Amazon has whacked our affiliate account. Hosting Donations/Commitments $2063 of $1920 (Sept 13/18). In Hand $1466 (Lump sum payments minus paypal graft). Paypal Donation Link Here

The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 11663
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Moliere » Tue May 01, 2018 4:25 pm

Moliere wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:17 pm
Malaysia outlaws 'fake news'; sets jail of up to six years

Unintended consequences: label anti-government sentiment as "fake news".
Boom! Called it:

Malaysia's First 'Fake News' Conviction Is All About Shielding Government from Criticism
Salah Salem Saleh Sulaiman posted an angry YouTube video claiming that it took police in Kuala Lampur, Malaysia, 50 minutes to respond to calls over the fatal April shooting of a Palastinian engineer. The police disagree. So now Sulaiman is going to jail.

It's the first conviction under Malaysia's new law criminalizing "fake news," and it's a big warning to anybody who thinks the government should get involved in determining what deserves the "fake news" label.

Whose accounting of the time is correct? I don't know. Police records say the first police car responded within eight minutes. That doesn't necessarily make it true.

Sulaiman, who is actually a Dutch citizen of Yemeni descent, threw himself on the mercy of the court and pleaded guilty, insisting that he meant no harm. He did not have any legal representation. He was fined the equivalent of $2,500 dollars, which he says he couldn't pay. So he's going to prison for a month.

Malaysia's new law has been attacked by activists concerned that Prime Minister Najib Razak will abuse it to shield himself from criticism for his ongoing financial corruption scandal (he's accused of siphoning off hundreds of millions of dollars from a government investment fund) and to crack down on his opponents. Malaysia has a general election scheduled for May 9.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 32527
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Kraken » Tue May 01, 2018 4:56 pm

Cobert Steve-splains the WHCD.

(Is this the right thread for this? R&P is hard.)

User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 13202
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by pr0ner » Fri May 04, 2018 9:11 am

Someone on Fox News not named Shep Smith having a go at Trump? Huh.

Hodor.

User avatar
tjg_marantz
Posts: 14447
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:54 pm
Location: Queen City, SK

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by tjg_marantz » Fri May 04, 2018 9:17 am

That is surprising. And all fair criticism. I'm sure it won't stand.
Home of the Akimbo AWPs

User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 16081
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Unagi » Fri May 04, 2018 9:19 am

Kinda odd, right? I mean seriously what is it that made this finally a thing on Fox News? Turning point? very interesting, IMO.

I guess we'll see.

User avatar
Sepiche
Posts: 7568
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Olathe, KS
Sepiche’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Sepiche » Fri May 04, 2018 11:30 am

In my heart of hearts I just keep thinking some Drumpf Republicans, at some point, have to come to the realization that trying to defend Drumpf is just tilting at windmills and they're better off throwing him under the bus.

malchior
Posts: 7900
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Mon May 21, 2018 7:09 am

:grund:




User avatar
YellowKing
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by YellowKing » Mon May 21, 2018 7:56 am

Two comments on that Fox News clip:

1. I find it hysterical that Fox News has a segment called "Common Sense."

2. Twice Cavuto said the string of lies he HAD LITERALLY JUST RATTLED OFF FOR FOUR MINUTES neither made Trump a liar nor that his words were fake. Huh?

It's great that there's some criticism coming from that side, but when it's couched in a constant string of apologetic contradictions, I'm not ready to stand up and applaud yet.

User avatar
Ralph-Wiggum
Posts: 15305
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:51 am

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Mon May 21, 2018 10:32 am

malchior wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:09 am
:grund:

I had the exact same reaction when I saw that NYT headline. Why anyone trusts Giuliani about anything he says related to the president, I have no idea.

malchior
Posts: 7900
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Mon May 21, 2018 11:03 am

Or that he is speaking for Mueller. As the lawyer of a man being investigated. It is bizarre. WTF is the NY Times thinking?

