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Russia influences election

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GreenGoo
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:19 pm

"I wish my side could get away with stuff too" is not a principled political viewpoint.

I'm shocked by this provocateur. Shocked, I tell you.

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Rip » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:26 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:19 pm
"I wish my side could get away with stuff too" is not a principled political viewpoint.

I'm shocked by this provocateur. Shocked, I tell you.
Perhaps but more realistic than saying I wish neither side could get away with it because history says that ain't happening.
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by em2nought » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:38 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:19 pm
"I wish my side could get away with stuff too" is not a principled political viewpoint.

I'm shocked by this provocateur. Shocked, I tell you.
I love that scene :mrgreen:
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Freyland » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:49 pm

I have the Trolls on ignore, so I don't know what diarrhea they are spewing, but seeing them post back to back in quick succession right now reminds me a lot of Trump Twitter spasms when something bad comes up.
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by ImLawBoy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:51 pm

And once again, I'd like to remind people not to advertise who they have blocked. Just ignore them and move on from it.
We had subs. It was crazy

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:08 pm

Shocked, I tells ya.

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by hepcat » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:08 pm

em2nought wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:02 pm
The fake news
Don't you mean "alternative facts", Kellyanne?

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by YellowKing » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:42 pm

I don't know, I think it's kind of fun to watch the constant backpedaling and excuses every time a new bombshell drops.

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Smoove_B » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:01 pm

It's amazing to me that there's indisputable evidence now that Russia (1) meddled and (2) continues to meddle in our electoral process, but I guess because no one is dead or there isn't a destroyed building (or boat underwater), that doesn't count as an "attack" in the minds of some? I just happened to catch Colbert last night and Jake Tapper was on. He was completely flummoxed at the idea that there are elected officials taking action against members of our intelligence / investigative community while they're trying to figure out the breadth and scope of the attacks. Maybe I'm just bad at remembering history, but did elected officials try to stop investigations into what happened at Pearl Harbor? Battle of Attu? 9/11/01?

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:07 pm

Well, here's another bombshell regarding the Trump Tower meeting:
The Moscow operation behind the now-infamous Russian-Trump Tower meeting in June 2016 included a direct attempt to enlist a foreign country’s law-enforcement official as a virtual double-agent, according to a court case in Switzerland.

One of Switzerland’s top investigators has been fired after allegations of bribery, violating secrecy laws, and “unauthorized clandestine behavior” in meeting with the very same Russian actors linked to the Trump Tower encounter.

Details of the explosive case have been published by investigative reporters for the Tribune de Genève and Tages-Anzeiger newspapers in Switzerland. The officer, identified only as Victor K., traveled to Moscow—against the expressed wishes of his superiors—where he spoke to Natalia Veselnitskaya, the lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort, and Jared Kushner at Trump Tower.

The meeting was reportedly set up by Russian Deputy Attorney General Saak Albertovich Karapetyan—from the same rogue department that was apparently responsible for offering intel on Hillary Clinton to be shared at the Trump Tower meeting and the Kremlin’s further plots to influence U.S. politics
.
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Holman » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:26 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:01 pm
It's amazing to me that there's indisputable evidence now that Russia (1) meddled and (2) continues to meddle in our electoral process, but I guess because no one is dead or there isn't a destroyed building (or boat underwater), that doesn't count as an "attack" in the minds of some? I just happened to catch Colbert last night and Jake Tapper was on. He was completely flummoxed at the idea that there are elected officials taking action against members of our intelligence / investigative community while they're trying to figure out the breadth and scope of the attacks. Maybe I'm just bad at remembering history, but did elected officials try to stop investigations into what happened at Pearl Harbor? Battle of Attu? 9/11/01?
What's amazing is that the Mueller investigation isn't really even the equivalent of the 9/11 investigations or others.

Mueller is aimed at uncovering what happened and who may have committed crimes, but it is not equipped to actually look into vulnerabilities in our system and to try to protect future elections.

As far as I know, there is really no such special effort underway even now, and the protections that were already in place pre-2016 are being underfunded or plod along with major posts unfilled. I don't believe there's a major Congressional inquiry specifically aimed at thwarting future attacks.

Meanwhile, the attacks actually never stopped.
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:36 pm

Want more? Here you go:
In September 2017, the Department of Homeland Security notified 21 state election organizations that Russia had targeted their election systems before the 2016 election. Then they said 39. Then they said 50.

