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The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Jaymann
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Jaymann »

Kind of like how the Iranian Hostage Crisis spawned Nightline.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Her original tweet is terrible. She argues that she then tweeted various issues with the article pointing out how shitty it is, but how many people will see those tweets? If she is going to link the article (which she shouldn't, since it's shitty), she should at least mention it's general shitiness in the original tweet. When it comes to these sorts of things, Maggie Haberman is one of the worst.
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Interesting. Basically FB is implicitly saying that the story is garbage and that they're reducing its distribution. Which I mean, a little late, but still interesting.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:36 pm Her original tweet is terrible. She argues that she then tweeted various issues with the article pointing out how shitty it is, but how many people will see those tweets? If she is going to link the article (which she shouldn't, since it's shitty), she should at least mention it's general shitiness in the original tweet. When it comes to these sorts of things, Maggie Haberman is one of the worst.
To me I'd say there is a bit of a pattern here. I would have to dig a bit but I recall several other instances where she boosted something to get yelled at and then make some statement backtracking on it. Whether it is a lapse in judgement or performative for access I don't know but we need people like her to be better. No #FakeNews. No propaganda. Things are too dicey now for people at her level to be playing with fire like this.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Holman wrote:Sourced by Giuliani, Bannon, and Rupert Murdoch. Seems legit.
No John Solomon? That seems strange. He has been to go to guy for getting the Ukraine lies into the media.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

This gets worse. The NY Post isn't a paragon of journalism but they didn't do bare due diligence. But that was probably what the Russian agent who handed Guiliani this shit was hoping for.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Not that this is any surprise.

The question is whether the Trump administration solicited this foreign interference, and the answer is “Rudy Giuliani.”
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm kinda surprised they're (allegedly) doing the exact same thing (his emails!) from 2016, but I guess when your deplorable base eats it up, you go with what you know.

I'm sure *this time* there will be consequences.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

What is a little interesting is the debunking was super quick -- aside from Haberman and Sherman -- most serious journalists and even FB and Twitter moved to contain as much damage as possible. That's a real improvement. That of course has lead evil fucks like Cruz and such to write letters to demand why the liberal media is hiding the truth.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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It's pretty transparently fake, and unlikely to fool anyone outside of trump's base, who are easily fooled by definition.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:26 am What is a little interesting is the debunking was super quick -- aside from Haberman and Sherman -- most serious journalists and even FB and Twitter moved to contain as much damage as possible. That's a real improvement. That of course has lead evil fucks like Cruz and such to write letters to demand why the liberal media is hiding the truth.
And Haberman was quick to follow up with debunking tweets and the like (even if, as we discussed, she needs to think more about how her tweets can and will be viewed in isolation).

It's definitely a different media environment that 2016. Partly because the media, while wildly imperfect, has learned *some lessons* from 2016, and in part because the media genuinely bought into a lot of the right wing propaganda casting Clinton as some unethical criminal of some type, whereas Biden's persona is just inherently immunizes him from being seen as some type of criminal mastermind.
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Kraken wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:56 am It's pretty transparently fake, and unlikely to fool anyone outside of trump's base, who are easily fooled by definition.
Well, also some journalists apparently, and all the mouthpieces who what to make this THE story to distract from everything else.

We've known for a long time that repeating the big lie over and over can and will get some people to accept it as the truth, or at least go down the rabbit hole with it.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

The NY Times an excellent article detailing the workings of the propaganda mills that some GOP operatives are setting up to fill the gap in a dying local news landscape. Waged by the GOP or companies interested in boosting themselves at the expense of the polity.
The instructions were clear: Write an article calling out Sara Gideon, a Democrat running for a hotly contested U.S. Senate seat in Maine, as a hypocrite.

Angela Underwood, a freelance reporter in upstate New York, took the $22 assignment over email. She contacted the spokesman for Senator Susan Collins, the Republican opponent, and wrote an article on his accusations that Ms. Gideon was two-faced for criticizing shadowy political groups and then accepting their help.