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 32527
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Kraken » Tue May 29, 2018 12:01 pm

This could go in any of half a dozen threads: Why Trump brings conspiracy theories to the White House.
Now that he is president, Trump’s baseless stories of secret plots by powerful interests are having a distinct effect, eroding public trust in institutions, undermining the idea of objective truth, and sowing widespread suspicions about the government and news media that mirror his own.

“The effect on the life of the nation of a president inventing conspiracy theories in order to distract attention from legitimate investigations or other things he dislikes is corrosive,” said Jon Meacham, a presidential historian and biographer.

“The diabolical brilliance of the Trump strategy of disinformation is that many people are simply going to hear the charges and countercharges, and decide that there must be something to them because the president of the United States is saying them,” Meacham said.
...
Now that he is president, Trump’s baseless stories of secret plots by powerful interests are having a distinct effect, eroding public trust in institutions, undermining the idea of objective truth, and sowing widespread suspicions about the government and news media that mirror his own.

“The effect on the life of the nation of a president inventing conspiracy theories in order to distract attention from legitimate investigations or other things he dislikes is corrosive,” said Jon Meacham, a presidential historian and biographer.

“The diabolical brilliance of the Trump strategy of disinformation is that many people are simply going to hear the charges and countercharges, and decide that there must be something to them because the president of the United States is saying them,” Meacham said.
...
Erick Erickson, the founder of the conservative website RedState, who once described Trump as a “walking, talking National Enquirer,” said the president’s invented stories also speak to the public’s desire to have an easy explanation for events it cannot control.

“A lot of people really want to believe a conspiracy because it’s a lot easier to think a malevolent force is in charge than that our government is run by idiots,” Erickson said in an interview.

malchior
Posts: 7900
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Tue May 29, 2018 12:38 pm

I find it ironic that there is a reasonable but not 100% sure conspiracy theory that explains why our government is run by idiots.

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 59218
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LordMortis » Tue May 29, 2018 12:46 pm

Kraken wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:01 pm
This could go in any of half a dozen threads: Why Trump brings conspiracy theories to the White House.
Now that he is president, Trump’s baseless stories of secret plots by powerful interests are having a distinct effect, eroding public trust in institutions, undermining the idea of objective truth, and sowing widespread suspicions about the government and news media that mirror his own.

“The effect on the life of the nation of a president inventing conspiracy theories in order to distract attention from legitimate investigations or other things he dislikes is corrosive,” said Jon Meacham, a presidential historian and biographer.

“The diabolical brilliance of the Trump strategy of disinformation is that many people are simply going to hear the charges and countercharges, and decide that there must be something to them because the president of the United States is saying them,” Meacham said.
...
Now that he is president, Trump’s baseless stories of secret plots by powerful interests are having a distinct effect, eroding public trust in institutions, undermining the idea of objective truth, and sowing widespread suspicions about the government and news media that mirror his own.

“The effect on the life of the nation of a president inventing conspiracy theories in order to distract attention from legitimate investigations or other things he dislikes is corrosive,” said Jon Meacham, a presidential historian and biographer.

“The diabolical brilliance of the Trump strategy of disinformation is that many people are simply going to hear the charges and countercharges, and decide that there must be something to them because the president of the United States is saying them,” Meacham said.
...
Erick Erickson, the founder of the conservative website RedState, who once described Trump as a “walking, talking National Enquirer,” said the president’s invented stories also speak to the public’s desire to have an easy explanation for events it cannot control.

“A lot of people really want to believe a conspiracy because it’s a lot easier to think a malevolent force is in charge than that our government is run by idiots,” Erickson said in an interview.
One of the true is true though they are not mutually exclusive

Trump buys in to this drivel. His ego is stroked by his being a champion of bringing down the Illuminati stranglehold on the US
Trumps base buys in to this drivel. His feeding his base keeps his spice flowing.
A lot of people really want to believe a conspiracy because
There has to be something better than in the middle
But me & Cinderella, We put it all together
We can drive it home With one headlight


User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 44555
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, where we only use the old smilies

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu May 31, 2018 4:59 pm

Stalin would be pleased with the lowering of the bar.