The New York Times report said that being targeted did not mean that “sensitive voter data was manipulated or that results were changed,” adding: “A hacker targeting a system without getting inside is similar to a burglar circling a house, checking for unlocked doors and windows.”

We were left knowing that Russia attempted to break into almost half of America’s voter databases, but the DHS assured the public that they had no evidence that any of the systems were actually compromised...

...That was a lie.

When Bradley Moss, a cybersecurity lawyer, won a freedom of information suit against the U.S. government for data on the Russian hacks, the documents revealed that Russia actually got inside the voting systems of seven states, including 4 of the 5 largest states in terms of electoral votes—California (55) Texas (38) Florida (29) and Illinois (20).

U.S. intelligence officials disputed the claim at first. But days later, on Feb. 18, DHS acknowledged that seven states were actually breached, and Homeland Security didn’t inform the individual states until eight months after the election, according to NBC...

...Yet, in recanting its initial lie, a statement from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said the intelligence community’s assessment “found that Russian actors did not compromise vote-tallying systems. That assessment has not changed.”

Those states have vehemently denied that any votes were changed in the 2016 elections. Then again most of the states had no idea their systems had been penetrated until they were specifically told.

In fact, 6 of the 7 states still deny that their systems were ever breached.

But we know, without a shadow of a doubt, that these systems were targeted and breached. We know that Russian actors got inside. We know the DHS withheld information about this for nearly a year—not only from the public but from the individual states. Illinois admits that hackers unsuccessfully attempted to alter and delete voters rolls but the intruders were unsuccessful, partly because the state has a decentralized system.

But what if there was a state who, unlike Illinois, had voter data, voting-machine information and election rolls on one central computer?...

...Aside from circumstantial evidence, it is impossible to know if ballots cast by Georgia voters were changed because the state does not require a post-election audit. Even if it did, an audit might not be possible because the state does not require voting machines to have paper ballots...

...The only logical explanation that could possibly explain why Russians did not change votes in Georgia is to somehow believe an international cabal of hackers got into the system, found instructions, voter registrations and passwords to voting machines and yet somehow decided not to do it, just because.

Marks says Georgia’s systems would have been an “ideal” target for Russian hackers because the state doesn’t use a system with a paper trail so there is no way to audit the system. Of course, a diligent eye could have inspected Georgia’s system or compared the saved backups with the hacked server.

But when Marks’ organization sued for data to see whether or not the state’s elections systems had been penetrated, Kennesaw State University, the college that houses the Center for Election Systems, wiped the servers clean.

Then they wiped the servers’ backups clean.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Holman » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:52 pm



link
19 months into his presidency, there is no coherent Trump admin strategy to combat foreign election interference — and no single person or agency in charge, current and former officials tell NBC News.
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Sepiche » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:16 pm

Not to say there shouldn't be a robust effort to secure our elections going on now, but remember we're not completely defenseless.

NSA and Cyber Command haven't been given the authorization to go on the offensive, but during their testimony to congress not long ago Admiral Rogers said the NSA is currently doing everything within their mandate to protect us... even if Drumpf and the Republicans are happy to have the help from Russia.

They've all but said they just need the authorization from the WH and they could shut down the servers the Russians are using to launch these attacks. The fact they haven't been given that order is telling.

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:19 pm

Linky?
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Sepiche » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:05 am

Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:19 pm
Linky?
I think this covers the highlights. Whole hearing was interesting and is here.
US Cyber Command chief Adm. Mike Rogers told lawmakers on Tuesday that he has not been granted the authority by President Donald Trump to disrupt Russian election hacking operations where they originate.

Asked by Democratic Sen. Jack Reed if he has been directed by the President, through the defense secretary, to confront Russian cyber operators at the source, Rogers said "no I have not" but noted that he has tried to work within the authority he maintains as a commander.

While he did not agree with Reed's characterization that the US has been "sitting back and waiting," Rogers admitted that it is fair to say that "we have not opted to engage in some of the same behaviors we are seeing" with regards to Russia.
"It has not changed the calculus or the behavior on behalf of the Russians," Rogers said about the US response to Russia's cyber threat to date.
"They have not paid a price that is sufficient to change their behavior," he added.

