Amazon has whacked our affiliate account. Hosting Donations/Commitments $2063 of $1920 (Sept 13/18). In Hand $1466 (Lump sum payments minus paypal graft). Paypal Donation Link Here

Unions

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:38 pm

Why don't people like unions? Things like this might be a contributing factor:
Two national railroad unions sued New Jersey on Monday over a law that forbids engineers from operating trains if they have had their motor vehicle driver's license revoked or suspended for drunken driving.

The federal lawsuit, filed in Trenton, said federal railroad laws already cover such circumstances and the state law is unnecessary.
...
According to the lawsuit, federal law already requires railroads to consider an engineer's driving record when making certification decisions and bars those with active substance abuse disorders from being certified.

The lawsuit said federal laws also outline what steps to take for re-certification and continued employment once an engineer has had his or her driver's license suspended or revoked.
So, in their lawsuit, a DUI is equated with an active substance abuse disorder.

The reason for the law? This guy:
He is responsible for getting thousands of rail commuters to work every week, but the state of New Jersey says he's unsafe behind the wheel of a car.

He's a New Jersey Transit Engineer and even though he lost his driver's license for DWI-related issues, he is legally able to drive a train.
...
In 1995, Broschart's license is suspended for two years for failing to take a breathalyzer test. Four years later, his license was suspended for one year for DWI. In 2001, the state suspends Broschart's license for the third time for failure to comply with a mandatory alcohol program. Then in 2007, he again refuses to take a breathalyzer, this time the state had enough and suspended his license for 10 years.

"You don't need a driver's license. One has nothing to do with the other," Broschart said.

And he's right, federal regulations do not require a motor vehicle driver's license to operate a locomotive.
[New Jersey Transit spokeswoman Nancy] Snyder said Thomas Broschart, the engineer whose driving record sparked the state law, is still employed by NJ Transit but is not currently driving trains.
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 13346
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Unions

Post by Zarathud » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:49 pm

I have a few uncles who are retired union train engineers. One is deaf from years of driving trains and working in the running engine room. Another refused to eat anything in the list of foods known to potentially give a false positive on the drug and alcohol tests used randomly on employees. A third worked as the union rep and retired because of the stress working with political appointees who didn't know how trains worked.

All of them have been in counseling for the stress of the job, particularly when some idiot tried to outrun the train or deliberately stopped to commit suicide. There are plenty of rules about conduct on the job and trains run on tracks.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 18426
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California
Contact:

Re: Unions

Post by Pyperkub » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:12 pm

FWIW, that's why Sark is suing USC over his firing.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 13672
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: Unions

Post by pr0ner » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:47 pm

I could probably fill a whole page of this thread with the issues WMATA's main employees union has.

When a union's most recent elections come under Labor Department investigation, for instance, there's a problem.
On June 13, 2016, in the United States District Court for the District of Maryland, Prince Georges County, the Department filed suit against Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU) Local 689. The lawsuit seeks to nullify the local’s December 2, 2015 election for all contested offices and all offices that should have been contested but for the alleged violations. The lawsuit asks the court to order a new election under the Department’s supervision. The complaint alleges that Local 689 failed to mail notice of the election to all members; denied eligible members the right to be nominated and run for office; failed to apply candidacy qualifications in a uniform manner; permitted ineligible members to vote; and failed to count ballots of eligible members. The lawsuit follows an investigation by the OLMS Washington District Office.
Also, during a recent press conference, the main ATU president called the only Republican congresswoman in the area, Barbara Comstock, racist for attacking WMATA workers' compensation and other issues (note that ATU actively campaigned against Comstock in November and repeatedly smeared her on Twitter).
“She is completely ignorant of the facts, and we want to call her out on that,” Amalgamated Transit Union President Larry Hanley, speaking of Comstock, told reporters Wednesday.

“I believe that there is a clear overtone to her attack on WMATA workers, and I frankly believe it’s racist.”
Finally, a pastor who was speaking during this same press conference called some derailment related firings a "transit lynching".
Oy.
Hodor.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:10 pm

Wisconsin
Union membership in Wisconsin is down nearly 40 percent since Republicans passed legislation known as Act 10 that all but eliminated collective bargaining for public workers, new federal data show.
...
While the percentage of Wisconsin workers in unions is again far below the national average of 10.7 percent, union membership did not take the tumble in 2016 that it did in 2015.

That year, membership fell to 8.3 percent from 11.7 percent in 2014. It was the first time union membership fell far below the national average since Act 10 was passed.