"One tweet is a tragedy. Five thousand deaths is a statistic."
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT

User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 32527
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:
Kraken’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Kraken » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:18 pm

To be fair(ish), the Puerto Rico story was not about an actual body count, but rather a statistical analysis of excess deaths based on a small sample of households. While statisticians consider the methodology valid, it doesn't make for a compelling news story. You glazed over a little just reading my first sentence. We're talking about TV news here. A story about TV is naturally going to be bigger news than one with stale video.

On a completely unrelated note:

“THAT IS WHAT POWER LOOKS LIKE”: AS TRUMP PREPARES FOR 2020, DEMOCRATS ARE LOSING THE ONLY FIGHT THAT MATTERS
We are supposed to be living in a time of historic media fragmentation, when the competition for fickle eyeballs is the chief priority for businesses, media companies, and politicians. Only Trump, an old-school media hound who still cares about things like magazine covers and leathery-faced, 90s-era TV personalities, has figured it out. He dominates our attention universe to the point where he blocks out the sun. It is as depressing as it is remarkable. And it’s no wonder people don’t quite know what Democrats stand for.
...
when Trump claims that he is the victim of a “DEEP STATE” conspiracy designed to undercut his presidency—#SPYGATE!—our political conversation suddenly becomes premised on a lie, but his lies are nevertheless the terms of the debate. The conservative echo chamber falls in line behind Trump to amplify the noise, repeating his claims without scrutiny. Even the mainstream press slips and muddies the waters, as when The New York Times blithely repeated Rudy Giuliani’s one-sided claim that Robert Mueller plans to wrap up his investigation into whether Trump obstructed the Russia investigation by September 1. How can Democrats possibly compete with this information overload?

“The way to disempower Trump is to ignore him, but it’s too hard even for his opponents to do it,” Wu told me over the phone recently. “It has to be a pure attention battle. If you were another network and Trump was I Love Lucy, what do you do? You can’t necessarily spend all your time criticizing I Love Lucy because that will just build it up. You need your own programming and to develop your own characters and celebrities who have to be as interesting and compelling. You need to have your own show. And I don’t think Democrats have their own show other than the ‘I Hate Trump’ show.”
...
Trump doesn’t understand much, but he very much understands that simplicity and conflict win the attention war, not nuance. His shamelessness, too, is an advantage. As the Associated Press reported this week, Trump told an associate that he wanted “to brand” the F.B.I. informant who was dispatched to snoop on his campaign as a “spy,” because he believed “the more nefarious term would resonate more in the media and with the public.” He went on to tweet about #SPYGATE 10 times in three days, and it’s now what the national press is talking about.

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 36996
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:28 am

He's the god damn president of the united states. Ignoring him is not an option. He's not Kim Kardashian no matter how much he would prefer to be.

Holding the magnifying glass to him until the sun causes him to burst into flames is the only way to defeat him.

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 56381
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Offline

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:18 pm

The Hill
A Puerto Rican judge reportedly ruled on Monday that the government must release death certificates and related data to news outlets looking into the aftermath of Hurricane Maria.

CNN reported on Tuesday that the government has seven days to release the information. The decision comes after CNN and the Center for Investigative Journalism in Puerto Rico sued the local government in an effort to get access to death records after Hurricane Maria.

In his ruling, Puerto Rico Superior Court Judge Lauracelis Roques Arroyo said that the records are matter of public information and that they must be released.

The judge's ruling comes amid scrutiny over the official death count as a result of Hurricane Maria. On May 29, a new study from The New England Journal of Medicine concluded that the death toll from the hurricane was 70 times more than the official government estimate. The study also noted that Puerto Rican officials had declined to disclose key mortality statistics, which enraged Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rosselló.
Silver - 3k

People who are wrong often get mad at people who are right. (I have surprisingly never been shot.) (h/t Kevin Underhill, Lowering the Bar)

malchior
Posts: 7900
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:15 pm

I don't usually get cranky about WaPo but their editorial about Sanders getting politely asked to leave dinner at the Red Hen struck a nerve in me. I found a very long Twitter thread here about it that matches my thoughts about it - namely that labeling protest as 'uncivil' behavior has been the Serious Persons mantra as we have de descended into madness.