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Kurth » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:41 am

The NYT ran an article this morning, ”Facebook Grapples With a Maturing Adversary in Election Meddling”. After reading it, I continue to struggle with how I feel about Russia (and possibly other foreign actors) trying to exert influence over social media. Obviously, it’s an issue — and I’m separating this out entirely from Trump collusion — but it’s hard for me to get all that worked up about it. I feel bad saying this and maybe it’s just out of ignorance of the details of the Russian influence campaign, but a big part of me feels like if we’re stupid enough to fall for this stuff, maybe we deserve it.

The NYT article stated:
A side effect of the disinformation campaigns is that they make social media as a whole seem inherently untrustworthy, and give fodder to those who want to cast doubt on the legitimacy of authentic movements. Already, some partisans have adopted the tactic of sowing doubt about internet-based movements by painting their opponents as Russian trolls or agents of a foreign-influence campaign.
Come again? Social media as a whole IS inherently untrustworthy!

In the end, I t’s not like the Russians are trying to destabilize us by inserting illegal drugs or weapons into our society. They’re not committing industrial espionage or sabotage on a grand scale. They’re pushing ideas. Stupid, stupid ideas. Ideas that are easily debunked with 30 seconds of Googling. Ideas that more often than not should only be attractive to fringe elements, but instead are being reposted and shared and linked by tons of people. Who’s fault is that? I definitely blame the Russians, but I think I’m more upset about our own complicity in this.
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by El Guapo » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:48 am

Kurth wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:41 am
The NYT ran an article this morning, ”Facebook Grapples With a Maturing Adversary in Election Meddling”. After reading it, I continue to struggle with how I feel about Russia (and possibly other foreign actors) trying to exert influence over social media. Obviously, it’s an issue — and I’m separating this out entirely from Trump collusion — but it’s hard for me to get all that worked up about it. I feel bad saying this and maybe it’s just out of ignorance of the details of the Russian influence campaign, but a big part of me feels like if we’re stupid enough to fall for this stuff, maybe we deserve it.

The NYT article stated:
A side effect of the disinformation campaigns is that they make social media as a whole seem inherently untrustworthy, and give fodder to those who want to cast doubt on the legitimacy of authentic movements. Already, some partisans have adopted the tactic of sowing doubt about internet-based movements by painting their opponents as Russian trolls or agents of a foreign-influence campaign.
Come again? Social media as a whole IS inherently untrustworthy!

In the end, I t’s not like the Russians are trying to destabilize us by inserting illegal drugs or weapons into our society. They’re not committing industrial espionage or sabotage on a grand scale. They’re pushing ideas. Stupid, stupid ideas. Ideas that are easily debunked with 30 seconds of Googling. Ideas that more often than not should only be attractive to fringe elements, but instead are being reposted and shared and linked by tons of people. Who’s fault is that? I definitely blame the Russians, but I think I’m more upset about our own complicity in this.
I basically agree that the social media aspect of Russia's election meddling is more of a sideshow. It's improper and icky, and it probably violated various campaign laws, but it's not the heart of the issue. The bigger issues are: (1) Russia hacking campaign e-mails (and state election databases) to meddle, with the likely complicity of the Trump campaign (and probably others in the GOP; (2) Russia directing foreign funds into the U.S. to support the GOP; (3) the Trump campaign's willingness to aid and abet all of this (including the social media work).

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by malchior » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:36 am

Kurth wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:41 am
In the end, I t’s not like the Russians are trying to destabilize us by inserting illegal drugs or weapons into our society. They’re not committing industrial espionage or sabotage on a grand scale. They’re pushing ideas. Stupid, stupid ideas. Ideas that are easily debunked with 30 seconds of Googling. Ideas that more often than not should only be attractive to fringe elements, but instead are being reposted and shared and linked by tons of people. Who’s fault is that? I definitely blame the Russians, but I think I’m more upset about our own complicity in this.
I see it as the nation-state equivalent of next-generation information warfare. They identified fault lines and attacked our processes to get a result that suited them. That we were susceptible to them doesn't make what they did alright. Much like whispering, "Jump!" into a suicidal person's ear is not OK. That said I agree with the above that the social media aspect is a bit of a sideshow. It had an effect but the emails were the main story. That too is a bit our fault as well. Large portions of the media was willing to play along with it and many people were perfectly fine with that as long as it suited their purposes. And again that we had culpability does not make it alright.

Also I believe it matters that no part of this campaign was likely separate. They intentionally and carefully exploited multiple fronts in a coordinated way to get their proxy installed. And he is wreaking havoc on our nation. It was an act of war and our President is continuing to let it happen because it suits him. It is very depressing when you look at it all in context.