That drop in membership also came as Republican lawmakers were adopting so-called right-to-work legislation, which prohibits a company and a union from signing a contract that requires workers to pay dues.
...
In 2015, the state’s three AFSCME councils merged, prompting two out of three dues-paying members to drop out.
...
According to Thursday’s BLS report, about 14.6 million workers were members of unions in 2016 — down by 240,000 members, or 0.4 percent, from 2015. By comparison, the union membership rate was 20.1 percent, or 17.7 million workers, in 1983.
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 32675
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: Unions

Post by Remus West » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:22 pm

Funny how Unions are so vilified/corrupt right now when the Blue Collar workers need some trustworthy real leadership the most.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

User avatar
Sepiche
Posts: 7799
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Olathe, KS
Sepiche’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Unions

Post by Sepiche » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:57 pm

Remus West wrote:Funny how Unions are so vilified/corrupt right now when the Blue Collar workers need some trustworthy real leadership the most.
My brother and sister in law are pretty pro Trump/pro Republican, despite the fact the only reason he gets a living wage is because he's part of the machinists union, and so far it's done no good explaining to them they're voting for the party that would love nothing more than to see his union go away.

User avatar
stessier
Posts: 23819
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: Unions

Post by stessier » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:12 pm

In what part of the country would skilled machinists not make a living wage? They are highly sought after around here.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles

User avatar
Sepiche
Posts: 7799
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Olathe, KS
Sepiche’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Unions

Post by Sepiche » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:19 pm

stessier wrote:In what part of the country would skilled machinists not make a living wage? They are highly sought after around here.
Anywhere? Without a union to negotiate wages with the often large companies they work for, they'd be taken to the cleaners.

He barely makes enough to support his family of four as it is.

User avatar
Default
Posts: 5928
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:01 pm
Location: Handling bombs.

Re: Unions

Post by Default » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:35 pm

Sepiche wrote:
stessier wrote:In what part of the country would skilled machinists not make a living wage? They are highly sought after around here.
Anywhere? Without a union to negotiate wages with the often large companies they work for, they'd be taken to the cleaners.

He barely makes enough to support his family of four as it is.
Yup. My brother is a union sheetmetal worker. He voted for Trump.

Stupid.
"pcp, lsd, thc, tgb...it's all good." ~ Kraken

User avatar
AWS260
Posts: 10045
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:51 pm
Location: Brooklyn

Re: Unions

Post by AWS260 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:59 am

The billionaire owner of the DNAinfo and Gothamist local news sites has shut them down entirely -- all staff let go, websites taken down -- apparently because their editorial staff voted last week to unionize.

I wonder what it feels like to put more than 100 people out of work in order to stand by your anti-union principles. Do you make the decision with a heavy sigh, knowing that these misguided saps brought this upon themselves? With relief, since you never liked what they were writing in the first place? With the slightest twinge of guilt?
AWARD-WINNING BOARD GAMER

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 19835
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: Unions

Post by Holman » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:07 am

AWS260 wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:59 am
The billionaire owner of the DNAinfo and Gothamist local news sites has shut them down entirely -- all staff let go, websites taken down -- apparently because their editorial staff voted last week to unionize.

I wonder what it feels like to put more than 100 people out of work in order to stand by your anti-union principles. Do you make the decision with a heavy sigh, knowing that these misguided saps brought this upon themselves? With relief, since you never liked what they were writing in the first place? With the slightest twinge of guilt?
He not only fired them but erased the archives of the publications, erasing about a decade of local reporting and proving that he hates not only his employees but also journalism itself.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:18 am

It's like he doesn't understand that unions are there to help protect workers' from owner abuses. Have fun paying the unemployment for everyone.
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
stessier
Posts: 23819
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: Unions

Post by stessier » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:48 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:18 am
It's like he doesn't understand that unions are there to help protect workers' from owner abuses. Have fun paying the unemployment for everyone.
That's not how that works. The state pays the benefits out of a fund all companies contribute too. The bigger the company and the more claims, the more they pay. Since he shuttered these, he's not paying anything more into the fund.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:38 pm

stessier wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:48 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:18 am
It's like he doesn't understand that unions are there to help protect workers' from owner abuses. Have fun paying the unemployment for everyone.
That's not how that works. The state pays the benefits out of a fund all companies contribute too. The bigger the company and the more claims, the more they pay. Since he shuttered these, he's not paying anything more into the fund.
I'm aware of that, though my post suggests otherwise.