The short article was published on Maine Business Daily, a seemingly run-of-the-mill news website, under the headline “Sen. Collins camp says House Speaker Gideon’s actions are hypocritical.” It extensively quoted Ms. Collins’s spokesman but had no comment from Ms. Gideon’s campaign.

Then Ms. Underwood received another email: The “client” who had ordered up the article, her editor said, wanted it to add more detail.

The client, according to emails and the editing history reviewed by The New York Times, was a Republican operative.

Maine Business Daily is part of a fast-growing network of nearly 1,300 websites that aim to fill a void left by vanishing local newspapers across the country. Yet the network, now in all 50 states, is built not on traditional journalism but on propaganda ordered up by dozens of conservative think tanks, political operatives, corporate executives and public-relations professionals, a Times investigation found.

The sites appear as ordinary local-news outlets, with names like Des Moines Sun, Ann Arbor Times and Empire State Today. They employ simple layouts and articles about local politics, community happenings and sometimes national issues, much like any local newspaper.

But behind the scenes, many of the stories are directed by political groups and corporate P.R. firms to promote a Republican candidate or a company, or to smear their rivals.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

And when an independent-ish 4th Estate fails, guess who's there to fill the gap with misinformation?
Maine Business Daily is part of a fast-growing network of nearly 1,300 websites that aim to fill a void left by vanishing local newspapers across the country. Yet the network, now in all 50 states, is built not on traditional journalism but on propaganda ordered up by dozens of conservative think tanks, political operatives, corporate executives and public-relations professionals, a Times investigation found.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

I mentioned Glenn Greenwald in the Final Showdown thread and boom up pops a nuclear fireball incinerating that huckster.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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"I have the greatest respect for the journalist Glenn Greenwald used to be..."

Oof.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Greenwald's picked his villains, and builds all the rest of his analysis from there. Foremost among his villains is U.S. intelligence agencies. Which winds up giving him some sympathy for Trump, because the U.S. intelligence agencies have generally been at odds with Trump.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:32 pm Greenwald's picked his villains, and builds all the rest of his analysis from there. Foremost among his villains is U.S. intelligence agencies. Which winds up giving him some sympathy for Trump, because the U.S. concept of intelligence has agencies have generally always been at odds with Trump.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Why is Jason Miller still being booked on TV? Here he is literally signaling the battle cry they'll be raising on Wednesday morning if Trump happens to be ahead on Tuesday night. Get prepared people.

Edit: Worst part is that by many accounts is Stephanopolous didn't push back or challenge it. They book them, they let them say their terrifying shit, and then they thank them for coming on. It is malpractice and absolutely unacceptable.



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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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NY Times: Black Lives Matter Meets QAnon as Newest Members of Congress Arrive

Well that's one hell of a headline to describe the incoming class. Surely they talk about the vast difference between a movement for racial equality and a wingnut conspiracy theory in the article, right? They start the piece by acknowledging it and then oh...about 3/4 of the way through the piece we have the quote below. Well I guess that covers it. The article does point out Greene's crazy but the only mention of BLM at all is the juxtaposition in the headline. It is essentially a piece describing the uptick of Republican women elected with a splash of diversity coverage. Cool.
But as the new members arrived on Capitol Hill, Representative Kevin McCarthy, Republican of California and the minority leader, found himself defending a pair of newly elected members on his party’s far right: Ms. Greene, a QAnon follower, and Lauren Boebert of Colorado, who has made supportive comments about the viral conspiracy movement.

