The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

Hasan Minhaj showed that Trump isn't the only one with a thin skin. I watched the whole set - it didn't always work but he sure delivered just the right amount of contempt for them IMO.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Yeah, though the example they highlight features Clinton, the broader phenomenon is how reporters tend to fit everything into whatever the pre-established narratives are for a given politician / candidate, often at the expense of accuracy and context.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
gilraen
Posts: 4313
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:45 pm
Location: Broomfield, CO

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by gilraen »

NY Times not so "failing" after all:
The New York Times added a record number of digital subscribers last quarter, exciting investors who pushed the stock to an 11 percent gain in morning trading.

The Times added 308,000 digital subscribers in the first quarter — its best quarter since it began offering digital-only subscriptions in 2011. The additional subscribers helped boost the company to a net income of $13.2 million in the first quarter after reporting a loss of $8.3 million in the same period a year earlier.
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12297
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Moliere »

That just means more people are interested in Fake News.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

gilraen wrote:NY Times not so "failing" after all:
The New York Times added a record number of digital subscribers last quarter, exciting investors who pushed the stock to an 11 percent gain in morning trading.

The Times added 308,000 digital subscribers in the first quarter — its best quarter since it began offering digital-only subscriptions in 2011. The additional subscribers helped boost the company to a net income of $13.2 million in the first quarter after reporting a loss of $8.3 million in the same period a year earlier.
I think this is mostly / entirely prior to the events of the past week or so, when purportedly a ton of people were cancelling their NYT subscriptions to protest NYT running conservative columnist Bret Stephenson's first column, which had climate change skepticism (at least as to the extent of likely climate change impacts).

Because it's important to support the press in a time of growing authoritarianism, at least until that press runs one op-ed column that you strongly disagree with.
Black Lives Matter.
Jeff V
Posts: 36414
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Jeff V »

El Guapo wrote: Because it's important to support the press in a time of growing authoritarianism, at least until that press runs one op-ed column that you strongly disagree with.
The thing about science is that only works when opinion is completely removed. Mixing the two is a recipe for garbage.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 14950
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

Jeff V wrote:
El Guapo wrote: Because it's important to support the press in a time of growing authoritarianism, at least until that press runs one op-ed column that you strongly disagree with.
The thing about science is that only works when opinion is completely removed. Mixing the two is a recipe for garbage.
And it's really, really important to discount all the good work that the Times does if they make a misstep here or there.
That's my purse! I don't know you!
User avatar
gilraen
Posts: 4313
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:45 pm
Location: Broomfield, CO

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by gilraen »

El Guapo wrote: I think this is mostly / entirely prior to the events of the past week or so, when purportedly a ton of people were cancelling their NYT subscriptions to protest NYT running conservative columnist Bret Stephenson's first column, which had climate change skepticism (at least as to the extent of likely climate change impacts).

Because it's important to support the press in a time of growing authoritarianism, at least until that press runs one op-ed column that you strongly disagree with.
No, of course this has nothing to do with that op-ed, this just confirms the trend since after the election, where NYT, WaPo, etc. registered massive numbers of new subscribers.
User avatar
coopasonic
Posts: 20969
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: Dallas-ish

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by coopasonic »

El Guapo wrote:
gilraen wrote:NY Times not so "failing" after all:
The New York Times added a record number of digital subscribers last quarter, exciting investors who pushed the stock to an 11 percent gain in morning trading.

The Times added 308,000 digital subscribers in the first quarter — its best quarter since it began offering digital-only subscriptions in 2011. The additional subscribers helped boost the company to a net income of $13.2 million in the first quarter after reporting a loss of $8.3 million in the same period a year earlier.
I think this is mostly / entirely prior to the events of the past week or so
Yes, it is safe to say the subscribers they gained last quarter were prior to the events of the past week or so. :)
-Coop
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

gilraen wrote:
El Guapo wrote: I think this is mostly / entirely prior to the events of the past week or so, when purportedly a ton of people were cancelling their NYT subscriptions to protest NYT running conservative columnist Bret Stephenson's first column, which had climate change skepticism (at least as to the extent of likely climate change impacts).

Because it's important to support the press in a time of growing authoritarianism, at least until that press runs one op-ed column that you strongly disagree with.
No, of course this has nothing to do with that op-ed, this just confirms the trend since after the election, where NYT, WaPo, etc. registered massive numbers of new subscribers.
Right, my point is that "NYT has lots of new subscribers!" may be somewhat outdated, depending on the scale of the Stephenson defectors.