Quickbooks
If a company has a large number of workers who file for unemployment, the firm will be assigned a higher tax rate. As a result, businesses with the highest employee turnover rates pay higher unemployment tax rates. The state may change the experience rating each year.
Here's hoping that this comes back to bite him in the ass. Of course, I'm sure he'll just dissolve the company and sell all the assets off to a "new" company.
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
AWS260
Posts: 10045
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:51 pm
Location: Brooklyn

Re: Unions

Post by AWS260 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:43 pm

Money is clearly not an issue for this guy. He's keeping everyone on payroll for four months, or until they get another job. That ain't cheap. And by taking the websites down, he's forgoing any ad revenue from people visiting archived articles.

He just really, really doesn't ever want to deal with unions. From his personal blog:
I believe unions promote a corrosive us-against-them dynamic that destroys the esprit de corps businesses need to succeed. And that corrosive dynamic makes no sense in my mind where an entrepreneur is staking his capital on a business that is providing jobs and promoting innovation.

That’s why the type of company that interests me is one where ownership and the employees are truly in it together, without interference from a third-party union that has its own agenda and priorities. I’m not interested in any agenda at any company I start, other than working together to deliver something exceptional to consumers and doing it as everyone pulls shoulder-to-shoulder tackling whatever the marketplace throws at us.
AWARD-WINNING BOARD GAMER

User avatar
Paingod
Posts: 9886
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am

Re: Unions

Post by Paingod » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:44 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:18 am
It's like he doesn't understand that unions are there to help protect workers' from owner abuses. Have fun paying the unemployment for everyone.
Covered above, but even if it was something they had to deal with, I expect it's less expensive than the long-term pain a union would cause them.

I'm not sure which fields really need unions. Somehow IT workers get by without them. Medical workers do. Why not other career options? It seems like an outdated theme. An excuse to keep extra people employed and overpaid instead of creating a healthy dynamic where workers ebb and flow if the pay isn't good enough.

I totally get that they had a real point at some place in history, but a lot of labor laws have gone into effect since then. Are they really still needed?

Around here the only 'Union' experience I've had was second-hand - hearing tales of massive inefficiency and bureaucracy inflicted upon a local naval shipyard. Stuff like a Pipe Fitter shows up to do his job, but finds a burr in the metal and can't get past it - so instead of whipping out a grinder and spending 2 minutes fixing it, he calls for the Grinder and sits down to wait for 5 paid hours while the Grinder finishes something else. If he didn't, he'd be faced with a work deprivation union issue and slapped with a fine. I've heard it from people who were inside the unions and people who worked with them. It seems massively inefficient and bloated.
More than ever, now is the time to stand by the causes you believe in; donate and support to keep America great.
Reproductive Rights, Environmental Defense, Civil Liberties, LGBTQ Awareness, Immigration Rights
Currently playing: Mordor: Shadow of War, Curious Expedition

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:46 pm

I will give him credit for the severance packages, as I was unaware of that.

Well, the employees that felt that they needed a union obviously disagrees with how close those shoulders were. And there are ways to address it from the company side before the vote happens.
Strong leadership and good management are keys to remaining union-free. Nothing affects an organization's culture more than its management team. Employers should train the management team intensively and extensively to understand its role and impact, and to blend both leadership and management skills in effectively building the kind of culture that satisfies employees.
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:49 pm

Paingod wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:44 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:18 am
It's like he doesn't understand that unions are there to help protect workers' from owner abuses. Have fun paying the unemployment for everyone.
Covered above, but even if it was something they had to deal with, I expect it's less expensive than the long-term pain a union would cause them.

I'm not sure which fields really need unions. Somehow IT workers get by without them. Medical workers do. Why not other career options? It seems like an outdated theme. An excuse to keep extra people employed and overpaid instead of creating a healthy dynamic where workers ebb and flow if the pay isn't good enough.

I totally get that they had a real point at some place in history, but a lot of labor laws have gone into effect since then. Are they really still needed?

Around here the only 'Union' experience I've had was second-hand - hearing tales of massive inefficiency and bureaucracy inflicted upon a local naval shipyard. Stuff like a Pipe Fitter shows up to do his job, but finds a burr in the metal and can't get past it - so instead of whipping out a grinder and spending 2 minutes fixing it, he calls for the Grinder and sits down to wait for 5 paid hours while the Grinder finishes something else. If he didn't, he'd be faced with a work deprivation union issue and slapped with a fine. I've heard it from people who were inside the unions and people who worked with them. It seems massively inefficient and bloated.
Unions, just like companies, can become bound up in their own power. If the organization and the union are truly interested in doing what is best for the company and have a synergistic relationship, then great. But we don't hear about those stories. We hear about company and government organizations and unions abusing their power or furthering their own goals because it's good press.
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 5584
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Unions

Post by gbasden » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:30 pm

Income inequality and wage stagnation have grown as the power of unions have shrunk. Correlation does not equal causation and all, but... While I've seen firsthand how unions can increase inefficiency, they also are one of the few ways that workers can exert power especially in smaller towns where there aren't a plethora of employers.