Mr. McCarthy claimed both had disavowed the group, which has been labeled a potential domestic terrorism threat, and urged reporters to “give them an opportunity” before seeking to characterize them. While Ms. Boebert has said she is not a follower of QAnon and Ms. Greene recently said she had chosen to follow “another path,” Ms. Greene has never denounced the group, whose convoluted theory claims falsely that a cabal of Satan-worshiping, pedophile Democrats is plotting against President Trump.
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CNN wrote:YouTube on Tuesday barred One America News Network from posting new videos and livestreaming for one week, after the right-leaning media organization uploaded a fake cure for the coronavirus.

“After careful review, we removed a video from OANN and issued a strike on the channel for violating our COVID-19 misinformation policy, which prohibits content claiming there’s a guaranteed cure,” a YouTube spokesperson told CNBC. “Additionally, due to repeated violations of our Covid-19 misinformation policy and other channel monetization policies, we’ve suspended the channel from the YouTube Partner Program and as a result, its monetization on YouTube.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

What a colossal bunch of crap coming from the NYT:


"Test of Ethics Awaits Biden and His Team"
Really NYT? IS this a preview of what we're going to see non-stop for the next four years?
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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I kinda doubt we will see many fluff pieces like this.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:24 pmReally NYT? IS this a preview of what we're going to see non-stop for the next four years?
Awful - ooh they worked for 'undisclosed clients'. Welcome to high end consulting. I've worked for several clients that I can't disclose. It doesn't mean I'm in their pocket - it mean they just won't let my firm trade on our relationship and we signed agreements to that effect. It is perfectly normal. In the end, I think this is the usual noise we'll see and I expect it'll eventually die out if this administration is run anything like the Obama administration in the regards to personnel.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Yeah, except I'm already seeing on social media how this is a perfect example of "both sides are bad" and what did you expect with a vote for Biden, you knew he was corrupt, etc...

The idea that the NYT would feed into this mentality with a bullshit headline to sell papers is beyond gross.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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I thought we'd already written them off.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Yeah, I guess we had. I suppose I was genuinely surprised to see the actual headline - it generated a legit "are you f-ing kidding me" out loud.
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malchior wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:45 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:24 pmReally NYT? IS this a preview of what we're going to see non-stop for the next four years?
Awful - ooh they worked for 'undisclosed clients'. Welcome to high end consulting. I've worked for several clients that I can't disclose. It doesn't mean I'm in their pocket - it mean they just won't let my firm trade on our relationship and we signed agreements to that effect. It is perfectly normal. In the end, I think this is the usual noise we'll see and I expect it'll eventually die out if this administration is run anything like the Obama administration in the regards to personnel.
This story will be forgotten soon. However, in general I think that the NYT will absolutely start to act like the last 4 years never happened and write pieces that feature credulous accounts of the GOP's deficit concerns, act like ethics issues that come up with the Biden administration are on par with what we've seen the last few years, etc.
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Yeah I expect that too. The NY Times as much as it is called a liberal paper is very much the voice of the oligarchy and its 'very serious people'.
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Post by El Guapo »

Can I just say that I deeply love that this is Neera Tanden's twitter feed banner?

Enlarge Image

I don't know her super well, but pretty much everything I see from her is pretty great.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Not so great was when I saw her on tape recommending reducing Social Security and Medicare to reduce the deficit. Doubt seriously if Biden would entertain that notion.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Jaymann wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:40 am Not so great was when I saw her on tape recommending reducing Social Security and Medicare to reduce the deficit. Doubt seriously if Biden would entertain that notion.
And the secondary complaint against her is that she somehow wouldn't be enough of a deficit hawk because the deficit is suddenly again our primary concern. :roll: The actual main complaint is she was mean to some GOP Senators on Twitter...really.
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malchior wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:53 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:40 am Not so great was when I saw her on tape recommending reducing Social Security and Medicare to reduce the deficit. Doubt seriously if Biden would entertain that notion.
And the secondary complaint against her is that she somehow wouldn't be enough of a deficit hawk because the deficit is suddenly again our primary concern. :roll: The actual main complaint is she was mean to some GOP Senators on Twitter...really.
Well, seems like Bernie World (though not, as far as I can tell, Bernie) has some gripes based on Tanden considering Medicare / SS cuts during 2012 negotiations with Boehner (and, I think, based on Tanden being a prominent Clinton ally in the 2008 and 2016 campaigns).