It's also an opportunity to bitch about how stupid and shortsighted the Stephenson defectors are.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Kurth
Posts: 5882
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Kurth »

El Guapo wrote:
gilraen wrote:
El Guapo wrote: I think this is mostly / entirely prior to the events of the past week or so, when purportedly a ton of people were cancelling their NYT subscriptions to protest NYT running conservative columnist Bret Stephenson's first column, which had climate change skepticism (at least as to the extent of likely climate change impacts).

Because it's important to support the press in a time of growing authoritarianism, at least until that press runs one op-ed column that you strongly disagree with.
No, of course this has nothing to do with that op-ed, this just confirms the trend since after the election, where NYT, WaPo, etc. registered massive numbers of new subscribers.
Right, my point is that "NYT has lots of new subscribers!" may be somewhat outdated, depending on the scale of the Stephenson defectors.

It's also an opportunity to bitch about how stupid and shortsighted the Stephenson defectors are.
Please keep up the bitching. I couldn't agree more.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

If people read one op ed and cancelled because of it - yes that is mock worthy. This comment treads on being a repeat of the last one I did on this subject but I think this is a bit of an unfair characterization of the debate about the Times right now. There are folks who saw the Times do much to normalize Trump during the election - including a lot of horse race coverage. They apologized for it specifically. The Op Ed board announced the Stephens hire with a claim that they wanted to improve their opinion diversity. Instead they hired a neocon war hawk who was to boot a climate change skeptic. Nothing screams establishment elite as loudly as this hire. This is a voice that is well represented overall so it did nothing to increase opinion diversity especially since they already have a neocon war hawk. They could have hired a true libertarian or a Bernie Sanders progressive but they went with the figurative embodiment of what is wrong with everything in our discourse right now.

If those cancelling are able to send the message that it is unacceptable for the NY Times to take their money and use it to print the words for establishment liars like Stephens then I think that is pretty fair. I considered it myself when they announced the hire. And I'm still considering it because in the end I think the Times is really skating on thin ice here when it comes to how they have been covering the events of the last couple of years.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote:If people read one op ed and cancelled because of it - yes that is mock worthy. This comment treads on being a repeat of the last one I did on this subject but I think this is a bit of an unfair characterization of the debate about the Times right now. There are folks who saw the Times do much to normalize Trump during the election - including a lot of horse race coverage. They apologized for it specifically. The Op Ed board announced the Stephens hire with a claim that they wanted to improve their opinion diversity. Instead they hired a neocon war hawk who was to boot a climate change skeptic. Nothing screams establishment elite as loudly as this hire. This is a voice that is well represented overall so it did nothing to increase opinion diversity especially since they already have a neocon war hawk. They could have hired a true libertarian or a Bernie Sanders progressive but they went with the figurative embodiment of what is wrong with everything in our discourse right now.

If those cancelling are able to send the message that it is unacceptable for the NY Times to take their money and use it to print the words for establishment liars like Stephens then I think that is pretty fair. I considered it myself when they announced the hire. And I'm still considering it because in the end I think the Times is really skating on thin ice here when it comes to how they have been covering the events of the last couple of years.
I mean, it is about the one op ed ultimately, even if people try to make it something broader, because that's what's launched the unsubscriptions. Believe me, I have a lot of gripes with the NY Times general election coverage, particularly of the Comey letter. But that was all true in the first quarter of the year as well, when subscriptions boomed, so that's clearly not the issue.

Also, while I have my gripes with the NY Times, they have broken a lot of important Trump stories, and they are one of the premier press institutions in the country that will break plenty more. If a ton of people cut off their subscriptions because the Times hired one conservative op-ed columnist, even if he's an idiot (and bear in mind, they have idiot liberal op-ed columnists too), then the NY Times by definition won't have as much money to do all those important stories (and bear in mind, it's those stories that are expensive, not paying one idiot op ed columnist).

By all means, let the NY Times know that you are displeased about hiring Stephenson as an op-ed columnists. But mass unsubscriptions is doing much more damage to an important press institution that is covering Trump tough at a time when the press is under real threat, which is utter madness over one op-ed columnist.
Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote:By all means, let the NY Times know that you are displeased about hiring Stephenson as an op-ed columnists. But mass unsubscriptions is doing much more damage to an important press institution that is covering Trump tough at a time when the press is under real threat, which is utter madness over one op-ed columnist.
IMO this is about their credibility. For every important piece of news they break - they have a complete pile of crap like this attempt at showing that the Trump White House is normalizing. The methodology and results are preposterous. Yet it is on the front page right now. I'm sure they'd defend it to the end of time but in the end IMO it is a very shoddy stab at applying a bizarre statistical model to what is happening.