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Holman » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:33 pm

One depressing fact that comes out of this is that more Americans get their news from Facebook than from cable news.

Russia's fake stories and propaganda via Facebook reached a wider audience than if they had somehow been able to insert their own scripted, Moscow-produced segments on CNN or NBC.
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Smoove_B » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:38 pm

Holman wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:33 pm
One depressing fact that comes out of this is that more Americans get their news from Facebook than from cable news.
That's part of it. We've been seeing something similar for the last 10+ years in public health as well, more specifically with autism and vaccinations. Essentially what we've learned is that people are more likely to believe/trust information from a random person on a blog or Youtube than information shared by the CDC or a state health agency. What I don't know is whether or not its simply people not trusting authority figures and/or people are more likely to trust/believe what they themselves are already predisposed to believe. Probably a bit of both.

Either way, it doesn't surprise me at all that the Trump administration has been hammering away at the media, undermining them and calling their credibility into question. It's exactly the same thing people like Jenny McCarthy and groups like Generation Rescue did (do).

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by El Guapo » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:09 pm

Holman wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:33 pm
One depressing fact that comes out of this is that more Americans get their news from Facebook than from cable news.

Russia's fake stories and propaganda via Facebook reached a wider audience than if they had somehow been able to insert their own scripted, Moscow-produced segments on CNN or NBC.
Have you watched cable news lately? Not totally sure that that's a downgrade.

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by LordMortis » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:22 pm

From where I sit, American's don't get their news from FB, they parrot screen captures of unsourced factoids on FB and use this sort of confirmation bias as if it is some sort of staying informed. I sincerely doubt most FB readers read much more than headlines from socially shared news sites (unless it gives them a chance to read "see, that's what I've been saying" in a few short paragraphs. Even then, their news is invariably an OpEd piece and not any sort of reporting.

I can only hope that says more about where I sit, than it does Americans, but I'm inclined to doubt it.

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by LordMortis » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:34 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:38 pm
It's exactly the same thing people like Jenny McCarthy....
What do kids these days say when it's it like ten years ago?

Truthbomb!

Now I have an urge to post Jenny McCarthy pictures every time someone posts GOP propaganda in the name the 45th administration.

Edit from the archives...

Mar 30, 2013 05:00:23 PM "@KimStagliano: @realDonaldTrump When will NYT write about vaccine damage and its price? 3 girls w autism here, Mr. Trump." They should Kim! [Twitter for Android]
Mar 30, 2013 04:24:46 AM @gramma421 Not recent, long term support for the autism community. [Twitter for Android]
Mar 30, 2013 12:28:23 AM "@violaC72: @realDonaldTrump sir, the autism community thanks you for your support!! #autismspeaks" [Twitter for Android]
Mar 30, 2013 12:22:12 AM "@RocRx: RT @realDonaldTrump Everybody should contribute & fight in the long haul battle against autism. @autismspeaks" GREAT! [Twitter for Android]
Mar 29, 2013 10:13:18 AM Everybody should contribute & fight in the long haul battle against autism. @autismspeaks [Twitter Web Client]
Mar 29, 2013 08:02:15 AM Please help @autismspeaks with their petition to the White House for a national strategy for the autism epidemic http://t.co/wfD6wmF1uF [Twitter Web Client]
Mar 13, 2013 09:43:20 AM Help fight autism--go to http://t.co/QLmCf48aWb, website for http://t.co/MQeWJcNir3, donations & government activation. [Twitter Web Client]
Mar 13, 2013 09:42:34 AM Autism Speaks, head up by Bob & Suzanne Wright, does a fantastic job—if only we had more people like them! To help: http://t.co/QLmCf48aWb [Twitter Web Client]
Oct 22, 2012 11:19:32 AM Autism rates through the roof--why doesn't the Obama administration do something about doctor-inflicted autism. We lose nothing to try. [Twitter Web Client]
Oct 22, 2012 11:10:49 AM Lots of autism and vaccine response. Stop these massive doses immediately. Go back to single, spread out shots! What do we have to lose. [Twitter Web Client]
Aug 27, 2012 03:59:32 PM Look what happened to the autism rate from 1983-2008 since one-time massive shots were given to children-http://t.co/lpq2SveJ [Twitter Web Client]
Aug 23, 2012 02:22:09 PM Massive combined inoculations to small children is the cause for big increase in autism.... [Twitter Web Client]
Apr 13, 2012 11:00:02 AM Many many people are thanking me for what I said about @autism & vaccinations. Something must be done immediately. [Twitter Web Client]
Apr 12, 2012 12:08:40 PM I’ve gotten many letters from people fighting autism thanking me for stating how dangerous 38 vaccines on a (cont) http://t.co/Qkn0rHBY [TwitLonger Beta]
Apr 9, 2012 04:12:24 PM Now they say obese women may cause Autism in children- nonsense, they use any excuse. The FDA should immediately (cont) http://t.co/ZtaDb6dh [TwitLonger Beta]
Mar 30, 2012 09:25:53 AM A study says @Autism is out of control--a 78% increase in 10 years. Stop giving monstrous combined vaccinations (cont) http://t.co/jthy8mww [TwitLonger Beta]