If a restaurant doesn't want to serve a person who's job is lie to the public about their bosses horrid and abysmal record - so be it. This isn't over religion or who they are. It is due to their terrible conduct.


User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26849
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:
Rip’s avatar
Away

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Rip » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:36 pm

Keep stoking the fires. Just a matter of time before there is another Scalise incident.

We can all either be civil or be uncivil, once the choice is made going back will be very hard.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 37987
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:50 pm

Rip wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:36 pm
We can all either be civil or be uncivil, once the choice is made going back will be very hard.
There's a long history of using business owners as political props. Before the Republicans were outraged at the Red Hen, they embraced a Virginia baker's treatment of Joe Biden. Everything old is new again.

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 36116
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by hepcat » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:57 pm

Fox News (which has a weird obsession with snake stories, I've learned...seriously, count the number of times you see a story about someone finding a snake or something on their web site's front page) wants you to believe that dems are in uncharted territory with all these protests, but that's bullshit. Between Palin and Nugent alone, we have a history of people going so far as to threaten the lives of Obama's family, placing targets on democrats in general, etc..
Rip wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:36 pm
Keep stoking the fires. Just a matter of time before there is another Scalise incident.
You mean a mentally unstable person shooting someone? Or shall we blame all white supremacist shootings/murders on conservative rhetoric because perpetrators are almost always either far right or alt right? Trust me, this isn't a numbers game you want to play.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
geezer
Posts: 7231
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: Yeeha!

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by geezer » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:31 pm

"...By the way, and if she gets to pick --if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know."

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 36996
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:53 pm

Rip wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:36 pm
Keep stoking the fires. Just a matter of time before there is another Scalise incident.

We can all either be civil or be uncivil, once the choice is made going back will be very hard.
Stop trying to serve shit sandwiches then blaming the other side when they react poorly.

Jesus Christ.

YOU voted in a monstrosity to purposely destroy things. Em has posted that the GOP is no longer civil because civil didn't work.

Somehow kicking a PR person out of a restaurant is the last straw.

You caused this Rip. You personally. You are a bad person. Enjoy what you sowed.

malchior
Posts: 7900
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:55 pm

Yeah I am sort of amazed that asking someone to leave your restaurant is 'uncivil' behavior that compares in any way to the stuff we've seen happen on the right. Talk about skewed perceptions. That is ultimately my problem with the WaPo piece - it re-centers the 'normal' scale in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense on the scales.

Still in the grand scheme of things - the WaPo editorial is a minor ding on an otherwise excellent OpEd page. They just let their inner plutocrat do a little talking. Almost like they were internalizing how embarrassing and inconvenient that situation could be instead of seeing the big picture.

User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26849
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:
Rip’s avatar
Away

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Rip » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:32 pm

Yea, it went well beyond just asking her to leave.
Mike Huckabee told Laura Ingraham today that the story didn't end there. "Once Sarah and her family left — and, of course, Sarah was asked to please vacate — Sarah and her husband just went home," he said. "They had sort of had enough."

But the rest of her family went across the street to another restaurant, he explained, and that's when things got even more absurd.

"The owner of the Red Hen —because nobody's told this — then followed them across the street, called people and organized a protest, yelling and screaming at them from outside the restaurant and creating this scene," said Huckabee. One of Sanders' in-laws, whom he described as "very liberal," walked out and said, "Look, I don't like Trump, I'm not a supporter, I'm a far — considered liberal — but you guys are embarrassing me and you're not helping the cause."

Nevertheless, the mob yelled and screamed even though Sanders was no longer there because, apparently, having even a tangential relationship to the Trump administration means you're not fit to be out and about in polite society and you're no longer to be afforded public accommodations.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/mike-hucka ... d-protest/

Even Chuck Schumer of all people recognizes this isn't a direction we should be going in.
Senator Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, strongly disagreeing with the public statements of Rep. Maxine Waters, went on the Senate floor and declared "no one should call for the harassment of political opponents."

"That's not right," he said, "that's not American."