For example, his tax plan is way more Normal and slightly more Important than Not. And I'm sure the rationale would be that Republicans call for tax cuts, etc. But it discounts that the tax plan was a single page and barely constituted a plan. It was a raw idea that barely developed from the campaign. It supposedly caught budget experts in the administration off-guard. It was dropped based on the President saying it'd happen off the cuff. That is hardly "normal". And it serves to normalize this crap storm.
President Trump says he will not insist on a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine, a retreat from decades of American policy.

On average, the panelists said this was normal, but likely to have lasting consequences. “Presidents are allowed to change even long-standing policies,” Mr. Ginsburg said. Frances Lee, professor of government and politics at the University of Maryland, said, “It is hard to say how important the president's current position is because, like his positions on other critical issues, it may well alter as he becomes more informed.”
Another example. Sure President's change long-standing policy but they normally do it for a reason. Not without any plan or thought behind it beyond that he is a fucking moron. This article isn't fit for use as 'digital' toilet paper.
User avatar
Kurth
Posts: 5882
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
Location: Portland

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Kurth »

malchior wrote:
El Guapo wrote:By all means, let the NY Times know that you are displeased about hiring Stephenson as an op-ed columnists. But mass unsubscriptions is doing much more damage to an important press institution that is covering Trump tough at a time when the press is under real threat, which is utter madness over one op-ed columnist.
IMO this is about their credibility. For every important piece of news they break - they have a complete pile of crap like this attempt at showing that the Trump White House is normalizing. The methodology and results are preposterous. Yet it is on the front page right now. I'm sure they'd defend it to the end of time but in the end IMO it is a very shoddy stab at applying a bizarre statistical model to what is happening.

For example, his tax plan is way more Normal and slightly more Important than Not. And I'm sure the rationale would be that Republicans call for tax cuts, etc. But it discounts that the tax plan was a single page and barely constituted a plan. It was a raw idea that barely developed from the campaign. It supposedly caught budget experts in the administration off-guard. It was dropped based on the President saying it'd happen off the cuff. That is hardly "normal". And it serves to normalize this crap storm.
President Trump says he will not insist on a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine, a retreat from decades of American policy.

On average, the panelists said this was normal, but likely to have lasting consequences. “Presidents are allowed to change even long-standing policies,” Mr. Ginsburg said. Frances Lee, professor of government and politics at the University of Maryland, said, “It is hard to say how important the president's current position is because, like his positions on other critical issues, it may well alter as he becomes more informed.”
Another example. Sure President's change long-standing policy but they normally do it for a reason. Not without any plan or thought behind it beyond that he is a fucking moron. This article isn't fit for use as 'digital' toilet paper.
I didn't think it was all that bad. It's obviously not scientific. It's, as you said, a stab at trying to put events in context. I don't agree with where they placed all of them, but I think it's a worthy endeavor to at least attempt to put Trump's decisions/comments/actions in perspective. I'm especially sympathetic to an attempt -- even a flawed one -- to place these events in Normal/Abnormal/Important/Unimportant space.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Every news outlet is going to have some shitty stories and some shitty columnists. The New York Times has been paying Maureen Dowd, who is a glorified political gossip columnist, for decades. The Washington Post, which has been one of the best papers in the Trump era IMO, employed Chris Cillizza for a long time, who is one of the worst and dumbest of the "horse race" journalists. And CNN's general election sins far exceed that of the NYT (and they *still* employ Jeffrey Lord), but at the same time they have broken many of the most important Trump stories since the election.

No outlet is going to be perfect. But what's happened here is that Stephenson's climate change column dropped, and then by most accounts a lot of people called to cancel subscriptions citing that op-ed (and NYT hiring him). That's madness.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12297
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Moliere »

El Guapo wrote:That's madness.
Enlarge Image
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

Kurth wrote:I didn't think it was all that bad. It's obviously not scientific. It's, as you said, a stab at trying to put events in context. I don't agree with where they placed all of them, but I think it's a worthy endeavor to at least attempt to put Trump's decisions/comments/actions in perspective. I'm especially sympathetic to an attempt -- even a flawed one -- to place these events in Normal/Abnormal/Important/Unimportant space.
I like the idea quite a bit myself. IMO the problem is they are looking at these events and applying them to a non-existent entity. The panel seems to be evaluating these events against a 'normal' President - not what is happening in actual reality. That flawed model is skewing the whole thing IMO. Under almost all of these events is something completely wacky that should push it way to the right. Saying China isn't a currency manipulator is way more normal than abnormal? Sure except he shouldn't have said it in the first place. That it happened at all is 'abnormal' by itself. That is why I think the whole exercise is flawed. It almost rewards end justifies the means logic. Hey as long as he gets to a normal place eventually...then it is normal. NO!?! His job is to make decisions. His complete lack of a process for making good decisions is the issue and this construct IMO has a strong normal bias. It is just a testimony for how wacky the beginning of his Presidency was that this model showed less normal to begin with.
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12297
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Moliere »

Oh, Canada!
For nearly three years, our colleague and friend Ben Makuch has had the full weight of Canada's intelligence agencies, federal government, and court systems bearing down on him for the crime of committing journalism.

