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The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:04 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:58 pm
Is that the same Jerome Corsi that used to be on Coast to Coast AM all the time? What the hell, he's crazy.
Crazy people have even less filters than sane people, and having no filters around police results in hilarity.

Let's watch... :pop:

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Carpet_pissr » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:11 pm

Concerning the Murdoch/Mr. Turtle meeting, it's possible that Mr. Turtle has been completely replaced by a bot, and this was a tweaking of the programming.

See: Presser given by Mr. Turtle post-midterms. COMPLETELY different dude. Same "please punch me in my stupid face" face, though, sadly.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:03 pm

Cowards. I'm hoping Chernow uses it as an opportunity to roast them rhetorically.


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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Grifman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:41 pm

malchior wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:03 pm
Cowards. I'm hoping Chernow uses it as an opportunity to roast them rhetorically.

Why are they cowards? Frankly, the comedian last year went overboard a couple of times, and was used by the Trumpists to play the victim card and further demonize the media. It played directly into their hands. This is a much wiser decision IMO. It's a smart move - it takes the victim card off the table (look the media hates Trump!) and puts a very different card into play, the "scholar" card, which is much harder for the Trumpists to deal with.
Last edited by Grifman on Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Grifman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:44 pm

Ignore, for some reason it says I can't delete posts in this forum.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:23 pm

Grifman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:41 pm
Why are they cowards? Frankly, the comedian last year went overboard a couple of times, and was used by the Trumpists to play the victim card and further demonize the media. It played directly into their hands.
I disagree about the overboard. I think the reaction to her had a lot of misogyny in the mix. And moreover why does the right keep getting to dictate the field? They demonize someone, fence off discussion, and then everyone soft toes around it. That is part of why we are where we are. No one takes a stand. They should have defended her. Instead, they apologized. They were wimps then and are kowtowing now. That is why I think they are cowards.
This is a much wiser decision IMO. It's a smart move - it takes the victim card off the table (look the media hates Trump!) and puts a very different card into play, the "scholar" card, which is much harder for the Trumpists to deal with.
I would have agreed with you 2 years ago but Trump plays a different game. They need to stop reacting to his tweets, the GOP's hypocritical complaints in general, and stick to their guns.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Carpet_pissr » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:28 pm

Grifman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:41 pm
puts a very different card into play, the "scholar" card, which is much harder for the Trumpists to deal with.
What's a "scholar?" Ohhhh, you mean ELITIST GLOBALIST. Got it. No, they never go after that type. :P

Easy peasy. What else you got? Hit me with anything you think might be difficult for Trump and/or his supporters to deal with, and I bet I can come up with the counter-"argument" in 10 seconds. :D

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LordMortis » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:33 pm

Grifman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:41 pm
Why are they cowards? Frankly, the comedian last year went overboard a couple of times, and was used by the Trumpists to play the victim card and further demonize the media. It played directly into their hands. This is a much wiser decision IMO. It's a smart move - it takes the victim card off the table (look the media hates Trump!) and puts a very different card into play, the "scholar" card, which is much harder for the Trumpists to deal with.
I won't judge WHCA decisions as I don't much pay attention. If it were me, I wouldn't care about the Trump or his apologists. They cry wolf at every thing, find slights when there aren't any, pick fights out of thin air, and have turned gaslighting from an obscure concept to a dinner conversation topic. This is to say nothing about what they actually do to invite criticisms where they more often than not are not victims of anything. They flipped the table a long time ago, I would see no reason to invite them back to it. But that's me.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:41 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:28 pm
What's a "scholar?" Ohhhh, you mean ELITIST GLOBALIST. Got it. No, they never go after that type. :P
You mean an "Ivory Tower Academic"?

Or did you mean "little Adam Schitt"?

It's not about what they are, it's about denigrating and belittling so what they say doesn't matter. If you can make them the enemy of your supporters, so much the better.

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The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Zarathud » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:22 pm

WHCA is being chickenshit. Going out of their way to avoid further annoying Trump is chickenshit.

Michelle Wolf was just a plainspoken woman of the people engaging in locker room banter. If the privileged elites can't handle it, they should toughen up and stop being such snowflakes. What she said was nothing compared to the New York Frairs Club roasts or the Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts. Reagan even had Don Rickles at his Second Inauguration in 1985.