He added: "I strongly disagree with those who advocate harassing folks if they don't agree with you. If you disagree with someone or something, stand up, make your voice heard, explain why you think they're wrong, and why you're right."
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... c5c9de9e37

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 12070
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Skinypupy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:49 pm

Rip wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:32 pm
Yea, it went well beyond just asking her to leave.
Mike Huckabee told Laura Ingraham today that the story didn't end there. "Once Sarah and her family left — and, of course, Sarah was asked to please vacate — Sarah and her husband just went home," he said. "They had sort of had enough."

But the rest of her family went across the street to another restaurant, he explained, and that's when things got even more absurd.

"The owner of the Red Hen —because nobody's told this — then followed them across the street, called people and organized a protest, yelling and screaming at them from outside the restaurant and creating this scene," said Huckabee. One of Sanders' in-laws, whom he described as "very liberal," walked out and said, "Look, I don't like Trump, I'm not a supporter, I'm a far — considered liberal — but you guys are embarrassing me and you're not helping the cause."

Nevertheless, the mob yelled and screamed even though Sanders was no longer there because, apparently, having even a tangential relationship to the Trump administration means you're not fit to be out and about in polite society and you're no longer to be afforded public accommodations.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/mike-hucka ... d-protest/
I'm sure that's a fully accurate representation of what happened, and not exaggerated for effect in the slightest. You'll forgive me if I don't exactly give the Huckabeasts the benefit of the doubt.

My guess is that one heckler maybe followed them across the street.
We are are the last of the legion.
The last of the bastion.
We are the best of the bastards.
And slaves to none.
- "Row Row", Zeal & Ardor

User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26849
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:
Rip’s avatar
Away

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Rip » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:56 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:49 pm
Rip wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:32 pm
Yea, it went well beyond just asking her to leave.
Mike Huckabee told Laura Ingraham today that the story didn't end there. "Once Sarah and her family left — and, of course, Sarah was asked to please vacate — Sarah and her husband just went home," he said. "They had sort of had enough."

But the rest of her family went across the street to another restaurant, he explained, and that's when things got even more absurd.

"The owner of the Red Hen —because nobody's told this — then followed them across the street, called people and organized a protest, yelling and screaming at them from outside the restaurant and creating this scene," said Huckabee. One of Sanders' in-laws, whom he described as "very liberal," walked out and said, "Look, I don't like Trump, I'm not a supporter, I'm a far — considered liberal — but you guys are embarrassing me and you're not helping the cause."

Nevertheless, the mob yelled and screamed even though Sanders was no longer there because, apparently, having even a tangential relationship to the Trump administration means you're not fit to be out and about in polite society and you're no longer to be afforded public accommodations.
https://pjmedia.com/trending/mike-hucka ... d-protest/
I'm sure that's a fully accurate representation of what happened, and not exaggerated for effect in the slightest. You'll forgive me if I don't exactly give the Huckabeasts the benefit of the doubt.

My guess is that one heckler maybe followed them across the street.
I look forward to you coming back and setting the record straight when you find out this is exactly what happened. The story is all over and I haven't seen a single denial concerning the stalking them to somewhere else story. Will be easy enough to establish the truth.

User avatar
msteelers
Posts: 5860
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by msteelers » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pm

malchior wrote:I don't usually get cranky about WaPo but their editorial about Sanders getting...
I’m not sure that a post about an editorial belongs in the journalism thread.

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 13164
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Zarathud » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:14 pm

If the GOP insists that religious freedom means the right to refuse service to gay weddings or deliver abortion prescriptions or health insurance, then Huckabee-Sanders shouldn't be surprised when she's refused service because of her actions defending the Trump administration's child immigrant policy.

Protests getting out of hand isn't even particularly newsworthy.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 13164
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Zarathud » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:14 pm

If the GOP insists that religious freedom means the right to refuse service to gay weddings or deliver abortion prescriptions or health insurance, then Huckabee-Sanders shouldn't be surprised when she's refused service because of her actions defending the Trump administration's child immigrant policy.