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Kurth » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:19 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:09 pm
Holman wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:33 pm
One depressing fact that comes out of this is that more Americans get their news from Facebook than from cable news.

Russia's fake stories and propaganda via Facebook reached a wider audience than if they had somehow been able to insert their own scripted, Moscow-produced segments on CNN or NBC.
Have you watched cable news lately? Not totally sure that that's a downgrade.
Agreed. Feeling especially masochistic last night, I spent 15 minutes flipping back and forth between Tucker Carlson on Fox delivering a monologue about how the Mueller investigation and the Manafort trial are just political hit jobs and Anderson Cooper on CNN delivering a monologue about how Trump's tweet telling Sessions to stop the Mueller investigation is clear obstructionism.

That's all we get from cable news these days. Opinions from opinionated people speaking to audiences that share their opinions. That's not news. Not even close.

Does anyone watch network (ABC, CBS, NBC) news these days? Are they any better?
The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it -- John Gilmore

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Azza » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:18 pm

Kurth wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:19 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:09 pm
Holman wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:33 pm
One depressing fact that comes out of this is that more Americans get their news from Facebook than from cable news.

Russia's fake stories and propaganda via Facebook reached a wider audience than if they had somehow been able to insert their own scripted, Moscow-produced segments on CNN or NBC.
Have you watched cable news lately? Not totally sure that that's a downgrade.
Agreed. Feeling especially masochistic last night, I spent 15 minutes flipping back and forth between Tucker Carlson on Fox delivering a monologue about how the Mueller investigation and the Manafort trial are just political hit jobs and Anderson Cooper on CNN delivering a monologue about how Trump's tweet telling Sessions to stop the Mueller investigation is clear obstructionism.

That's all we get from cable news these days. Opinions from opinionated people speaking to audiences that share their opinions. That's not news. Not even close.

Does anyone watch network (ABC, CBS, NBC) news these days? Are they any better?
CNN as a whole is awful and helped empower Trump through their election coverage just like nearly every other ratings chasing outlet. That said, why are you equating Cooper to Tucker Carlson? One of them is spreading propaganda and the other is making an observation that is more or less factual. Is Trump not attempting to obstruct by telling his recused AG to interfere in an investigation? And if he is (and he is), why is there an problem with Anderson Cooper accurately stating as much? I do not see how this is a "both sides" issue.
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Kurth » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:51 pm

Azza wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:18 pm
Kurth wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:19 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:09 pm
Holman wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:33 pm
One depressing fact that comes out of this is that more Americans get their news from Facebook than from cable news.

Russia's fake stories and propaganda via Facebook reached a wider audience than if they had somehow been able to insert their own scripted, Moscow-produced segments on CNN or NBC.
Have you watched cable news lately? Not totally sure that that's a downgrade.
Agreed. Feeling especially masochistic last night, I spent 15 minutes flipping back and forth between Tucker Carlson on Fox delivering a monologue about how the Mueller investigation and the Manafort trial are just political hit jobs and Anderson Cooper on CNN delivering a monologue about how Trump's tweet telling Sessions to stop the Mueller investigation is clear obstructionism.

That's all we get from cable news these days. Opinions from opinionated people speaking to audiences that share their opinions. That's not news. Not even close.

Does anyone watch network (ABC, CBS, NBC) news these days? Are they any better?
CNN as a whole is awful and helped empower Trump through their election coverage just like nearly every other ratings chasing outlet. That said, why are you equating Cooper to Tucker Carlson? One of them is spreading propaganda and the other is making an observation that is more or less factual. Is Trump not attempting to obstruct by telling his recused AG to interfere in an investigation? And if he is (and he is), why is there an problem with Anderson Cooper accurately stating as much? I do not see how this is a "both sides" issue.
There are incredible differences between Anderson Cooper and Tucker Carlson. I respect (and like) Cooper and generally agree with his point of view on most things. Carlson is a dishonest sellout. He’s far too intelligent to believe the crap that comes out of his mouth, so he’s purposefully misleading his audience. So, differences.