But, then again, Trump is no Reagan.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:19 pm

The Hill
The White House is dropping its effort to strip CNN reporter Jim Acosta of his press credentials, a defeat for President Trump in his campaign against the news media.

The reversal comes after the White House notified Acosta last Friday it may renew its attempts to revoke his press pass after a judge's order restoring it expired. The White House set a Sunday deadline for Acosta to object and said it would make a final decision by 3 p.m. on Monday.

"Having received a formal reply from your counsel to our letter of November 16, we have made a final determination in this process: your hard pass is restored," the White House said in a new letter to Acosta.

The letter also outlined new rules for reporters at presidential news conferences, including limiting each journalist to one question with follow-ups coming "at the discretion of the president or other White House officials taking questions."
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:49 pm

1 question, that he never answers anyway, and no ability to follow up without getting your access revoked.

Sounds like free press to me.

With that said, asking hard questions and ignoring protocol is pretty much the definition of hard hitting journalism. I'd be very much surprised to hear a court side with the WH if they try to use the "only one question" rule against anyone.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Holman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:55 pm

It's not truly a free press issue, at least not in the 1st amendment sense. Not allowing a second question doesn't prevent anyone from publishing anything. There's really no Constitutional imperative for the administration to take any questions whatsoever.

Instead, it's a violation of norms and traditions, and it's an outright rejection of the transparency that we like to believe is at least a possibility in American government. But I think we've been there since Sean Spicer took the podium in January 2017.

I don't believe a court can compel the WH to take multiple questions any more than they can compel Sarah Sanders to stop lying.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:17 pm

Holman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:55 pm
It's not truly a free press issue, at least not in the 1st amendment sense. Not allowing a second question doesn't prevent anyone from publishing anything. There's really no Constitutional imperative for the administration to take any questions whatsoever.
The press can just stop going. Trump's ego would have a hissy fit.

It's not like there is ever anything of substance to come out of those briefings. Clickbait, sure, but nothing of real value. Unfortunately the media is all about the clickbait.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Carpet_pissr » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:38 pm

I think Trump would love that. No hard questions, no “meanies”, no accountability in front of a mic.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:50 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:38 pm
I think Trump would love that. No hard questions, no “meanies”, no accountability in front of a mic.
no TV time either. He would hate it.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:46 pm

Holman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:55 pm
It's not truly a free press issue, at least not in the 1st amendment sense. Not allowing a second question doesn't prevent anyone from publishing anything. There's really no Constitutional imperative for the administration to take any questions whatsoever.
Perhaps, but if that were true the court wouldn't have given Acosta his press pass back.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:47 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:50 pm
no TV time either. He would hate it.
He is constantly on Fox. He doesn't need the WH press corps to get what his ego needs.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:52 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:47 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:50 pm
no TV time either. He would hate it.
He is constantly on Fox. He doesn't need the WH press corps to get what his ego needs.
You're underestimating his ego. If most of the networks aren't clamoring to asking him questions, he'll get pouty. The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

Though I suppose FOX could send in 30 interns to pose as reporters and he wouldn't notice.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Kraken » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:41 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:46 pm
Holman wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:55 pm
It's not truly a free press issue, at least not in the 1st amendment sense. Not allowing a second question doesn't prevent anyone from publishing anything. There's really no Constitutional imperative for the administration to take any questions whatsoever.
Perhaps, but if that were true the court wouldn't have given Acosta his press pass back.
The court decided that his 5th amendment rights were violated when he was deprived of his pass without due process of law.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by ImLawBoy » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:18 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:49 pm
With that said, asking hard questions and ignoring protocol is pretty much the definition of hard hitting journalism. I'd be very much surprised to hear a court side with the WH if they try to use the "only one question" rule against anyone.
If the WH promulgated an objective rule (one question, no follow-ups or one question, one follow-up), there would be no First Amendment issue. The potential issue with the proposed rule is that follow up questions are at the discretion of the President or other official answering questions. That introduces the potential of discrimination based on viewpoint, which would almost certainly occur with Trump. He'd let complimentary media continue to ask follow-ups, while Acosta would not get any follow-ups. That would be a problem.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:57 am

ImLawBoy wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:18 am
If the WH promulgated an objective rule (one question, no follow-ups or one question, one follow-up), there would be no First Amendment issue.
I wasn't aware that the rights protected by the 1st amendment can be removed by bureaucratic procedure, but you're the lawyer.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:58 am

Kraken wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:41 am
The court decided that his 5th amendment rights were violated when he was deprived of his pass without due process of law.
But...the new rules aren't law either. They're just rules.