Protests getting out of hand isn't even particularly newsworthy.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. - Nixon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

User avatar
Skinypupy
Posts: 12070
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Pac-12 Country

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Skinypupy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:37 pm

Rip wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:56 pm
I look forward to you coming back and setting the record straight when you find out this is exactly what happened. The story is all over right wing sites and blogs, all of which source back to the single interview from Mike Huckabee, and I haven't seen a single denial concerning the stalking them to somewhere else story. Will be easy enough to establish the truth.
Fixed that for you.

Yes, we all know the initial heckling and Sanders' removal happened. As for the "owner organized a mob to chase us" bit, I suppose we'll wait and see. But yes, if reporting comes out that did actually happen, I will absolutely eat my full helping of crow. I do find it fascinating that they were being mobbed by people heckling and "creating a scene", yet no one managed to snap a picture or video of this hooliganism.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of this public heckling and shaming. You know that there's going to be some idiot that takes things too far, and it doesn't really accomplish anything anyways. It gets each side to dig their heels in further, which isn't particularly useful to anyone.
We are are the last of the legion.
The last of the bastion.
We are the best of the bastards.
And slaves to none.
- "Row Row", Zeal & Ardor

User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 36116
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by hepcat » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:28 pm

As someone who earlier said he wasn’t fond of the public houndings, I also have to point out that the source Rip quoted is a cesspool of homophobic, bigoted crap. I’ll wait for someone else to report on it before I start believing it.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

User avatar
Rip
Posts: 26849
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Cajun Country!
Contact:
Rip’s avatar
Away

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Rip » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:38 pm

Doesn't address the issue of Sanders in-laws getting followed to another restaurant but a good article.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p ... story.html
Pelosi urged caution Monday about expanding the protests against Trump Cabinet members beyond official events. Linking to an article about Waters’ comments, Pelosi took to Twitter to urge civility.

“Trump’s daily lack of civility has provoked responses that are predictable but unacceptable. As we go forward, we must conduct elections in a way that achieves unity from sea to shining sea," she said.

Other high-profile Democrats, like former Obama campaign strategist David Axelrod, called it counter-productive.

“Disgusted with this admin’s policies? Organize, donate, volunteer, VOTE! Rousting Cabinet members from restaurants is an empty and, ultimately, counter-productive gesture that won’t change a thing,” he said in a tweet.

Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer of New York went even further on the Senate floor Monday, saying that copying the president’s abusive tactics isn’t the answer.

"No one should call for the harassment of political opponents. That's not right. That's not American," he said. “The president's tactics and behavior should never be emulated. It should be repudiated by organized, well informed and passionate advocacy."

The recent confrontations marked an escalation of ongoing progressive political protests. For months activists have protested outside the home offices of members of Congress, with some voyaging to their homes as well. They’ve marched in cities across the country, flooded Capitol Hill with phone calls and emails.

"Some folks feel that this [escalation] is justified because the normal routes of protest don't seem to have an effect on this administration,” Menlo College political science professor Melissa Michelson said.

But Michelson said there’s always the chance that undecided voters might be turned off by such aggressive tactics, or that Republicans will be inspired to vote to counteract it.

“If you are a Republican or you are a supporter of the Trump administration, and you see your team being attacked, then you want to come out and defend them,” she said.

But national Democratic strategist Tom Bonier said few voters are likely to be swayed by whether a Cabinet official gets to finish a meal or not. “These incidents may drive chatter inside the Beltway and with voters who are already dug in, but their impact on the broader electorate is nominal, if not nonexistent,” Bonier said.

Democratic leaders now must find a way to avoid extinguishing the passionate progressive backlash against Trump that they will need in the next election, without allowing the outrage to divide or define the entire party. That was the lesson of the GOP tea party wave, when conservative protesters filled town halls to oppose passage of the 2010 Affordable Care Act. Eventually Republican leaders lost control of the movement, partly clearing a path for Trump’s populist takeover of the party.

User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 36996
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:28 am

Pr0ner's original post on this covered things pretty well. Not sure which thread that's in.