While the Canadian editor of Motherboard, Ben interviewed Farah Mohamed Shirdon, who joined ISIS and burnt his Canadian passport on YouTube in 2014. The interview provided an early look at the motivations of one of a still-growing number of Western-born people who left Canada, the United States, or the United Kingdom to join the Islamic State. It was, by any standard, an insightful piece of reporting that helped our audience understand a mysterious and frightening enemy.

Soon after the articles ran, agents for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police showed up at VICE's Toronto office and demanded that Ben turn over all communications he had with Shirdon (which the Kik messaging service deletes as soon as they are delivered), as well as notes and emails exchanged between Ben, who now is a reporter with VICE News, and Motherboard editorial staff. The request was made under a top-secret gag order; for nine months, Ben couldn't tell his colleagues, family, or friends that the Canadian government intended to turn him into an investigative arm for its top federal police agency.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
User avatar
Enough
Posts: 14688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Serendipity
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Enough »

Yay, Trump gave Infowars press credentials. :roll:
https://twitter.com/jerome_corsi/status ... 5950907394
My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell
User avatar
tjg_marantz
Posts: 14688
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:54 pm
Location: Queen City, SK

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by tjg_marantz »

You haven't been following the news lately have you? BuzzFeed news has been doing some good work for a while now.
Home of the Akimbo AWPs
User avatar
Enough
Posts: 14688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Serendipity
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Enough »

Enough wrote:Yay, Trump gave Infowars press credentials. :roll:
https://twitter.com/jerome_corsi/status ... 5950907394
It turns out it is just for a day pass, they have not been given permanent press pass.
My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

tjg_marantz wrote:
You haven't been following the news lately have you? BuzzFeed news has been doing some good work for a while now.
No doubt - but Buzzfeed being the font of "excellence"? Is that a consequence of Buzzfeed getting better (it did) or everyone else getting worse (the bigger culprit IMO).
User avatar
Enough
Posts: 14688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Serendipity
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Enough »

malchior wrote:
tjg_marantz wrote:
You haven't been following the news lately have you? BuzzFeed news has been doing some good work for a while now.
No doubt - but Buzzfeed being the font of "excellence"? Is that a consequence of Buzzfeed getting better (it did) or everyone else getting worse (the bigger culprit IMO).
It started with their K-File research group before CNN poached Andrew Kaczynski.
My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

This tweet kicks off an amazing thread - I've unpacked it below because there are a lot of tweets.
Eric Garland wrote:Media still falling for Trump's incrementalism. He starts with something insane- breaking nepotism laws -and then get them arguing details. "You know, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. It could be *sort of legit* to use Russian spy communications!" They keep missing it. This lunatic asked for his whole family (!) to get Yankee White clearance despite zero experience or skill in government. It's a Mafia move.Then, media writes up - with a straight face - that the president's competence free son-in-law is in charge of Israel/Palestine, NAFTA, etc. The media then continues down the garden path despite the fundamental truth - POTUS has no business with his idiot son-in-law in the WH. Then the guy hires his daughter for an unpaid (???) position in the administration, and the husband-wife couple both expand corruption. These two are breathtakingly corrupt - Ivanka's hawking tchotchkes and books, Kushner's sister is selling off f**king US Visas to Chinese. But media covers the "palace intrigue" angle. Maybe Bannon doesn't like him! There's tension! He's maybe possibly a "moderating influence."

Nope! Still mangling the story! President hires direct family members to use the White House for family profit. End. Of. Goddamn. Story. Now, these grifters who have no official position and no business in the people's buildings get CAUGHT SNEAKING AROUND WITH RUSSIAN SPIES. So they keep falling for it, with "let's discuss the details about whether this might be OK" instead of "GRIFTER SON-IN-LAW WITH RUSSIANS."

1. Son-in-law has fake position and business in government.
2. His family are profiting.
3. He's also committing treason.

No more to add.