Apparently the government can revoke your 1st amendment rights if you're rude and don't follow their rules?

It's not that I don't understand what you guys are saying, it's that I'm confused that this is somehow ok with the courts.

Plus, showing discrimination as ILB mentions, should be relatively easy, which would land the WH back in a losing lawsuit, I would think.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Kraken » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:51 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:58 am
Kraken wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:41 am
The court decided that his 5th amendment rights were violated when he was deprived of his pass without due process of law.
But...the new rules aren't law either. They're just rules.

Apparently the government can revoke your 1st amendment rights if you're rude and don't follow their rules?

It's not that I don't understand what you guys are saying, it's that I'm confused that this is somehow ok with the courts.

Plus, showing discrimination as ILB mentions, should be relatively easy, which would land the WH back in a losing lawsuit, I would think.
As I understand it (imperfectly, to be sure), the 1st amendment question was too thorny to justify an immediate intervention, but the 5th amendment issue was simpler. Trump snatched CNN's property (press pass) without any legal justification. The 1A just prohibits the government from restraining the press. It doesn't grant reporters special access or compel anyone to answer to them. Had the WH decided to pursue it, it would have gotten into 1st amendment arguments. What 1A right did Trump violate, if any? It's not a Lasso of Truth.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:38 am

Nor are rights absolute. If I start a diatribe in the middle of a city council meeting, they're going to be within their rights to have me removed.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by ImLawBoy » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:06 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:57 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:18 am
If the WH promulgated an objective rule (one question, no follow-ups or one question, one follow-up), there would be no First Amendment issue.
I wasn't aware that the rights protected by the 1st amendment can be removed by bureaucratic procedure, but you're the lawyer.
As Isg notes, the rights are not absolute. If there were a requirement that the president had to listen to every question by every reporter, there would never be time for him to do anything else (which might not be so bad with the current administration, but I digress). The rights are often subject to a balancing test. In cases of public speech, the government's obligation is to put forward rules that do not provide viewpoint discrimination. That's why they have to let the Satanists put up a monument in a public park if they're going to let the Christians put one up. They could also, however, enact a rule that no organization may put up monuments in a public park. That might seem like they're suppressing speech, but the public interest in, say, a clear park environment can overrule the rights of groups to clutter an area with monuments.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:02 am

White House correspondence org. vows to ignore rules, ask follow up questions.

Guess we'll find out whether the press have a fundamental right to question the president or not.

Whatever the case, I hope it makes Drumpf's blood boil.

:pop:

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Holman » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:30 am

Of course it's really the Press Secretary who is going to have to enforce these rules. Trump doesn't often appear.

It's rumored that Trump is getting tired of Sarah Sanders. Testing whether she can hold the line here might be Trump's new blood sport.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Fitzy » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:28 am

Holman wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:30 am
Of course it's really the Press Secretary who is going to have to enforce these rules. Trump doesn't often appear.

It's rumored that Trump is getting tired of Sarah Sanders. Testing whether she can hold the line here might be Trump's new blood sport.
How can he possibly be getting tired of Sanders? There is no way anyone could have done a better job in defending his shit. Note I’m talking about from his perspective. She plays perfectly to his base while inciting the left, exactly what he wants. The only person who could be better would be Hannity... Oh.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:32 pm

I definitely want to see him start killing off his most loyal followers before his term ends.

There isn't a bridge he won't burn, and I'll glory when they are all on fire.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by YellowKing » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:19 pm

Sarah Manatee Sanders can't leave soon enough. I don't care by what means or method, or who approves or disapproves. I will revel in the day when I don't have to see that bug-eyed sea cow spew her venom across my television screen.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by noxiousdog » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:25 pm

YellowKing wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:19 pm
Sarah Manatee Sanders can't leave soon enough. I don't care by what means or method, or who approves or disapproves. I will revel in the day when I don't have to see that bug-eyed sea cow spew her venom across my television screen.
I thought making fun of people's appearance was off limits now.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:40 pm

What do you mean, now? Off limits for who?