My first thought was:

a) Owner's choice. If you need the differences explained between booting entire categories of people based on inherent qualities versus "I don't like that person" then go elsewhere.
b) Customer's choice. She has the right to let her feelings on the matter be known.
c) Whoops, not so fast, b). Ethical violation of doing b) while a representative of the the government is not ok, whether you work at the dmv or as the WH spokesperson. This is a problem.
d) Do it on her own time on her own twitter account. She does not get to tell the country as the official mouthpiece of the WH not to eat at a restaurant based on personal feelings. She can however do it as a private citizen.

Anything after that is just escalating partisan warfare, and screw those people.

User avatar
tjg_marantz
Posts: 14447
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:54 pm
Location: Queen City, SK

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by tjg_marantz » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:44 am

Huckabee? LoL!
Huckabee...

LoL
Home of the Akimbo AWPs

malchior
Posts: 7900
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:56 am

msteelers wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pm
malchior wrote:I don't usually get cranky about WaPo but their editorial about Sanders getting...
I’m not sure that a post about an editorial belongs in the journalism thread.
I don't know - I consider the OpEd page to be an important part of the '4th Estates' power. The News and OpEd sides sometimes need to work in tandem. One story for the facts and another for some analysis to put their thumb on the scale when needed.

User avatar
msteelers
Posts: 5860
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Contact:

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by msteelers » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:37 am

malchior wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:56 am
msteelers wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pm
malchior wrote:I don't usually get cranky about WaPo but their editorial about Sanders getting...
I’m not sure that a post about an editorial belongs in the journalism thread.
I don't know - I consider the OpEd page to be an important part of the '4th Estates' power. The News and OpEd sides sometimes need to work in tandem. One story for the facts and another for some analysis to put their thumb on the scale when needed.
So you're a big fan of Fox News then? Because that's exactly what they do. They blend the news and editorial departments in order to put their thumb on the scale.

An editorial team has (should have, anyway) nothing to do with the news team. They are different writers. They have different guidelines. They have different goals. They are different.

malchior
Posts: 7900
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:04 am

msteelers wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:37 am
malchior wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:56 am
msteelers wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pm
malchior wrote:I don't usually get cranky about WaPo but their editorial about Sanders getting...
I’m not sure that a post about an editorial belongs in the journalism thread.
I don't know - I consider the OpEd page to be an important part of the '4th Estates' power. The News and OpEd sides sometimes need to work in tandem. One story for the facts and another for some analysis to put their thumb on the scale when needed.
So you're a big fan of Fox News then? Because that's exactly what they do. They blend the news and editorial departments in order to put their thumb on the scale.
What's with the strawman here? Fox is an extreme version of this. I literally said 'sometimes'. Not all the time. It can be useful for controversial topics. And further Fox News isn't a good example because the news side is mostly factual and the OpEd side is completely off the rails.
An editorial team has (should have, anyway) nothing to do with the news team. They are different writers. They have different guidelines. They have different goals. They are different.
Again you are arguing something I never said. I'm not saying they are the same people. I am saying stories can be paired up by the management to provide context when they feel it is needed due to the weight of the topic.

malchior
Posts: 7900
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:04 am

msteelers wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:37 am
malchior wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:56 am
msteelers wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pm
malchior wrote:I don't usually get cranky about WaPo but their editorial about Sanders getting...
I’m not sure that a post about an editorial belongs in the journalism thread.
I don't know - I consider the OpEd page to be an important part of the '4th Estates' power. The News and OpEd sides sometimes need to work in tandem. One story for the facts and another for some analysis to put their thumb on the scale when needed.
So you're a big fan of Fox News then? Because that's exactly what they do. They blend the news and editorial departments in order to put their thumb on the scale.
What's with the strawman here? Fox is an extreme version of this. I literally said 'sometimes'. Not all the time. It can be useful for controversial topics. And further Fox News isn't a good example because the news side is mostly factual and the OpEd side is completely off the rails.
An editorial team has (should have, anyway) nothing to do with the news team. They are different writers. They have different guidelines. They have different goals. They are different.
Again you are arguing something I never said. I'm not saying they are the same people. I am saying stories can be paired up by the management to provide context when they feel it is needed due to the weight of the topic.

Post Reply