple other Senate Republicans are on board).

Also I'm thinking that Nunes may have done Trump a major disservice with his wiretap discussions yesterday. Badly and publicly undermined his credibility for just one talking point, and gave people who want a serious investigation a huge argument.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:19 am

But it did result in my new favorite nickname for a politician: The Trump Whisperer

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:08 pm

In latest news - Nunes might have made the whole fucking thing up. SPECIAL PROSECUTOR NOW.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:28 pm

malchior wrote:In latest news - Nunes might have made the whole fucking thing up. SPECIAL PROSECUTOR NOW.

That would be a new level of incredible.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:25 am

When the President can craft his own reality and seemingly get away with it, is it really so far-fetched to think other politicians might try it too?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:28 am

For your reading pleasure, please enjoy a nice little summary from The New Yorker:

What are we to make of these reports? On social media, many people are declaring that Trump is about to be impeached. That is wishful thinking. On Monday, Comey only confirmed the existence of an F.B.I. investigation—he gave no indication of how the investigation is going. In Congress, meanwhile, there isn’t enough Republican support to set up a special committee to investigate the President’s ties to Russia, let alone to appoint an independent prosecutor or launch impeachment proceedings.

And, despite Comey’s testimony, many Republicans, including Devin Nunes, the head of the House Intelligence Committee, are still determined to change the subject from Russia and the Trump campaign to unauthorized leaks or alleged government surveillance of Trump and his aides—or anything else that doesn’t involve the spectre of Americans conspiring with agents of Vlad the Bad to influence last year’s election. The latest development in this diversionary campaign was Nunes’s visit to the White House on Wednesday, where he claimed that “the intelligence community incidentally collected information about U.S. citizens involved in the Trump transition.”

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:14 am

At least they have made us understand the chants of "lock her up" since I now want to lock all their asses up in federal pound you in the ass prison.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:02 am

Weird, not only do incriminating documents about the center right French Presidential candidate get leaked somehow, but now Marine Le Pen has a meeting with Putin and is suddenly for rolling back the Russian sanctions. It's almost like the Russians are trying to influence an election by selectively leaking information and supporting an ultra right candidate!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39375969

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:16 pm

He might (and hopefully will) be very busy with ongoing investigations, but... has anyone floated "Schiff 2020" yet?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:20 pm

Keep at it, Nunes:

The ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff, claims its Republican chairman has cancelled an open hearing into Russia's involvement in the 2016 election.

Adam Schiff tweeted that Devin Nunes had "cancelled open Intelligence Committee hearing with Clapper, Brennan and Yates in attempt to choke off public info", referring to former Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates, Director of the CIA John Brennan, and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, all former Obama administration officials.

In a separate development, Donald Trump’s former campaign chair Paul Manafort has voluntarily agreed to be questioned by the committee regarding alleged ties to Moscow, according to Representative Nunes.

Speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill, Mr Nunes said that Mr Manafort will be questioned by the committee but would not say whether the session would be open or closed.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:32 pm

Speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill, Mr Nunes said that Mr Manafort will be questioned by the committee but would not say whether the session would be open or closed.

Closed or not at all.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:46 pm

Nunes is trying to outdo Ryan for biggest fucktard on the hill.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:52 pm

malchior wrote:
Speaking to reporters on Capitol Hill, Mr Nunes said that Mr Manafort will be questioned by the committee but would not say whether the session would be open or closed.
Closed or not at all.

I'm confused. What does Manafort have to say that shouldn't be in a public hearing? Is he going to discuss classified information? If so, why does this man (who does not have a security clearance or government position) have information that must be protected from the public? If it si closed, that is seriously something to get upset about.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:53 pm

It will likely be a long hearing. I'm sure they'll get hungry. Let's try to get a microwave in the room.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:55 pm

Manafort, Page, and even Roger Stone are now claiming they want to talk to the Intelligence Committee. There are thoughts that Flynn has already begun to spill to the FBI.

These traitors realize that they're going to spend decades in prison. Now it's just about begging a decent cell.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:59 pm

It'll be closed because Nunes doesn't want to embarrass the President with another open hearing on tv. That is the number one priority.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Holman wrote:There are thoughts that Flynn has already begun to spill to the FBI.

That would explain the hit piece that the National Enquirer just put out on Flynn, identifying him as a Russian spy in the White House.

Andrew Wonser · Post by **Andrew Wonser** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:45 pm

That's one thing I've been keeping an eye on (Inquirer and Globe) every time a new issue comes out. I think when we can expect something major to happen is when you see something that is more than the usual conservative conspiracy click bait.

I think in another time the Russia/President angle would have been like manna from heaven for these guys. But these days they figured out that, for whatever reason, there are a large number of Republican crazies that eat this stuff up versus their Democrat counterparts.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:36 pm

Andrew Wonser wrote:
I think in another time the Russia/President angle would have been like manna from heaven for these guys. But these days they figured out that, for whatever reason, there are a large number of Republican crazies that eat this stuff up versus their Democrat counterparts.

Well, the National Enquirer is owned by Rupert Murdoch and was all-in on Trump even during the primaries.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:52 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:Well, the National Enquirer is owned by Rupert Murdoch

No, it isn't.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:56 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -in-moscow

Putin told Le Pen Russia had no intention of meddling in the French presidential elections,

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:09 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:Well, the National Enquirer is owned by Rupert Murdoch
No, it isn't.