User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 2173
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Unions

Post by Punisher » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:52 pm

I was in 2 separate unions during my retail years... both did nothing to help me when I lost those 2 jobs for what I thought were unfair reasons.
1) The first one. It was my day off and I had plans with the family which included picking up my step brother at the airport which meant we had to leave at a specific time. HR calls me (and other people) begging me to come in and help out since they had a lot of callouts.. I explained my situation and told them I could ONLY come in if I get out no later than 3PM. They agreed. At 2:50PM, I get told to go open a register. This takes 5-10 minutes to do and another 5-10 minutes to close. I explain to the person who told me to do this my situation and that I cant do it since, I would not have time to open and close it since I had to be out the door in 10 minutes. I was told too bad, since I'm there, I would need to stay. I refused and was fired. I went to HR and they basically said "oh well, you shouldn't have come in then" This was the first time I felt like cursing out an employer big time. Union said pretty much the same thing...

2) This was the job I went to after #1. District Manager came in for a visit and came up with a list of things he wanted done the next day. No excuses. I told him, in front of the store manager and the assistant store manager that the next day was truck day and that needed to take priority since we would have pallets and what not on the floor. He said he didn't care and that that stuff could wait until the following day. he also said this to the managers and said his list needed to be done first. they both agreed. Of course the day comes and the assistant manager says to ignore the DM's list and take care of the truck. I reminded him of what the DM said and he said he didn't care, the DM wasn't there. I foolishly thought the DM was the higher authority and told him no, so he fired me. The DM came in that Friday when I went to pick up my check and I explained what happened thinking he would side with me and get my job back. Nope. He said I should have listened to the assistant manager. Union said same thing. I have hated unions ever since.
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 25500
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Snooze

Re: Unions

Post by Blackhawk » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:10 am

I've been part of a couple of unions, and was part of unionizing one business.

Only the last one was in any way necessary.
[This space left intentionally blank.]

User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 45201
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: Unions

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:31 am

Chicago implemented an earned sick leave law in July that would make many unions blush. All employees who work at least 80 hours in a 120 day period must accrue sick time.

My favorite provision is that for first 40 hours of absence you cannot sanction an employee in any way. And upon the 41st hour they start from scratch. So it's like the first 40 hours never happened, for disciplinary purposes.

Iroinically the union town may obviate the need for unions.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Holman
Posts: 19835
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Approximately Wissahickon

Re: Unions

Post by Holman » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:30 am

My first union got me healthcare despite that fact that the employer claimed it would wreck them.

This was in the mid-1990s and the employer was the University of Michigan, which seems to be fine.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 13346
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Unions

Post by Zarathud » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:28 pm

There's a difference between a union and an ineffective one. If management gives you conflicting and inaccurate information, and the union goes along, your complaint is that there's not an effective enough union.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 11116
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Unions

Post by ImLawBoy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:00 pm

Holman wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:30 am
My first union got me healthcare despite that fact that the employer claimed it would wreck them.

This was in the mid-1990s and the employer was the University of Michigan, which seems to be fine.
Are you kidding me? We lost to Michigan State again!
We had subs. It was crazy

User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 13672
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: Unions

Post by pr0ner » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:59 am

Here is some irony for you.

The union (professional association) where I work is holding elections this month. A bunch of younger union delegates are banding together to try to overthrow the status quo.

The guy running for VP is a hardcore Republican Trump supporter. I saw him at my precinct today as a poll watcher, and when I was leaving I overheard him talking with someone about some of the right wing paranoia stuff going on. Plus his public Facebook page is full of sky is falling paranoid videos about how the union is screwing over rank and file employees and he's going to fight for what is fair.

The icing on the cake is that the work he does is pretty crappy.

Hilarious.
Hodor.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:09 pm

At the end of the day, all organizations are made of people. And people suck.
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 13672
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: Unions

Post by pr0ner » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:28 pm

Pretty much.