But during the segments I watched, they were largely doing the same thing. Providing opinions to their audience (and yes, characterizing Trump’s tweets as “obstruction” is most certainly an opinion). I just happen to agree with Cooper’s opinions.

And there’s nothing wrong with providing opinions: Editorials are not new and are not bad in and of themselves. But when there’s a blurring between what’s editorial and what’s news, and when there’s no clear delineation between the people giving editorials and those providing news, it’s a big problem.
The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it -- John Gilmore

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Ralph-Wiggum
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:20 pm

Kurth wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:51 pm
Carlson is a dishonest sellout. He’s far too intelligent to believe the crap that comes out of his mouth...
Are we sure about that?

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Kraken
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Kraken » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:49 pm

I don't watch TV news so I can't speak to that, but as far as web stories go, CNN is about as click-baity as a legit organization can get -- so much so that I've almost stopped clicking on their links. Their actual reporting is usually still solid -- they are not "fake news" -- but their sensationalism makes me feel unclean and plays into Trump's narrative.

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El Guapo
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by El Guapo » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:05 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:20 pm
Kurth wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:51 pm
Carlson is a dishonest sellout. He’s far too intelligent to believe the crap that comes out of his mouth...
Are we sure about that?
Yeah, I think so. Bill Kristol's written a bit on Carlson; Carlson used to work at the Weekly Standard. Kristol's written about what a sharp, honest reporter Carlson was at the time. I think he's just been undone by 80% ambition, 20% believing his own shit.

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Pyperkub
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:34 am

El Guapo wrote:
Holman wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:33 pm
One depressing fact that comes out of this is that more Americans get their news from Facebook than from cable news.

Russia's fake stories and propaganda via Facebook reached a wider audience than if they had somehow been able to insert their own scripted, Moscow-produced segments on CNN or NBC.
Have you watched cable news lately? Not totally sure that that's a downgrade.
Yeah, most TV news is minimal investigative reporting and poor at actually explaining stuff in depth. Probably a reflection of what the audience wants however, just not what it needs.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

GungHo
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by GungHo » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:18 am

Kurth wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:51 pm
Azza wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:18 pm
Kurth wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:19 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:09 pm
Holman wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:33 pm
One depressing fact that comes out of this is that more Americans get their news from Facebook than from cable news.

Russia's fake stories and propaganda via Facebook reached a wider audience than if they had somehow been able to insert their own scripted, Moscow-produced segments on CNN or NBC.
Have you watched cable news lately? Not totally sure that that's a downgrade.
Agreed. Feeling especially masochistic last night, I spent 15 minutes flipping back and forth between Tucker Carlson on Fox delivering a monologue about how the Mueller investigation and the Manafort trial are just political hit jobs and Anderson Cooper on CNN delivering a monologue about how Trump's tweet telling Sessions to stop the Mueller investigation is clear obstructionism.

That's all we get from cable news these days. Opinions from opinionated people speaking to audiences that share their opinions. That's not news. Not even close.

Does anyone watch network (ABC, CBS, NBC) news these days? Are they any better?
CNN as a whole is awful and helped empower Trump through their election coverage just like nearly every other ratings chasing outlet. That said, why are you equating Cooper to Tucker Carlson? One of them is spreading propaganda and the other is making an observation that is more or less factual. Is Trump not attempting to obstruct by telling his recused AG to interfere in an investigation? And if he is (and he is), why is there an problem with Anderson Cooper accurately stating as much? I do not see how this is a "both sides" issue.
There are incredible differences between Anderson Cooper and Tucker Carlson. I respect (and like) Cooper and generally agree with his point of view on most things. Carlson is a dishonest sellout. He’s far too intelligent to believe the crap that comes out of his mouth, so he’s purposefully misleading his audience. So, differences.

But during the segments I watched, they were largely doing the same thing. Providing opinions to their audience (and yes, characterizing Trump’s tweets as “obstruction” is most certainly an opinion). I just happen to agree with Cooper’s opinions.