David Pecker, CEO

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:20 pm

Oops - my bad! Must have misremembered!

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:45 am

Rep. Adam Schiff, ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, is now calling for an independent commission (rather than that committee) to investigate Trump/Russia.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:38 pm

Andrew Wonser wrote:That's one thing I've been keeping an eye on (Inquirer and Globe) every time a new issue comes out. I think when we can expect something major to happen is when you see something that is more than the usual conservative conspiracy click bait.

I think in another time the Russia/President angle would have been like manna from heaven for these guys. But these days they figured out that, for whatever reason, there are a large number of Republican crazies that eat this stuff up versus their Democrat counterparts.

Well, the Inquirer owner is a buddy and fan of Trump. It was one of the few "newspapers" to actually endorse Trump.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:58 pm

In the last hour I've seen two interesting tweets. One is that it is believed that Flynn has struck a deal with the FBI. The other was a note that WH officials are purging their phones out of fear of subpoenas. Sounds totally normal.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:48 pm

If it was on twitter it must be true.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:52 pm

Schiff's remarks at the Brookings Institution on the Russia crisis and DC dysfunction.

Finally, no active measures campaign will succeed against a government whose citizens believe that it is serving their interests and discharging its duties honestly. Russia succeeds where there is mistrust and a lack of confidence in government and in other national institutions. That is the case in this country at the moment, and I am reminded almost daily that I am a member of an institution with an approval rating in the low single, maybe the low double digits. The American people see us as ineffective, corrupt, or both and they desperately want us to work together to solve the nation’s problems. When we repeatedly fail to pass appropriations bills; when nominees for senior government posts languish for years in the Senate; or when simple debt extension votes become an occasion for political hostage-taking, we are doing Putin’s work for him and preparing the ground for his next attack.

We may be in an era when neither party can afford to give an inch, but at some point both Republicans and Democrats are going to have to re-learn the art of compromise and to redefine “victory” if the American experiment is to flourish and if we are to beat back the challenge of nativism and foreign attacks on liberal democracies. For nearly three decades now, the old ways of consensus and cooperation have been eclipsed by a 24/7 brawl in which truth is the first casualty and all of us lose. That has to stop, for all of our sakes.

[...]

Liberty and democracy are not our birthright to be taken for granted. The United States of America is not exempt from the siren song of authoritarianism, nor are we invulnerable to the machinations of others. Our democracy has been paid for with blood, and it must be nurtured and treated with reverence. In some respects, our commitment to popular sovereignty is a point of vulnerability, but it is also our greatest strength. If Putin and other undemocratic leaders around the world were not so fearful of the appeal of liberal democracy, they would not seek to weaken it. Now that we know the enemy within our midst, it is up to us to rise to the challenge.

Long but worth reading.

I look forward to voting for Schiff as part of the national ticket some day.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:58 pm

hehe

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:20 pm

Bring a billionaire didn't keep Trump off the auction block when Russia bought him.

Rip wrote:If it was on twitter it must be true.

It's too early for polls.

...wait...what?

Freyland · Post by **Freyland** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:22 pm

em2nought wrote:hehe

Question, please. Why "hehe"?

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:34 pm

Freyland wrote:
em2nought wrote:hehe

Question, please. Why "hehe"?

Nervous giggle? I'm not sure what the proper reaction is to possibly pissing away $60 billion dollars? oops math was off for what I thought was an even better point. duh

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:53 pm

Because most people are smart enough to realize that countering Russian election interference is likely a very small part of what our intelligence agencies actually attempt to do? And that $60BB wasn't directed solely at that effort?

Just a guess...

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:41 pm

Rip wrote:If it was on twitter it must be true.

Hey, it works that way for Trump, amirite?

Just a little sample of the stuff that dreams are made of...

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status ... 8018302977

(THREAD) BREAKING: Harvard professor and @CNN political analyst Juliette Kayyem says, per sources, Michael Flynn may have flipped on Trump.
(1) First, as an attorney I want to make clear that, if this @CNN analyst's sources are correct, the #Russiagate scandal is blown wide open.
(2) The FBI flips witnesses, turning them into cooperating individuals, _only_ when they can help secure conviction of a bigger "target."
(3) Michael Flynn was the National Security Adviser for the President of the United States. The only _bigger_ target is Donald J. Trump.
(4) But Flynn also held a clandestine meeting with Russian ambassador/spy Sergey Kislyak and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner in December '16.
(5) And Flynn coordinated with infamous Iran-Contra figure and Russian oil/gas pipeline advocate Bud McFarlane in hiring Trump's Deputy NSA.
(6) And of course Flynn had the highest possible clearance and greatest possible access to POTUS in discussing matters of national security.
(7) Flynn's hire as NSA was controversial--even suspicious--when it was made due to Flynn's absolutely _terrible_ reputation in Washington.
(8) This suggests the hire wasn't based on merit, but rather the fact that Flynn is _known_ to have ties (in-person ties) to Vladimir Putin.
(9) We should conclude from the foregoing that Flynn was in the best position of _anyone_ involved in #Russiagate to see _all_ its contours.
(10) Given all of the above, we can say that if any one person could bring down Trump due to #Russiagate, it's the man the FBI may now have.

It's a fun story, but I don't know that it goes anywhere. Time will tell.