BUT that stuff is probably for another thread anyway. For this thread I just want to enjoy Tanden using her Twitter banner to get a dig in at Chuck Todd and MTP.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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malchior wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:53 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:40 am Not so great was when I saw her on tape recommending reducing Social Security and Medicare to reduce the deficit. Doubt seriously if Biden would entertain that notion.
And the secondary complaint against her is that she somehow wouldn't be enough of a deficit hawk because the deficit is suddenly again our primary concern. :roll: The actual main complaint is she was mean to some GOP Senators on Twitter...really.
Fair enough! I'm down with the idea. I'm still waiting to see if NBC figures out how disastrous Todd was this election. I've been purposefully avoiding tuning in or giving them any clicks and seeing if they adjust on their own because he was...negligent often and next to useless the rest of the time.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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malchior wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:11 pm
malchior wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:53 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:40 am Not so great was when I saw her on tape recommending reducing Social Security and Medicare to reduce the deficit. Doubt seriously if Biden would entertain that notion.
And the secondary complaint against her is that she somehow wouldn't be enough of a deficit hawk because the deficit is suddenly again our primary concern. :roll: The actual main complaint is she was mean to some GOP Senators on Twitter...really.
Fair enough! I'm down with the idea. I'm still waiting to see if NBC figures out how disastrous Todd was this election. I've been purposefully avoiding tuning in or giving them any clicks and seeing if they adjust on their own because he was...negligent often and next to useless the rest of the time.
I'm sure that Todd already has a full calendar for 2021 of Republicans coming on to talk about how Very Serious they are about the deficit, about the importance of having Senate-confirmed and not acting appointees, etc.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:14 pm
malchior wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:11 pm
malchior wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:53 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:40 am Not so great was when I saw her on tape recommending reducing Social Security and Medicare to reduce the deficit. Doubt seriously if Biden would entertain that notion.
And the secondary complaint against her is that she somehow wouldn't be enough of a deficit hawk because the deficit is suddenly again our primary concern. :roll: The actual main complaint is she was mean to some GOP Senators on Twitter...really.
Fair enough! I'm down with the idea. I'm still waiting to see if NBC figures out how disastrous Todd was this election. I've been purposefully avoiding tuning in or giving them any clicks and seeing if they adjust on their own because he was...negligent often and next to useless the rest of the time.
I'm sure that Todd already has a full calendar for 2021 of Republicans coming on to talk about how Very Serious they are about the deficit, about the importance of having Senate-confirmed and not acting appointees, etc.
Luckily they've paired him up with Mitchell who already made noise over the weekend for claiming that Biden wasn't transparent enough about his ankle injury. :cry:

Todd is just one of the more obvious cases of the major chairs not being able to manage 'modernity' well. It really appears that big picture speaking the media couldn't deal with Trump until the very end when even they knew he was peddling danger. Now that he looks to be moving out of the immediate danger picture many of them have slouched right back into their useless forms. Worse the industry is cutting out all of the new blood in massive media consolidations. The 4th Estate is on life support.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

In case you were wondering what it would take for news agencies to actually report the insanity that is Trump, apparently his "news conference" yesterday did it:
Increasingly detached from reality, President Donald Trump stood before a White House lectern and delivered a 46-minute diatribe against the election results that produced a win for Democrat Joe Biden, unspooling one misstatement after another to back his baseless claim that he really won.

Trump called his address, released Wednesday only on social media and delivered in front of no audience, perhaps “the most important speech” of his presidency. But it was largely a recycling of the same litany of misinformation and unsubstantiated allegations of voter fraud that he has been making for the past month.
Score one for the APand the team that wrote it.
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