I'm not a dues paying member of the union so I don't get to vote. However, I see no reason to upend the status quo, as while some of the issues they fight are worthy of mockery, most things they do overall are just fine. Certainly nothing to get outraged about, and I've been here 15 years now.
Hodor.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:06 pm

Mother Jones
Add one more thing to the list of retro things young Americans are rediscovering: Unions. According to the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal think tank, 76 percent of new union members in 2017 were under 35. That’s pretty significant, considering that workers 34 and under make up just 40 percent of the country’s total workforce. In short, young workers may be kicking off a trend that could strengthen a labor movement that’s been brought to its knees by decades of attacks from employers, corporations, and hostile lawmakers.
...
John Schmitt, the vice president of EPI, points to the difficult economic landscape facing young people and a growing sense of powerlessness as one obvious reason why unions are getting a bump. “It is possible that the imagination of young people has been sparked,” he says. More of them may be receptive to “the idea of being in a union in order to counterbalance the power of the people that they work for.”
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26872
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:
Rip’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Unions

Post by Rip » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:32 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:06 pm
Mother Jones
Add one more thing to the list of retro things young Americans are rediscovering: Unions. According to the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal think tank, 76 percent of new union members in 2017 were under 35. That’s pretty significant, considering that workers 34 and under make up just 40 percent of the country’s total workforce. In short, young workers may be kicking off a trend that could strengthen a labor movement that’s been brought to its knees by decades of attacks from employers, corporations, and hostile lawmakers.
...
John Schmitt, the vice president of EPI, points to the difficult economic landscape facing young people and a growing sense of powerlessness as one obvious reason why unions are getting a bump. “It is possible that the imagination of young people has been sparked,” he says. More of them may be receptive to “the idea of being in a union in order to counterbalance the power of the people that they work for.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef ... 1e48b02400
One of the biggest cases the Supreme Court will hear this year is Janus v. AFSCME. If those letters don’t ring a bell, it’s the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, the huge union for public workers.

Mark Janus is a child support specialist employed by the Illinois Department of Healthcare and Family Services. He has declined membership in the union, as is his constitutional right, but under the Illinois Public Labor Relations Act he’s still is required to pay the union an “agency fee” as a condition of keeping his job. That fee is supposed to cover his share of the union’s expenses outside of politics – 84 percent of the full member dues last year (by the union’s calculation).

His argument is that all public union spending is so entwined with politics that he should not be compelled to subsidize any of it.

Writing this commentary piece in the Chicago Tribune, Janus said, “To keep my job at the state, I have to pay monthly fees to the AFSCME, a public union that claims to ‘represent’ me. The union is not my voice. The union’s fight is not my fight.”


Janus believes that this compulsory arrangement violates his rights under the First Amendment. He is being forced to subsidize speech of others – AFSCME officials – and the First Amendment protects against the government making us speak just as much as it protects against the government censoring our speech.
:whistle:

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 13346
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Unions

Post by Zarathud » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:36 pm

Free rider and freeloader. No surprise that you're a fan.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:37 pm

And yet he gains benefits from it being a union shop, as his pay and benefits are likely tied to the union contract. The 'free rider' problem is not new.
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 42030
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am
daehawk’s avatar
Online

Re: Unions

Post by Daehawk » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:47 pm

As someone who has never been in a union I do not like them and their money grubbin tactics.
https://www.gofundme.com/please-help-di ... -wife-died ....Help for me to take care of stuff . Wife died Jan 9 2019 after 31 years. My soulmate.
---------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
GroovAtroN, stop asking
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 57950
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: Unions

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:52 pm

Daehawk wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:47 pm
As someone who has never been in a union I do not like them and their money grubbin tactics.
Have you worked in a union shop?
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

User avatar
TheMix
Posts: 7010
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:19 pm
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
TheMix’s avatar
Away

Re: Unions

Post by TheMix » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:22 pm

A friend of mine drove a bus in the Twin Cities for a while. His health care was phenomenal. And either free or a pittance. Way better than any insurance I've had. Without the union, they would not have had anything even remotely close. And probably wages that were significantly lower.

Don't believe everything you see in movies. Not all unions are mob-connected and run by thieves.

Edit: One should not change the focus of one's sentence mid-stream.
Isgrimnur - Facebook makes you hate your friends and family. LinkedIn makes you hate you co-workers. NextDoor makes you hate your neighbors.

User avatar
Pyperkub
Posts: 18426
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: NC- that's Northern California
Contact:

Re: Unions

Post by Pyperkub » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:36 pm

What Unions can and cannot do (at least for downsizing media unions)
Now that winter has arrived, these unions are being called upon to live up to their promises. So far, they seem to be delivering some relief to employees affected by cuts. But unions have their limits.

In theory, the most important power unions offer employees in times of turmoil is a seat at the table. That means that in the case of downsizing, merger or sale, management is obligated to negotiate in good faith with members of the union’s bargaining committee to minimize the impact to workers.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Post Reply