In any case, sure. We should all strive to be better than the president of the united states.

The problem is you can mock people for their appearance all you want and still be a better person than the leader of the free world.

It's not like YK grabbed her by the pussy.

It's not that I disagree with you Nox, or am defending YK, it's just frustrating when your leader spends most of his day publicly mocking people for equally superficial reasons.

How is the general public supposed to know better when the president doesn't?

For the record I too want Sanders gone, and to suffer for her sins against the American people. Wormtongue isn't any less loathsome when she is repeating the king's words rather than giving them to him.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Combustible Lemur » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:33 pm

I agree we should be mocking her for her defense of locking children in cages.

Also Manatees are awesome, how dare you sully their name with that awful pile of something trying to emulate a human.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:33 pm

DUGONG!
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by noxiousdog » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:49 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:40 pm
What do you mean, now? Off limits for who?

In any case, sure. We should all strive to be better than the president of the united states.

The problem is you can mock people for their appearance all you want and still be a better person than the leader of the free world.

It's not like YK grabbed her by the pussy.

It's not that I disagree with you Nox, or am defending YK, it's just frustrating when your leader spends most of his day publicly mocking people for equally superficial reasons.

How is the general public supposed to know better when the president doesn't?

For the record I too want Sanders gone, and to suffer for her sins against the American people. Wormtongue isn't any less loathsome when she is repeating the king's words rather than giving them to him.
Huh. Whataboutism too.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:50 pm

noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:49 pm
Huh. Whataboutism too.
That's like saying tracking down the guy who shot your dad is whataboutism.

More importantly, I concluded that commenting on physical appearance is not acceptable, which is the exact opposite of whataboutism.

So double middle fingers for you Nox.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by noxiousdog » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:01 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:50 pm
noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:49 pm
Huh. Whataboutism too.
That's like saying tracking down the guy who shot your dad is whataboutism.

More importantly, I concluded that commenting on physical appearance is not acceptable, which is the exact opposite of whataboutism.

So double middle fingers for you Nox.
Where in the world did you conclude that? All I see is "but the President", "grab em by the pussy" , and "wormtoungue".

"double middle fingers for you" is certainly something I'd expect after your previous post though.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:06 pm

noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:01 pm
Where in the world did you conclude that? All I see is "but the President", "grab em by the pussy" , and "wormtoungue".

"double middle fingers for you" is certainly something I'd expect after your previous post though.
Because you ignored my agreement with you and jumped right to whataboutism anyway. It's right there in the text you quoted, feel free to re-read it.

a) wormtongue is completely appropriate and has nothing to do with appearance. Or is your issue insults in general? It was my understanding that you were taking a principled stand on criticizing women based on their appearance? Is it all criticism then? Do you understand the principle you're applying to YK?

b) Describing mitigating factors is describing mitigating factors. Having to be "the bigger man" than the president of the United States is something I never in my decades on this planet thought people would have to be, nor did I think it could be done so easily. It still has to be done, which is why I agreed with you.

c) double middle fingers because fuck you for your glib and shallow response, that's why.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by noxiousdog » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:10 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:06 pm
noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:01 pm
Where in the world did you conclude that? All I see is "but the President", "grab em by the pussy" , and "wormtoungue".

"double middle fingers for you" is certainly something I'd expect after your previous post though.
Because you ignored my agreement with you and jumped right to whataboutism anyway. It's right there in the text you quoted, feel free to re-read it.

a) wormtongue is completely appropriate and has nothing to do with appearance. Or is your issue insults in general? It was my understanding that you were taking a principled stand on criticizing women based on their appearance? Is it all criticism then? Do you understand the principle you're applying to YK?

b) Describing mitigating factors is describing mitigating factors. Having to be "the bigger man" than the president of the United States is something I never in my decades on this planet thought people would have to be, nor did I think it could be done so easily. It still has to be done, which is why I agreed with you.

c) double middle fingers because fuck you for your glib and shallow response, that's why.
I'm would be fine with Wormtongue, except it's a bad analogy. She's Baghdad Bob.

Of course I ignored the 5% of your post (that wasn't even agreement, but instead negative disagreement) when the other 95% was why it was understandable.
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