And there’s nothing wrong with providing opinions: Editorials are not new and are not bad in and of themselves. But when there’s a blurring between what’s editorial and what’s news, and when there’s no clear delineation between the people giving editorials and those providing news, it’s a big problem.
I listen to MSNBC on Sirius XM most nights. I typically catch Rachel Maddow's show and the 11th Hour wth Brian Williams. They're really quite good; they're certainly biased but like I tell my wife all the time, just bc I'm biased doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong. I'm usually wrong for a whole host of other reasons. 😕

But outside of 1A on NPR which is a fascinating show IMHO I think your best bet for honest editorializing is with Michael Smerconish. I strongly disagree with him on a number of subjects and dude is supremely arrogant but he's also razor sharp. And he is no crony to either party. He definitely helps to keep me back from the cliff on some days
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

-Hiccup

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El Guapo
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by El Guapo » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:41 am

Pyperkub wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:34 am
El Guapo wrote:
Holman wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:33 pm
One depressing fact that comes out of this is that more Americans get their news from Facebook than from cable news.

Russia's fake stories and propaganda via Facebook reached a wider audience than if they had somehow been able to insert their own scripted, Moscow-produced segments on CNN or NBC.
Have you watched cable news lately? Not totally sure that that's a downgrade.
Yeah, most TV news is minimal investigative reporting and poor at actually explaining stuff in depth. Probably a reflection of what the audience wants however, just not what it needs.
Also, investigative reporting is expensive and hard, while four person talking head panel discussions are cheap and easy.

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LordMortis
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by LordMortis » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:01 am

Kraken wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:49 pm
I don't watch TV news so I can't speak to that, but as far as web stories go, CNN is about as click-baity as a legit organization can get -- so much so that I've almost stopped clicking on their links. Their actual reporting is usually still solid -- they are not "fake news" -- but their sensationalism makes me feel unclean and plays into Trump's narrative.
+1 only I have stopped clicking on them. If I am referred to them I try to second source the news from somewhere else.

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Carpet_pissr
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Carpet_pissr » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:33 am

Kraken wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:49 pm
I don't watch TV news so I can't speak to that, but as far as web stories go, CNN is about as click-baity as a legit organization can get -- so much so that I've almost stopped clicking on their links. Their actual reporting is usually still solid -- they are not "fake news" -- but their sensationalism makes me feel unclean and plays into Trump's narrative.
+100

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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Moliere » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:28 pm

This Hacker Party Is Ground Zero for Russia’s Cyberspies
As Air Force One touched down in Brussels last year for Donald Trump’s disastrous first meeting with America’s NATO allies, one of the Russian military hackers who helped put Trump in office was at a conference center in Moscow, surrounded by Russia’s top hacking talent, and likely on the prowl for new recruits.

The event, called “Positive Hacks Days,” is an annual computer security conference run by the respected Moscow-based firm Positive Technologies. Like other hacker cons it’s a mix of deep technical presentations and late-night parties, with some contests, workshops, and drinking games thrown in.

In 2017, the event’s sixth year, the theme of the two-day gathering was "The Enemy Inside.” The conference featured a competition called “The Standoff” that saw dozens of hackers working in teams to cripple a simulated metropolitan city, attacking its telecom infrastructure, rail lines and electrical grid.

For some attendees, that exercise—an echo of the coordinated cyber attacks on Kiev five months before—must have felt like just another day at the office.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow

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em2nought
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by em2nought » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:58 pm

:mrgreen:
Image
Meme probably created by a Russian bot since it left the "n" off of "than" :wink:
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Skinypupy
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by Skinypupy » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:02 pm

I’ve been really busy this week, and have mostly ignored the derp-o-sphere.

Are we back to the “3 million illegal Mexican voters” thing again?
“Don’t tickle the wall clown.” - MST3K

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gbasden
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by gbasden » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:26 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:02 pm
I’ve been really busy this week, and have mostly ignored the derp-o-sphere.

Are we back to the “3 million illegal Mexican voters” thing again?
Of course. It fits right in with QAnon, Pizzagate and other right wing nutjob "theories".

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em2nought
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Re: Russia influences election

Post by em2nought » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:34 pm

gbasden wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:26 pm
Skinypupy wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:02 pm
I’ve been really busy this week, and have mostly ignored the derp-o-sphere.

Are we back to the “3 million illegal Mexican voters” thing again?
Of course. It fits right in with QAnon, Pizzagate and other right wing nutjob "theories".
Image
#WalkAway :wink:
webuildthewall.us

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