"Well," says NY Times guy, "this could be sort of legitimate," because they want to argue minutia. NOPE. Nothing to discuss, actually. There aren't two sides to this story. These guys denied ANY Russian contact, and now criminal grifter families members hang with spies.That's not an incremental story - it's a five alarm fire of corrupt insanity. Yet, the media still treats Trump to the luxury of "balance." Every morning should start with "President Trump, who openly asked Russia to hack our election and then hired his kids to make a profit..."

But instead, we justify every blasphemy against our democracy by treating each detail like it's up for a chin-scratching debate. Enough. As we say in Vermont, "Don't take all day to know the sun's shining." Trump is a criminal on task for a hostile power - and it shows. The Trump Gang - which includes the Kushners, deVos/Princes, Flynns, Mercers, and others - are greatest traitors in US history. The media ought to wake up and act like this is an emergency. Not a "hey, let's cover 'both' sides - and also criticize Hillary, still. There's only one story: Criminals conspired with Russia to damage or destroy the United States, and the GOP went along with it.

Simple as. And if you're stuck writing stories about the trees, I suggest you back up and check out the raging forest fire.

</THREAD>
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12297
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Moliere »

Men investigating Ivanka Trump brand in China arrested, missing
One man has been arrested and two others are missing after investigating working conditions at a Chinese company that produces Ivanka Trump-brand shoes, the Associated Press reported Tuesday.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

Interesting but inherently flawed discussion of Deepthroat's 'abuses of office' in leaking of information that brought down Nixon.

IMO the flaw is that the system developed leaking as a control because the Presidency has grown too powerful. As we've seen the President can fire the person investigating him. He can intimidate and suppress the workings of the government if Congress is unwilling to act. And the populace has no reasonable recourse. The Courts have been loathe to step in. Moreover we don't want to go the way of other countries and have the military be a extra-constitutional circuit breaker. Ultimately complaining about leaks is talking about a symptom. If we want to stop leaks, we need to fix the system that encourages them.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote:This tweet kicks off an amazing thread - I've unpacked it below because there are a lot of tweets.
I don't disagree with Eric Garland here exactly, but a lot of what he's complaining about is just the structure of the news (i.e. they need to report on 'new' developments) and the fact that the institutional actors who are empowered to do something about the crises (i.e. congressional Republicans) are unwilling to do anything about said crises (and the media has been reporting on their unwillingness to do so).
Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

I agree up to the point that they never seem to manage to actually tell the bigger story in context. And maybe they feel that is editorial but at this point the pinhole picture show they provide isn't working. It is information overload without the correlation and story telling that is destroying our ability to deal with this threat.
User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26891
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Rip »

Just deal with it.
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51303
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by hepcat »

Excellent suggestion. Wish you'd thought of it at some point during the previous 8 years though.

:horse:
Covfefe!
User avatar
Enough
Posts: 14688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Serendipity
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Enough »

Moliere wrote:Men investigating Ivanka Trump brand in China arrested, missing
One man has been arrested and two others are missing after investigating working conditions at a Chinese company that produces Ivanka Trump-brand shoes, the Associated Press reported Tuesday.

I guess this thread now delivers actual death of the 4th Estate, yikes.
My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

Let's not go crazy here. They are just missing - the Chinese are known for being very even handed with journalists. [/sarcasm]
User avatar
Enough
Posts: 14688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Serendipity
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Enough »

malchior wrote:Let's not go crazy here. They are just missing - the Chinese are known for being very even handed with journalists. [/sarcasm]
Well, one thing I know for sure, is that Ivanka Trump is all about inspiring and empowering. I am certain she has already addressed this and the fake media is just refusing to cover it.
My blog (mostly photos): Fort Ephemera - My Flickr Photostream

“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41247
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote:I agree up to the point that they never seem to manage to actually tell the bigger story in context. And maybe they feel that is editorial but at this point the pinhole picture show they provide isn't working. It is information overload without the correlation and story telling that is destroying our ability to deal with this threat.
The NYT and other media outlets do periodically publish "big picture" type stories synthesizing various events in a "this is what is going on" kind of way, though. That tends to be more columnist / pundit territory, though, and it's necessarily overwhelmed in volume by the "news of the day" stories.

There are also fundamental flaws like a "bothsiderism" trend in stories, though I think that's gotten better since the election.
Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

True but that is sort of my point. If the daily news is overwhelming the message perhaps they need to re-evaluate how they are providing information. This is a philosophical argument and isn't that well fleshed out. I don't know what would work but I'm sure as shit that what they are doing now isn't working.
Post Reply